Jocelyn Jee Esien and Gareth Edwards 2

How does the workshopping process work?

Jocelyn: We would just give out these seats, and it was all free. So people would come up and give feedback at the end because they knew it was work in progress, they didn't have to laugh.

We knew immediately if a sketch worked. If only just one person was laughing their head off and everyone else didn't get it, that made me go: it needs a lot of work. Cos it's not enough for just one person.

It stops you getting complacent and arrogant because there were so many sketches that I was like "Oh, this is hilarious," and I would put them on in the live show, and they just weren't getting it. And so I'd do it again. And then they still weren't. And then I would literally say to the audience "Okay well that's not working," and they'd go "No."

They really don't laugh unless it's funny. They don't. And also because it's such an informal environment people are free to leave as well. They didn't pay for the tickets so it's a really good way of finding out.

The things that I thought oh I don't know about, people really went for. And then the things that I thought oh that's no problem, they were like: no. So it's the only way.

It's very exposing. But there's no other way of knowing. Especially if the character or the idea's been in your head for so long, and to suddenly get that out there and show people, a lot of the time people aren't going to get it. But when they do get it you can go to so many different directions.

Like with the traffic warden, I just thought we've all met traffic wardens, and a part of me thought there was a myth out there that all Nigerian traffic wardens shout at people. Actually they don't. I've never had one shout at me, because they don't have to. And I wanted to show something else. Because when you meet them they know they've got all the power and you're the one getting annoyed and frustrated and they just kind of allow you to get annoyed. You're still going to get a ticket. And I wanted to play with that.

We did the traffic warden many, many times. We just tried around six different traffic warden characters out. And one or two they got and the others they just didn't get. You can tell that they thought: oh I've seen this before.

But with those characters like the traffic warden I had to showcase it. There wasn't any other way. Obviously in my head I knew what I wanted to do, but it doesn't mean that other people do. And that's how I had to do it in the live show. And then they would get it.

Gareth: I think that's a really important part of sketch writing actually, that you need to establish a world that people feel they can believe in and invest in. And what was great about the development process of your show, and why you came up with so many original things, is that you pushed that quite far. So you were doing quite extreme characters. And because you had the workshopping process you were able to see which ones people went "Oh yeah, I know someone like that."

Can you talk a little bit about how you came up with Mrs Omwukwopopo?

Jocelyn: I know her and she's my aunt. She's my mum. She's my neighbour. She's a real amalgamation of all of them.

Actually, the idea was just to have a husband, and we're in marriage guidance counselling. And then it grew and turned into, well in Nigeria where they can have more than one wife, we can have the woman that can have more than one husband.

And then we'd just keep workshopping it. And I'd just go away and write a little bit more and it would just keep changing and evolving, and that's when I thought, maybe they're always bickering but they really love each other. But her husbands just keep growing and growing. Every time we come back to her she's just got more and more husbands.

Gareth: So in a way the genesis of that sketch comes from a sort of intellectual idea that you thought it would be fun to show, and the character grew backwards out of the situation. I think actually wherever you put Mrs Omwukwopopo and her husband they would be funny and that's because on top of that basic idea you've put layers and layers of character comedy as well.

But I think as a point to aspiring writers, while one of the great ways of coming up with a sketch is to observe the world around you, it does also work to just try and think of a funny situation, and then create a back story for the characters out of that. I think the strongest sketches are almost a synthesis of those two things -  the familiar setting with a familiar character, but where reality and the sketch kind of part company.

Jocelyn: Yeah, that's how I got Fiona. I know people that work in that kind of predominantly white environment. And she's in that environment thinking that no one knows that she's black because of the way that she's treated.

So then I got her character. And the line as well, "No one knows I'm black."
It was hard writing those sketches because that particular sketch deals with race and black clichés from her perspective. And it's her perspective of what she thinks white people think of black people. So obviously lots of things are close to the knuckle.

There are times when I was looking for writers and I would give them that sketch to go away and write. And I think because it's very personal, and as a black woman, there are certain things that I wouldn't say and there are certain things that I wouldn't do. So it never seemed to be quite right. And because she's the one character that is so close to the knuckle, when I went away to write all the Fiona sketches, I had to workshop, workshop, workshop.

I think that was the first character that I showed in front of a mixed audience, just cos it was really important that I didn't cross the line. I mean that one really scared me in the beginning, but I was so intent on workshopping I got lots of feedback.

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