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Wednesday 7 March 2012

ADMIN USE ONLY | 14:19 UK time, Wednesday, 7 March 2012

Six UK soldiers have been killed in southern Afghanistan when their vehicle was hit by an explosion. We know that the military withdrawal is approaching, do we know what UK service personnel are fighting, and dying, for?

Is the UK economy starting to pick up? Paul Mason will report tonight on the green shoots he's spotted in Lincolnshire.

With Super Tuesday over and Mitt Romney edging towards the US Republican nomination, whatever happened to the Tea Party's political clout?


  • Comment number 1.

  • Comment number 2.

  • Comment number 3.

    The soliders are sent out by the government in an attempt to bring stability to the region (ie, keep the Taliban out).

    I hope for Britain's sake we are experiencing the green shoots.

    According to Ladbrokes, there's a 9-4 chance of Obama remaining in another term.

  • Comment number 4.

    # 3 Mistress76uk wrote:

    "The soliders are sent out by the government in an attempt to bring stability to the region (ie, keep the Taliban out)."

    Don't believe everything the media tells you. As JC often comments "I only watch NN now to find out what the BBC wants me to think".

    "Green shoots".....someone ask Vince to show us where these green shoots are (as opposed to Baroness Vadera, who also spotted them a around three years ago

    The US took 20 years to recover after the first Depression, with a world war in between.

    So what's changed in the underlying economy (ref industrial policy implementation). Oh! wait a minute maybe we'll be able to dance and sing our way out depression with the aid of our creative arts industry. And let's not forget the "skimmers" in The City. Now that's what I call wealth creation.

    Green shoots indeed.

  • Comment number 5.

    A re post from yesterday - because nothing is going to improve in the economy without this type of idea being implemented.


    I admit I don't like Evan Davis much, but he did provide an extraordinarily good interview of Steve Brittan - managing director of BSA machine tools and vice-president of the Birmingham Chamber of Commerce this morning on how the UK can possibly find its way out of the economic mess and rebalancing of the economy away from financial services. Both Davis and Brittan nailed it.

    You can hear the interview here...

    Please listen to it.

    "In a leaked letter, Business Secretary Vince Cable has said that the government lacks "a compelling vision" for the UK's economic policy.

    Steve Brittan, managing director of BSA machine tools and vice-president of the Birmingham Chamber of Commerce, told the Today programme's Evan Davis that he agreed with Mr Cable and that "things are not moving fast enough" despite the "right things being said".

    Mr Brittan also supported the idea, floated by Cable in the letter, of breaking up the Royal bank of Scotland in order to create a British business bank, saying the concept was "spot on"."

    Gosbank anyone!

  • Comment number 6.

    @3 .....and who trained, financed and armed the Taliban?

  • Comment number 7.


    I do not celebrate anyone's early death, but I AM moved to rail more, against our storage of unwilling UNdead, than mourn the loss of life among those who willingly gambled with theirs.

    Might we hear from those who know: what fraction of military heroes go killing for money, or to protect these islands, or for excitement (extreme paintballing) or because it was the only work they could get?

    My guess is that we could protect the homeland a lot more effectively IN TERMS OF TOTAL KILLED, by applying DEFENCE, than we ever will invading and despoiling Johnnie Foreigner land. I am persuaded that foreign military adventures are part of the perks of being a despot ruler of a tyrannical regime. It's a Middle Ages mentality.
    Nuff sed

  • Comment number 8.


    I must get a new dictionary.

  • Comment number 9.

    museV #5

    All the circumstantial evidence points the the probability that the UK government does have a long term strategy to turn the entire country into an eco/historical theme park for wealthy tourists to visit. All predicated on the back of the 2008 Climate Change Act, rural areas are to be economically cleansed of low income people using high road fuel and energy prices. The stock market set will then move in to said cleansed rural areas and work from home on the fast broadband being introduced, all low income people will be forced into the town ghetto's as identified by areas with heavy traffic calming / 20Mph Zones. Even the decent honest wealthy people will not have a clue what's going on for low income people as they will never venture of main routes, low income people will just be left to freeze and starve to death on mandatory menial work for their benefits ?

  • Comment number 10.

    AH - LADBROKES (#3 and 1)

    I feel sure Nolly would want me to tell you, 76, Ladbrokes banned Piers Corbyn from betting on the weather, BECAUSE HE WAS RIGHT MUCH MORE THAN THE MET OFFICE.

    Outstanding Piers Corbyn.

  • Comment number 11.


    why didn't the bbc give him the money to make a docu. The nation might have learnt something from the millions spent?

    The History of Empire: Exploitation And Resistance

  • Comment number 12.

    JunkkMale, (and anyone else who might be interested), have you seen this?

    Some of it is out of date, and none of it works on the new style blog threads as far as I can tell. Still useful for links, etc.

    Eternal gratitude to Ed Iglehart who left it on the PM blog.

  • Comment number 13.

    given the uk has never faced up to the Empire its no surprise we are still in places like afghanistan 'bringing the natives 'civilisation'?

    the happy clappy monarchist establishment will never want the truth about empire told. Especially not in a 'celebration' year. besides those titles with empire in them give one a sense of grandeur don't they?

    as for the ludicrous FO getting hysterical over russia let the govt sort its own corrupt class ridden country out first?

  • Comment number 14.

    Nicolas Sarkozy has declared there are too many foreigners in France. It must be election time in France then.

    Mansion tax: (I'm a bit late with this)
    Only a Marxist can come up with that one..oh and the Liberials, both of which have never produced a product or service that anybody wanted. So there you go, Vinny Cable is a Marxist.

  • Comment number 15.

    Another potentially good idea ruined in implementation by yet another New Labour mega expensive IT project ?

  • Comment number 16.

  • Comment number 17.

    Sad to hear again 6 of our brave soldiers have been killed.We are told every time that they die protecting our country,how must their family feel when we hear that 500,000 people were allowed to pass our borders without being checked due to not wanting a backlog at our airport.The sacrifice of our soldiers is scandalous and the public are fed up with the way both sides of the Goverments keep telling us that its the best way,maybe we should close borders to the perpetrators of war against the west ,what is our mission no one seems to know anymore Pakistan ,Afganistarn,Iraq we should deport those who preach there vile ways in this country ,no more deaths of our boys ,

  • Comment number 18.

    It is quite obvious that Colonel Stuart Tootal (DSO) has had all intelligence (ability to discriminate) removed from his being by institutionalised subordination and army discipline. I wonder what he does for fun?

    He's near the bottom of the DSO list somewhere.

  • Comment number 19.

    Paul Mason just cited some US economic figures...don't be fooled.

    Dr Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the US Treasury for Economic Policy during the Reagan administration and was associate editor of the Wall Street Journal.

    I reckon he knows what he's talking about when commenting on the US economy.

  • Comment number 20.


    Wrong link in #19 above...shold have been...

  • Comment number 21.

    Morman Mitt, Sanatorium and the Newt clearly are chosen to ensure another 4 more years for Obuma..even I'd vote for chairman Obama for another 4 more years in the white house if either of these 3 led the republocrats. Still no mention what-so-ever of Ron Paul from the main stream media, puzzled by that..well, I'm not really..I know whats going on..I've seen the memo.

  • Comment number 22.


    Something about: if you keep doing what you always did you will always get what you got last time?

    The world would appear to be clawing its way back TO WHERE IT WAS with the damaged, demon-driven, juveniles STILL WHERE THEY WERE - IN POWER.

    Why do NewsyNighty gurus not notice?

    And yes: I know I post on here and nothing changes. I am exercising my D MOCK CRASS SICK right. It's the only right I have.

  • Comment number 23.


    All witnesses appear (appropriately?) to be having a Porterhouse Blue. Anyone know why?

  • Comment number 24.

    what a silly debate we had over the tragic deaths of six soldiers chaired by Jeremy, we had the politicians, the usual Army guy, and the tragic mother of an injur5ed soldier but nobody representing the wider public...why not? I asked ten people today, some of them strangers whether it was worth all the human sacrifice we have had to endure...not one of them said it was worth it, not one how can NN justify this head in the clouds attitude to what is becoming an embarrassment as to why we are REALLY there......

  • Comment number 25.


    Who will the Afghan army fight - to keep its hand in? How long before there is a military coup?

    Will some dominant faction emerge, to ethnically cleanse the underdogs? "Many dead."

    Deja vu anyone?

  • Comment number 26.

    SPOT ON STEVIE (#24)

    I am pondering the alpha and omega of bin Laden - his Jesus-like life.

    Were the Russians tricked into their Afghanistan folly? Was bin Laden an American fiction from the beginning? The almost mystical death, and ritual 'dissolution' of bin Laden, fits well with an ephemeral hero.

    Also: one can't help recalling the bogus wars of 1984.

    I cringe when some Mendacious Puppet (MP) points to the 'Terror attacks' on UK soil, and uses them as a reason to be in Afghanistan. Nothing is as it seems with these professional deceivers; why should we accept their word? We are just as likely to be being 'false flagged'!

    WESTMINSTER POLITICS: The art of self deception wrapped in the craft of deceiving others FOR THEIR OWN GOOD.

  • Comment number 27.

    Following Paul Masons's report two experts were interviewed on their thoughts. Anne Pettifor made a statement that she was told by her Bank that an overdraft would cost her business account 28% interest. Either she has an unsound business or considered a risk by her Bank if this quoted rate was for a genuine overdraft facility. However it enabled the her to put the blame on Bankers for what she sees as a lack of any growth. Does she have a political bias ?

  • Comment number 28.

    '12. At 19:28 7th Mar 2012, Scotch Git wrote:
    JunkkMale, (and anyone else who might be interested), have you seen this?

    No, I had not, so thank you. Keeping up with the various ITiot variables is a losing battle of mine (noting italics are on the BBC gleaned not by a triangle bracketed (tried using it, but of course the inevitable happened) 'i' but 'em' for some reason, which may be covered on more thorough reading), but I do like a good stylistic flourish if it can be applied.

    "Following Paul Masons's report two experts were interviewed"

    That should surely read.. 'two other experts...", as all we are served are experts, if market rate pontification from on high via The Editors is to be believed*. Albeit with little clue as to what aspect of expertise led to their selection, or employment. Not to mention (for it rarely is)... other motivations.

    With the benefit of hindsight I have become wary of 'they are not lending, the tinkers' stories in the media when, as I recall, quite a lot our short-term memory loss economic experts have pushed to the back of mind, and their reporting, was surely shunting good money at bad risks?


    'That's because our audiences trust us and our specialist journalists like Nick Robinson, Stephanie Flanders, Robert Peston, Hugh Pym and Mark Easton. When stories are complex, highly charged and politicised, audiences rely on our specialists to give them context, assess evidence and test opinions without fear or favour.'

    There's also some stuff on holding the powerful to account. Less on which ones, when, and who not... and why.

    Might I make a suggestion on one that seems spared the full 'questions are being asked, a row has developed...' monty thus far.. in some quarters.. for some reason...

  • Comment number 29.

    THE 1% - THE 99% - AND THE 28% (#27)

    It was odd that Outstanding Jeremy let that "28%" go. It was not unlike the infamous "45 minutes" claim. Was it let lie (!) for EDGY purposes? Is media corrupt?

    Pope - bears - etc . . .

  • Comment number 30.

    Seems I may have to get up to speed on this 'ere 'Mansion Tax', being this government's grasp of numbers and fairness are on par with all others, if ±£40k being roughly the same as ±£80k in child benefit terms is any guide.

    Our family lives in a nice, big house.

    One reason is it is big is that it used to also house my Mum, who I spent the last decade looking after. Sparing HMG a fair whack and not helping my career pot much in the process.

    The reason it is nice is because in looking after her I had to be here, and beyond a bit of this and that on t'internet there was not much else to do bar add value to it.

    So getting zapped for creating an asset by my own labours that those who like taking stuff they can grab 'cos it's easy will not be welcome.

    Especially when it's the index-linked brigade doing the grabbing, supported vocally by the 'pay-via-production-company' media types in the expensive seats.

  • Comment number 31.

    Obama's impersonator dies...maybe he knew too much.

    Barrie wrote:
    "I cringe when some Mendacious Puppet (MP) points to the 'Terror attacks' on UK soil, and uses them as a reason to be in Afghanistan. Nothing is as it seems with these professional deceivers; why should we accept their word? We are just as likely to be being 'false flagged!'.."

    Difference there is Barrie is, we know what they are doing now, we are familiar with their MO, we see it now..we are awake. We are not the lone voices anymore Barrie with verbal pea shooters as our only weapons of choice but collectively we expose the con for what it is.. but why we bother watching newsnight I'll never know..habit I suppose.

    As for solutions to terror on the mainland..shut down all the mosques, re-avaluate what kind of society we do want...I reckon thats cheaper than waging war on some far away foreign desert. More people die from bee stings than they do from terrorism anyways -well thats the stats - maybe we should just shut down the bee farms..ah well, we have options barrie..we have options. Lets just see how the wind blows and what picks up eh.

  • Comment number 32.

    The cannon fodder turkey shoot that is Afghanistan continues. And another horrible, tragic murder in the name of... not too sure what.

    I wish I had an answer to the future, but there seems some denial on the facts, and inevitable legacies of the past.

    Not quite the same, but I am unsure if, when HMS Hood was sunk, the entire media estate and some concerned citizens at suddenly went 'How awful... time to bail'.

    Things have happened, are in motion and not looking to great for the future to make that simplistic knee-jerk seem less than viable, at least in the terms outlined.

    And I am unsure those that are fighting, or the memories of those who have died, are best served by presuming that in shooting wars folk don't get killed or maimed, and if that happens you tell the guys doing it that doing so in a numbers-heavy manner is a great way to get all involved to give up on the spot.

    Maybe it's which member of the public who gets asked, or not?

    All I know is that laying a booby trap does not seem that tricky (given supplies and skill sets on tap from helpful experts), or 'audacious'. And a big one succeeding is just a matter of volume and luck. So admiring terms for cowardly assassins to me errs on the wrong kind of propaganda, no matter if it is meant to push a desired result.

    So various blondes (today is Women's Day so the logic is all women casts) emoting to the teleprompter on matters military that I think they know sod-all about, with guests mainly chosen for heat over light, rather trivialises things still further.. IMHO.

  • Comment number 33.

  • Comment number 34.

    HEARTENED (#31)

    You have made a very sound point Kev. I shall now polish my "Put In Boot" (no connection with Puss in Boots).

    In passing - might Outstanding Jeremy know more than he is telling? The self-hugging has reached new intensity - watch out for the rocking!

  • Comment number 35.


    Did anyone ever pay for the hole, or was it TOO BIG TO FILL?


  • Comment number 36.

    @ Stevie #24 - Having just watched the debate on iPlayer, surely it was well balanced. We already know the vast majority of the public want the soldiers back in the UK - by having Dernie et al on, none of them wanted to see the sacrifices of the soldiers made in vein.....

    I hope Johnson's view of the economy does happen. Note, although banks in this country give about 0.3% interest rates, countries such as India give interest rates of 9.5%..........

  • Comment number 37.

    31. At 09:42 8th Mar 2012, kevseywevsey wrote: "As for solutions to terror on the mainland..shut down all the mosques, re-avaluate what kind of society we do want...I reckon thats cheaper than waging war on some far away foreign desert." You'll get the Human Rights mob after you!!!!

  • Comment number 38.

    '33. At 09:54 8th Mar 2012, NollyPrott wrote:

    Next month I am in an expo, and Young Mr. 'You're All Doing Very Well" Cable will be whisked past.

    I might ask him if this was ever discussed with Mr. Huhne and other CabCols before the latest left hand, really left hand special was trotted out?

    Or, you can pitch directly...

  • Comment number 39.

    what kind of afghanistan we want to leave?


    talk about writing chqs your country can't cash. We should be more worried what country afghanistan will leave us. We have no power to affect anything in afghanistan. The usa will determine what happens. We are there for vanity. Pakistan has won.

  • Comment number 40.

    FEUDAL WARS (#39)

    HomSap lost half the plot when he left the trees and the other half when he planted the first seed, on the way to farming (an act of CONTROL).

    I have concluded that the prime imperative of the newborn is CONTROL. It is rarely - if ever - fully satisfied. In the most assailed individuals, it gives us bullying and bulimia and in adults a tendency to take CONTROLLING jobs - such as politics. But the NEED is never assuaged, so what can the poor (in spirit) cipher, who becomes PM, do? NO OPTION IS RULED OUT! Is not KILLING A LOT OF PEOPLE the ultimate proof that you are a god? THE ULTIMATE IN CONTROL - LIFE AND DEATH.

  • Comment number 41.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 42.

  • Comment number 43.

    Might one ask, very quietly, in the spirit of 'questions being asked' and holding power to account, how the BBC comes to be told by one of the perpetrators 'how proud they were' of the attack?

    There are sources who say...'But I am told by sources at..'

    ..and there are 'sources' I am unsure deserve being rushed to promote.

    This scoop lark seems to be straying into very dark territory.

  • Comment number 44.

    It is from here, one presumes:

    "The Taliban told the BBC that they had carried out the attack and were "very proud of it".

    I remain intrigued at the circumstances by which 'The Taliban' came to tell the BBC this, and how it was substantiated.

    Or how this, at best poorly sourced and identified quote came to be rushed out in this manner, at this early stage in the investigation and follow-up to the incident, such that it has already become established in the media?

    Does the BBC really want to be associated with this phrase at this juncture in the news gathering and verifying cycle?

  • Comment number 45.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 46.

    Syria: The Western Deception Over Regime Change Unravels. NATO Prepares for All Out War

  • Comment number 47.


    Hi Lizzy. If only I were a believer! I would see the Devil's hand in The Age of Perversity. That infuriating mantra: "You can't turn the clock back" plus the shibboleth that deploring the present, means you are fooled by "Golden Age" dreams; finally topped off by a pathetic elision of "change" with "progress", and you have the juvenile, simplistic Westminster Vision.


    Nuff sed


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