Talk about Newsnight

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Friday, 9 February, 2007

  • Newsnight
  • 9 Feb 07, 05:27 PM

two_turkeys_203.jpgIs bird flu in the food chain? Evidence on who may have been behind Litvinenko murder; and more information on the controversial King Fahad School.

Comment on Friday's programme.

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  • 1.
  • At 10:40 PM on 09 Feb 2007,
  • Terri Whelan wrote:

Question: Does Gavin Esler have turkeys on his tie tonight?

  • 2.
  • At 10:48 PM on 09 Feb 2007,
  • Sue Atkins wrote:

Bernard Mathews is portrayed as a 'british' company. I am not surprised that they have a cover company in hungary and that it turns out that there are links to the bird flu outbreak in the uk.
It does not take a genius to work out that the Bernard mathews farm could not possibly produce all the turkey, meats and hams that are for sale and require processing in the bernard mathews name.
In my opinion Most of the meats used by the Bernard Mathews company will have been imported and I am sure it is not the only food company that sells its britishness but most of the production is outside the UK

  • 3.
  • At 10:52 PM on 09 Feb 2007,
  • williams wrote:

Re the Turkey scare why was that lady cut off. What are you trying to cover up? is there a camera watching you as well ?

  • 4.
  • At 10:54 PM on 09 Feb 2007,
  • Martin Thomas wrote:

Bird Flu - this is endemic in Thailand - how many thousands of tonnes of chicken is imported from Thailand each year? We have probably all eaten chicken which has come from infected flocks.

  • 5.
  • At 11:01 PM on 09 Feb 2007,
  • Michael wrote:

Has Britain become so densely populated that we now need to import turkey meat by truck from Hungary and gas by pipeline from Russia? It could all become rather unhealthy and unreliable for us.

RE the follow up to the Islamic school story. Do some more digging Newsnight.This is only one school - but these books are in every school in SAudi Arabia, and are probably used in every school around the world that is supported by Saudi Arabia.

Here you are:


What does the Quran really say : Please refer :

Where are the reference to Monkeys and Pigs as suggested in Newsnight.

Unfortunately, the Wahabis also known as Salafis from Saudi Arabia have been spreading hate for a long time aided by their huge finances.

And the West have been supporting them.

  • 8.
  • At 12:54 AM on 10 Feb 2007,
  • Alan C wrote:

#5 AZ______

To find the references in the Koran try searching for "apes" OR "swine"

The verse in the Koran isn't really the problem; it is the way this verse is used to dehumanise the infidel. This slur is repeated ad nauseam in Friday sermons, in primary school teaching, on television shows and in scholarly discussions.

  • 9.
  • At 09:27 AM on 10 Feb 2007,
  • Brian Kelly wrote:

A question....? If uncooked infected(if proven)Hungarian BM turkey meat is languishing on supermarket shelves?could this contaminate other meats ,ie mince which may be fed to animals raw..thus introducing the virus to the pet & via faeces..the wild animal chain? We understand the Hungarian connection, if any, will not be known until next Tuesday... a week + is a long time with viruses!

  • 10.
  • At 06:09 PM on 10 Feb 2007,
  • Andy Gill wrote:

Re: The King Fahad School.

Congratulations again to Newsnight for revealing more about the appalling teaching material in the King Fahad school. To start with, the government should demnad an apology from the Saudi ambassador.

But this is not an isolated case. This kind of intolerance is unfortunately endemic in the Muslim community, and is causing immense damage to British society. Teachers who infect innocent children with such views should be deported.

  • 11.
  • At 08:12 PM on 10 Feb 2007,
  • Frank Hudson wrote:

After several failed attempts I'll try again.
The easiest way to establish the truth in this matter is to arrange an independently-chaired group or class session of the younger children at the Fahad School and without resorting to skullduggery present them with straightforward questions relating to the 'offending' passages to see what, if any, answers they come up with.

Whilst it won't establish where the teaching took place - if in fact it did - i.e. in the home, at school or elsewhere, it will clearly indicate whether or not they have been taught what the Head of the school says they haven't.

Any parents objecting to such a session should be asked to give reasons why, if they have clear consciences.

  • 12.
  • At 12:15 AM on 11 Feb 2007,
  • Hugh Waldock wrote:

When the Head Teacher of the King Fahed School was on Newsnight the other night, she mentioned, which incidentally Jeremy Paxman totally chose to ignore that these remarks quotations were taken out of context.

According to your reporting it was based upon a text by an early muslim scholar.

A: Early Christian scholars said roughly the similar things about early muslim society, and actively fought against them on religious groud in the crusades.
Hence such a reaction by an early scholar is not at all surprising.

B: We don´t know what the wider debate surrounding this text was. Being a teacher myself these questions about the text could have been "gist questions" for a wider debate on morality concearning Jews and Christians. The next question could easily have been something like : "Are these derogatory remarks about Jews and Christians justified in the modern world" or "how far can we apply traditional religous teachings in a modern secualar society?", we simply don´t know.

C: Just becuase we study and try to understand the work of someone like Hitler from a variety of original and secondary sources does not mean we are being taught to be Skinheads. I´m sorry but not enough information has been given to the public in order that we can make a balenced judgement on this.

D: We could actively be involved now in turning nice people against us.

E: Christians were and sometimes are taught that they will burn in hell, I don´t see why the reference to it is any different in a muslim context

This is most likley to be a witch hunt until more evidence becomes available.

  • 13.
  • At 12:41 AM on 11 Feb 2007,
  • Hugh Waldock wrote:

In support of my arguement in my last post, these materials were given to newsnight either directly or inderectly by a disgruntled employee. Now this speaks wonders to me. He could be totally leading you guys up the garden path for his own aims.

If these materials really were racist which I doubt very much that they are, then we shouldn´t be selling the Saudis warplanes becuase their children are being taught this at school and will according to newsnight become racists in the future.

I think the whole thing is a farce and absurd. I teach billingually in German and English every day, and because of the differences in Grammar some things simply don´t translate, as was mentioned. I don´t even believe in teaching lists of single words or phrases as vocabulary becuase you can´t understand them without context, becuase the whole discourse alters and effects the meanings of texts, now you tell me how we are supposed to close a school down on the basis of 2 lines of text taken out of context. I think you should all be ashamed of yourselves for hyping this up.


  • 14.
  • At 01:30 AM on 11 Feb 2007,
  • Hugh Waldock wrote:

I do apologise for my previous comment about the last programme.

There does appear to be some racist comments being made in the textbooks.

  • 15.
  • At 01:59 AM on 11 Feb 2007,
  • Hugh Waldock wrote:

It seemed to me to be extraordinary that anyone would even contemplate poisoning young minds with such things, but I don´t deny it on the evidence of the second programme they are. There´s is greed in our society but I don´t think that being Christian has anything to do with it, quite the opposite in fact, true Christians aren´t normally greedy and are taught to have a social conscience.

What it does show is a search for an identity, an independence from socialism, captitalism, Christian values and Jewish values which according to many sources on the net is a key factor in islamic fundamentalism. Now I think we should keep as much out of each others affairs as possible. It just seems very alien that caring about people is not top priority for a developed nation rather than preaching hate.

  • 16.
  • At 02:25 PM on 11 Feb 2007,
  • Saira wrote:

Firstly, the director of the school is said to have changed her position COMPLETELY, whereas this is blatantly not the case. In the midst of being pummelled by Paxman to produce a sensationally blunt refusal to remove the books, she had clearly attempted to explain that some parts were useful and could not be taken offensively. The next day, she decided to remove parts that had been taken offensively, still keeping the rest. How is this backtracking? If anything this should be satisfactory...?!

Secondly, the extracts that allegedly called Jews and Christions monkeys and pigs WERE actually taken out of context. When telling a story, if you just say "Goldilocks was a burglar", this hardly gets the message across accurately. SOME Jews and Christians, with whom present day Jews and Christians would probably not want to associate themselves, many years ago, were turned into monkeys and pigs. It does not say present day Jews and Christians are animals.

Thirdly, the previous program complained that the books claimed everyone but Muslims would go to hellfire. Why would Jews and Christians care, especially if the only way to heaven is through Jesus, according to the Bible?

And finally, what does do Newsnight presenters stand to gain from attacking Dr Alyusuf incessently and merely asking Ms Ellmen to nod along and express disgust - and then Gavin Estler slipping in another story about an Islamic school, creating an illusion of an endemic problem, with the feeble disclaimer, "on a completely separate note"?

This is an incredibly small-scale issue being blown way out of proportion.

  • 17.
  • At 05:04 PM on 11 Feb 2007,
  • vikingar wrote:

Well more appeasement & apologies above (esp several Hugh Waldock spirited efforts) for the availability of racist materials & promotion of such within a British sanctioned educational facility, The King Fahad School [1]

And seemingly objecting to the idea that we the 'pigs' & 'monkeys' whose society is based on 'worthless' religions (98%) should not speak up about this non indigenous & radicalising & racist material being taught in a British School (from a community of 2% population)


Lets represent the alleged questions & replace Jew/Christian with MUSLIM / ISLAM in the answers ... what reaction would it obtain & what acquisitions:

- "give examples of worthless religions... such as Islam, idol worship and others" [2]

- "Muslims are pigs, Muslims are monkeys"


Q. why is a British School * following a religious Saudi Curriculum ** ?

* supposedly benefiting from curriculum of 1st world progressive & democratic society in 21st Century

** 3rd world, non progressive & non democratic society, operating under a repressive religious dictates from 14th Century

What next, we have to adopt a similar School v Emergency Services debacle of intervention by 'mutaween' Saudis Religious Police [3]

Q. which type of people send their children to King Fahad School? ***

*** past & present, any interesting positions, reputation, occupations

These latest demonstrations of entrenched cultural Faux Paux emanating from Muslim communities/institutions in the United Kingdom, are just another blindingly obvious reminder that these sub cultures based on Islam & Muslims Communities are badly in need of reform, if they are too have a peaceful & prosperous future in this nation.

Lets hope the distinct minority of British Muslims who have made the effort are not put off by the intransigence of the majority who have not made similar efforts.

Either way British Society is not content to sit by & do nothing ****

**** except those still trying to prop up the failed notion of multiculturalism … "LA LA LA there's nothing wrong … there's nothing wrong"




Ref #17

Q. which type of people send their children to King Fahad School?

err hhrrrmm ….

According to The Sunday Times [1] dear old Abu Hamza the jailed radical Islamic Cleric sends at least 2 of his girls * to The King Fahad School

* approx £9,000 p.a. in fees. Meantime, "Hamza, jailed for seven years in February on charges of race hate and inciting murder, must now pay back legal costs of £1,088,944. The decision came after the Legal Services Commission, which grants legal aid, began an investigation into Hamza's finances centring on the acquisition of a £220,000 house in west London." [2]

Come on … when will this radical school & radical Hamza get a break (freezes… when … over … hell)


The Guardian lists quite a few allegations from Colin Cook (Islamic convert) about this school: [3]

Teaching materials used at the King Fahd school in Acton, west London, translated from Arabic for an unfair dismissal claim against the school:

- Jews "engage in witchcraft and sorcery and obey Satan"
- invite pupils to "name some repugnant characteristics of Jews"
- and to give examples of worthless religions, such as Judaism and Christianity.
- alleged pupils had been heard saying they wanted to kill Americans, that 9/11 was good, and that Osama bin Laden was a hero.

"The school was originally set up to educate the children but most of its 750 pupils are now British Muslims. It teaches Wahhabism, the dominant faith in Saudi Arabia, which is an extreme form of Islam that insists on a literal interpretation of the Qur'an"


Come on Liberal Lefties, lets have you apply your open ended ever encroaching RIGHT ON & PC values consistently to the burgeoning racist farce at The King Fahad School

btw - the King Fahad School is based in London

Q. has either London Mayor (Red Ken Livingstone) or his racist under the bed 'race advisor' Lee Jasper, uttered any commentary about these allegations of racism?

Nope, seemingly the only do 'racism' when it suits/meets there criteria/agenda i.e. BB variety [4]



[1] The Sunday Times 11th February 2007 (p13)

  • 19.
  • At 12:53 PM on 12 Feb 2007,
  • frederick rolfe wrote:

Test post.

  • 20.
  • At 08:05 AM on 13 Feb 2007,
  • Brian Kelly wrote:

Milliband did look rather shifty when asked about "the leak of a label!"...someone is telling porkies! or should that be turkeys!

Whatever, don't those vehicles travelling between Suffolk-Hungary-Suffolk present an even greater (unnecessary) risk!
I understood that any area in an exclusion zone, the less traffic(foot & vehicle) & goods entering & exiting site the better... we all know it makes sense.. except DEFRA,FSA & BM, it seems!
As an aside to the foregoing issues, I believe many consumers will have been put off purchasing FACTORY farming produce when they see the animal living conditions!

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