Disability

Transcript: The dilemmas of Quizmas

A full transcript of The dilemmas of Quizmas as first broadcast on 20th December and presented by Beth Rose.

BETH - Hello and welcome to the annual Ouch Quizmas show with me, Beth Rose. As it's the last week of term we thought we'd go all out and have a bit of fun.

JESS - Biscuit.

BETH - This year for the quiz we're joined by esteemed BBC correspondents Gary O'Donoghue in Washington. Hi Gary.

GARY - Hi.

JESS - Biscuit.

BETH - And Frank Gardner in London.

FRANK - Hello.

JESS - Sausage.

BETH - And we've also got the fabulous Tourette's Hero AKA Jess Thom.

JESS - Beans.

BETH - Who is an artist, play worker, comedian and also happens to have Tourette's and verbal tics.

JESS - Stripagram.

BETH - Hi Jess.

JESS - Hi. I'm going to strip. I'm not going to strip.

BETH - Now, we thought we'd get round the desk today to have a bit of a fun disability quiz, so it's not too hard, it's not too taxing.

JESS - Tragic.

BETH - And we're going to start with some dilemmas. I should have introduced Niamh. Niamh is on the Ouch team, she's adjudicator, so what you say today you need to impress her basically.

JESS - Nine points please.

BETH - She's scoring.

NIAMH - I have a rather fetching looking score table that I've scribbled all over in highlighter, so I'll be keenly listening out for your responses. I'm looking for creative responses.

JESS - Creative!

NIAMH - But I want you to be honest as well. So, it's something you would hypothetically do in that situation.

BETH - Jess, we're going to start with you today.

JESS - Great. Sausage.

BETH - First of all though tell me a bit about what you've been up to this year.

JESS - Biscuit. Well, we've had a really busy year with the Tourette's Hero team. We've been touring a neuro-diverse production of the Samuel, biscuit, Beckett play called Not I. Beans! Biscuit. So, we've taken that to Liverpool and to Manchester and to Berlin. Hedgehog, cats, biscuit. Busy. And we've held some big events for children and young people, biscuit, both at the South Bank Centre as part of the Imagine festival and as part of the Grand Hall reopening at Battersea Arts Centre. So, it's been a busy year.

BETH - Sounds busy.

JESS - Sausage.

BETH - You've also done a Christmas video message which we're going to play later, and it's like a charity tape but probably not everyone's expecting.

JESS - Yes. Television's Liz Carr features. Sausage.

BETH - Well yes, I know all the big names.

JESS - Biscuit.

BETH - Your dilemma for Christmas 2018 is Christmas song season.

JESS - Christmas songs.

BETH - And what a coup: you've got an invite to Carols at Kings, which is the highlight of many people's festivities.

JESS - Biscuit.

BETH - You get there just as they're closing the doors...

JESS - Hedgehog.

BETH - Just as stewards hurry you in and indicate you can choose your own seat.

JESS - Biscuit.

BETH - …one is behind a pillar so you're not going to see anything and you're not going to choose that. The other is front row, dead centre and under the BBC's microphone broadcasting live to the nations.

JESS - Hedgehog, biscuit.

BETH - Your tics are on fire today and you can't just saying Friday's kissing Saturday under the mistletoe repeatedly, which is one of your tics.

JESS - Sausage, mistletoe.

BETH - So, where do you sit?

JESS - Biscuit. Well, I would probably be unlikely to be in that situation because I am really careful about going to live events and live performance. I love theatre and comedy and songs and concerts but I definitely make sure I do a lot of preparation in advance. Biscuit. My confidence is precious and I wouldn't want to be in a situation that ended up feeling awkward or upsetting. Biscuit. If I was in that situation then yeah, maybe as it's a musical event I wouldn't worry so much about the view. Beans, biscuit, sausage.

BETH - Do you worry about the theatre? Because you do your theatre, you did Not I.

JESS - Biscuit. I don't worry about it if I have prepared. So, I always request three reasonable adjustments whenever I go and see a show. Biscuit. One is that I can sit somewhere where I can go in and out without too much bother so I can manage the situation for myself. Secondly, I always ask that my tics are acknowledged in some way by whoever's on stage at the beginning, so there's some sort of announcement either by the performers or by front of house. Biscuit. And finally I also make sure that they have a plan for managing any complaints from other people that doesn't involve, biscuit, asking me to move or leave. Biscuit. So, I always ask for those reasonable adjustments.

Or I go to relaxed performances, which I'm a big fan of. Biscuit. And relaxed performances take a relaxed approach biscuit to sound, biscuit, and movement coming from the audience, and make sure there's information about what's going to happen so that people can make decisions about what sort of work they see. Sausage.

BETH - Frank or Gary do you ever have noise issues, squeaky wheelchair, disobedient guide dog?

FRANK - Not my wheelchair, but I have absolutely no control over what noise my colostomy bag makes. So, you can get a little kind of trombone solo going on there sometimes.

JESS - Sausage.

BETH - Does that stop you doing anything?

FRANK - No.

BETH - You just go for it?

FRANK - It can happen in a meeting and I'll just say, sorry guys, that's me.

BETH - And what about you Gary, do you have a guide dog?

GARY - I don't have a dog, no.

JESS - Woof. Baa.

GARY - So, I think probably the only kind of noise that I make that may sort of impinge on others is my talking phone. I'm constantly, like the rest of us, tapping on my phone. And because I have the voice over thing switched on it's talking back to me, and that sometimes happens in the middle of unpredictable circumstances.

BETH - And double speed as well so no one can quite decipher what you're saying.

GARY - Yeah, well that's the good thing they really can't hear what you're saying.

BETH - Frank it's you.

FRANK - Go on then.

BETH - It's Christmas Eve and you are going to the Bahamas with your family.

GARY - Yayhay!

BETH - Just for the whole holidays.

FRANK - Keep quiet, Gary. ((Laughter))

BETH - You've missed your flight. Technically it is your own fault: you left your passport at home and had to rush back for it and said you'd be back in time for the flight. But there were hold-ups on the North Circular and sadly you didn't get there in time, leaving your family to jet off without you. You don't want to upset them all at Christmas so you resolve to get the next plane. When you finally reach the check-in do you: take a deep breath and prepare to pay a fortune for another ticket? Or do you attempt to play the disability card by muttering something like, the taxi parked too far away or the airport was inaccessible?

GARY - You've hit a raw nerve with airports.

JESS - Yeah. ((Laughter))

FRANK - Exactly, you could get in trouble there. I'd like to think it would be none of those. I'd like to think that I'd be smart enough when I missed the flight to call them before the flight took off, because there's a major difference I discovered. We had a puncture in October on the way to Kuala Lumper airport and my instinct was to call the airline and say, we're going to miss it. But we were told no, don't worry, just get there and then go to the desk. By the time we got there the flight had taken off and the airline, British Airways, said sorry, can't reimburse you. If you'd called us beforehand a big difference. You've got a better chance of being able to renegotiate your flight and get a later flight if you call in advance.

BETH - You historically haven't had a great time, well I say you haven't had a great time with travel because obviously you tweet a lot.

FRANK - I have a great time with travel. I love travelling. It's British airports I don't like!

BETH - But you do travel a lot.

GARY - ((0:06:16?))

BETH - So, the incidences we see are they hopefully few and far between or is it kind of…?

FRANK - It's got much better, especially Heathrow. Absolutely hats off to Heathrow since I threw my toys out of the cot in February when they kept me waiting over 100 minutes from a flight back from Addis Ababa. And to their great credit their chief exec, John Holland-Kaye spent an hour with me the next day and said, right what do we need to do to improve. And I went through the list with him, and there is a real momentum now. It's not perfect, almost every day I see tales of woe on Twitter from people who have been treated like third class citizens, it's going to take a long time to get this right, but it's definitely moving in the right direction.

I go a lot to the Middle East and I never have problems in places like Dubai, Bahrain, Riyadh even; it's as smooth as anything. It's only when I come back here to this country that these pop up at British airports. But Heathrow has done great things.

JESS - Hedgehog, biscuit.

BETH - Do you think that's in part because they know who you are now right across the board?

FRANK - Yeah, they've got me down as a troublemaker for sure.

BETH - Black mark.

FRANK - Yeah. I get off the plane and there's a lot of people kind of oozing and scraping and bowing, terribly embarrassing.

GARY - Oh, just life as usual, Frank.

FRANK - No, I'm saying I do not want any better treatment than anybody else in a wheelchair. I should be the kind of minimum standard that everybody has. Just because I cause trouble and have got a few Twitter followers it doesn't mean to say that I should get any…all I'm doing is highlighting it for everybody.

GARY - I think the airline industry has been behind many other service providers for years.

FRANK - Yeah.

GARY - It's not on the same scale, but as a blind person travelling there are regular issues of a lack of understanding. In my case they often produce a wheelchair when I don't need one; which is kind of the opposite problem. And I think there's been an attitude which is basically disabled people are a bits of baggage to be moved around, and the least interaction they do with you as possible is what they prefer. And they just haven't quite got to the point of thinking, actually here's a customer.

FRANK - Yeah. And it's crazy because the amount of people who don't fly who would fly, they want to fly, but they don't because they read all these experiences that people have had. So, airlines and airports are missing out on - I don't know what the colour of the pound is; is there a disabled pound colour?

JESS - Purple.

BETH - Purple.

FRANK - Oh right. Who was that guy who was on…? Of course it's purple. So, they're missing out massively on the purple pound there, quite unnecessarily.

JESS - Biscuit.

FRANK - I also think there's this horrible invalidisation of disabled people, of treating you like a sort of lump of useless meat or whatever.

GARY - Yeah.

FRANK - I hate that. It's so insulting.

JESS - Biscuit, hedgehog, biscuit. I think that recent moves in the last few months to talk about a charter for air travel for disabled people seem really positive. It's not just at airports, there's also loads of inequality certainly in the air. And certainly as someone who is a wheelchair user who needs to use an aisle chair, for example to get to the toilet during a flight - biscuit - there's loads of assumptions about the fact that you won't need that on a short haul flight. Biscuit. Or it's very, very normative. I'm really excited by the introduction of a sensory room at Gatwick airport; that feels like a really amazing move to recognise neuro-diversity, biscuit, and the experiences beyond just wheelchair users in terms of disabled people in airports.

GARY - Getting to and from your plane is one thing. To what extent can we expect to get help to use the other things at the airport? And I don't just mean going to the loo and stuff, but to what extent can we use their time and should we be able to expect to use their time to go shopping or to go and find a restaurant or to do those sorts of things? How many demands can we make?

BETH - You should be able to because it's part of the whole user experience.

FRANK - There is. At Heathrow now they have a hub for this. I don't use it myself because I want to be able to shop with my friends and I'm lucky enough to be able to do it without help. But if you do want help I'm pretty sure that there is a hub there now where there are a sort of team of helpers who can, I presume they're allowed to detach themselves and go off with you. I think it probably helps if you book in advance. But they are very keen to help; there really is a complete mind change.

JESS - Hedgehog, biscuit, sausage.

FRANK - David Blunkett is very much involved with them in trying to get them to move forward with their way of thinking.

JESS - Biscuit.

BETH - Gary, are you ready for yours?

GARY - Yes.

BETH - It gets a bit tricky when you come up with these dilemmas. It gets a bit silly, I don't know, so bear with me.

JESS - Silly.

GARY - We can do silly.

BETH - It's the night before Christmas and all through the house not a creature is stirring, not even a mouse, except kind elderly but forthright cousin-in-law has just dashed into the billiard rooms to inform you there's a rabbit on the loose in the kitchen.

GARY - I have a billiard room, do I?

BETH - You do yeah. You're hosting the whole family for the holidays in your Washington ranch.

JESS - Hedgehog.

BETH - So, you call the rabbit exterminators.

JESS - Rabbit.

BETH - Which are so rare they're driving from the next state and are extremely expensive to boot.

JESS - Biscuit.

BETH - You book them. They tell you they're on their way to your palatial pad, having left their own families in the middle of celebrations. Sometime later the youngest Donoghue confesses it was actually a very lifelike Robo Rabbit toy that had been left on the floor. What do you do: stay quiet, save face? Or call the exterminators and tell them you've made a big mistake?

GARY - Well, if they're expensive I'd want to cancel them before they arrive because presumably I'd get some money back, do I?

BETH - Well, probably not all of it I wouldn't have thought at Christmas.

JESS - Biscuit.

GARY - Okay, well I will do that anyway, see if I can. Secondly, obviously I will lock the offending child in the east wing for the duration of Christmas with bread and water only.

JESS - Robotic rabbit.

GARY - That's the best thing to do, right?

JESS - Rabbit robot.

BETH - That sounds appropriate I guess.

GARY - And after that I'll open another bottle of claret.

BETH - And relax.

GARY - Yeah.

BETH - Do you ever get incidents, not like rabbits in the kitchen, but difficult situations because you haven't been able to check something yourself?

GARY - I mean, I talk to inanimate objects the whole time.

JESS - Beans. Me too.

FRANK - That's no way to refer to your producer. ((Laughter)) I'm telling.

JESS - Lamppost, I love you lamppost.

GARY - You brush against something and say, sorry, sorry. If I was watching that that would make me laugh.

JESS - Sausage. ((Laughter))

GARY - So, that must come across as pretty interesting at times.

JESS - Hedgehog, biscuit, I also talk to inanimate objects all the time, particularly the lamppost that I can see from my bedroom window. My tics love building relationships with street furniture. Beans, lamppost.

BETH - Is it an ongoing relationship?

JESS - It's an ongoing relationship where I abuse, goad the lamppost.

NIAMH - How long has that been going on for now?

JESS - About eight years. Lampposts live off the state. Biscuit.

BETH - No friendship, have you not built up a friendship?

JESS - Well, I do occasionally. When it gets cold I start inviting it into bed.

GARY - At least it doesn't answer back.

JESS - Exactly yeah, yeah. It's very compliant. Beans. I have a genuine concern though about the council removing it. If it wasn't the fact, my reassurance that local authority budgets are so strapped that they're not going to worry about my lamppost. ((Laughter))

GARY - It's pretty low on their agenda I would imagine.

NIAMH - Would you miss it?

JESS - Biscuit. Yeah, I have genuinely at points wondered what I would do in that situation and whether I can have it, get some sort of blue plaque or…

BETH - Adopt a lamppost maybe? Put it in the garden?

JESS - Biscuit. Yeah, do a crowd-funder just in case. Hedgehog.

BETH - Hey Niamh, how are they doing then? They've all been quite sensible.

NIAMH - Yes, they have, this is the thing.

GARY - I'm drinking already, don't forget.

NIAMH - I did quite like Gary's response.

JESS - Cat.

NIAMH - I think that seemed pretty feasible.

GARY - What the drinking bit?

NIAMH - And at least you got a drink at the end.

JESS - Drink. Sausage.

BETH - We have a fourth topic. What I should say, because we've got Frank in the studio, but he's actually right in the middle of a shift, a proper news shift. So, he's going to have to go in a minute.

JESS - Shift.

GARY - You can't duck out, Gardner, when you're losing.

FRANK - That's precisely why I am ducking out. I was going to stay for an hour. ((Laughter))

BETH - You know what, Frank, I spent £12 on your hardback book to get you in the studio and now…

FRANK - You've got me in the studio.

BETH - Yeah, but you're going to have to sign it before you go.

FRANK - I will.

BETH - I have to say I bought it from a lovely independent book shop in West London and as I was purchasing it she gave me a whole monologue about your life and what you'd been doing and who you were.

FRANK - Oh wow.

GARY - Oh that's so sweet.

BETH - Yeah, it wasn't just however much it was.

FRANK- I have lots of stalkers.

JESS - Stalkers.

BETH - She seemed a nice one. Yeah, before you go you've got to sign it. Maybe something like: dear Beth, one of the most interesting exceptional journalists I've ever met.

FRANK - Star of my life, that kind of thing.

BETH - Something like that.

JESS - Sausage.

BETH - Okay so this fourth dilemma, you can all just pounce in.

JESS - Pounce. Biscuit.

BETH - It's the work Christmas party and after a fair amount of liquid, alcohol or otherwise, has been drunk you need the loo fast.

JESS - Biscuit. Piss on the photocopier!

BETH - The problem is just seen your colleagues Luke and Elise in the accessible bathroom looking more than a bit frisky. Oh my god, it's literally like the most unlikely colleague coupling every. It's an office scandal. What do you do to get into the bathroom, and can you possibly keep this amazing gossip to yourself?

JESS - No, I can't. Biscuit. I can't keep secrets at all. One of the things about Tourette's is saying the worse thing in any given situation, but it means that I spy Christmas, I tell people what I've got them straightaway. So, I'm not very good at keeping gossip secret. I announced my sister's pregnancy to 300 people live on stage in Brisbane, biscuit, when she hadn't even told my mum. And I made the audience keep quiet and promise not to say anything.

FRANK - That's an achievement.

JESS - It means that people who know me really well know that if they ask the right question then I will just give answers. So, yeah, it's sometimes quite frustrating. Sausage.

FRANK - I have to say though in all the years I've been here I would love it if somebody came out of the loo after having a bit of how's your father. But it's not. It's always some able-bodied person who could perfectly well pee in the next door thing.

JESS - Sneaky poo.

FRANK - I just wish they'd use it for something a bit more interesting. ((Laughter))

JESS - Biscuit. Obviously not all impairments are visible. Biscuit. However I do have a strong suspicion that it is often used as the sneaky poo chamber by people who want somewhere more private to do a poo.

GARY - I often get directed to the accessible loo, and in a sense I shouldn't be using it because I can…

JESS - Sausage.

GARY - The problem I find with disabled loos, accessible loos is that as a blind person they're so big that you can never find the flipping bowl, so I end up wandering around in there looking for the thing.

FRANK - No Gary, that was the sink!

GARY - Well, yes, there is that. ((Laughter))

JESS - Biscuit. Gary, I've noticed recently that there are some audio describe buttons on some accessible toilets that seem to have some feature where you can use technology or your phone.

GARY - I guess.

JESS - Have you encountered that and does it work? Biscuit.

GARY - I haven't. Although I really don't want to…I love my phone and apps, but an app to go to the loo I'm not sure whether that's a step too far.

JESS - Biscuit.

GARY - And of course the problem with these things is that, it's like braille signage, it's fine if you know where it is. And if you know where it is you probably don't need it.

JESS - Biscuit.

GARY - But when I go to a hotel for example when I'm travelling you'll see me when I first go to my hotel room running my hands all over the door and the walls next to it trying to find if there's a raised number that I'll be able to locate it again by when I come back to my room.

JESS - Hedgehog.

GARY - So, I do do a bit of that. But I do spend my time wandering around disabled loos trying to find the actual thing. If there was a couple in there doing their thing well, I think the polite thing would be to say if you could just aside and carry on as you. As you are. ((Laughter))

NIAMH - As you were.

BETH - Wow okay, interesting responses again. Niamh, how are we doing?

NIAMH - Okay, I'm going to have think about this one.

JESS - I love cats.

BETH - You may have heard there was a little click there; Frank has slipped out of the room, he's gone. But he did sign my book, I'm sure he'll be thrilled to say, it doesn't say to the amazing journalist but he says: thanks for letting me join in your brilliant Ouch quiz.

JESS - Biscuit, Ouch.

NIAMH - There you go. Gary, you were just going to sidle on past the couple, right?

GARY - Yeah, I think why spoil their fun.

NIAMH - I think that's a…

GARY - I'll be done pretty quick so.

NIAMH - Okay, so Frank's response was just to wait, right? And Jess…

JESS - Blurt it out.

NIAMH - Blurt it out.

JESS - Beans.

GARY - I like that.

NIAMH - You see, I would like to see that.

JESS - Sausage.

BETH - Especially if it was that great gossip where it was the two most unexpected people.

JESS - Yeah, biscuit, biscuit. Katie Hopkins and a nun called Steve, biscuit.

NIAMH - I'm going to go with Jess's response.

JESS - Yes!

NIAMH - So, Jess gets that point.

BETH - Yeah okay.

NIAMH - So, we've got one for Jess, one for Gary.

BETH - Okay. So, Frank's a non-starter really anyway.

NIAMH - No, on zero.

JESS - Nine for David Blane.

BETH - I was surprised to learn that he doesn't mind being called Frankie as well.

JESS - Frankie.

NIAMH - I find that hilarious.

BETH - We didn't have the microphones on at that point, because I always refer to him as Frankie, and I thought he would hate it. So, there's a good bit of gossip.

GARY - You learn something.

JESS - Yeah, biscuit Frankie.

NIAMH - We were saying, don't call him Frankie.

BETH - Knew it was going to come out, yeah. It must have been another quiet year in low-key America.

GARY - Oh nothing happens here, as you know. Yeah, it's been another day at the office this year. It's kept us incredibly, incredibly busy. I'm as tired as I've ever been in my life. And it's going to carry on for another two years at least until the next election.

BETH - Wow. When you're watching or listening to the BBC stuff, so take Laura Kuenssberg she bumped into me literally in the coffee shop the other morning at about half seven, and then I was at home for hours and she was doing the ten o'clock news. Is it like that, is it just continual?

GARY - Laura, she must be the tiredest because she really has to put in extraordinary amounts of time and effort over sustained period of time. Yeah, it can be. Particularly when we're deployed on a big story. Sadly in this country pretty regularly I get sent off to do another mass shooting or other.

BETH - And when you are at the White House, in the kind of pack of journalists that are there, has Donald ever referred to?

GARY - No, wouldn't know who I am.

BETH - Oh, I was hoping you might say he did.

GARY - The foreign press here we are referred to as no-votes TV.

BETH - You're not high on his Christmas card list then?

GARY - So, we're not high on their agenda.

BETH - What's it like in America this time of year?

JESS - Biscuit.

BETH - Because we obviously get a lot of it looking at films and TV.

JESS - Films.

BETH - And it looks lovely and very, very Christmassy. Have you had any glitzy parties?

GARY - Yeah, there's been one or two.

JESS - Hedgehog.

GARY - There's a lot of correctness around here so you don't refer to Christmas really; you talk about the holidays.

JESS - Holidays.

GARY - Happy holidays and all that kind of thing.

JESS - Happy bin day.

GARY - But the news editor here did a marvellous thing the other day: she made mince pies.

JESS - Mince!

GARY - So, I had a mince pie. It was delicious.

JESS - That's very festive.

BETH - Okay, on to round two.

NIAMH - Oh yeah.

BETH - Round two is called complete the tweet.

JESS - Complete.

BETH - Which is basically a rip-off of that missing words round on Have I Got News For You.

JESS - Hedgehog, biscuit.

BETH - But to add a touch of jeopardy we have taken the tweets from your own personal Twitter accounts.

GARY - Oh god.

BETH - So, obviously you're not allowed to fill in your own blanks on your tweets obviously.

JESS - Biscuit, hedgehog, complete the tweet.

BETH - First off, before we read this one Jess, and you did mention it before went on air, so each day you tweet out the most imaginative tics you've heard yourself saying that day.

JESS - Biscuit, yes, daily outburst for nine months of the year, and festive outbursts for December. Sausage, biscuit.

BETH - When you were going to the fictional Carols at Kings event.

JESS - Kings.

BETH - That your tick that day was Friday's kissing Saturday under the mistletoe, which is a real tick that you had and was one of your festive outbursts.

JESS - Yes, festive.

BETH - Okay so here goes.

GARY - It's a really nice image actually.

JESS - Biscuit. Sometimes they can be really visual and complicated, sausages, and surprising. ((Laughter))

BETH - This one's pretty good, Gary.

JESS - Squiggle.

BETH - So, Tourette's Hero, which is your Twitter handle: today's real hashtag Tourette's…

JESS - I love cats.

BETH - Father Christmas ate your - blank - hashtag, festive outburst.

JESS - Squiggle.

BETH - Any idea Gary?

JESS - Alan, David Blane, pitta bread, cats.

GARY - I'm wondering if they're in that list you've just given me.

JESS - Sausage, biscuit, I can't remember so I'm not even going to be able to blurt it out and help you.

GARY - I'm going to go with reindeer.

JESS - You know what, that's not too far off. Niamh, do you know what it is? You know what it is, don't you, okay.

NIAMH - Yeah, I know what it is.

JESS - Goldfish.

JESS - Goldfish.

GARY - Oh okay.

BETH - Very visual.

GARY - I had a goldfish when I was a child and it jumped out of its bowl in the night, and my mother came down in the morning and found it and put it back in. And do you know what she did to try and make it recover: she put brandy in the bowl. Killed it stone dead. ((Laughter))

JESS - Biscuit.

GARY - Stone dead!

BETH - I thought you were going to say revived it a little bit.

GARY - No, killed it. Straight to the top, not surprisingly.

JESS - I remember ages ago hearing, biscuit, a story about someone who's got a dead goldfish and they put it in an old butter thing, and then the child came and opened the butter thing, but the goldfish was flapping about and had been revived by the moisture in the butter thing.

GARY - Oh god.

BETH - No!

JESS - I don't know whether I've totally misremembered that or whether that's an actual true thing.

GARY - Ooh, I couldn't deal with a flapping goldfish.

BETH - No.

JESS - Flapping goldfish.

BETH - Well, I suppose if that happens maybe we could try it.

NIAMH - That would be a good name for cats.

JESS - Biscuit.

BETH - In his absence we have a @frankrgardner tweet.

NIAMH - We still don't know what the R stands for.

BETH - We don't. He says or he tweeted earlier this year: if your legs don't work then your wheelchair is not just - blank blank - it's rather more than that.

JESS - Wheelbarrow.

GARY - Yes.

BETH - No, not quite.

JESS - Deckchair with wheels.

GARY - Yes.

JESS - Sit-on lawnmower.

BETH - Think more what people might use it for.

JESS - It's not a coat stand.

GARY - Clotheshorse, yes.

BETH - People's bags basically.

JESS - Yes, exactly, I totally agree.

GARY - Do people do that,

JESS - Yes.

GARY - People really do that?

JESS - Yes, all the time.

GARY - They don't! That's disgraceful!

JESS - And treat it like a chair. The other thing is people will often try and put my coat over my chair, like you would on a normal chair.

BETH - Oh, and then you move.

JESS - But obviously if you put it over your chair you can't move. So, I will always keep my coat or my clothes separate because I like to be able to move. But yeah, piling stuff on an empty chair as well often in my house I'll come in and my friends will…

BETH - Oh so your family and friends just do it?

JESS - Family and friends yeah. It's like it is just a table and I have to chuck off people's coats and bags.

NIAMH - Yeah, it takes the chucking chair to a whole new level. Everyone's got a chucking chair.

GARY - Yes.

JESS - Yes, exactly. And my wheelchair will…

NIAMH - It's more like a big fluffy armchair.

JESS - Also my friends and family, I've got some friends who really enjoy being in my chair so will jump in it if it's empty.

BETH - Just to give it a go?

JESS - Well, just because it's comfy and it's their sort of favourite place to sit.

BETH - Okay, on to you Gary. Tell me what your Twitter handle is?

GARY - It's bbcblindgazza.

BETH - Was just bbcgazza taken?

GARY - No, in fact when I joined Twitter I just had it as blindgazza, because that's what I am. Eventually the BBC said, you've got to have BBC in the title when you start the blue tick thing. And there was a little bit of pressure just to turn it back into my name with the BBC, and I said no, no, this is me.

JESS - Biscuit.

BETH - Okay, so yours isn't totally disability related. So, at bbcblindgazza tweet: pilot says we can't take off quite yet because someone has forgotten to put the - blank - back on. They are now looking for it apparently.

JESS - Wings. ((Laughter))

BETH - No, but you're not too far away.

JESS - The petrol cap.

BETH - Yes.

GARY - That's exactly right.

BETH - Where were you going? What happened?

GARY - That was very recent. I can't remember. Where was I? I can't remember where I was.

JESS - I've definitely, biscuit, been on a plane that has been leaking fuel from its wings. And then two sort of technicians have been standing underneath it with a bucket. Biscuit. And I think I hoped it would have been a bit more, biscuit, a bit more high-tech the solution.

GARY - I do remember in Iowa last year sometime in Des Moines getting on a plane, and someone I was with said to me that they'd looked left - it was quite a small plane - and they saw the pilot sitting on the flight deck with his head in his hands, which is never a good sign. But actually before we took off he said, yeah we've got a bit of a problem with the avionics at the moment so we're going to turn it off and turn it on again. ((Laughter)) So, he just turned it off and turned it on again.

JESS - Biscuit, biscuit. We ran a project for National Theatre Scotland up in Inverness earlier this year and we were on our way back and it took the train three run-ups to get out of the station because of leaves on the line and the slight incline. ((Laughter)) Biscuit. And the person who was doing the announcement just kept explaining that we needed more of a run-up.

GARY - That's totally hilarious.

JESS - I also felt like drizzle and autumn weren't going to be new issues in Inverness!

BETH - No! Did you get going eventually?

JESS - We did. The only way we got out in the end was they sent another train first, obviously I think one with a bit more power, to sort of clear the way and then we went. Sausage.

BETH - Okay, so that's the end of that round. Niamh how are the scores standing.

JESS - Sausage!

NIAMH - Jess definitely took that one.

JESS - Yeah, squiggle.

BETH - Well done.

NIAMH - We knew it was going to be something like chucking things on people's laps. Yeah, that was a really good response for the plane one so both points go to Jess for that.

BETH - Well done Jess. Okay round three is quick fire.

JESS - Biscuit. I didn't feel competitive until now. Now I feel really competitive.

BETH - Oh really? Now you're leading.

GARY - I'm scared.

JESS - I'm going to try and like be, it's only a game.

BETH - Being the underdog is quite good though because you become a bit fearless and you just go for it.

JESS - Yeah. Sausage.

BETH - Okay round three, quick fire. We have, I don't know, eight questions?

NIAMH - Yeah, something like that. I think it's eight.

BETH - From a variety of topics.

JESS - Things on biscuit.

BETH - Question one:

JESS - I love cats.

BETH - Which eminent disabled physicist sadly died this year?

GARY - Buzz.

JESS - Stephen Hawking.

BETH - Correct, Stephen Hawking.

JESS - Bald chick, biscuit.

BETH - Question two: You may have seen this on the BBC News site. Phantom what made headlines two weeks ago and was originated by BBC Ouch?

JESS - Beans.

GARY - Limbs?

BETH - Yeah, it was specific limb which you probably wouldn't expect to see on a BBC website.

JESS - Penis?

BETH - Really close.

NIAMH - Anatomically very close.

JESS - Female penis?

GARY - Vagina?

BETH - No. Both sexes share this.

JESS - Tummy button.

BETH - Bit further down.

NIAMH - This is not very quick.

BETH - Thanks for reading our stuff guys; that's really kind.

GARY - I didn't do any biology at school.

JESS - Phantom thighs?

BETH - No.

JESS - Like thunder thighs.

BETH - Phantom rectums is what it was all about.

GARY - Oh. What is that even?

BETH - It's actually an NHS phrase word - so it's all official, it's not just click bait. We did a takeover…

GARY - Because we wouldn't do that, right?

BETH - Exactly.

JESS - Sausage.

BETH - We did a takeover with three youngish people who wear stomas, so they've had a bag fitted so that you can go to the toilet. But often after you've had the procedure done your body hasn't made the connection that you don't go to the toilet like normal so you experience phantom rectum. Okay, so no points for any of you there.

Where were the 2018 winter Paralympics held? It was back in March.

GARY - Oh I know, South Korea.

BETH - Correct.

JESS - Excellent work, biscuit.

BETH - For a bonus point, in which region? Begins with a P.

GARY - Don't know.

BETH - Pyeongchang.

JESS - Biscuit I'm not sporty.

BETH - One point. Now, this might, I don't know, you two might have made the list actually, but BBC Ouch presenter Simon Minty reached number 22 in the disability power list.

JESS - Power list.

BETH - But the disabled winner of Britain's Got Talent failed to get a listing. Who was that?

JESS - Lee Ridley, Lost Voice Guy.

BETH - Correct yeah. He didn't make it.

JESS - He didn't make the list?

BETH - Well, the made the list but someone else's.

JESS - Write up.

BETH - Yeah.

JESS - I was interested in terms of the power list, it wasn't exclusively, but it was lots of disabled celebrities, like comedians, people who were really high profile from a media perspective. But obviously there are, like I'm pretty sure Tanni Grey-Thompson must have been on the list but she definitely wasn't in the top ten.

BETH - She wasn't in top ten, yeah.

JESS - So, I was interested in how power was being defined biscuit.

BETH - Which other disabled scientist was one of the nominees suggested to be on the back of the new £50 note? I don't know if this would have reached you, Gary.

GARY - No, it hasn't.

JESS - Biscuit. A £50 note. Oh hang on…

GARY - Those £50 notes don't reach much either.

JESS - …they were suggesting a load of disabled people and women.

BETH - It's not a woman.

JESS - It's not a woman?

BETH - Not a woman, no.

JESS - I actually read this but now I can't remember. I've got a very poor memory.

BETH - As soon as I say it you'll know: Alan Turing.

GARY - Oh yes.

JESS - Yeah, yeah.

BETH - So, at the time he wasn't considered to be a disabled person, but in retrospect they think he had autism.

GARY - Do they?

BETH - Yes, apparently so.

GARY - How can you tell after the fact?

BETH - I don't know actually. That's a good question.

JESS - Biscuit. I think some posthumous diagnoses are quite clear. So, Samuel Johnson who wrote the first dictionary is believed to have Tourette's. But there was quite a lot of detailed description of him moving involuntarily and him making noises and having lots of unusual behaviour. So, I sort of understand from that perspective when there's a very clear diagnostic criteria. Biscuit.

GARY - When was Tourette's first defined?

JESS - By Gilles de la Tourette in the 1800s. A French noblewoman was the first.

BETH - Quite a long time.

GARY - So, it has been around for a long time.

JESS - Yeah biscuit.

GARY - It's been known about or described for a long time.

JESS - Yeah. Beans.

BETH - Another question, time is pressing on. A Silent Child was the winner of the best short film category at this year's Oscars.

JESS - Oscars, sausage.

BETH - But what soap opera did the director and screenwriter once star in?

JESS - Hollyoaks?

BETH - Yes. As soon as I started reading that question I knew you knew the answer.

JESS - Well, I pay quite a lot of attention to the representation of disability in film. Obviously usually that's by non-disabled people. But the film that you mentioned was played by a deaf child.

BETH - Yeah.

NIAMH- Yeah, they auditioned like 100 kids to do it.

BETH - Yeah. Biscuit.

NIAMH - And then met Maisie Sly, who ended up playing the lead role, they just knew. They really wanted a profoundly deaf child to play the lead role, so they were really, really meticulous.

JESS - It's really exciting when deaf and disability culture is profiled in ways that are significant and meaningful and challenge biscuit lots of the very sort of stereotypical narratives that you see presented. Biscuit, I love cats, oh it's so tragic.

BETH - Okay, final question.

JESS - Beans.

BETH - I don't know how the scores are doing so you've got everything to play for.

JESS - Pick the bonus round.

BETH - You've got a selection box to win.

JESS - You get a tortoise?

BETH - No, it's just a chocolate selection box.

JESS - A telly tubby.

BETH - For Gary unfortunately it's for UK players only.

GARY - No!

BETH - I know.

GARY - You didn't tell me that at the start.

BETH - I know I didn't. I thought it best to keep to myself.

JESS - Can you get selection boxes in the States? Do they do that?

GARY - I don't know. You should find out.

JESS - I will.

BETH - Final question: this year saw the first appointed minister for loneliness. Who is it?

JESS - Oh, I don't know.

GARY - Do they live in Scotland somewhere on their own in a house? That's saying something.

JESS - It's not Esther McVey?

BETH - It's not no.

JESS - Biscuit. There are some really profound stats about loneliness, and the Jo Cox Trust has been doing some incredible research in that area.

BETH - Yeah.

JESS - So, I know that that is moving up people's agendas in a way that it should be, but I don't know who the minster is.

BETH - It is Tracey Crouch. I don't know if the name is familiar.

GARY - Yeah, she's a Spurs fan, I think.

BETH - Is she?

JESS - You get a point for knowing that, surely.

GARY - If it's true.

BETH - She resigned from the post as Sports Minister when the government pushed back the planned date to reduce the maximum of betting on the high streets.

GARY - Oh the betting, yeah.

BETH - Well, that is the end of the quiz.

JESS - Loneliness, that's an upbeat ending. Oh loneliness.

BETH - I know. I didn't think of that.

GARY - Yeah, people will switch that off, won't they, and go back to their empty home.

BETH - Oh there were go.

GARY - Now what?

JESS - Cry into their own dungarees. ((Laughter))

BETH - We can start a new club or something.

JESS - Chat to the lamppost, that's my solution. Oh lamppost, you're underrated as a Strictly Come Dancing champion.

GARY - And very much loved.

JESS - Loved.

BETH - Yes. Niamh, go on then, hit us with it.

NIAMH - Scores on the board.

BETH - Obviously Frank came last.

NIAMH - Yes with the grand total of zero for Frank. In second place was Gary with two points.

GARY - Oh, you told me I'd win on the phone.

NIAMH - Jess you got five points.

BETH - Well done.

NIAMH - Because you did very well in the quick fire.

JESS - Quick fire.

NIAMH - You got three. So, yeah congratulations.

BETH - Congratulations.

GARY - You get the chocolate box.

NIAMH - You are the winner of the coveted selection pack.

JESS - Finger of fudge, just for fun.

BETH - Well, Gary it's always a pleasure to speak to you.

GARY - Thank you so much guys. Thank you for everything.

BETH - And it's always glamorous when you're in Washington. Thank you very much. Have a very merry Christmas.

GARY - Merry Christmas. Bye.

JESS - Bye.

BETH - There we go, another one bites the dust. Jess it's just you - the winner.

JESS - Beans.

BETH - This can be your winner's interview!

JESS - Great. Do I have to come back and defend the title then next year?

BETH - I think you should next year, yeah.

NIAMH - I think that's what we should do.

BETH - And then we'd have a champion of champions in 2020.

NIAMH - Sounds perfect.

JESS - Sounds good.

BETH - You told us right at the start all the cool stuff you've been doing, and you also this year have created a charity advert?

JESS - It's a Christmas message. We do a festive video each year at Tourette's Hero and, biscuit, that sometimes has been an animation or it's been like me trying to do a Queen's speech. But this year we thought we'd take a slightly different approach, biscuit, and did a sort of charity themed appeal, but maybe not placing disabled people as the subject of that.

BETH - Was it easier to come up with that theme?

JESS - Yes. ((Laughter)) I think it's a time when there are lots of appeals and they are ripe for a bit of gentle mockery, I think is the right… In some ways it's a sensitive subject and sensitive line. I think obviously charities are doing amazing work and making a big impact in lots of different areas. But some of the ways particular disabled people are represented in charity ads perhaps adds to the misconceptions about what it is like to live as a disabled person and what the real disabling barriers are. Biscuit.

And I think particularly we were inspired by the statistic from Scope survey a few years ago that said that 67%, biscuit, of the British public, biscuit, felt uncomfortable talking, biscuit, to a disabled person; so, we were keen to address that statistic in a funny, festive way. Sausage.

BETH - Shall we have a listen?

VIDEO - This is Mark. Mark was born with heteronormative white male privilege; a surprisingly common condition that dramatically affects his sense of perspective and his ability to recognise his own privilege. Yes, tragically Mark was born normal. This condition has left Mark ill-equipped to talk to anyone not exactly like him.

BETH - ((Laughter)) It's very, very funny, and the music as well it's the classic sad, reflective piano.

JESS - Yeah. I think you know what it is just before anybody even says anything. So, yeah I think it played with some of those, the features of those videos, so the tone and the music and the way that they're lit. Sausage. And obviously television's Liz Carr.

BETH - Silent Witness.

JESS - Biscuit. The super celebrity Liz Carr fronted the appeal for us. Sausage.

BETH - What have other charities, what's their response been?

JESS - It is not mocking charity. It is drawing attention to a statistic that I think is a really shocking statistic in our society, in a funny creative way that hopefully means that people can engage with it and work out the ridiculousness that people feel awkward talking to people who aren't exactly like themselves. And that is a real issue, and lots of that is about us not having inclusive workplaces or inclusive education. So, I think the more difference and disability is visible the less awkward people will feel - and hopefully making funny videos is part of that. Sausage.

BETH - Is it one of those videos that you'd had in your mind for a long time or you knew you wanted to do something like that?

JESS - Biscuit, biscuit, biscuit.

BETH - It's kind of in reverse, isn't it?

JESS - I wish I could say it was but it wasn't. It was more like, what are we going to do. Because every year we try and do a video, and increasingly thinking up new ideas is getting tricky. But that actually my colleague Matthew had the vision for that video, and I think it's brilliant. Turning assumptions into conversations is what it's all about. Sausage, biscuit.

BETH - You've been doing lots of big things in the last couple of years. Have you got something for 2019 that you're working towards?

JESS - Biscuit, we are, biscuit, we're doing a lot of planning actually at the start of 2019 and so I think lots of stuff that has happened for Tourette's Hero, biscuit, has happened organically and has grown. This is the first time that we're actually going to take a few weeks out at the start of the year to really talk things through and plan. But yeah, we've definitely got big plans for 2019. I'm programming a festival of rest and resistance at Battersea Arts Centre in March, so that's definitely one big thing that's happening next year.

BETH - Can you tell us a bit about that?

JESS - Biscuit, it's going to be celebrating the work that we've been doing on helping them to become a relaxed venue, biscuit, so that's an idea of how we can embed a relaxed and inclusive approach across a whole venue, rather than just thinking about single performances. And we're going to celebrate with a festival that profiles lots of disabled artists, and have residencies and shows and a big inclusive creative party. So, we're partnering with lots of other organisations to make that happen. Sausage.

BETH - That sounds cool. So, that's March yeah?

JESS - Yes, rest and resistance at Battersea Arts Centre the first two weeks of March.

BETH - Not too long to wait. Well, have a very merry Christmas, Jess.

JESS - Thank you and you, biscuit.

BETH - Well done on becoming the Quizmas 2018 champion.

JESS - Oh my gosh, big title.

NIAMH - Round of applause.

JESS - Sausage! Biscuit.

BETH - Big accolade. Well, that is it for 2018 for Ouch. We've had quite a year: Korea, Edinburgh, had a programme on BBC2 - who thought we'd make it there.

NIAMH - I know, I didn't. ((Laughter))

BETH - Many podcasts and everything. Don't forget over Christmas you can in touch with us still. Might be a bit slow to respond but we're still here. On Twitter we are bbcouch, search BBC Ouch on Facebook. We're on Instagram, we are bbc_ouch-disability. And of course you can always email us, it's ouch@bbc.co.uk.

Of course we'll be back in 2019 with even more astonishing and insightful stories and lots and lots of podcasts.

JESS - Podcasts.

BETH - Until then have a very merry Christmas.

JESS - Beans.

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