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Thursday 19 May 2011

Sarah McDermott | 11:55 UK time, Thursday, 19 May 2011

We learned today that the Coalition has decided against introducing a Privacy Act to address concerns about injunctions, and that hot topic of discussion, super injunctions.

The decision became known on the day that an order granting anonymity to ex-Royal Bank of Scotland boss Sir Fred Goodwin was lifted at the High Court.

The lifting was triggered by House of Lords member Lord Stoneham using parliamentary privilege to reveal details of the gag order to peers.

Tonight will debate whether this is a good day for freedom of speech or a bad day for human rights with the man who forced the move, Lord Stoneham, with a former judge who has imposed injunctions and with Max Mosley who has been pushing for a tightening of the law to protect individuals' privacy.

Mark Urban will be giving us his thoughts on President Barack Obama's speech on the Arab Spring and we will be hearing from Middle East Quartet representative Tony Blair.

Tim Whewell reports from Cairo on how recent upheavals have upset all the old certainties in the region and how Egypt's approach to Israel, the peace process and regional alliances has changed.

And following the row over Justice Secretary Ken Clark's remarks about rape yesterday, Liz MacKean will be considering if the law needs to take a completely different approach to the crime.

And we will discuss whether Mr Clarke was right to say there are different types of rape with Deborah Orr who says there are and a rape victim counsellor who says he is wrong.

All that with Gavin Esler at 10.30pm.


  • Comment number 1.


    'Law' cannot hope to cope with society as now configured. It attracts the type of mind that finds justice a messy concept. It follows that injustice is, and will be, the norm.

  • Comment number 2.

  • Comment number 3.

    Its amazing how they are railroading people on disability benefits; I have a friend who had home care and it was decided because she wasn't eating enough that she must be making her own meals so her carers were withdrawn then tomorrow she was meant to go to an assessment in person regarding her benefits as far as I know at the moment she is in intensive care. Another one has two glass eyes and was called to an eye test, I suggested they post the eyes to them for the test .


    More burnt toast news

  • Comment number 4.

    'Following the row over Justice Secretary Ken Clark's remarks about rape yesterday, here's a rather more informed series of insights, if only in the comments sections to BBC faux outrage stirring 'row' merchants and their willing, oppurtunistic interviewees on producer iPhone speed dial or hanging from the rafters in the green rooms... (66. is interesting) (closed now, and quickly. And one is sure that this is not a voting system the BBC will be endorsing until, as always, it delivers the 'correct' result)

    One presumes the "picks" of Newsnight editors will be a tad different.

    The guests invited to comment however, will likely be all too predictable.

    Even BBC groupie regulars are conceding the cause of sensible debate was and is being made a mockery of in the name of either pathetic ratings addiction or impartiality-busting tribalism.

  • Comment number 5.


    One thing is sure: the 9/11 Lie will not feature. While a range of professionals, in USA, demand a proper enquiry, Obama has instructed: "Do not question 9/11", with the inference it is un-American, unpatriotic and it insults the dead.

    If only Andrew Marr could say: "Mr President, you are either with the truth, or with the perpetrators."

    Who gags the BBC? Now THERE'S A QUESTION.

  • Comment number 6.

    At 12:58 19th May 2011, barriesingleton wrote:


    Can you post a precis flicks3? I like my information straight."

    Those guys need some dosh and are fishing - the hook is most likely to be the truth in a sea of delusion.

  • Comment number 7.

    The Brighton Green Party were featured in The Daily Politics today outlining their key objectives including waste food recycling and meat free Mondays in all council establishments.

    Waste food recycling is just another pointless Green Scam. Its patently obvious than any such service is not going to save one single ounce of CO2 by the time you take into account the fuel used for regular collection. It would appear that household waste recycling is nothing more than forcing all council taxpayers to pay the equivalent of a medieval religious indulgence in order to espouse the guilt of the profligate who throw loads of food away in a world full of the starving millions. But then being " environmental group prescribed " alleged eco friendly has now become a " quasi-religion " in itself over the past 30 years.

    Likewise Meat Free Mondays, a " Corporate Nazi " inspired attack on small hill farmers in the hope that loss of market will induce their Corporate Ethnic Cleansing. We all know the wealthy green funders want to move into the country to avoid the anarchy in towns when the power cuts start due to reliance on wind farms.

  • Comment number 8.

    can super injunctions be used to hide malpractice for personal profit?

    anyone read the andrew marr stuff in prvate eye. asking gordon if he took pills looks indefensible now?

  • Comment number 9.


    "the hook is most likely to be the truth in a sea of delusion." Um - anything like a mousetrap in a bran tub?

  • Comment number 10.

    #4: "Even BBC groupie regulars are conceding the cause of sensible debate was and is being made a mockery of in the name of either pathetic ratings addiction or impartiality-busting tribalism."

    in the short-term. What will be more interesting is how it pans out once the hysterics burn themselves out, and sensible discussion takes over the debate.

    btw, i wonder if Ms Greer would also agree with the proposition "all women are potential victims of rape", if she still believes that "all men are potential rapists"? I have a feeling die-hard feminists would throw shoes at any man claiming such a thing... talking of which:

    the Shoe-Throwing continues!:

    cuts to services are "declared unlawful". No wonder the politicians are seeking greater control over the Judiciary.
    om[b]g, a press release by the US i completely agree with!!! :o

    deforestation in Brazil growing alarmingly:

    what they need is an 'agricultural revolution' that switches ownership and control back to the farming communities - no doubt the vast majority of this deforestation has been done by the large agri-business corporations in Brazil. Funny the communists support this - i suspect they could be unrepentant old-leninist-bolsheviks!

    aushwitz gets its sign back:

    the *REASON for having human rights, Egypt:

    those in the UK who are maligning Human Rights should be very careful what they are throwing away.

    lolz. :)

    finally, congrats to Stefani Gaga for the Forbes list. :D

  • Comment number 11.

    #7: i'm glad the Arctic has completely ignored the GW argument, and is still sitting there as firmly and thick as it has ever been... oh wait.

    and the waste food recycling is to both create organic compost, and also reduce land-fill waste. Yes, it might require more energy to pick it up, but for centuries such moves were an integral part of every UK community. Farmers need compost - we throw it into the ground, and create artificial compost from scarce and expensive oil. Doesn't make sense, does it?

    and had the politicians followed the course of building sustainable energy like all of our competitors (even including the US!), then the energy we still have available would go further. Of course, instead they just blustered and argued, sold-off the nuclear-plant construction company to a kkkorporate, THEN decided to "invest" in nuclear. After waiting so long to finally get around the problem the privatised utilities have NOT invested sufficiently for the future - WHAT A SHAME the Tories privatised the energy utils, so the UK just became a cash-cow for the kkorporates, instead of a viable economy investing in its future. Now we are hearing MORE demands for privatisation - DESPITE the complete failure of the last 30years of privatisation to work as claimed.

    communities will benefit tremendously from having locally owned, locally repairable energy sources such as turbines, i note more and more that the opposition to such measures are coming from Russia Today, with Russia's vested interest in preventing the UK from achieving energy security, and Alex Jones, - enough said.

  • Comment number 12.

    Mork #11

    People would benefit a whole lot more if all their waste went into a local incinerator to produce electric, you could even get to a stage where you were paid 10p for every scrap tyre you took in. Local waste incinerators have the potential to reduce the local council tax or at least release money to be spent on worthwhile policies. Probably the end of any fly tipping problems as well, but the Green Party apparently want to keep the current energy providers virtual cartel ?

  • Comment number 13.


    Obama's Middle East speech:

    "Across the region, we intend to provide assistance to civil society, including those that may not be officially sanctioned, and who speak uncomfortable truths."

    But let no one speak uncomfortable truth on home soil:

    UK bombs Johnnie Foreigner but feather-beds him here, and America stifles home truths but encourages distant JF ones.


  • Comment number 14.

    GREATER LOVE HATH NO OBAMA (#13 additional)

    Obama wants to uplift every oppressed soul. What a saint! He will be giving America back to its owners (whom he forgot to mention in his reprise of history, in his inaugural speech) if he goes on brotherly-loving like this.

  • Comment number 15.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 16.

    Except in the case of aluminum cans recycling its totally pointless, grinding glass down using fossil fuel to turn it into sand which can be dug out of the ground easy with actual wildfowl etc environmental advantage in the long run. The green party like to pretend that all the plastic exported to China is recycled, when in actual fact its burned in a most environmentally unfriendly way. I believe that there is technology available to strip out the aluminum from household waste which could be done prior to incineration, but steel is easy to recover from the ash with magnets. Considering that at least 60% of the household waste could provide useful fuel, ( especially the plastic packaging and carrier bags the eco-fascists so despise ) it would be foolish not to incinerate.

    And Mork, please don't make your self look so stupid by basing today's incinerators with flue gas scrubbing using worn out 1980s pollution statistics. We are a mile and a half down wind burning toxic print waste solvents, tyres and even BSE meat and bone meal at our local cement works with no environmental problems. The plant is fitted with one of the latest flue gas scrubbers, which I and others fought to get in the mid 1990s. There have been no pollution problems since then, and it turns out that even the kiln ash which some environmentalists once attempted to portray was deadly toxic is now being sold to farmers as fertiliser with good results and big demand.

  • Comment number 17.

  • Comment number 18.

  • Comment number 19.

  • Comment number 20.

    Rape is in the news again and the usual misleading statistics and who should be apportioned blame are being bandied about, so I'd like to offer some points that I presume/hope I'm not the first to make.

    It is confusing how one can argue against the idea of rape defendants gaining anonymity, when the policy of naming all men completely cripples the policy of encouraging victims to come forward.

    One the one hand you wish all victims to report their rape, but, on the other, you inform all women, by a logical inference from the policy of naming the defendants, that they needn't do so: their attacker is sure to rape again, or, undoubtedly, will have raped others, so others will come forward, the man's identity will then be revealed and, as a consequence, you can come forward, if you wish. If every victim comes forward, there isn't any need to trawl for other victims, is there?

    [cont. below]

  • Comment number 21.

    It appears that the state wants women to be both vocal and silent, effectively granting rapists carte blanche, and compounding women's profound anguish with the turmoil of not knowing what to do. It also isn't helped, of course, by women's groups, who proclaim to act in the women's best interests, but repeat the contradictory calls: you must come forward; look - 6% - what's the point in coming forward?

    Both Left and Right have a lot to answer for: the Left for having played a central role in the creation of these contradictory policies; and the Right for not trying harder to overcome the might of the mainstream media's and women's groups' ill-informed views. Both have produced rape policies that are a mess.

    Victims have translated the policy of naming the defendant as a predication on women not coming forward, producing the opposite effect to the one that everyone desires.

    [cont. below]

  • Comment number 22.

    6% isn't the figure; it's >50%. 6% refers to the percentage of women, whose allegations of rape result in convictions; >50% refers to the conviction rate for those who are sent for trial - the type of figure that constitutes other crime statistics.

    So few cases reach court because of the reasons above: women, in a whirlwind of confusion and doubt, wait too long before reporting their ordeal, by which time the evidence is lost. Rape, unlike almost every other crime, is one where the evidence for it resides almost entirely on the body and where its degradation rapidly diminishes its effectiveness.

    I've had to post this in three sections, as the blog refuses to co-operate when it's in one section. Maybe I've breached a 'punctuation' rule.

  • Comment number 23.

    Brossen -

    - some help, please.

    Is the government scheme that offers free solar panels in exchange for taking half the electricity generated (the other half being free to the householder) a good deal?? What's the catch?

  • Comment number 24.

    #22 Struggling
    “Rape, unlike almost every other crime, is one where the evidence for it resides almost entirely on the body and where its degradation rapidly diminishes its effectiveness.”

    Unfortunately, the flaw in your statement is that the evidence you speak of, in some cases, will merely be evidence of sexual activity. Rape depends on the proof of consent or rather lack of. And as the crime statistically least likely to have witnesses, and as much as campaigners do not wish to admit it, one that has ‘degrees’ and degrees of complicity/coercion, proof positive of ‘rape’ is very hard to find.

    Which is why I support the individual taking sensible precautions with the body as one would take with your home, your car, your wallet or mobile phone.
    Oh, and Btw, Mademoiselle H (#56 Wednesday) is far too sweeping and generalised. I do not for one moment believe that every accused rapist in court states it was the woman’s fault any more than I believe that every woman who cries ‘rape’ is always telling the whole truth. It’s a grimy grey mess and I can’t see it getting any better, sadly.

  • Comment number 25.

    Obama's proposal to go back to the 1968 borders as the basis for a Palestinian/Israeli settlement is very welcome.

    However I see it as a much more fundamental shift than it appears. The UN Resolutions calling for this have been quietly forgotten and the US has vetoed most resolutions ever since, so the Zionist politicians have taken thji as a green light for the land grab in the West Bank and Jerusalem from the USA.

    In calling for the 1968 borders Obama is signalling the end of the blank cheque to Israel and starting the process of disengagement by the US in bankrolling and arming the Israelis, which in the end will force them to the negotiating table.

    With their economy under massive pressure and their neighbours moving towards democracy, the rightwing in Israel will rapidly run out of options.

    The born-again Christian fundamentalists in the USA believe that the re-establishment of a Jewish state will presage the second coming of Christ and the end of the world, so they support the Zionist dream of rebuilding the Kingdom of David. Obama is pulling the plug on this madness and we should support him as much as we can.

  • Comment number 26.

    '10. At 17:24 19th May 2011, Mindys_Housemate - What will be more interesting is how it pans out once the hysterics burn themselves out, and sensible discussion takes over the debate. '


    All of course aided by impartial sharing of information to aid such discussions.

    'NHS staff have been telling me...' And the public in turn get told.... if perhaps not as fully as may be hoped to appreciate full context.

  • Comment number 27.

    So Strauss-Kahn was not granted bail sent to a hell hole of a prison less than one week later he resigns from the IMF and hey presto he gets bail .

    Not only is this about his special drawing rights SDR's plan and going easy on these trashed countries but its sending a message - The US are in control and the $ remains the reserve currency. Are we are seeing the beginnings of a move to more extreme measures (Pakistan) and extreme manipulations (commodities, High frequency trading ) ?

  • Comment number 28.

    "they should be very careful what they are throwing away."

    and take

    "sensible precautions with the body"

    who could argue with that? more tea anyone?

  • Comment number 29.

    #25 rb

    'In calling for the 1968 borders Obama is signalling the end of the blank cheque to Israel and starting the process of disengagement by the US in bankrolling and arming the Israelis, which in the end will force them to the negotiating table.'

    You are deluded!

    Judge them by their actions, not by their rhetoric.

  • Comment number 30.

    Closing in ? Maybe another psyop simmering away somewhere ?

  • Comment number 31.

    "But Ms Merkel's office refused to confirm speculation that Germany would throw its weight behind French finance minister Christine Lagarde, who has emerged as the frontrunner since the arrest last Saturday of Mr Strauss-Kahn, who denies all the charges."

    Christine Lagarde -

    well well well

    Remember Kirsty's first interview with her this year (I think) smug with confidence and patronizing Kirsty - it was unreal, and then in the studio with Osborne a few days before Kahns shocking take down and trashing by MSM . Two finance ministers in the NN studio was suspicious to me and at the time I just switched off on sight of them. First NN camera shot - Lagarde and Osborne and you could smell a rat.

  • Comment number 32.

    30. Even if one or two go down, enough will live to see another deal; maybe in SAmerica, maybe in Russia, maybe in China, maybe in Africa, maybe in all four.

  • Comment number 33.

    #31 and btw I dont mean Kirsty was smug and patronizing - it was the other way round given the 'debt' circumstance rather breath taking and told me something was cooking up .

  • Comment number 34.

    why is tony still envoy given he is a manifest failure? Given he was pro israeli should the next envoy be pro palestinian?

  • Comment number 35.

    #23 Wappaho

    That's a new one on me, as far as I understand it the government will only give you a loan to be paid back via your energy bill, no free anything on the table, just excuses to trick you into getting into debt !

  • Comment number 36.

    #34 jc

    I wonder if the the new IMF boss will be Jewish?

  • Comment number 37.

    My money is on John Lipsky (acting IMF CEO) taking over from DS-K.

    Read the last line of his Wiki listing.

  • Comment number 38.

    PLATO'S CAVE (#25)

    Is it possible all we get to see is an Obama-shadow in mutual posturing with a Netanyahu-shadow? While the money flows, the UN resolutions gather dust, and Israel's grip on the land tightens, reality is outside the cave.

  • Comment number 39.

    I do hope the interview will ask a few pertinent questions of Obama like what happened to his promises made on the White House steps about withdrawl from Iraq and Afghanistan and closing down Guantanamo but each American president has to do what big business and corporate interests in America says...why should this President be any different?

  • Comment number 40.


    And the free, democratic peoples of USA and UK will rise up and demand the bombing of any despot who oppresses the indigene. Lead by example Mr Obama:


  • Comment number 41.

    'And we will discuss whether Mr Clarke was right to say there are different types of rape '

    Took me a while to appreciate the demand for semantic subtlety these days inherent in that simple sentence.

    'Right' as in 'correct' in a legal, descriptive, explanatory sense?

    Or 'right' in a politician weaseling, avoiding unleashing the PC hounds of hell on a gaffe-seeking, ratings-addicted media editors' sense?

    Seems Mr. Milliband was pretty clear. Then... wasn't.


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