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HD Masters Conference Keynote Speech, 23 June 2009

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Danielle Nagler Danielle Nagler | 13:21 UK time, Tuesday, 23 June 2009

I thought some of you might be interested to read a speech I gave earlier today at the HD Masters Conference in London.

I hope you will recognise within it the extent to which your comments do inform some of my thinking around HD (and there's a specific reference to the blog at one point). You might also want particularly to look at the list of titles of programmes which are now working in HD and will deliver to BBC HD over the coming months (towards the end of the speech).

All the best

Given the collective insight and vision assembled here, I'm sure the ground swell of the HD revolution was apparent to all of you when you last met.

But it is just under a year since I took over as Head of BBC HD and I've found the events of the last twelve months dramatic. To see HD TV sets ranked alongside baked beans, olive oil and low energy light bulbs as the consumer goods that are bucking the recession is certainly not something I would have anticipated.

And I think that even more startling, and in the long-run more significant, is the proof from HD in the last year - beyond all reasonable doubt - that it is the new, mainstream television proposal.
Let me show you what I mean:
[Clip of Michael Macintyre Live at the Apollo that ends with him saying:
: ".....totally unprepared for HD - I don't even know what HD is..."]

When comedians choose to make jokes about a new technology, that can get that kind of reaction from a general audience, I think that is the strongest true indicator we can have that the UK really is HD-ready.

With more than nineteen million HD-ready sets sold, independent estimates suggest almost 45% of homes across the UK are now HD-ready. Connectivity has grown over 40% already this year, on top of the more than 60% growth clocked up in the second half of 2008. I think it is clear that the UK population is voting with its albeit squeezed wallets. This rate of growth is no doubt a relief to those who have invested in consumer technology and platforms. But it can feel somewhat dizzying to those of us working in broadcasting and production, a theme I want to return to later.

To put this growth rate in perspective, it's helpful to look at the development path of other consumer technologies in recent years. Let's take the PVR for example. Sky launched Sky Plus into the UK market in 2001. Around two thirds of their customer base - a little over 6 million households - now take it, and in the year and a half since Freeview Plus, became available, nearly one point five million units have been sold. "Plussing" content - be it Sky, Freeview, or anyone else may not have reached the English Dictionary, but we all know what it means. It has however taken 8 years of the technology being part of the mainstream to get to this point.
HD to my mind has more in common with the mobile phone texting revolution, where consumers pounced on what was originally conceived as a minority feature and shifted it to a defining technology almost overnight.

Of course the technological gestation and the agreement of HD standards has been lengthy. But we are only just into the third year of a real consumer offering, and look where we stand. HD plays into a basic desire for high quality television pictures. There may be a degree of complexity in explaining what HD is and how consumers can get it. But we know that once people engage with HD they view it simply as bigger, better, normal television.

Download Dan, the person behind the growth in on-demand video, is easy to identify. He's about 40, and probably in a relationship though with no children. He earns a reasonable living, has a fair amount of disposable income and in terms of what he watches, he knows what he likes. Certainly when it comes to BBC iPlayer he heads straight for the programmes he knows - Top Gear being the obvious one.

I can't paint you a similar picture of HD man, or woman, or child. Stereotypes are much trickier in the HD universe. That's because although the first wave of HD uptake, ably led by Sky, has been around their classic heavy-users, the HD audience has moved very rapidly towards simply everyone. Younger people buying an AV set up of their own for the first time are choosing to go HD. So too are many older viewers who have carefully looked after the cathode ray tube occupying a sizeable chunk of the living room. They are leapfrogging a generation of sets and set-top boxes to move straight into the HD world.

When that HD set is first connected up, any stunning picture will do. We know that not least because on New Year's Day morning the viewing figures for BBC HD showed a significant spike. The thing is, we weren't actually showing any programmes at that point, only channel promotional material - the increase in viewers was purely a result of people playing with sets that they had bought in the post-Christmas period, desperate to look at HD material.

Naturally enough, once that initial euphoria has evaporated, people become more specific and demanding about the kinds of programmes that they are looking to watch in HD - if you don't believe me, just take a look at any discussions on the BBC HD blog. Contrary to expectations - which suggest the great appetite in HD is for sport, for films, for jaw-dropping natural history - our research shows that what viewers want in HD are the programmes that they love to watch in SD.

Topping the list are documentaries, modern dramas, Saturday night family entertainment, and science and technology programmes, with soaps, news and comedies not far behind. This is what we might describe as the bread, butter and jam of everyday television, and ties in with what we are seeing in terms of programme performance on BBC HD. Nature's Great Events - the stunning natural history series shown earlier this year - did do very well.

But looking at the programmes attracting our biggest audiences, they include the Doctor Who Easter special, The Eurovision Song Contest, Robin Hood, slick contemporary drama Hustle, and the period soap, Larkrise to Candleford. Events like the Six Nations Rugby and the US Masters Golf feature in the list, but so too do the Antiques Roadshow, Who Do You Think You Are?, Friday Night with Jonathan Ross, and Live at the Apollo (from which you saw a small section earlier).

Over the last year on BBC HD we've tried to strengthen and to broaden the programme mix. There is still - of course - more work to do. But it is no coincidence that over the same time period we've seen audience growth of more than a hundred and twenty percent, to around 1.2 million viewers a month. As a broadcaster and producer all this is incredibly exciting. But we also find ourselves racing to keep up with an audience whose appetite for what we can offer in HD seems pretty insatiable.

In the early days we at the BBC, along with many others, I think believed that HD could do wonders in certain, limited areas. In series like Planet Earth it gave us views of the world that we had believed impossible, the clarity of image, even shot at a distance, allowing glimpses of animal behaviour which we could never hope to get close to physically. In sport, it meant for the first time that viewers at home could really see the state of the football pitch, or follow the golf ball through the air. In television drama, it allowed us to get the qualities of film to work for the small screen on TV drama budgets - the Kenneth Branagh detective drama Wallander screened a few months ago being just one, particularly striking example:

[Clip of Wallander]

But our audiences are telling us clearly that we can't box HD neatly into a limited number of genres. They instinctively recognise that HD can transform everything that we make for television. Let me demonstrate using this footage from the men's 100m final in Beijing last summer.

[Clip of last year's 100m final in Beijing]

Aside from recalling one of the truly great moments from last year captured in HD, the point I want to make from this is about the ability that HD has to transform the relationship between the viewer and the subject matter. The picture detail means that in that opening sequence as the athletes prepare we are able to see their intense focus. As the race gets underway, raw energy and power surge out of the screen, with no need for 3D assistance. And the emotion of the aftermath is real and gripping.

Television's promise has always been about bringing the world into the intimate space of a living room. HD takes that further and breaks down the barrier of the screen so that an audience can feel part of the event, can get even closer to the characters, can really be there. And of course that has implications that are profound, and thrilling, across every area of programming.

Television is an art form and HD offers us a new set of tools to create intense reality. In BBC HD we've spent the last year stretching and testing ourselves, pushing out the boundaries across children's programmes, sport, current affairs, documentaries, features, entertainment, comedy, and of course drama, experimenting with what HD can bring to new kinds of programming. Like everyone else we are learning as we go.

As the majority of you will recognise, the challenges around moving to HD are substantial. We are effectively asking the entire UK production base to make a transition from the tools with which they are familiar to a new suite of cameras and post production equipment which is at a less mature stage in its development, which can be less versatile and is certainly less forgiving of mistakes. We are asking them to do that at a time when the funding for television content is reducing, and we are asking production companies, resource providers, facilities owners, and freelancers to invest time, skill and money in a technology for which although it is growing, the audience and the immediate return to parts of the value chain remains limited.

Money is a big barrier - but it is not the only one. The concerns of on and off-screen talent are an issue. So is the need to re-evaluate sets, make-up, costumes. But most limiting for us has been the slow evolution of a camera line-up to allow us to push HD production out across the range of programmes we make. We cannot afford - nor would our programme-makers want - to reverse the self-shooting trend. It is only recently that we have been able to identify any camera which can deliver broadcast-quality HD and work in that sort of production set-up. We have been trialling the Sony EX One and Sony EX three over the last couple of months. See what you think:

[Clip of U2 at the BBC]

That sequence intercut shots from a Sony HD-Cam and the EX One.

We are still working through the issues around post-production workflow, and archiving - and indeed it is at the post-production stage in particular that the immaturity of HD can add complexity and time. But for us what this small camera can deliver is a breakthrough, allowing us to consider the migration of a much, much wider range of BBC programming than has previously been possible. We are now eagerly anticipating the arrival of a light-weight shoulder-mounted camera from Panasonic promised for later this year.

Pioneering in these kind of circumstances is precisely what the licence fee funds the BBC to do. That is why we are determinedly pushing ahead and will continue to do so. Last year 23% of all the programming produced for the BBC - excluding news hours - was delivered in HD. This will increase this year and I hope that by 2012 we will see at least 70% of BBC programming being made in HD. We are providing training and support where it is needed, and sharing our experiences, both good and bad. To be successful, we need the industry as a whole to move forward, and so the insights and support that we have available are there for all those who may find them valuable, whether they sit inside or outside the BBC.

We are looking to grow in other ways too. In April we launched BBC HD content on the online BBC iPlayer. Our programmes have subsequently become available on Virgin's TV iPlayer. Our aim in moving into these on-demand spaces is to try to extend the access to the programmes we are making in HD, to open up the HD world a little further. Let me share some of the - unsolicited - feedback with you.

For the first time I am watching HD television... on my PC which has come down my phone line and over the power lines inside my house. How weird is that! Quality is excellent on my computer monitor and I can't wait to try it out on my 40" LCD.


Looks like my cheap PC may be getting a new graphics card soon. I could just stick to watching shows via the iPlayer in standard def, but you know what they say.....once you've gone HD you never want to go back.
Our HD offering on-demand is still developing, and will grow. But already the experience of HD is sufficiently compelling to prompt people to think about upgrading their computers. HD does mark a return to traditional, old fashioned, sit-back-and-relax-while-the-pictures-roll television. But it is also finding a place in the new media world which - as connection speeds increase - will only strengthen.

We could not have got to this point were it not for the willingness of others across the industry to feel the fear of HD and to do it anyway. There are many independent producers, cameramen and freelance directors who have embarked with us on this voyage to the unknown, believing like us in the creative potential of the new technology. To them I would like to say thank you.

And to those who have to date sat somewhat nervously on the sidelines, I would urge you to join us. HD is more than a technology standard or a delivery format. It is the way that we need to make television going forward because it is the way that our audiences want to view television. As such, it is truly unstoppable.

I believe that we are already very close to the inflexion point at which HD take-up will start to accelerate away to stratospheric growth rates. Two things only are critical to that - the widespread availability of HD (and of course the equipment to receive it), and the availability of a rich seam of content in HD which audiences want to watch.

By the end of this year, HD on Freeview will be a reality. By the middle of next year it will probably be accessible to around 50% of the UK population and I am confident that the full range of consumer equipment - from basic boxes to next generation PVRs - will be in the shops. There are now more questions to the BBC about this issue than any other HD-related matter, and it is important for all of us working in HD that we understand the significance of the Freeview HD developments.

Already, the competitive dynamic between platforms around HD is spurring growth. But many of those nineteen million plus HD-ready sets sold are in Freeview homes. For the vast majority of households, the desire for HD alone will not trigger a change in the digital supplier. In other words, there is huge pent-up demand within the Freeview population for a route to HD which leaves them with their platform of choice.

But if we look at the broadband experience, we can see quite clearly the role that compelling content plays in driving firstly take-up, and more recently the demand for faster and faster speeds. In the HD world, the shift into mass take-up requires more than the craving for the "next best thing", and more than a belief that the picture and sound quality is better. Above all it will depend on the word-of-mouth marketing from existing viewers around how much more they enjoy the programmes that they're watching in HD than their SD equivalents.

Sky - and more recently Virgin - recognise this. So too do those building up their online HD on-demand libraries. The breadth of taste in HD requires a range of channels and content to satisfy it. The Sky portfolio stood at thirty three channels last time I counted, and will grow further over the months ahead. But as we all know, an HD channel does not necessarily equate to HD programmes, and HD programmes - even the best of them in terms of pure technical quality - do not automatically equate to compelling content.

Let me speak from personal experience over the last ten months. Every programme which I select for migration to HD delivery presents new and different issues. My team and I - together with the producers we work with - have contended with high-level studio metal work, suddenly visible; dust in a dilapidated school being used for a location; getting cameras into caves, or working for street-level guerrilla-style shooting; Saharan sands; concerns about the quality of wigs; unexpected results from combinations of filters; actors and actresses concerned about aging; camera combinations involving mobile phones; the challenges of viewing HD rushes on location; sticking HD cameras in the deep freezer to test for Antarctic shoots; and that selection excludes the financial challenges which working in HD can still raise.

Sticking to a more limited range of content, or upscaling, would undoubtedly make life easier. But it would also make the viewing experience poorer, and the appeal of HD narrower.

Without good, varied true-HD content available we will not realise the potential of HD either creatively or commercially. The consistent preference of UK audiences for UK content means we need to ensure that rather than buying in programmes from the US, we work together to migrate production activity in the UK. The BBC and Sky are already doing this in terms of our commissioning activity - despite the pressures on them I hope that ITV, Channel Four and five as well as others who commission in the UK can do the same.

That is all about the short-term, a period that I believe is characterised by rapid growth in HD availability, awareness and connectivity, and I hope by continued experimentation and expansion of the amount and the variety of HD programming.

But 2012 will mark HD's coming of age in the UK. We are working on ways to ensure that as many as possible of the hours of events that will make up the London Olympics are available to audiences in true HD. And I believe that the vast majority of our UK audience will watch at least a part of the action in HD. There will be moments - as during the coronation year sixty years previously with colour television - when families and friends will gather round sets to watch together. Not because they don't have access to the pictures in other forms, but because if you can't be there, viewing in HD will be the way to get as close to the action as possible. There will be others, at work or at home, who will watch events as they happen through the day using BBC HD online video streaming, or catch up on what they've missed using BBC HD content available through iplayer or the BBC Sport portal.

I would bet personally on the point of HD switchover being some way off. But as I've already suggested, the point at which HD becomes "normal", just the quality television that viewers expect, is only around the corner.

Working in HD, whether as a producer, channel provider, or distributor can be a painful process - but the way forward must depend on another "p", partnership, on which at times it seems the whole future of UK television rests. In this case the argument for partnership is pragmatic rather than political: Because quite simply none of us - and that includes of course the BBC - is sufficiently strong on our own to address the challenges around leading UK audiences and the television industry through the HD revolution that is underway.

We need to work together to cross new creative bridges as we make an increasingly wide range of content in HD, to develop the tools and the skills together to work successfully in HD, and to build a compelling offer in terms of the range of ways that viewers can access HD content.

We need to find ways simply and clearly to explain to audiences how to get HD. The last time we asked the question - admittedly a few months ago - only 43% of UK consumers knew that they might need an HD set-top box to watch programmes in HD, and 26% were unaware that they needed an HD-ready TV.

Consumers will not buy into HD, and appreciate what it can bring to their viewing experience, if they mistakenly think that they are already watching HD simply because they've purchased an HD-ready TV. Explaining the routes to HD, and what HD represents when you get there, is a much more complex job than, say, selling colour TV, or even a basic multi-channel offer. It is up to all of us to work together to demystify the process of acquiring HD connectivity, and to highlight the choices of platform and technology that are open to viewers.

On BBC HD we have used on-air campaigns and our website to provide support for people looking to find out more about getting HD through all platforms. The video guide we have made is freely available to all third parties under the BBC's usual syndication terms, and we will of course keep looking for opportunities to do more.

Through Freesat and Freeview, as well as the iplayer, the BBC is working to open up the routes into HD for audiences. While Sky and Virgin Media will undoubtedly continue to be an important part of our HD landscape, the non-subscription services in which the BBC is a partner - to be joined in time we hope by Project Canvas - offer important alternatives. Leaving HD as a premium product - whether in terms of content or platform - might make profits for some but would leave us ultimately failing to realise the true potential for UK audiences. Opening up the technology, to the point where it simply becomes the next television standard across the board, can deliver far, far more for all of us.

But the decisive factor will be providing content that audiences love.

This year, BBC HD was Freesat viewers' choice for Channel of the Year, ahead of all other channels on the platform. In the course of 2009, in addition to brand new BBC programmes, we've brought Doctor Who, and daytime drama Doctors into HD. In the coming months Dragon's Den, Countryfile, the Culture Show, Shooting Stars, The Restaurant, Waterloo Road, Ashes to Ashes, Hole in the Wall, and Flog it! are already committed to making the move. I am confident that this year we will increase the total number of hours of content that the BBC is making in HD by over 300, and I do not intend that we should stop there.

I want to end by sharing with you the words of a new member of the HD-family, who contacted me. He says:

"Its been wonderful to see that the grim predictions of the demise of TV are not only premature but totally reversed with the take off of HD and Blu-Ray quality.

"I know there is an HD file format on iPlayer but the big screen still has a thrilling impact - I feel like a kid again when my Mum and Dad first got a colour set in 1970!"

Everyone should have the opportunity to get that excited about television again. Within the BBC we will work to make good on the promise that HD really can be for everyone. Please join us. And enjoy the content we're going to bring to you.
[Clip of Doctor Who Special]


  • Comment number 1.

    Thanks for posting this so quickly Danielle. Very interesting to read ( I'd love to see the clips you showed the audience too perhaps you could link them in somehow). The script has helped me to understand some of the problems, alluded to in your Blogs, that prevent a quick reaction to the many demands made by your blog audience.

    I've no doubt that it will solicit lots more comment on this forum. For me, I wish you could use your position, power and influence to tip the prediction of a 2012 HD coming of age to something a little sooner. Hopefully your keynote speach will influence the community enough for you to be able to replace your (best of the BBC) HD channel (a subjective thing) by full-time HD BBC1, 2 and 4 before 2012. Supplement that by replacing BBC3 with a full-time BBC HD Sport channel (and new encoders for Wednesday83) and I think everyone would be happy, with no grounds for complaint.

    Incidentally, loving Wimbledon in HD, logged onto the Blog to tell you that. Picture and Sound superb. Much better than the Preview loop! Here's hoping it's a taste of more original daytime HD TV to come.

  • Comment number 2.

    I agree with the spirit of the speech, I'm not sure I agree with all the content of the speech. Although you give the appearance of being a true believer the same stuff is in there - dates distantly in the future, justifying the spillover channel and hatred of upscaling, bigging up freeview HD and all the other things I disagree with. Freeview HD in 2010 probably will be popular with the people that get it, but beyond the "terrestrial five" demographic you're going to be potentially having a large group of people who want more than that and are going to be cheesed off at "platform neutrality" crippling their HD dreams.

    It would be good to have the clips of the new trialled Sony EX One or EX Three or even a blog on those.

    You missed a trick with Top Gear. An opportunity missed in terms of BBC HD channel promotion and there are several programmes that will come back to bite BBC Worldwide in terms of blu-ray/tv feed sales in the future. You may not realise it now but in the future you're going to lose a lot of future sales.

    If the reports in the media that all wimbledon coverage is shot in HD through 4 OB units are true then that's very promising. You need to be thinking about rolling this sort of operation out to other events, rather than creating an orthodoxy of programmes for BBC HD.

  • Comment number 3.

    So how are you going to persuade Virgin to have more than the single HD channel they currently have ?
    Despite repeated promises, Virgin users only have BBC HD at the mo., even though there are others out there (and even advertised on the standard versions of those channels).

  • Comment number 4.

    An equally important part of HD is the 5.1 channel sound. I'm not sure if it's a limitation of my Virgin V+ BBC HD, but the sound of all programmes so far seems very "flat" compared to DVDs etc. I have an optical feed from my V+ box into a decoder (that shows it is getting 5.1) and a rack of amplifiers, so it is all connected up OK!

  • Comment number 5.

    That's not the BBC's fault, unless you're saying there should be BBC1 and BBC2 HD today, which in a perfect world there should be.

    It is entirely and utterly the fault of Virgin Media and Sky for taking advantage of the former's incompetence. Virgin Media were bandwidth constrained for having not switched off the analogue system (no excuses). There was also the weaker condition that people often jabber on about that they haven't migrated along to MPEG-4. Virgin left it far too late to start negociating and then were then surprised and threw a tantrum that complex negociations take a long time even though the history of the company tells them so. None of that is the BBC's fault, at all.

  • Comment number 6.

    "An equally important part of HD is the 5.1 channel sound. I'm not sure if it's a limitation of my Virgin V+ BBC HD, but the sound of all programmes so far seems very "flat" compared to DVDs etc."
    I completely agree with the comment above!
    Enerzona, London

  • Comment number 7.

    In contrast to what some people say, I say "Roll on Freeview HD".

    For some of us, for whatever reasons, Cable and Satellite (free or otherwise) are not an option. Some areas cannot get cable. Some buildings cannot get a dish installed. Some people only want free-to-air channels.
    (and Virgin don't yet seem to have an easy and well-advertised not-all-in-one option for anyone who is more than happy with their BT line and ADSL broadband)
    Or if you tend to move around every couple of years, a terrestrial settop box is the only way of getting digital television and, hence, HD content - who wants to shell out installation charges for a place you may leave soon after? But an OTA box is a much better investment.

    And I'm hoping it comes sooner rather than later. Being in a region slated for the tail-end of the digital switchover, I fear that it's going to be a long whilse before Freeview HD is available. But that doesn't make cable or satellite any more viable an option.

    Although with HD content on iPlayer (another thing I've seen people occasioanly slate on this blog) it gives me an option.
    (As well as a reason to beef up my broadband package *grin*)

    So, yeah. I can't wait to see HD on Freeview.

  • Comment number 8.

    Thanks for the post. Interesting post. Shames theres no mention of new encoders or an increase on bandwith on the current ones tho. Come on beeb. Lets have some commitment to quality picture quality.

  • Comment number 9.

    Unfortunately with the new iPlayer I can no longer stream programmes through to my Xbox 360 as I could with the Windows Media-based version. I was looking forward to watching HD through my Xbox until the BBC changed everything. At least Sky are working on a solution with Microsoft.

  • Comment number 10.

    I have tried to refrain from posting in response to your blog as I feel you do not keep us all as up to date as you could with your irregular posts.
    This cannot be said about todays post though.
    I have to ask though,if HD is so important to you and the BBC then why, oh why, do we keep getting SD broadcasts of programmes ahead of the HD broadcast ?? You have told me in the past that you are not allowed to give the HD channel the first `airing` of a programme but if its going to be shown in HD why do we have to wait sometimes many days for this to happen ??

  • Comment number 11.

    Just out of interest can someone tell me roughly how much extra it would cost the BBC to increase the bandwith to 20MBPS for 2 weeks????

    would be interesting to know.

  • Comment number 12.

    Danielle: Thanks for posting!

    I am disappointed that you did not mention 5.1 sound that adds another dimension to the HD experience when it is done properly as part of the overall experience. It enables the TV to be hooked up to the HD sound system we have invested in.

    Do you agree that 5.1 sound is a valued part of the HD experience?

  • Comment number 13.

    The pictures from Wimbledon in standard definition look good. Is there a technical reason that means HD coverage improves SD coverage?

  • Comment number 14.

    Dearf _marko

    The short answer is "yes"!

    The longer answer is slightly more complex but:
    1. HD cameras and lenses are much better
    2. The processing and electronics are better
    3. The link back from Wimbledon is much better
    4. The SD signal is taken from the HD signal as late a possible in the chain.

    All this adds up to an SD signal that has far less noise (much higher signal to noise ratio) going into the SD transmission chain giving you better SD


  • Comment number 15.

    I've yet to be convinced that HD is in such demand as described. I confess I am coming from a position of not having experienced it properly (only having viewed on a set up belonging to a relative, which I suspect was not set up correctly, where HD and SD looked identical). However the SD freeview signal on BBC1, where a reasonable amount of bandwidth is presented, is already very good on a sensible sized screen.
    My concerns are these:
    1 Having already replaced all my equipment to be 'ready for digital' as asked repeatedly by broadcasters, I'm annoyed that the broadcast standard is already changing radically and making my new kit potentially obsolete.
    2 If HD on freeview becomes a reality, where will the bandwidth come from? I believe it will have to come at the expense of the already challenged SD streams thereby reducing the quality of SD and pushing adoption of HD by underhand means.
    3 How long will it be before HD is replaced by the next new broadcast standard and we begin this game once more?

  • Comment number 16.


    Thanks for the post, it's obvious from it you appreciate and understand the opinions expressed within this blog by the viewers.

    The questions is how do you convince the BBC trust to increase the budgets to help accelerate conversion to HD?

    Wimbledon is looking great and the 5.1 sound is fab. It does creates an extra dimension and added atmosphere that helps draw you in.


    Is it my imagination / my set up, or are there less problems around areas of high frequency this year? i.e. the net.

  • Comment number 17.

    To andyquested #14:

    Thank you.

    For me the quality is good enough: On a 32" screen, with the dynamic contrast setting and extra sharpness (I know you're meant to switch these things off) makes it very realistic. I anticipated that I would probably be watching mostly standard definition over the next few years so did not choose a larger 37" screen where I would notice the difference but also highlight the artifacts of SD. I feel no need to switch to HD but will probably occaisionally view downloaded HD files from a PC.

    Also, all live footage looks better, news reports etc but general studio faces look a bit washed out - don't know whether this is skin make-up or bright lights (again all viewed in SD with the dynamic and sharpness set on my panasonic)

  • Comment number 18.


    If SD and HD looked identical then I have to say that you are correct in asserting that the TV was not set up correctly, connected with scart for example.

    IMHO SD doesn't look good, certainly on any TV 37" upwards. HD looks dramatically better. Below 37" again IMHO, at normal viewing distances the difference is less obvious, but still plainly visible.

    I am sure Andy can correct me if the following is incorrect, regarding freeview and HD you have no need to be worried. The HD channels are getting their own dedicated multiplex which wont affect SD.

    Although existing freeview recievers will not be able to pick it up, they should be able to receive all the existing channels.

    You should only need a new freeview box if you want HD. Also, if you have bought a "HD Ready" TV then this will also work just fine

  • Comment number 19.

    Have to agree about the 5.1 audio. Please don't overlook how important this aspect of HD is.

    Wimbledon is sounding fantastic - you really feel part of the crowd. And Sharapova is in fine voice this afternoon! ;-)

  • Comment number 20.

    The clear out of Mux B will affect freeview. It will have one fewer mux for SD! Although MPEG-2 has got more efficient you're basically depriving DTT (not the same as freeview) of one of it's six muxes for SD. This issue is sidestepped as DTT has never been efficiently utilised with ITV and C4 crammed on half a mux each and the BBC hogging bandwidth to use on services like interactive whilst there are other inefficiencies like TUTV wasting space too. Add in DVB-T2 and MPEG-4 and add in Ofcom's number fiddling and you can just about get everything to work.

    There will be a squeeze. I also agree with TheBertrum in the sense that BBC1 on 4.5Mbs is good quality for SD. Unfortunately this is the creme de la creme so is not a meaningful comparison. If all freeview channels were the pq of BBC1 I'd be very happy. In reality many are nothing like it.

    Anyway the issue here is HD and on freeview eventually there will be a 5th HD channel. Even with DVB-S2 and efficient AVC encoders it will not be possible to do this without a substantial drop in quality. BBC HD's pq is not good enough right now, what's it going to be like running on 8 or 9Mbs? I'd say that with the limitations that is perhaps acceptable on freeview, but why should the other platforms have to put up with (a) dragged down bitrate (b) platform neutrality so the BBC won't launch any other HD channels that freeview can't get. Madness.

  • Comment number 21.

    Obviously the platform neutrailty argument cannot be side-stepped by the BBC, as everyone pays the license fee and actions which marginalise who can receive a big chunk of the results of the licence fee would be unacceptable and probably cause the license fee to be dropped entirely.

    I do think that retailers and the BBC themselves have to push far more education on the public with more HD demos and media interest talking it up. You can now get it rhough Sky and Freesat HD so alcot of people are already enjoying HD channels. Though I despise Sky, I cracked this week and got Sky HD with the bare channels package as its preferable to Freesat (which my parents have) and its 2.5 HD channels. All that's needed is a clear roadmap and strategy, or a public debate or even legislation from Parliamennt as in Australia/US. It seems like for all the words, the BBC does not view HD as a massive priority, and this lack of perceptable, transparent strategy is annoying a good section of the UK public and squandering the goodwill of them having been buying HD-ready TV's for the last few years.

  • Comment number 22.

    Fantastic post thanks. I'm really looking forward to the next episode of Psychoville in HD. Best thing on BBC2! :D

  • Comment number 23.

    Just got back in from the ballet, boy friend, best friend (girl) run!! Lots gone up tonight and I need some sleep. A quick thing to think about though:

    DSat - 1 HD channel = fixed bit rate, DTT - possibly 4 (or as several have said could it be 5 in the future) HD Channels = stat mux.

    Dear tagmclaren - yes more net visible - better setup at Wimbledon, better link (but lower bit rate) back to Television Centre and although we have the same transmission encoders, they are better set up.

    Dear ropies - it is even possible to do very good HD at less than 6Mbs but you could probably walk to Wimbledon and back before the signal finished processing - however things get faster every year or so.

    I feel I need to d a blog soon


  • Comment number 24.

    Danielle, Im what you might call an early adopter, Ive had a 42 HD before Sky, since it was available from Euro1080 and Ive had an HD receiver since day one, and I love it, whilst I agree, many people are buying large HD ready (by the way the correct term is Full HD, HD ready just means an HDMI socket, the screen can still be lower resolution than 1080, sorry, too many people are confused by this) I think some of the things you talk about should be put into the context of a bigger picture by that I mean the production values are surley now the same for SD as they are for HD, wobbly pictures in HD are horrible, but so they are in SD, has the BBC taken on board yet the fact that many people are now watching on bigger screens ? I liked the early series of Hotel Babylon, but I cant watch the latest series.
    Regardless of the genre just because its in HD, does not mean Im going to watch it, if the content is poor, Ill watch something else, SD or HD, what we need are quality (content) programmes, and they are getting fewer and fewer, not just from the BBC but from others too. Of course there have been some magnificent programmes on HD, and most have been originated professionally and If I may elude to your reference to self shooters,,,, enough of the wobbly cam, soft focus and woolly sound, it doesnt work in HD and will not work in SD because we are, as you said, watching on bigger screens these days, and it hurts the eyes !
    In the Cinema (even bigger screen) great care is taken to achieve a wobbly, usually a steadicam with an expert operator.
    Anyway, the BBC IS to be congratulated for a super service and I thank you for it, please dont succumb to lowering standards now.

  • Comment number 25.


    The BBC One controller said BBC One hasn't reached the tipping point ready yet to launch its own HD service.

    How long would it take once they want to launch a service to configure a 2 HD solution? And leave room for say 2 interactive HD streams which could be turned into future channels


    It's a great speach, although the contradiction of people coming to view it is that they will see there is a giant demand for sport, enough to warrant a blog post on it.

    Seeing as its Wimbledon I have to do a John Mcenroe you cannot be serious about bringing hole in the wall into HD?

    Where in the speach is a mention for the Championship fixtures starting from this August or the Autumn Rugby Internationals, or any news on golf,darts and snooker coverage over the coming months.
    Or the premiership highlights.
    Or a look to the future of the Winter Olympics and looking at the chance to secure F1 in HD.

    It's good to see more and more HD content becoming avaliable though.

  • Comment number 26.

    Many thanks for posting the speech Danielle. I support the comments that 5.1 sound is an important part of the HD experience.

    Andy Quested's explanation of the improved SD quality of Wimbledon shows that even non-HD viewers are benefiting from BBC investment in HD.

  • Comment number 27.

    I would like to see a dedicated Bbc HD Sports channel. The red button is a good thing but the big drawback is you cant pause it or record it , and if u pause live TV and then go to the red bttn afterwards it can already be over.

  • Comment number 28.

    Quote: "We cannot afford - nor would our programme-makers want - to reverse the self-shooting trend. It is only recently that we have been able to identify any camera which can deliver broadcast-quality HD and work in that sort of production set-up."

    Really? I know many many producers who hate self shooting. It irks me that bigwigs such as you hide behind the idea that producers love self shooting when the reality is it makes everyone below exec producers life hell. Think of the poor editor who has to deal with bad pics and bad sound, the AP/researchers who have to worry about cameras when then should be concentrating on content and learning from the director. That's not to say there aren't good self shooting AP's and Directors, there are but what makes me laugh is when John Wills sights in a article in Broadcast about self shooting and editing his depts 2 best shows of that year: "Coast" and "Auschwitz" - neither were self shot or self edited.

    It staggers me that you (and comm. editors) just don't seem to get it. The programmes that the public flock to and love are the programmes that made to the highest degree of craft skill, "Wallander" being a prime example.

    When it comes to HD, the fact is people who spend money on expensive HD TV's and 5.1 stereo's do not want to see badly lit, badly framed pictures with poor audio.

    The problem is you can't have it both ways: either the delivery sepcs for BBC HD are high as to excluded everything but HDcam SR and RED or you allow the use of other cameras like the EX3 and PDW700/800.

    But the simple fact of the matter is to make the best of HD (and SD, lets be honest) you need people with the right skills behind the camera. They are called cameramen BTW, and yes in the interests of transparency I am one.

  • Comment number 29.

    What is the likelihood (or not) of the BBC broadcastinf Formula 1 in HD in the near future..?

  • Comment number 30.

    @Camerajunkie - well said. I couldn't agree more. You clearly know what your talking about and, I suspect, have eloquently summed up the feelings of the majority of Danielle's viewers on the issue of self-shooting. I personally like my HD TV pictures to be well crafted and professionally created.

    On another matter, why was Glastonbury not in 5.1 sound? I put it on especially to hear the sound and was most disappointed. Are all your surround sound mikes at Wimbeldon?

    Oh, while I'm on the subject of Wimbledon perhaps you (or even Camerajunkie) could explain why the cameraman at the back of the court wobbles the camera from side to side when there's no apparent reason to do so. Also, re: the sound from there the Live matches, for the most part, sound great but the studio comments on the highlights programme, in wild contrast, sound absolutely terrible - weak and insipid. Also, in the matches the commentators seem to come 98% through the centre speaker but there's about 2% of the commentators sound echoing from the rear speakers, which is quite off-putting and spoils the otherwise lifelike experience. Far better to have all the commentary coming from the centre speaker and save the rear ones for what's coming from the mikes behind the camera.

  • Comment number 31.

    Dear paul_geaton

    The BBC supplies coverage to other broadcasters and we have to supply a 4:3 compliant picture. This means we have to move the main camera slightly to keep play inside the 4:3 safe area. We will have to do this until the world goes 16:9 (and HD I hope).

    Last time I checked we were not putting any commentary through the centre speaker. For the live play it is just effects from the centre and surround with FX/commentary mix from front left and right. I have just checked the lunch time programme (Friday) to confirm. If you are getting any commentary from the centre or surround speakers, it was a mistake by us or your set-up has a problem. I have asked if we can try commentary from front three at some point as this is becoming quite popular.

    The highlights are stereo only at the moment.

    Glastonbury has it's own issues. The sound team there is very good on surround (many do Jools, Electric Prom and the "Sessions" programmes). The site is very big and there is a lot of television coming out of there - but I will ask again next year.


  • Comment number 32.

    Andy, thanks for your reply which explains all.

    Now I think about it, you're right about the commentary coming from the FL & FR and not the centre but I do get an echo of it from the rear two as well, albeit relatively weak. Perhaps it's down to my set-up but I've never heard it with anything else.

    The contrast between the 5.1 sound in the Live show and the stereo highlights is incredible. When the programmes switch over at 8pm it sounds as though John Inverdale and his team are broadcasting from a cupboard in comparison. It shows how good the 5.1 sound is, and on the Live programme the jets landing at Heathrow sound like they're going over the top of my house.

    Hoping that next year you get Glastonbury in 5.1 too. By the way the HD pictures from both Wimbeldon and Glastonbury are fantastic on my telly and I'm loving the extended HD Channel hours. Thanks.

  • Comment number 33.

    Im hoping next year Glastonburn will be picked up by another channel like MTV HD. Then we may get a very good Hd picture at last and propper sound.

    Also why cant the red button feature just have live action from each stage???

    I was looking forward to Doves last night and had to watch bits and bats on BBC 3 then BBC 2.

    Why not have The other stage and the John peel stage live on the red button showing full coverage??? Its stupid only showing bits of each. Then again its the Beeb. What do they do that isnt stupid lol.

  • Comment number 34.

    Oh and a suggestion to head of BBC HD, maybe the BBC would like to stop claiming snacks and flowers on the Expenses form and invest a little more on HD production?

  • Comment number 35.

    Dear wednesday83

    I'm still not sure on what and how you watch the BBC HD Channel. We have made several improvements, albeit with the same hardware over the last year and have some very high quality images from Wimbledon and Glastonbury. Just one line above your post was the comment:

    "Hoping that next year you get Glastonbury in 5.1 too. By the way the HD pictures from both Wimbeldon and Glastonbury are fantastic on my telly and I'm loving the extended HD Channel hours. Thanks"


  • Comment number 36.

    I would say the Wimbledon pictures are a lot better than last year. There is no noise on the green screens at the end of the court.

    One thing though. The scoreboard in the top right of the picture is out of focus. Last year it was really sharp and you could easily read it on the full shot of the court.

    I think I would prefer the third commentator to use the centre channel.

  • Comment number 37.


    During the Roddick v Melzer match, I heard a number of pops/clicks which co-incided with a dramatic reduction in the surround volume. Was there a problem with the broadcast?

    In other matches I have also noticed sound drop-outs and, on one occasion, the sound actually faded away gently to nothing!?

    I have not noticed any such problems on other BBC HD content broadcast with DD5.1 audio.

  • Comment number 38.

    Not your equipment Andy same was happening for me too..

    pops and clicks followed by a noticeable dip in volume, which then slowly returned to normal...

    Also why is All the BBC HD Wimbledon coverage including in studio with Sue so quiet compared to the other HD stuff like intermission announcements and programme trailers. A trailer came on for Planet earth in between the coverage and almost blew the windows of my living room out!!

    I also noticed the out of focus scoreboard top left on centre court coverage.

  • Comment number 39.

    29. At 2:34pm on 26 Jun 2009, markgrainger wrote:

    What is the likelihood (or not) of the BBC broadcasting Formula 1 in HD in the near future..?

    "Roger Mosey of BBC Sport said F1 wont yet be available in HD though wed very much like it to be. Ill keep you posted.

    He went on in a later comment to explain that it wasnt down to the BBC. He said: the BBC very much wants F1 to be in HD. The problem is the world feed is currently in standard definition, and it depends on the demand from broadcasters other than the BBC before it will be upgraded. Well keep lobbying

  • Comment number 40.

    Re F1 in HD. Isn't the truth of the matter that Ecclestone wants more money from the broadcasters for it? Perhaps a little "top slice" off Jonathan Ross's pay would cover it................

  • Comment number 41.

    Dear BikeNutt & zytecs

    I have just checked the enginners log for the weekend and there were two audio issues.

    1. A dolby encoder needed to a reboot - this was causing the odd pop and crack.

    Have a look at Rowan's White Paper on Dolby E for more details


    Also there was a fault on the return feed during that caused the fade out.

    Both now repaired


  • Comment number 42.

    Sorry for the poor English above

    (1.) has a rogue "to" and (2.) has a rogue "during" - well it is Monday!


  • Comment number 43.

    Thanks Andy.

  • Comment number 44.

    Thanks Andy really enjoying the BBC HD coverage... not complaining... just for feedback but it's still doing it btw, doesn't seem as often or as bad but has happened during the Federer / Soderling & currently a few times in the Safina / Mauresmo match so far.

    Also is there any reason, (or a fix), for the huge difference in volume level between the Wimbledon coverage, and all the Other HD programming / trailers / announcements etc?

    Re: alfiebengal

    Bernie got his fingers burnt with the adventurous F1 Digital+ endeavour in the past so that maybe why he is stalling now. Currently there are no HD feeds of any F1 races as FOM do not broadcast their video feed in HD (and all broadcasters use the same single video feed from FOM). They had announced plans to move to HD but as of yet are not doing so. Rest assured in 100% sure the BBC will be showing F1 in HD when they are able too..

  • Comment number 45.

    At various points the national broadcaster showing F1 in Australia and Japan have provided HD coverage of the race.

    There are plans for Japan and even Abu Dhabi to be broadcast later this year.


    If the BBC doesn't want to directly invest in HD for the Championship fixtures and Autumn Internationals could it not out source the work to the provider of HD coverage that Sky uses so the BBC only has to invest in providing presenters in the studio and commentators?

  • Comment number 46.

    @Andrew Knight

    Not wishing to turn this into an F1 discussion, the point I was trying to make is the BBC Show the world feed which other than a few places outside europe, (Japan being one), FOM supply this world feed so we wont get good F1 coverage in HD untill FOM / bernie are convinced / paid more money. Currently there maybe local HD coverage and one of deals, but I doubt the contact would allow the BBC to show any of this without FOM / Bernie's nod.

    It would be great if Japan and even Abu Dhabi are shown in HD

  • Comment number 47.

    Dear zytecs

    I listened to a couple of junctions today but heard no major difference between the Wimbledon audio and the continuity announcements BUT the continuity announcements are centre (or front three) and Wimbledon is L/R only.

    I will keep checking - one thing, I assume you are listening 5. from the optical o/p?


  • Comment number 48.

    Excellent Post Danielle

    Wimbledon & Glastonbury have been fantastic and really show what HD can do, watching Murray tonight with the roof on and the picture looks stunning.Will we be getting sort clips from Glastonbury throughout the year?

    Any news on The Championship football matches and the Open Golf 2010 watching The Open this year in Fuzzy SD will be a let down, please let us know of any news on these two as soon as you have it.

    Look forward to your next post with more news of new programmes soon.

    Looking forward to Stevie Wonder on Friday. Any chance of repeating Elton John Session again as my PVR played up and did not record it.

    Thanks also for the excellent comments on technical matters from andyquested.

  • Comment number 49.

    @andyquested - Has the BBC ever considered delaying the digital cable,satellite and terrestrial signal so it is synched with BBC HD for live sports events?

    One large problem is that in a scenario where people are in ear shot of each other watching in the different formats those watching a critical world cup match in SD start celebrating before the HD viewers even see the result.

    This could end up annoying HD viewers more than the moving camera at Wimbledon and will become an issue as more people watch sporting events in HD.


    I'm just pointing out F1 has been made in HD and it is possible.

    It's just a case of asking FOM and Bernie to make it avaliable, if there is demand from key broadcasters of F1 which spend a great deal on the rights and from viewers then FOM and Bernie can't ignore this.

  • Comment number 50.

    Will part 1 of Thin Ice be rescheduled after the tennis overrun last night?

    The picture from inside the centre court and outside showing London added to the drama last night. Live sport in HD not bad eh Danielle perhaps we cpuld have more!!!!

  • Comment number 51.

    Dear Andrew Knight - it is far worse than you think. All the platforms have different delays and the DTT delay varies depending on transmitter and local service. THEN each type of display is different - we have seen some displays with 30-40ms delays and some with 200+ms. Take this to the extreme when many will use iPlayer (or the like) to watch live programmes...

    Imagine this scenario - a lovely sunny day in 2010. The doors and widows are all open while you watch the World Cup and it's a penalty shoot out (we've never been in this position before!!).

    If your next door neighbour is watching the analogue service and you are watching HD - you will know the result before he has even thought about moving.


  • Comment number 52.


    Thanks for looking into it andy, I'm using Humax Freesat HD box - HDMI - to Samsung 52" TV audio out via Phono to 5.1 surround system, where the difference in volume between for instance The Ice cream van intro music and the Girl announcing now we are off to centre court, and then the welcome by Sue in the Wimbledon studio. is quite large. It's less noticeable if I just use the TV speakers but it still seems much quieter than the HD & other BBC channel norms. I liken it to the difference in volume, (or dynamic range as they tell us), between the programmes and the adverts on the commercial channels.

    It's no biggie, just have to scramble for the remote to hit mute everytime there is a break from Wimbledon coverage to continuity announcements or other programes to avoid being blown out the chair.

    On another point I noticed some if not all the sound dipping is often when they get a net caught on serve, it's as if the mic is overcome by the "sonic whiplash" of the net, is the big furry grey thing on the bottom of he umpires chair part of your sound system btw

  • Comment number 53.

    Dear zytecs

    This sounds like some form of dynamic range control or AGC I will listen again this evening


  • Comment number 54.

    @ zytecs ....I'm using Humax Freesat HD box - HDMI - to Samsung 52" TV audio out via Phono to 5.1 surround system...

    How do you get 5.1 connected like that? Surely you need to connect the STB directly to the amp via optical or coax (don't know what audio out Humax has), or connect from the optical out on your TV (if it has one)to the amp.

    I didn't think phono leads could carry DD sound.

  • Comment number 55.

    dear derek500 and zytecs

    derek500, you might be right but I thought the Humax had optical and phono out for spdif and I assumed zytecs had connected HDMI to the TV and phono spdif to the surround amp - can you confirm zytecs


  • Comment number 56.

    I get the same audio differences with my system (a freesat playing through an AV amp, via optical lead). My theory is that it's because Danielle and her team aren't using the centre speaker for any of the commentary or studio dialogue for the tennis. Most other things that I watch in 5.1 have a large proportion of dialogue coming out from the centre speaker, but as Andy has already pointed out Sue, John and Co. at Wimbledon are coming out exclusively from the FL & FR. In my set-up, these speakers (Spendors) are great for playing music and other big sounds but don't seem to cope well with dialogue but, by contrast, my centre speaker (B&W) plays that loud and clear. Perhaps Andy's suggestion of having a trial using the front three for dialogue might solve the problem.

  • Comment number 57.

    @ andyquested

    Yes that's how mine is connected, sorry for confusion, I want an HDMI amp but new tyres & TV Licence ;) have taken care of that posibility for a few months...

    Anyone else notice the "net caught on serve sonic whiplash volume drop fade back", (for want of a better name)

    Still great sound however my cat hides under the sofa everytime a plane goes over centre court :)

  • Comment number 58.

    A clear comparison at the momment is listening to the Murray / Ferrero match on BBC HD if I then go Red button choose no 1 option it is showing same feed as HD but is very much louder than on BBC HD (or rather the HD Channel is much quieter)

  • Comment number 59.

    Some of my favourite shows including Ashes to Ashes, Waterloo Road and Dragons Den are moving to HD, will I still be able to watch them on BBC1 and 2 as before or only on HD channel.

    I am particularly looking forward to series 3 of Ashes to Ashes and am worried I may not be able to watch it as I do not have HD TV or subscribe to BBC HD.

  • Comment number 60.

    Dear smilingunited 88,

    Don't worry, please. The arrival of shows on BBC HD doesn't mean they disappear off their normal host channels. For those who have HD connected TVs, programmes made in HD and shown on BBC HD can be viewed in HD on the channel. As far as possible we try to schedule programmes for the same time that they are going out on SD channels, although sometimes that isn't possible. For those, like you, who don't currently have an HD connected set, you can watch the programmes as you have done in the past on BBC One or BBC Two. But I should add that there is no need to buy a subscription to watch BBC HD. The channel is available free of charge to any Freesat box owner. You can also watch on Sky HD free of charge(ie you need a Sky HD box but don't need to subscribe to a package, although you won't get the rest of the Sky HD channels without doing so). BBC HD is coming to Freeview in December and depending on where you live you'll be able to access HD probably at some point in 2010 (though you will need Freeview HD equipment to do so); and of course you can find BBC HD programmes on iPlayer which you can watch in HD if you have the connection and processing power to deal with the larger files. I hope that helps.


  • Comment number 61.

    I would like to know more about the HD masters conference please.
    On the link at the top of the page that links to the page about the conference it says:

    " NEW! for 2009
    * In-depth analysis of 3D; the most talked about new entertainment format...
    * In-depth analysis of 1080p50; the next generation of HD
    * Special feature session on Super Hi-Vision, showcasing resolution way beyond HD
    What is/will be happening with each of these in terms of UK broadcasting, especially with Freeview HD, eg. 3D, 1080p50, and Super Hi-Vision. Also what will happen in the future in UK broadcasting as a result of the BBC's white paper regarding high frame rate television?

  • Comment number 62.


    You've now been head of the BBC HD team for around a year and a half. I'm reminded by this particular Blog that, over 6 months ago in this key-note speech, you were banging the drum for the format stating that "HD plays into a basic desire for high quality television pictures". It was very encouraging to note, then, your evident enthusiasm. You ended the address on a joyous note with a quote from a new member of the HD-family, who contacted you to say:

    "Its been wonderful to see that the grim predictions of the demise of TV are not only premature but totally reversed with the take off of HD and Blu-Ray quality. I know there is an HD file format on iPlayer but the big screen still has a thrilling impact - I feel like a kid again when my Mum and Dad first got a colour set in 1970!"

    I wondered, has that particular HD family member been in-touch with you again recently. And, if so, can you report that he's still as thrilled with the channel? Certainly, to the extent that he thinks it provides Blu-Ray quality (where have I heard that comparison mentioned before, in a slightly different context....ummm?)?

    In the interest of keeping abreast of recent developments, can I ask you whether his comment is still typical of the sort of thing you get in your postbag today?

  • Comment number 63.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 64.

    All this user's posts have been removed.Why?

  • Comment number 65.

    A clear comparison at the momment is listening to the Murray / Ferrero match on BBC HD if I then go Red button choose no 1 option it is showing same feed as HD but is very much louder than on BBC HD (or rather the HD Channel is much quieter)https://www.seslichatailesi.net/


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