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P2P-Next Trial

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George Wright George Wright | 17:59 UK time, Monday, 21 July 2008

The BBC's ongoing work on the P2P-Next project is beginning to produce interesting results (and code!).

P2P-Next is running an early trial with around 500 participants to assess client (software application) suitability, to examine whether our plans and work for a full P2P system will deliver useful outputs, and to stick with the "Release Early, Release Often" approach that we're aiming for with this project.

You can take part in the trial, as there are still some spaces left. Head over to trial.p2p-next.org to download the software.

P2P-Next will run across the European Union (the Commission is paying for a hefty chunk of the work, after all), with 21 partner companies, and the BBC is exploring how a UK-facing, licence fee-funded corporation like us can work outside its normal geographic boundaries.

Clearing BBC content for worldwide redistribution without DRM is no mean feat. Thanks go to Richard Chapman and the other folks in the BBC Weather Centre, along with the Met Office, for allowing us to add a four minute bulletin of the European weather forecast to the trial.

One of the main problems that we're trying to solve with this project is the fact that a lot of very interesting P2P projects can't quite cope with live content. This means, for example, that P2P distribution wouldn't work with news, or live sporting events. One of our partners in the project, Fabchannel has contributed a live feed from their Amsterdam office, showing that we have managed to crack live P2P, at least for this small trial.

The content in this trial is, admittedly, not the stuff that keeps online video companies afloat, or makes the BBC's consumer VOD services like iPlayer so popular - but then this technical test isn't hugely about the content. We're examining network performance problems with consumer broadband being rate limited on upload compared to download speed, and how changes to video codec and bitrates affect live video playback. All of this fits into our stated goal with this project - to explore and create next generation Internet distribution systems for TV and radio content.

The code behind the trial is written in Python. We have Windows [6] and Ubuntu/Debian GNU/Linux clients built now - OSX is coming Real Soon Now. Source is also available via our SVN repo. Code is released under OSI approved free software licences, so if your favourite distro isn't featured, you can build your own binary (and redistribute it!).

P2P Next is still rough around the edges in part - it's not consumer-focussed, after all, so READMEs and features are still very much work in progress - but then this is a four year research project and we're only in July of the first year ('M7' in EU language).

There'll be more news on this as we make further releases.

George Wright is Portfolio Manager, Rapid Application and Development, Research & Innovation, BBC Future Media & Technology.


  • Comment number 1.

    This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the house rules. Explain.

  • Comment number 2.

    The "Head Over" URL isn't working. It's linked as "https://trial.p2-pnext.org"

    The URL trial.p2p-next.org does work though.

    (Just thought I would advise.)

  • Comment number 3.

    Apologies - now fixed. Thanks for spotting it.

    Nick Reynolds (editor, BBC Internet blog)

  • Comment number 4.

    Man, the https://www.p2p-next.org/ is pretty bad - all in Flash!

  • Comment number 5.

    https://www.p2p-next.org/ I as well did not like the flash horrible. https://www.birsesver.com

  • Comment number 6.

    yees I as well did not like the flash horrible. sesli sohbet

  • Comment number 7.

    right first things first, your Multicast arguments are wrong......
    ill get tothat later.

    im tech and like helping IF you are really ready to listen and try my ideas as a one off and throw away IF they dont work....BUt keep if they do OK.

    i downloaded and installed https://trial.p2p-next.org/https://trial.p2p-next.org/swarmplayer/SwarmPlayer_1.0.1.exe

    opened and authorised the windows xp3 firewallon a clean installed and updated OS.

    cant seem to cut and paste with your ytphon GUI but

    loading weather.avi
    "problem connecting to tracker (10061,'connection refused')"

    so not a good start there.....

    to be clear, my VM cableis directly conected to the CM so no wireles router involved here, there is a simple tracker problem at your end, im about to try and find its URL to ping it as you dont seem to supply that most basic data in your pages in a human readable form so far, you need to include these things to help discount simple problems id asy...

  • Comment number 8.

    apparently the Tstreams are make from/with azureus so thats good, the torrent trackers are
    livestream and

    using AZ/vuse directly on the https://tracker1.p2p-next.org:6900/announce cant
    connect eather leading me to think your trackers broke rather than your
    Python code GUI being broken....

  • Comment number 9.

    the very first thing you need to do is install a basic annon blog as we have here at both https://trial.p2p-next.org/ and https://www.p2p-next.org/ or your not going to get good instant and open feedback, i and many others cant be bothered to register everytime some web page posts a story or wants me to email them in private, i wnat fedback from both you and the other trialists just as much as you do after all....

    so put on up ASAP with a catchya entry if you must to keep the autobots away if you must OC....

  • Comment number 10.

    an edit post would be good OC as id like to re-edit my bad typing...

    rather than keep posting to correct myself.

  • Comment number 11.



    "The P2P-Next integrated project will build a next generation Peer-to-Peer (P2P) content delivery platform, to be designed, developed, and applied jointly by a consortium consisting of high-profile academic and industrial players with proven track records in innovation and commercial success."

    fine, but that seems to imply on my forst reading ,no consideration of the actual users, you use what we write, adn we have our fixed opinions on that that will be...

    not very open if thats the case, and it could be so much more, ill get to that...

    "The current infrastructure of the Internet is not suited to simultaneous transmission of live events to millions of people (i.e. broadcasting). "

    well it is, but for the worlds ISPs not allow it, that being "IP Broadcast".....

    "The problem is that a dedicated stream of data must be sent to every single user. "

    Nope, your already setting the wrong tone there,and giving out he wrong message, it is only the case, IF you only consider THE CURRENT Unicast for everything model the ISPs are forcing on the worlds end users of the world....

    "With millions of potential users, the simultaneous streams of data will easily congest the Internet. "

    hence why IP Multicast and IP broadcast were invented alongside Unicast to offset this Unicast limitation OC.

    "For several years, we have been told that the answer to this problem is "multicasting", whereby the data stream is distributed to many local servers that subsequently "re-broadcast" the content to local users."

    well, thata kind of true, if you mean you in the tech sectures, not so for the average end users the world over, and thats were the consumer ISPs are to blame OC...

    "However, most IP routers of the Internet cannot support multicasting"

    TOTALLY WRONG and downright misleading to the everage NON tech web users...

    the fact IS the worlds ISPs have installed commercial grade routers and related kit that IS INFACT certified for Multicsting and IP Broadcasting OC.

    these very same commercial grade routers come directly from the OEMs with multicasting installed and fully activated....

    it is in fact the worlds largest consumer ISPs that have infact gone out of their way to instruct their core network teams to deactivete the generic Multicasting activated protocols and filter off these very same Multicast messages from ever reaching or originating from the worlds end users multicast certified CPE (cable)Broadband Modems sat on their desks at home and offices....

    " and there seems to be no financial incentive for the ISPs to introduce multicasting. "

    thats an interesting point actually, its clear they could save vast amounts of bandwidth as you already know, running the long standing and still available ? "BBC multicast trials" more than that though, even offering free peering with their core backbone networks that the likes of Virgin Media and BT dont see fit to even take you up on... never mind take even a small trial...


    so whats actually stopping them taking that offer, its a mistery, as its clearly not a finantial reason being free of initial trial costs as the kits already installed, powered and just waitign to re-configure the Multicast certified options to your trial spec....essentially free infact , saving unicast transit bandwidth, again apparently not, given your free direct peering offer to all comers no matter who they are...

    and most home routers after the BB modem can infact do multicast, and if not then a simple 3rd party firmware such as OpenWRT will activate that multicast option software on a cheap 11g router..... so again no real problem for the end users IF we can get access to some multicast (tunneled) protocols to use adn retrofit into our open codebases of the future....

    "Also, the use of Audiovisual Media is moving from a collective and passive approach to personal active behavior, at home and in mobile situations outside the home. "

    true ,but thats been the same for a long time now, thats what tunnels and DHT tracking and the 11e wireless protocols etc are for, or at least could be if you went back to the old "MBONE" multicast fundimental ideas of the past.

    "At the same time use patterns are shifting towards non-linear usages, moving away from the classic model of linear broadcast TV. The TV set no longer has the monopoly of delivery of audiovisual content; the PC and related media centers, mobile phones, and potentially initiatives from new stakeholders are all becoming increasingly important

    sure, and thats were "Near Realtime" Multicast DHT torrenting can play a part....

    notice that, i said "Multicast DHT" its already been prototyped in the open and free Bamboo DHT java codebase ill also say " Multicast tunnel" and these are were you can really innovate on this EU wide commissioned trial project, resurect the MBONE with Multicast DHT p2p as your current innavation.

    see the free fully finctional java Multicast DHT code and report
    "Marcel has also written a report about his experiences building a multicast protocol on top of Bamboo. It may also be useful for tutorial purposes"

    and the java multicast Mtunnel
    " multicast Tunnel - mTunnel

    The mTunnel is an application that tunnels multicast packets over an unicast UDP channel. Several multicast streams can be sent over the same tunnel while the tunnel will still only use one port. This is useful if tunneling through a firewall.
    The applications primary goal is to allow for easy tunneling of multicast over for instance a modem and/or an ISDN connection.

    The mTunnel has a built in Web-server allowing for easy access to information about current tunnels. This server listens by default on port 9000 on the machine where started.

    The mTunnel also listens on session announcements for easier tunneling of known sessions.

    If you download and install this package please send me an email! :-) [Personal details removed by Moderator]

    The latest public version is 0.3 released 980102.
    README Changelog
    Download: Windows UNIX

    as your basic prototype to expand on and re-innovate for real, not the usual mear PR exercise....

    iv said this about the BBC Multicast trials before you need to forget the ISPs and add your own Multicast capable tunnels to your mix.
    its simple if the worlds ISPs wont willingly take you the BBC up on the free peering offer to run multicast over then bypass them and see if they change their minds when we end users are sudo multicasting over IPv4toIPv6 multicast tunnels such as the go6/freenet6 IPv6 free tunnels available to anyone TODAY.

    infact you shuld also setup and run a Ipv6 tracker on there and add in ipv6 code to your python GUI for anyone already signed up to the ipv6 tunnels as you can eun multicasting over that perfectly fine im lead to beleave, if you can confirm that george it would be great OC....



    want to install the iv6 stack for use with any 3rd party ipv4 to ipv6 tunnel ?

    easy do this:

    How do I find out IPv6 is working for me?
    Go to https://www.whatismyipv6.net/ and find out
    When trying to install IPv6 via: Open a cmd.exe window > Type: netsh interface ipv6 install and press enter


    IPv6 Only BitTorrent and Distribution Service

    Want to download a large file or want to distribute it to the world? Then try the IPv6 Only BitTorrent and Distribution Service. It allows you to submit files, which then get seeded by a swarm of very fast hosts. This guarantees fast downloads.


    and on and on, you get the picture i think..
    hell you can even see and force this very page URL from the sixxs ipv6 caches

    [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]

    see , i just added [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator] to the end and you dont even need an old ipv5 stack anymore......simple.

    so there you have the outline.

    old MBONE stype muticast with a p2p DHT muticast and tunneled twist, now thats MORE good enough for your new p2p torrent innovation, please use some of its e;ements at least, then theres also "rebol View" https://www.rebol.net/cgi-bin/r3blog.r for your cross platform TCP/IP/UDP/ GUI's OC george ;) get with the program and REALLY innovate as the BBC was supposed to do, lead the world in multicast and mass AVC/AAC codecs, dont follow the antiquated Unicast mpeg2 models.

  • Comment number 12.

    dear Mod, that URL was NOT broken it would work axactly as this ipv4 URL would IF you had an ipv4 to ipv6 tunnel running and the windows ipv6 stack installed as above

  • Comment number 13.

    dear Mod, that URL was NOT broken it would work "exactly" the same as this ipv4 URL would, IF you had an ipv4 to ipv6 tunnel running and the windows ipv6 stack installed as above, all it does is force a copy of the Ipv4 URL through their free open ipv6 cache for anyone not using a generic ipv4 IP stack... hope thast clear just add .ipv6.sixxs.org to any base URL to force it through their ipv6 cache IF TOU HAVE the right Softwre stack and ipv6 tunnel.


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