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Refuelling the motor industry

Robert Peston | 12:44 UK time, Tuesday, 27 January 2009

What Peter Mandelson will announce this afternoon is guarantees for borrowings by manufacturers of cars and construction vehicles, as well as their suppliers.

Peter MandelsonMany of these companies were too big to qualify for the guarantees from taxpayers made available to small and medium size companies by the Business department earlier this month.

But these substantial employers are having terrible difficulty borrowing from banks and financial markets. So the taxpayer will now stand behind a portion of their debts.

These new guarantees are expected to underpin several billion pounds of fresh bank loans for the industry.

The state support is expected to be directed towards investment by the motor industry in low-carbon technologies - which may prevent the measures falling foul of a European Union prohibition on state support for particular industries.

The motor industry has been desperate for help with research and development into a new generation of "green" cars.

The funds for all this will involve some new money from the Treasury and some re-allocation for other elements of the Business department's budget.

The Business secretary is also expected to announce support for the retraining of motor-industry employees who have been made idle in recent weeks as the big carmakers have temporarily shut down production lines.

The measures are likely to be seen as a particular boon for Jaguar Land Rover, the subsidiary of India Tata Motors, which has been anxious about whether it would be able to refinance a huge loan when it falls due in June.

What will probably be announced at a later date is the use of government guarantees for the issue of bonds created out of personal loans to car-buyers - which would be a way of ending the drought of credit for those wanting to buy a motor.

UPDATE, 16:05PM: The scale of the support for the motor industry announced by Peter Mandelson this afternoon is not enormous, but is pretty green.

Comments

Page 1 of 4

  • Comment number 1.

    If you know, and are not just guessing, why/how do you know?

    Shouldn't this all be confirmed to elected representatives first?

  • Comment number 2.

    All I will say is, a viable competitive business will have profits and a positive cash flow. That's the whole point of business - to make a profit and then pay a cash dividend to shareholders.
    Cash and profits should also be kept in reserves on the balance sheet, to weather any economic slowdowns encountered along the journey.

  • Comment number 3.

    I'm not against help for ailing industries per se. After all, they are perhaps more likely to drag us out of the mire than a sudden change of heart by the banking sector. What concerns me is the use of taxpayers money to top up wages or to offset some other employer liability. So long as industry bailouts are used for the greater good (as the banking ones should have been) for things like transferable skills (general further or higher education, vocational training, etc.), I'd be satisfied that it is money usefully (rather than well) spent.

  • Comment number 4.

    The government still hasn't learnt to stop briefing journalists before telling Parliament, then.

    In any case, quite why the government thinks that subsidising a bloated and polluting industry like the motor industry is a sensible use of borrowed money is beyond me.

    Demand for cars -- which are essentially an inefficient means of diverting our wealth to OPEC countries -- is the last thing that should be stimulated at a time like this...

  • Comment number 5.

    My understanding is that car manufacture has been very profitable in the last few years. Therefore the manufacturers should have built up large cash reserves - where did the profits go?

    Also, there seems little doubt that with or without help for buyers car sales are set to fall drastically over the next few years. Surely it is right that some makers should indeed be scaling down operations or even going bust so as to ensure those that remain can be profitable.

    This initiative reeks of vote-buying to me. I am obviously concerned for those who will lose their jobs, but you cannot get through a recession by just artificially keeping people in jobs that no longer exist.

  • Comment number 6.

    slowleftarmround #1

    I am waiting for the police to search offices to find out where the leak has come from.

  • Comment number 7.

    Cos of course, Robert, the major problem underpinning the recession has been the inability of people to buy new cars.

    More debts underwritten by the tax payer
    which we cant cover. Im sorry but what next, every action this government has taken has been piecemeal and ineffective.

    If this government believes in keynesian solutions, where are the public works. where is the raising of tax allowances, where in short is the far reaching,far sighted policy this country needs.

  • Comment number 8.

    No-one wants to buy these cars, yet the government throws money at the industry to pump the unwanted machines out. What a waste of money.

  • Comment number 9.

    Dear Robert

    This is an mitigating disaster Gordon Brown States he never saw this coming, Now he states its teething truoble for a new world order,

  • Comment number 10.

    Why do we need to invest in new tecnology ,Robin Reliants fuel consumption was over 60 miles per gallon

    The RR factory could be taken out of mothballs unless of course it was sold to the Chinese as "uneconomical"

  • Comment number 11.

    Dear Robert

    This is an mitigating disaster Gordon Brown States he never saw this coming, Now he states its teething truoble for a new world order,
    Globalisation has not worked and those who were forcing it through have come a croper.
    The Banks went first, then a series of Commercial failures, then the High street, Followed by industry, now cut backs on major capital expenditure,
    "How come we the general public knew of the credit and debt mountain, by reading the Papers, and listening to political programs etc, and the Prime Minister did not

  • Comment number 12.

    '....which would be a way of ending the drought of credit for those wanting to buy a motor.'

    Of course, silly me, the whole country has been seen queuing up outside motor dealers just begging to borrow money to buy new cars. Well, any sane person would, wouldn't they? After all, most of them probably won't have a job by the end of February and we will all, then become cab drivers .

    You couldn't make this drivel up - could you?

  • Comment number 13.

    A joke - surely it must be.

    Why are we saving this industry?

    Once again the thirst for popularity is overtaking the appetite for sense.

    This is simply about 'saving jobs'.

    Lets get one thing straight - NO JOBS WILL BE SAVED FOR MORE THAN 6 MONTHS.

    If you struggled in boom times - then how are you going to fare in a recession?

    The car industry has had ample time to develop renewable energy fuelled cars - and it hasn't.
    Why? because with renewable energy you loose scarcity of the commodity, without scarcity there is no profit, without profit - the capitalist does nothing.

    So where does the bailout get us? It keeps us producing petrol based cars and ensures our reliance on Oil and of course the profits that come with it.

    ...and this is what they call the 'free market'?

    It's such a closed market it would make any Soviet squeal.

    We have reached a point in world political economy where the governments are stating that making profit is more important than the welfare of the population.

    You can let your peope die - as long as there is money to be made from it.

  • Comment number 14.

    If the economy is going to recover in a sustainable way then it has to be rebalanced. We've become far too dependent on candy floss "industries" like financial services and retailing and we need to get back to proper industries that create real wealth. And that's why we have to ensure that companies like JLR, Vauxhall, JCB and Corus get through the recession.

  • Comment number 15.

    The government seems to think the most important thing is to spend huge amounts of money on over-complex schemes of unproven efficacy.

    Has anybody added up all the money the government is spending on all these complex schemes that are supposed to save us from recession? And more to the point, has anyone calculated what the result would be if instead of all those schemes, the government just spent the money on reducing employers' NIC?

    That's something that would genuinely help all businesses. And I've never understood why, particularly in times of rising unemployment, the government thinks that creating jobs is something so evil it deserves to be taxed.

  • Comment number 16.

    Interesting to note that they weren't so forthcoming to assist in MG Rover's hour of need.

  • Comment number 17.

    #5: "where did the profits go?"

    Simple. They spent them all on sweets.

    Seriously, I think you raise a very good point. It brings us back to that old chestnut: moral hazard. If the car companies couldn't manage their finances sensibly enough to put a little aside in the good times to get them through the bad times, why should the rest of us pay to sort it out?

  • Comment number 18.

    #5 -- "My understanding is that car manufacture has been very profitable in the last few years. Therefore the manufacturers should have built up large cash reserves - where did the profits go?"

    In the case of JLR they went to Ford at the time they were sold to Tata. That included a healthy profit for Q1 2008 too...before the downturn took a grip.

  • Comment number 19.

    First he done deals on yachts, now he's doing deals on cars.

    Amazing Lord

  • Comment number 20.

    So the final lines give it away

    Mandy has managed to provide funding that ensures that Landrover and Jaguar stay in Tata hands instead of actually realising the whole debt mountain is unsustainable and let it go to the highest bidder. Even the workers would be able to buy it now.

    You don't need to prop up viable businesses, and I don't accept that the banks aren't willing to offer car loans which would be substantially cheaper.

    If this funding actually props up the Sub Prime motor loans then Crash is backing a loser before the race starts.

  • Comment number 21.

    The old favourites:

    Poor lawyer
    Honest politician (whether elected or unelected it seems...)

    have been joined by a new oxymoron:

    Green Car


    Save petrol...Burn cars! (but ensure your toxic emission capture techonology is working first, of course)


  • Comment number 22.

    They need to work out the fundamental problem - are cars not being bought because no-one can get credit to buy one, or because people don't buy major capital items in times of uncertainty.

    If it is the former, the bailing out of the companies themselves should be unnecessary - just free up the credit with some form of loan guarantee (after all cars are an asset with a value to put against the loan).

    If it is the latter, they need to help companies mothball plants for a year or two.

    Quite different responses.

    As usual the government is wading in with taxpayers' money without working out the problem.

  • Comment number 23.

    This is not a comment specific to the blog, but a shard of information relevant to the present situation.

    I have today received one of those 'Important information about changes to your account' letters from my credit card.

    The key sentence in the letter is:

    "Due to changes in the credit environment, it's now costing us more to lend".

    ?????? Base Interest rates are the lowest for 200 years, we (taxpayers) have pumped billions into the principal banks (to one of which my card is 'related'), and they put their rates UP ???????? Someone is 'aving a laugh' in no trumps.

    (The new rates they are setting in place are all well south of 20%.)

  • Comment number 24.

    What are we getting in return?

    Will UK plc be given a shareholding in these companies?

  • Comment number 25.

    Dear Robert

    This is an mitigating disaster Gordon Brown States he never saw this coming, Now he states its teething truoble for a new world order,
    Globalisation has not worked and those who were forcing it through have come a croper.
    The Banks went first, then a series of Commercial failures, then the High street, Followed by industry, now cut backs on major capital expenditure, and massive job losses.

    "How come we the general public knew of the credit and debt mountain, by reading the Papers, and listening to political programs etc, and the Prime Minister did not"?

    He has without doubt denied to himself the very existance of Fiscal failure when he had been warned dozens of times.
    THis a world disaster but i have a deep feeling it was generated by denial, a denial that has created an armegedan, from which everyone in the industrialised world is now suffering.

    This has to have been planned, plotted and implimented, there is no way that this just happened. no way at all,
    this was done on purpose a "Money Bloc" that burst on demand, and now Politicians and Bankers are hiding behind the " world excuse,"
    its not even palatable, as individual countries basic domestic fiscal policies were allowed to fail, when governments and the regulators turned a blind eye.
    THAT IS THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER.
    NOT THE WORLD ECONOMY,
    Had Brown had had the indicators in place and acted on them Britain would NOT be in this mess now, and that applies to America where all this has ben laid upon.
    What is ceratin and irreversable is that Brown has now condemned this country to a decade of suffering unparralled in modern fiscal fistory.
    Basically the government failed in protecting the country from Fraud, at the highest level.

  • Comment number 26.

    I guess most of the descenting comments on this blogg are from members of the financial sector who are happy to take taxpayers money in the hundreds of billions to pay ridiculous wages.

    Alternatively a good few will be from the one third of the population that work for the government that do not have to consider market forces and efficiency.

    Take a look at what other countries do to protect their manufacturing industry.

    They do not look after their industry because they want to give away taxpayers money.

    They do it because they realise the wealth it creates for their countries.

  • Comment number 27.

    I have'nt seen what the gov't proposes yet but as far as I am concerned it cant come too soon. The car part supply industry which relies on car manufacturing, is in complete meltdown, myself and many of my colleagues will loose there jobs very shortly, in my case prob this week.
    Its all very well saying I'm alright jack and the industry should make profit, it does in Europe, but due to the vast losses suffered in the US where much of the ownership lies, this is lost. I have never been out of work and at 51 terrified of what happens next. Be very thankful if you go untouched by all of this.

  • Comment number 28.

    One step close to bankrupting us all.

    Thanks Crash.

  • Comment number 29.

    Why are we giving tax payers money to the car industry when they are owned by foreign companies? Surely the money will just be taken out of the country to where these companies are based.

  • Comment number 30.

    Is this is an "appropriate response to a global problem" (the mantra of Mr Brown's choice at the moment) or a short term fix to bribe voters in Labour constituencies?

    If so why are we not hearing of other countries funding foreign manufacturers who have plants in their country.

    For example, Americans have funded American car plants but not Volkswagen, Toyota etc. who have major facilities in the country.

    We, however, are proposing to help Nissan, Honda and Toyota (Japan), Ford and GM (USA) and Tata (India).

    Are these international manufacturers going cap in hand to every government where they have plants and picking up a bit here, a bit there?

    Or - as I suspect - are we the only country to use taxpayers' money to fund foreign manufacturers?!

    Last but not least, have we any guarantees that they won't simply up sticks to a cheaper economy or the one offering the biggest subsidy when demand picks up?

  • Comment number 31.

    Brand new cars will help the dodgy bloodsucking Government vampires recover assets in future bankruptcies, child support and debt arrears (buy it someone else's name)

    https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7852640.stm


  • Comment number 32.

    No surprise here.

    This government did nothing to bail out the aviation industry when airlines went bankrupt recently, where all the usual arguments about saving jobs and related suppliers is just as relevant.

  • Comment number 33.


    This show a total lack of imagination.

    If you want 'green' stuff, why go to non-green companies to get it?

    In this context, we don't have a 'motor industry' and 'power companies' We have 'fossil fuel' industries.

    They have no automatic claim to new 'green money'.

    If you want a green car, why pay of the debts of a petrol-car company and ask them to do it?

    Just make it easy for new debt-free, baggage-free 'green transport' companies to be founded.

    If you want green energy why go to fossil-fuel energy compaines?

    Just make it easy for new debt-free baggage-free 'green energy' comapines to be founded.

    New green companies should be directly competing with the incumbent 'fossil fuel' companies -- and if they get it right the old companies will either change themselves (at no cost to the taxpayer) or they will be going to the wall.

  • Comment number 34.

    This looks to me like gesture politics, with the government needing to be seen to be doing something even if the "something" is of minimal real effectiveness and value.

    The motor industry (and its suppliers) is concentrated in a string of important constituencies - unlike, say, Woolworths, where job losses were spread nationally - and has vociferous unions.

    The problem is that customers are not buying cars. If we support the industry without the demand side changing, all we do is pay for more and more cars to sit on airfields. This would elevate the "produce for the sake of production" mindset to an art-form.

    Customers have stopped buying for three reasons. First, because they cannot get credit; second, because their incomes are reduced; third, because people feel that buying big-ticket items is unwise at a time of such economic uncertainty.

    It might be possible to part-fix the credit issue, but this would suck in imported vehicles. But we can do nothing about the second component, which is reduced incomes. And the wariness of customers about big-ticket items will remain a problem until there is a real upturn in confidence, which will take a very long time (years, I think, not months).

    So let us be clear that the taxpayer is going to be bailing out the car industry, ineffectively, for political reasons. If this is short term, it will be futile; if long term, hugely expensive. And we should remember that virtually all of the companies being helped are foreign-owned. This bail out will be really helpful to some people in certain cities - Detroit, Tokyo, Mumbai and Paris come to mind.

    At times like this, politicians are very expensive.............

  • Comment number 35.

    I can see that Peter Mandelson's super-rich friends might benefit from these measures but exactly how does Britain benefit if my taxes are used to help people buy a new German or Japanese car?

  • Comment number 36.

    Getaway Cars should be provided for all Bank Robbers.

    (At least our leaders can plead insanity when caught).

  • Comment number 37.

    ...or perhaps we're not buying cars, because there is some question about how we're all going to be taxed for them.

  • Comment number 38.

    Drive on the M5 past Avonmouth near Bristol, and you'll see hundreds and hundreds of cars all in rows. Simply at the moment, more cars are being made (and the wrong type of cars?) than being sold.

    It's not about access to funds.

  • Comment number 39.

    What about manufacturers of Printing Presses ?

    They'll be hard done by if Govt doesn't have the presses rattling day and night SOON.

    But then the likes of DeLaRue could print their own subsidy, could they not Mr Peston ?

  • Comment number 40.

    "What Peter Mandelson will announce this afternoon is guarantees for borrowings by manufacturers of cars and construction vehicles.."

    You mean BEFORE the yachts are visited?

    Does not compute! Does not compute! Does not compute! |Does not compute!

  • Comment number 41.

    Hi Rob,

    You know what amazes me is this idiotic governments assumption that people want to buy cars at anywhere near the rate they have been in the past few years.

    The world is going through a deleveraging process. People are content with what they have got (not what they want) and industry is going to have to get used to this fact.

    All these cries for support seem to suggest that there are a whole plethora of buyers wanting to extend their credit even more to buy a second or third car. This premis is simply false.

    Offering this kind of credit guarantee is not going to start people spending on credit anymore. People want to save. So, if anyone in nuLabour with more than 1/2 a braincell is reading this, encact changes in the law to encourage people to save.

    Trying to kick start the economy with taxpayer's money is throwing good after bad and will saddle all of us (recently empoverished) with a huge tax increase hangover in the years to come.

  • Comment number 42.

    This is investing in failure - by the back door.

    This is perpetrating a fraud on every company in the motor industry supply chain who invests good money on the strength of this artificial market.

    If Mrs Thatcher hadn't bailed out the motor industry when she dropped other lame ducks, all those suppliers would've been spared the best part of 30 years investing in failure.

  • Comment number 43.

    I run a secondhand car sales business and finance companies are falling over themselves to lend money, this is the government spin to blame the banks and anyone but themselves for a failing ecconomy. Brown is the never never P.M.

  • Comment number 44.

    Lord Fowler, committee chairman, said it was "vital" that important announcements were first made to Parliament.

    "When Gordon Brown became prime minister he said it was his aim to put Parliament back at the centre of political life.

    "However his premiership has not ended the trend for ministers and government departments to make their policy announcements outside Parliament first.

    "It is important that this is stopped. There should be no question of ministers giving policy decisions in advance to favoured journalists or newspapers.

    -----------------------------------

    Robert -- seems to me and I suspect many others reading Nick & your blogs that you both constantly fall in this category.

    Tell us honestly where did you get this information from ?

    Peter M. direct perhaps or one of the many Labour "spinners".

    Time for some of that "impartiality" that the BBC is claiming over the Gaza charity issue.

  • Comment number 45.

    #39

    You got me thinking do the staff at De La Rue print their own wages?

  • Comment number 46.

    Hi

    Perhaps if car manufacturers had not produced 'new' cars twice a year, ie January and August, but just once a year, then they would not now have a surplus of unsold cars. Just a thought.

  • Comment number 47.

    Bailing out the car industry...

    Lets think about this from a realistic point of view.

    New cars are bought predominantly by companies, these are the same companies who are struggling in a recession, so unemployment is rising as these said companies downsize.

    so we have less people wanting a new car. point 1

    If an individual bought a new car, he would be a proud owner of a glossy piece of metal. if he took out a loan, he would need to borrow - no credit. point 2

    but if he got a loan and drove off in his nice new vehicle, the value of the car drops by 25% as soon as it leaves the forecourt. hence he is in negative equity. point 3

    No doubt he likes his car enough to continue paying for the loan throughout its useful life.... this is exactly the same as buying a house, the loan is higher than the current value - negative equity. so why do people want to leave their nice new unaffordable house but keep the car ?????

    Most prudent purchasers buy second hand cars (nearly new) to benefit from depreciation savings. So the question is how to create second hand cars first, or make cars that do not immediately loose value when driven.

    it seems that we are trying to keep something afloat for the future, when no-one knows when the future will arrive and how it will look.

    Car manufacturers are part of the circle of life (business) and some future entrepreneur will get the benefit of this, but for now, let them wallow in the misery of recession. We have successfully killed textile production, mining, engineering for a cleaner operating life. perhaps we need to get dirty again.


  • Comment number 48.

    14. At 1:29pm on 27 Jan 2009, garethm2 wrote:

    If the economy is going to recover in a sustainable way then it has to be rebalanced. We've become far too dependent on candy floss "industries" like financial services and retailing and we need to get back to proper industries that create real wealth. And that's why we have to ensure that companies like JLR, Vauxhall, JCB and Corus get through the recession.

    *********************************

    These industries do not create wealth in an of themselves. They are one in a long chain of enablers that must be appropriately sized to supply its services to its customer base. No point having the market saturated with new cars if there's a reduced user base.

    I'm beginning to think that finance follows the second law of thermodynamics. Wealth (energy) can neither be created nor destroyed but can only change hands (form).

    How many true wealth creation companies are out there anyway? What constitutes wealth?

  • Comment number 49.

    Green Cars?

    80% of the environmental damage done by cars is in making them, not using them.

    What Mandy is doing is ensuring that lots more damage to the environment in the UK.

    What's worse is that the battery powered cars touted as green are much worse for the planet and also put us in the hands of some pretty unstable economies.

    Batteries are full of environmentally damaging heavy metals and have a shorter life than current cars (so cars will be replaced more often with even more environmental damage) and components such as nickel are so damaging that plants have a no-growth zone for miles round them.

    Lithium, - as found in laptop batteries - is touted as the best battery material. It only comes from Bolivia and is a finite resource - if 1 in 20 cars used Lithium Ion batteries it would run out in 20 years.

    Electricity comes from fossil fuels and our National Grid is so inefficient that only 1/4 of the kilowatts produced reaches the consumer - so 4 times as much fossil fuel is burnt as need be. It is only cheap as a vehicle fuel because it carries no fuel tax - if all cars used it the treasury would either go bust or have to tax it heavily to make up the petrol tax shortfall.

    Until we have abundant nuclear or renewable energy to create hydrogen the green car is a myth. Even then it has to last 25 years or more to justify the carbon cost of its production.

  • Comment number 50.

    Once upon a time people saved up to buy a car. The special lease deals and 0% finance were a product of the bubble during the past ten years. Anyway, as others have pointed out, there is massive overcapacity in the car industry, caused in part by the fact that modern cars are just too reliable to need replacing so often.

    And another thing, Brown & Co are leading us to disaster, but was I the only one who was depressed by the feeble (and feeble brained) performance of David Cameron on Sky News last night?

  • Comment number 51.

    What worries me, is that if the government are using so much of the taxpayers' money to prop up everything from banks to car manufacturers, will an eventual shortfall mean that public spending, if NHS, Social Services, Education suffer from lack of funding?

    And, would there then be drastic cuts in the above three areas?

  • Comment number 52.

    Congratulations New Labour !

    You have managed to achieve what many Labour governments have failed to do. Namely nationalise (in whole or in part) many of the UK's commercial strongholds.

    And in true Labour style you've done with money that the country does not possess !

  • Comment number 53.

    Here we go again! How much more money are we needlessly going to throw away proping up outfits that are no longer profitable? I was taught that a fundmental rule of a free market is survival of the fittest, with the weakest going to wall thereby strengthening the fittest. This however appears to have been dropped in favour of try to support everything to prevent the inevitable because the politicians are petrified that anything other than the status quo will finish their polirtical careers and possibly the way our society functions for ever.

    The problem is that they are not looking for an effective change to a system that is collapsing and is rapidly becoming untenable, but just a quick political way of trying shore it all up - a bit like plugging a hole in a dam just to have another appear somewhere else. I fear the end result will be much more catastophic and will create far more damaging problems for the future than bravely dealing with the real causes now and I'm convinced that borrowing/printing more money adinfiniteum is NOT the answer!

  • Comment number 54.

    Tata have a problem because they need to refinance a huge loan. ie they BORROWED a whole stack of cash to take over Jaguar. Tata have oodles of cash they are enormous and they should pay up not the taxpayer. If they cannot find the money, let them go to the wall and let the Government buy Jaguar / Landrover back from the administrators. Of course, if you are telling me that no sane person would now buy Jaguar / Landrover, then is the Government simply buying votes again? Remember, these vehicles are not exactly environmentally friendly and they are in a market where there is over-capacity.

  • Comment number 55.

    Dear Gordon, As everyone seems to be getting a bail out and your splashing the cash around, please pay off my unnsecured debts that I am struggling to pay, especially considering its my hard earnt tax money you are using so as the old saying goes "charity starts at home"!

  • Comment number 56.

    Re Motor industry - simply the politics of fear - with the economy so skewed towards financial services, retail and property, the demise of the little remaining manufacturing and engineering would make any recovery take even longer if ever. The green bit is a fig leaf to get around EU rules. Mandy is probably congratulating himself as I write at the clever, clever solution. Shame no one except beige people want green cars.

    Re £90m (not a large sum these days) lost by RBoS shareholders (mainly UK taxpayers and pension funds) to US hedge fund shorting RBS. Let's knock this off the bill for the JSF or Trident upgrade when the bill comes in. The UK economy and democracy is in play on the global free markets and there is nothing we can do to stop it. Robert we know it's bad but can't we have some leadership from somewhere to tell us how bad it is and what they plan to do about it. Where's the party political broadcast when you need one? Did I just say that?

  • Comment number 57.

    45. At 2:23pm on 27 Jan 2009, scouseflyer wrote:
    #39

    You got me thinking do the staff at De La Rue print their own wages?

    In effect souseflyer they do !

  • Comment number 58.

    Making finance available to the car industry should be linked to the production of better fuel efficient cars and the production of hybrids cars (Electric / combustion)
    If the Car Industry is to survive, it has to become not only competitive but also contribute towards the green policies of our Government.

  • Comment number 59.

    This time last year HMG were trying to put Land Rover (Chelsea tractors) out of business now they are saving them. Hey Ho.

    Still when the Hyperinflation hits all debts are off and we can all start again.

    Oh no I don't have any debt, better buy a couple of Land Rovers.

  • Comment number 60.

    It would appear that this government have NOT listened to some of the more common sense medical advice on how to combat the common cold.

    Method 1: take some expensive syrup concoction to ease the sore throat, rub on some expensive ointment to protect the chest, take some expensive tablets to make the sore head bearable, clear the nasal passages and use an expensive spray to help keep them clear, wrap up warm and stay indoors.

    Cost: a small fortune.
    Estimated time of recovery: 5-7 days.

    Method 2: wrap up, stay indoors and do as little as possible; a liberal strength hot toddy may make you feel better but has no proven medical effect.

    Cost: next to nothing.
    Estimated time of recovery: 5-7 days.

    It would seem that only an Economic version of Method 1 is on their timetable, and we going to be paying back the very LARGE fortune for little effective result.

    I VOTE "DO NOTHING" ! !

  • Comment number 61.

    "Who's gonna pick you up,"
    "When You fall? "
    "Who's gonna hang it up,"
    "When you call?"
    "Who's gonna drive you home, tonight?"

    [Drive lyrics performed by The Cars.
    The DRIVE LYRICS are the property of the respective authors, artists and labels]


  • Comment number 62.

    I left school at 16 and have worked extremely hard and paid my taxes ever since. I'm 37 now. On a fairly good wage at 31k per annum. However i'm on the breadline. I got married in 2003 and had my first child in 2005. Everything was great. My wife decided she wanted to be with someone else and left me. She now lives with a very rich man and drives a merc. I have to pay 15 % of my net salary to her for the upkeep of our son which she never spends on him per se. I have to drive 50 miles every weekend to pick him up because she completely rufuses to help out. I have just had another child and am now really with the right person and in that respect life is good. However, my old banger (car) just failed it's MOT and I cannot afford to get it back on the road. Why? Firstly, the mechanics charge of 60 pounds an hour is a joke. Once all of my bills are paid to put a roof over my head, pay maintenance (why I should be paying this I don't know as i've done nothing wrong and it's nothing short of criminal) pay the bills and travel to work which costs me £4800 a year!!!! (I have to commute to London) brought food etc I have absolutely nothing left. I've never earned a huge wage and have not even been able to save, which as it turns out with interest rates doesn't disapoint me too much, apart from a pension which won't be worth anything because of these cowboys in charge.
    So, not only am I being priced off the railways (I'm trying to be green you know), totally knackered from doing 60 hours a week, unable to save, unable to get my car on the road and being robbed by my ex wife who left me and I have to pay, why the hell would I want a car loan from a sleazeball governement to buy another car when I can't afford to put petrol in it because the gas bill is so high and the cahoot flexible loan that i got at 6% is now charging me 21% interest (more daylight robbery) meaning it will take me 15 years to pay back the 3k loan on it?I've simply run out of money. What comes in goes out. Labour got it wrong. Britain isn't working. Britain is broke and is being run by a bunch of arrogant, power hungry individuals that do nothing but lie and cheat the people. I know many many other people in this same situation. This government are so out of touch with reality it's not funny anymore. I've watched and read everything about our economic mess and now I am actually getting ill over the stress of living here under this governement. can I sue them? Really! can I ? Everytime I read these blogs or watch the politicians on the BBC or wherever I get a rush of blood to my head. They never answer questions truthfully. They always avoid them and we're paying for these jokers to buy their second homes and fill them up with quality goods!! How the hell can it happen???
    Now the lords are corrupt and cannot be prosecuted. To quote Terry Wogan..'Is it me'? What the hell is going on? Why aren't people taking to the streets? The dark one is announcing saving the car industry and jobs and creating money for more loans. Are they for real? Who the hell can afford more credit? Haven't they learned from their own mistakes about credit. They keep talking about the need to get banks lending again to business and individuals. Well most individuals are like me. They can't take any more on - don't they get it? There's nothing left to be able to afford it. Things are too expensive and people have had their fill. No amount of cars being manufactured is going to solve this crisis. Man there must be about 10 million cars standing unpurchased on this land anyway. Why don't they get rid of them first or give em away? it's not our fault they over manufactured and made them too expensive to buy. It's a freaking joke this country and I urge anyone who doesnt' have any real reason to stay here get out while you can.
    Jeeeezus this is making me mad!!!!!

    Sorry...that's better...just had to get that out...

  • Comment number 63.

    A few points:

    It simply isn't true to suggest hat people can not get loans to buy new cars. The truth is that people are simply unwilling (rightly) to borrow money for a new car when they are unsure if they will have a job in 6 months time. It just isn't necessary to replace your car every 3 years, so why bother burdening yourself with (even) more debt?

    The development of green technology is welcome, but actually this won't keep an entire assembly line busy, just the R&D department (and buying a new 'green' car is not as green as keeping your old 'dirty' car anyway).

    What about intellectual Property Rights? If the taxpayer funds Land Rover to develop a super new clean engine, who profits? Tata or HMG? I don't have a problem with useing taxpayer money to safeguard jobs, but I do hope that long term, the taxpayer gets someting back in return from the companies.

    There is (and has been for sometime) oversupply in the car market. Selfishly, I hope that it is plants in USA, France and Korea that close, but, of course, those countries will also be doing all they can to ensure their peoples' jobs.

    As someone mentioned earlier, this government didn't consider MG Rover worth saving, why are foreign owned car companies deemed worthy now?

    What about double glazing and conservatory businesses? They are (were) viable businesses, and double glazing is environmentally friendly. It costs as much as a new car. Can these companies get government handouts to see them through the (indeterminate) lean period and retrain their staff? Or are they small enough that there is no political embrassment when they go under?

    It seems to me that we should all work for big companies, jobs are much more secure. There is definitately a growing issue of moral hazard, risk and reward. If large companies are not allowed to fail, they are not under any pressure to operate responsibly. They can take big risks - if the gamble pays they profit, if it doesn't the taxpayer coughs up. A small company on the other hand, must act more responsibly, knowing that they will not be bailed out if things go wrong. This will make the small business ultimately uncompetitive. Maybe, in the current climate, this is an unavoidable side effect. But it is a problem, and I would like to know whether the governement has any plans in the longer term on how to redress it.

  • Comment number 64.

    Brilliant!

    So instead of creating money on the back of sub-prime mortgages (with asset security that was thought to be guaranteed to grow) we're now going to perform the same trick with cars (with asset security guaranteed to fall).

    Brilliant.

  • Comment number 65.

    Let me get this right. So Gordon Brown puts up the road tax on gas guzzling cars i.e. Jaguars and Range Rovers and because the sales have dropped we now bail them out with tax payers money. I thought the idea was to force people to drive economical cars and unfortunately the above are not.

  • Comment number 66.

    "The motor industry has been desperate for help with research and development into a new generation of "green" cars."

    Oh yes and jaguar have just unveiled their fastest car ever.........Yes that's really green.

    I totally object to using our money to bail out luxury car makers selling cars most people cannot afford nor want!

    To try and justify this as a "Green" agenda is utterly disgusting to say the least!


    What have the done with all the profits?

  • Comment number 67.

    The easy way for the car industry to be assisted is for the government to remove the sales tax for a year or so. This would stimulate sales without handing over any more public money to lost causes. The car industry must also help itself by reducing their margins. There are far too many forecourts still charging , or attempting to charge , full list price, in spite of the industry's claims to the contrary. One need only look at the on line dealers' prices to see how much the forecourts are ripping off the punters. Car prices on the European mainland are still well below ours for like models, though the industry will also deny this, so they do not deserve public handouts, they must sell their products at a competetive price if they want to survive. The ones who do will survive Gordon Brown's incompetencies, the ones who don't will disappear.

  • Comment number 68.

    Why is the British government shoring up foreign companies?
    Surely any problem with these manufacturers rests with the parent company.
    I for one object to our money being paid out to support Ameican Multinationals.

  • Comment number 69.

    Funny how they let Rover die in 2005, isn't it?
    I guess that political expediency must be the order of the day now, given this change of heart. Maybe if government departments had bought more British cars rather than fleets of French and German cars then our motor industry might just not have needed bailing out to this extent.

  • Comment number 70.

    47 % less cars being manufactured still doesn't mean the end of the car industry.

    It is a contraction that is part of the overall contraction in the world economy.

    There are still a lot of cars being sold as there are still more people in work than not.

    UK car industry is modern and well able to restructure to cope with the decrease in demand.

    Unemployment like everywhere else in a shrinking market is sadly inevitable

    There is still a lot of cash in the economy and so there will still be many who can afford to buy these cars for some time to come.

    It is not all doom and gloom as some would suggest just another case for restructuring the companies.

  • Comment number 71.

    If the taxpayer is going to start underwriting more and more personal credit in the way of car loans and mortgages over the coming months then is it not fair to ask what the new lending criteria will be for these companies to the borrower? After all, we will be told that this money will be lent responsibly but if the lenders are in the position of earning all the interest while we take all the risk, thats just a recipe for disaster. This is OUR money that these people will be lending now, not theirs, and it should be done as transparently as possible not shrouded in the mists of mystery.

  • Comment number 72.

    62. fookinhellno:

    "Labour got it wrong. Britain isn't working. Britain is broke and is being run by a bunch of arrogant, power hungry individuals that do nothing but lie and cheat the people. I know many many other people in this same situation. This government are so out of touch with reality it's not funny anymore................. Now the lords are corrupt and cannot be prosecuted. To quote Terry Wogan..'Is it me'? What the hell is going on? Why aren't people taking to the streets?"

    This is a brilliant and heartfelt contribution which I urge everyone to read. It sums up the reality of the mess we are in. Failed government; failed economy; failed system. Failed state? Failed society? I am not usually quite this gloomy, but things are getting worse, and worse, and worse..... and I have no idea why, in response to your question, people haven't taken to the streets.

  • Comment number 73.

    One more thing - car manufacturers and part suppliers have had many, many good years. As a consequence, wages in the industry are very high - much higher than they really ought to be considering the skill levels required and relative availability of labour (this is not just a UK problem, US automotive plant salaries are high too). Perhaps if they reduced their wage bill to more sensible levels, they wouldn't be in this mess?
    Of course, car worker's pay is peanuts compared to bankers' salaries. But they are a law unto themselves...

  • Comment number 74.

    Great post #62....you really capture the net effect of 10 years of Labour on the average bloke in the street.

    I expect your position is not at all uncommon these days, and a terrible indictment of what this country has become under this useless government.

    I hope things work out for you. A general election would be a step in the right direction.



  • Comment number 75.

    Mandy has just demonstrated what a silly billy he is.

    Like many who don't understand issues such as supply chains or indeed basic engineering he's talking about using taxpayers cash to bribe car manufacturers to build hybrid, electric and other "green" vehicles.

    However, whilst Mandy was doing that this was announced...

    https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7851344.stm

    Classic commissariat style behaviour... left hand doesn't know what further left hand is doing!

  • Comment number 76.

    I'd rather the Govt invested in the nation's infrastructure than propping up failing car manufacturers.

    What's wrong with giving train builders to produce more carriages for Britain's bursting railways.

    Or even getting on with building MagLev railways.

    Then again as we can see with NuLabour scuppering the plans for 2nd Forth Road bridge (weirdly because it's not expensive enough), the Govt aren't interested in what's best for the country at large, but rather in political point scoring and trying to save their own sorry derrieres.

  • Comment number 77.

    Where do all the leaks come from these days? Easy, the House of Lords. Wee Willy Straw isn't the only one to have a Dad in high places, you know...

  • Comment number 78.

    If things are so desparate in the car industry, why haven't there been any serious fire sales as would happen in other sectors like retail? The taxpayer has been given the poisoned chalice by Mandy to buy some more votes.

    I am expecting Tata toturn up as Labour donors in due course (unless Mandy is already working on a fourth resignation). Tata bought Jaguar Landrover by taking on big loans if they default, let them go to the wall and taxpayer can buy back from the administartors for a peppercorn. Of course, whether it makes any conceivable sense except to Nulab to rescue a firm producing gas-guzzling speed limit breakers is a question that must be asked.

    If there has to be support, why not limit it to cars with engines less than 1.4 Litres or capable of 60mpg plus?

  • Comment number 79.

    Speaking of cars, aren't these driven on increasingly congested roads ? Were not "shovel ready" plans to spend 4 billion UK pounds on tactical motorway congestion easing schemes abandoned as a cost saving measure only last week ?
    Wouldn't these plans have represented a stimulus with lasting benefit for all road users ?
    This year I won't be renewing my 2-year old car as I traditionally have done. This has but little to do with the current economic situation. Rather, I'm fed up with the government's ever increasing tax fall providing minimal improvement for the motorist.

  • Comment number 80.

    62,

    Thats a very common situation, I know!

  • Comment number 81.

    Robert,

    Please press the government about their car tax strategy. The government have been very keen to tax people away from high CO2 emmision cars. Now, surprise surprise no one want to buy them, so the government bails out the car firms. You couldn't make this up!

  • Comment number 82.

    JPMorgan, CITIBank & Bank of America on the verge of Lehman Brothers collapse...

    (See OCC report, pdf page 23.) at:

    [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]

    NOTIONAL AMOUNT OF DERIVATIVE CONTRACTS TOP 25 HOLDING COMPANIES IN DERIVATIVES
    SEPTEMBER 30 2008 $$ MILLIONS

    At their latest reckoning, Bank of America and Citigroup held
    credit default swaps with notional values of $2.5 trillion and $3.3 trillion respectively.

    Total between the two banks:

    An astounding $5.8 trillion...

    Bank of America and Citigroup's combined credit default swaps are more than sixty times larger than the $90 billion they've
    received so far in capital infusions from the US Treasury Department.

    According to the OCC, among the three megabanks, JPMorgan Chase is actually the most heavily leveraged, with over 400% of its capital already exposed to the risk of default by trading partners.

    Bank of America's and Citigroup's exposure (177.6% and 259.5%,
    respectively) is also crazy maths, but JPMorgan Chase's exposure is obviously
    far greater...

    The bank has $9.2 trillion in credit default swaps, almost twice as
    much as Bank of America and Citigroup combined.

    I predict that these megabanks will be too big too save in the short term and the ripple effect will be disastrous for UK banks including some of our own megabanks who we know are in serious trouble but won't admit it...

    Playing for time as they continue to hemorrhage bad, toxic debts and our governments continue to use ICU measures to offset the inevitable...

  • Comment number 83.

    Given that Land Rover Jaguar exports a huge proportion of its production, surely we should be supporting profitable exporters at this time? I thought that getting foreign currency in

    And if we do let LRJ and others go to the wall (to the barely disguised glee of the loony green types), perhaps we should return ourselves to pre-industrialised Britain and a life of serfdom or peasantry?

    Without industry, where else is the wealth going to be created in this country? Boutique homeotherapy vendors? Exotic nut importers?

    You can bet your lentil soup that the Germans are protecting their car brands ready for the recovery, whatever form that takes.

    The schadenfreude exhibited by some is laughable. Especially, given the current situation. We should be doing everything we can to protect successful British brands.

    Incidentally, some have asked why Rover wasn't saved. Well, Rover was a dog and with no brand presence and was dead in the water. It was not viable. You can't say the same about Land Rover or Jaguar, both market leaders in their sectors. Only specific circumstances and the credit crisis threaten an otherwise sound and profitable business.

  • Comment number 84.

    74,


    Wykhamist – True but lets not forget it was the tories that introduced the very wrong CSA (Hey now they can take your passport off you, now that is a punishment!)

    The raping of the uk population goes on unabated, when wlll the people take to the streets and start hanging the folk in charge?

  • Comment number 85.

    # 49. PeterJ42 wrote:
    "Green Cars?

    80% of the environmental damage done by cars is in making them, not using them"


    Where on earth did you get that 80% figure from?


    The last report openly published on this was by VW and it stated that their particular manufacturing accounted for 27-30% of a car's total CO2 footprint. Substantial yes, but it means the bulk of the carbon was emitted after the car was delivered to its first owner.

    The last time the UK's Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders commented on this in 2005 they estimated the footprint to build an average car in Britain as 600kg of CO2. It could well be less now. There are online calculators forthese things now.

    Low carbon emission cars have a carbon dioxide emission rate of less than 100g/km. Very highly polluting cars have a carbon emission rate of over 200g/km. Even the lowest is emitting - over about 10,000 miles - which is not a high annual mileage - 1.6 tonnes of CO2, two and half times what it cost in CO2 to build it...

    And naturally, CO2 cost to build is a relatively fixed quantity whereas use it certainly not so you can't form a valid argument on that basis - although many are already trying to. Low CO2 emission cars DO make sense for the environment, albeit that 'how many' should be produced?' is a very good question. There is massive over-production everywhere you look.



    GC

  • Comment number 86.

    Back to the Future IV!
    This is 1960s economics, when the country stood or fell by heavy engineering, represented by the car. It was replaced by 1980s economics, when it stood or fell by the City. Now, instead of focusing on a centre of excellence to lead the way out of the morass, they crawl back to the de Lorean approach...
    It's incorrect, in passing, to suggest HMG's guarantees to small business are working - the symptoms of the earlier direct-lending post says Plan B died in the water as we predicted, for exactly the same reasons Plan A did. Watch for full nationalisation of retail banking within 2 weeks

  • Comment number 87.

    Bailing out the motor industry (and others to come) looks to be the fast track for a total collapse of our society as we know of.

    We already have the electro-magnetic generator engine (EBM Technology) to replace our old combustion engine.

    A small DC motor initially rotates the EBM drive unit until it achieves operational speed. Its unique geometry allows excess shaft power to be produced as the rotor is rotated through the magnetic field. The shaft power is converted to electricity via a synchronous generator attached to the shaft of the EBM unit. A small quantity of this electricity is then fed back to the EBM unit as excitation current to continue the rotation. The excess powers produced can be used or sold for profit.

    As the current economic crisis unfold couple with reactions from our elitist “leaders” and knowing that the new technologies are ready to be commercialized, lots of questions are popping up.

  • Comment number 88.

    Unelected Lord hands out taxpayers money to foreign owned businesses and amends laws.

    Is this connected with any other news item?

    Can someone help me with my credit card bill?

  • Comment number 89.

    Friendlycard @ 72

    People haven't taken to the streets because we have not yet reached the tipping point.

    Which naturally leads on to the question of when will we get to that stage, if ever?

    Although in the end, it may be a tiny individual action such as refusing to give up a seat on a bus, that sends the movement 'over the edge', there will be a number of larger events just before that point, which in retrospect were the primary drivers.

    For examples, major bank failure(s), mass unemployment, pandemic and so on.

    I believe we English have been far too passive about politics in the past decades and the time may be fast approaching when a radical shake-up is precisely what is required.

    In that sense, a few riots and a total recasting of the English political system may turn out to be the best thing that has happened to us English since we were last independent a few hundred years ago.

  • Comment number 90.

    #87

    Hear, Hear there's so much nonsense spouted about so called "gas-guzzling cars" that it makes my blood boil!

    I posted some figures on here a while back about how many of the Land-Rovers and Jags had emissions similar or better to a family car such as the Ford Mondeo - are we going to ban them too! Much of the eminity pointed at Jaguar's and especially LR is people being able to have a go at someone for their class (inverse snobbery) whilst hiding behind a green banner.

    Re Rover, it was a rump that was doomed from the moment BMW stripped out the good parts and either sold them on (Land Rover) or kept them (the new Mini). it's just a shame that they didn't merge with Honda back in the Early 90s as they know how to build smaller cars and run a sucessful business.

  • Comment number 91.

    much of this is music to my ears. Governments planning for declining industries should be a natural thing to do.

    My reservation is, wouldn't it be greener ( and possibly fairer) for the goverment to invest heavily into public transport?

    Also if this is truely green investment wouldn't the r and d take many years before cars were available for us all to buy?

    surely mandy wouldn't resort to pure spin!

    Wouldn't it also be great if the world could share its knowledge to produce good quality green cars, instead at best heavy uk investment being copies and at would the uk picking the wrong option.

  • Comment number 92.

    If a UK car manufacturer, say Jaguar, borrows money from a part nationalised UK bank, say RBS, and then defaults then what is the position of the guarantee given by the UK Government?
    I presume that the Government would then pay RBS in order that it can maintain its capital position but this would, surely, mean that the Government was paying itself.
    This whole thing is getting very complicated!

  • Comment number 93.

    Hmmm, Ken didn't pull his punches did he?

    Nice to hear someone take on Mandy, just a pity it isn't across the same despatch box

    Maybe we can get him to ask about parties on yachts, or mortgage discrepancies.

  • Comment number 94.

    # 62 and 63 pretty much said it all.

    May I just add that it's alarming having the country run by a bunch of self serving buffoons.

    This scheme is ridiculous!

  • Comment number 95.

    So the government brings in measures to discourage people from buying gas guzzling cars, sales drop through the floor. Government gives the foreign owners our tax Monet they then give it to their competitor as sponsorship for their racing car. Pressy you could not make it up are you such a limp lettuce that you cannot tie these Muppet's of Ministers in knots? Tell you what Give me a week at your side and I'll show you how to do your job. Being a licence payer I contribute to your wages I just wish I had the power to sack you and your oppo Robinson.

    I bet Nixon would have loved to of had you pair around instead of Bernstein and Woodward. I could just imagine the sweet nothings "Hey Dick been up to much"? "nah you now how it is boy's bit o this and a bit o that just shooting the breeze lads". "Oh right, that's fine then shall we tell everyone not to worry it's all kosher in the big house then"? "That would be real swell boy's". (Dicks thought for the day) glad these lads ain't Limeys they'd be after Knighthoods.

    It Tata is in such dire straights then they should not be funding Ferrari on the other hand why not nationalise the firm run it as a private company let it keep its share holders but when the profits come rolling back in reap the benefits? Be brave follow the Nisan example one union no strike deal and turn the place around.

    By the way is Mandy going sailing with Ratan any time soon? Go on Pressy find a pair and do your job not Gordy "I didn't eat all the pies" Brown's.

  • Comment number 96.

    85. guycroft:

    "The last report openly published on this was by VW and it stated that their particular manufacturing accounted for 27-30% of a car's total CO2 footprint. Substantial yes, but it means the bulk of the carbon was emitted after the car was delivered to its first owner".

    Sounds about right.

    Though seeing through the green fig-leaf worn by Mandy today, I do believe that we need to make very major changes if the car industry is to survive.

    As well as some environmental impact from manufacturing, there is impact from disposal as well. This is actually worse with electric than with conventional vehicles.

    Some of the ways ahead are being piloted by Smart. Their cars have a low environmental impact during build, during use and through recycling. They are small (which helps with congestion as well as environmental impact). Their fuel efficiency is excellent. Their construction (titanium steel frame, recyclable plastic outer panels) is excellent.

    At the moment we are scrabbling around for environmental solutions, with no real focus. Biofuels are a bit daft - you use up half the energy growing them, and use up land that will be needed to feed people if the population keeps growing by 1.4 million a week. Electrics are OK, but you have to produce the electricity somehow. Fuel cells and hydrogen are less than wholly convincing.

    I think that we need to tweak existing technology. Smaller, lighter cars can be built, the way Smart do it. This could double average mpg. Hybrids are a good idea. We may also need to redesign the way in which we live - better public transport, greater housing density.

    If Mandy is serious about this (and not just using it as a fig-leaf for a bail-out) then we need a Royal Commission (or whatever) on the future of transport.

    I would not be at all surprised if Obama is thinking along these lines (it is the only way he can realise the ambition of freeing the US from dependency on imported oil).

  • Comment number 97.

    89,

    Listen to yourself!

  • Comment number 98.

    89. JohnConstable:

    "People haven't taken to the streets because we have not yet reached the tipping point.

    Which naturally leads on to the question of when will we get to that stage, if ever?"

    I suspect we may, and for some of the same reasons given in your post. Fundamentally, I suspect that the economy is going to get drastically worse, and that what we have seen so far is just a foretaste of what is to come.

    Combine economic hardship with growing contempt for the politicians and you have the recipe for a very nasty backlash. This may be one reason why our liberties are being steadily eroded - ID cards, surveillance, 42 days and so on. I have long wondered whether the powers that be are making preparations for something pretty nasty that they think may be coming.

  • Comment number 99.

    BBC Breaking News!!

    Pound bounces to over 1.40 to the US dollar!!


    Other News this Tuesday afternoon:

    Pound recovery bad news for exporters say exporters
    Pound recovery good news for the housing market say estate agents.
    Pound recovery great news say importers of cheap junk from Chiner.
    Pound recovery great news for us say sportsmen jetting round the planet playing games and completely unaffected by recession say sportsmen.
    Pound recovery should mean fewer repossessions says circuit judge.
    Pound recovery great news for us say travel firms.
    God Bless the Republic of Westminster say Peers.





    Later in the programme:

    Pound recovery shows we are doing whatever it takes says Brown pound recovery shows we are doing whatever it takes says Brown pound recovery shows we are doing whatever it takes says Brown pound recovery shows we are doing whatever it takes says Brown.



    Repossessions and foreclosures and redundancies up and nobody came.






    GC


  • Comment number 100.

    Have you noticed that many of those commenting today about how terrible it is government helping out the car industry are the same people who previously have been complaining that the government has been destroying manufactoring in this country?

    No 62 clearly is upset, but it's not the government's fault he got divorced, it's not the government's fault his car has broken down and it's not the government's fault that he signed a loan agreement where interest has increased from 6% to 21%. Government can't make people happy - they fund via taxation, public services and government can infliuence (for good or bad) the economy.

 

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