The Lulz Security hacking group that has claimed attacks on high-profile targets including the CIA and Sony in recent weeks has exclusively told the BBC's Newsnight programme that it wants to target the "higher ups" who write the rules and "bring them down a few notches".
Lulzsec has claimed a new scalp - releasing confidential material taken from the Arizona police department.
The anonymous hacking group says they've not been knocked off course, or successfully exposed, by rival hackers who claim to have named them online - apparently because they object to their agenda.
This agenda seems to have evolved. When they started out, two months ago, they said they were mainly hacking "for laughs".
In an online Q&A, Whirlpool, the spokesman for Lulzsec, who describes himself as "captain of the Lulz Boat", agreed that their goals now go beyond that: "Politically motivated ethical hacking is more fulfilling".
We weren't able to talk to Whirlpool in person, but met in cyberspace in a private online chat room. In those circumstances it's almost impossible to verify with absolute certainty who you are speaking to, but Newsnight was able to verify that this person had access to the @Lulzsec Twitter feed.
Here are some other edited highlights from the online chat, which began with a question about the Antisec movement to which Lulzsec seem recently to have aligned themselves.