Vigorous - and high value - debate in Holyrood today on the topic of crime and punishment.
With regard to crime, there is common purpose. MSPs are against it.
With regard to punishment, there is substantial - and primarily honourable - division. Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill is in fine form in the chamber, defending his criminal justice proposals.
As I write, he is arguing that courts should no longer tolerate any excuses founded on misuse of alchol.
Or, to quote Mr MacAskill, relying upon his 20 years experience as a court lawyer, it should no longer be acceptable at all to suggest that "getting bevvied" exculpates an individual.
The justice secretary's critics are currently arguing that this particular measure is unnecessary - as courts already ignore such pleas.
But no matter. To the main division over punishment. The minister wants a legal presumption that courts will no longer impose prison sentences of six months or shorter.
This is not an absolute proscription of such sentences.
Mr MacAskill's argument is that such sentences do nothing to tackle reoffending. Indeed, they may enhance the prospect.
He wants "tough community sentences" instead.
Labour is against him. Broadly, they have mustered two arguments. One, that the provision for rehabilitation in the community is patchy at best - and likely to get worse with spending cuts.
Two, that many short sentences are for domestic abuse - and that women's groups fear the consequences of removing, in most cases, prison sentences as the disposal.
The Conservatives are also opposed, largely adopting the "prison works" mantra.
He wants fewer short sentences.
Asked to explain this difference in approach, Baillie Bill Aitken boldly resorted to devolution. It was right and proper that the Scottish Tories adopted their own policy with regard to Scotland's distinct circumstances.
The Liberal Democrats have done a deal with Mr MacAskill.
Instead of a presumption against sentences of six months or shorter, the figure will be three months.
That deal will stick.
There's more. We have now moved on to the issue of knife crime. Labour wants mandatory minimum prison sentences for carrying a blade.
Ministers - and senior police officers - say this approach is wrong. It would be a catch-all and would do little to tackle the underlying knife culture.