Welsh Flag v Union Flag
What do you think of the Welsh flag playing no part in the Union Jack? Do you feel 100% Welsh and 100% British? Does Wales enjoy a prominent-enough role in the UK - or should Wales have total independence?
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Jason Goldsack of Sydney said, "Wales actually flies the flag of Alfred the Great, It is the actual flag of the Wessux Kingdom. Later Earldom of the Godwin's/Godwinson.
"But what most people don't seem to realise, is that Wales has never been a nation.
"Yes for a short time there was a "self declared prince".
"We all know what we think of those. He had no rightous claim. And he was a vassel of the king. Like all lords that tried the same, he was put down.
"Now the only reason Wales is a principality is because the heir to the throne is made the prince.
"Apart from that Wales has been an English province for over a 1000 years."
"...Personally, we should be working together to beat everyone else. Not beating ourselves up."
Paul from near Winchester: "It's good to see the flag of Alfred the Great of Wessex being represented here. His statue is in my hometown of Winchester here with the white and green for the Christian Catholic faith and the red dragon banner of our King Alfred so used throughout the West Country counties of England since Roman times. Although I am confused about its use in the Union Flag for surely the United Kingdom is already represented in the flag of all the three nations of our union? If Hampshire or Somerset were permitted a flag then what of the Cornish black and indeed the Jersey states perhaps we need a new multi- coloured flag with say shields of all counties of the UK would be better or stars for each county like the USA flag?"
Dave of Leigh in Lancashire says:
"I am English-born with family ties in Wales. I spent may holidays in Wales as a child and visit family whenever possible. Although not Welsh by birth I consider myself to be a Welsh supporter by choice and never feel better than on Welsh soil. Long may the Welsh continue to have pride in their nation. Cymru am byth!"
Martin Davies of Chester says,
"The Union Flag (Note not the Jack as that only exists on a ship) represents the United Kingdoms of Great Britain (Briton) and later Northern Ireland. Wales was not a kingdom but a principality and as such was not included in the union flag. However being Welsh by birth and now living in "saxonland" I do feel the Welsh are being denied their identity by the exclusion which could be simply achieved by the inclusion of a single green triangle to replace the lower blue one whose vertical edge meets the flag pole!"
An exile living in England has this to say:
"I've always felt British and Welsh and I've no problem with that. Some people feel that you need to be one or the other but in fact its fine to be both. Others accuse people like me of being un-patriotic for Wales by stating this but I think it doesnt make you any less Welsh to say you are British too and I'm proud to be both. As for the Union Jack I think the idea of putting Wales on it somehow would be interesting and I'd like to see some serious designs before making up my mind. I feel that at present the Welsh and Union flags should fly together in Wales as they do normally. At the end of the day, if we can't all live together in peace on this tiny island then there's not much hope! I also support the proposal of a 'National Great Britain day' too as well as celebrating St Davids day, St Patricks day etc. It would be nice to celebrate something collectively as a nation."
Kevin from Dublin says:
"Come on you people of Wales be like us Irish.We have our own independent Parliament in Dublin, we are a population is 3.7 million and we are not run by England. So many of you say Wales should not be Independent but what about countries which are smaller than Wales like Malta, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and many more? To say your country is too small or too mixed is a load of rubbish- Scotland, Wales, Ireland and Cornwall free our Celtic Nations now."
Gwyn of Pontarddulais has this to say:
"In the European Union there are several countries smaller in size and population than Wales who manage to be independent. We who live in Wales shouldn't be looking for a presence on the Union Flag we have our own far nobler banner. If we don't stand up for Wales we don't deserve to be a nation."
Edward of Liverpool says:
"Loathe being called British? The Welsh are the British! The term only started being applied to everyone in Britain in the 18th century (albeit thanks to the Empire). The Welsh should be proud to be the original British race. And what's really so important about being on the Union Flag? I am proud of both my English and Welsh ancestry. Wales was a nonentity at the time of union, but thanks to the likes of Saunders Lewis (himself born on the Wirral!) the UK has been made to take notice of Mam Cymru once more. I think that's enough to be proud of. Wales doesn't need to be put on the flag. She's already making herself known in the world quite well enough without it..."
Terry an Englishman living in Llanelli says:
"I wish you would all get stop imagining that you are ruled by England, Wales is part of the UK. Wales Scotland and Northern Ireland at least have a parliament/assembly, this was one of Tony's (Scotsman) first acts upon becoming prime minister, partial develotion for everybody bar the English. At sporting events the home nations are allowed to play their own national anthems except England. England should strive to release it self from the yoke of the British."
Paul from Caernarfon says:
"It never ceases to amaze me how many people like to consider themselves 'victims', even more than 700 years since Wales lost its independence to Richard I.
"When the history of Wales is studied, there was only about a 10 year period when the collection of Welsh fiefdoms was united and not fighting amongst themselves. There is talk about poverty as a direct result of the English. I think people could do with visiting some of the poorer parts of Africa or South America before using the 'P' word in serious discussion."
"As for all this talk of 'self determination', free of Westminster, what does this say about current Welsh politicians? Those who would wish to govern an independent Wales seem to be admitting that they are incapable of influencing British debate. If they can't do that, how are they fit to lead?
"It is a fact that there are 50 million English people on Wales' doorstep with money, jobs and a wealth of knowledge and experience to offer the whole of the UK. To think that Wales can turn its back on all that and actually be better off is nonsense."
"Wales is in danger of being led down a dark path by people who have a lust for power. Ever been to Bosnia? I have.
"Don't 'Balkanise' the UK - the English don't hate you and are not your enemy."
"Paul, an Englishman, married to a Scotswoman, both living and working in Wales and contributing to the Welsh economy."
Kayley Hedges, a student says:
"I came across this page when I was just surfing the internet. I am a Welsh girl going to university in England. I felt I needed to have my say. I get the mick taken out of me everyday here at university by the English, and its got more and more tedious each day. When are they going to get over themselves and give up the jealousy! Although I cant blame them! I guess I'll cut straight to the point. I am soo proud to be Welsh, but cant speak the language fluently - that alone makes me feel like a hypocrite. Secondly, I dont want our flag to be part of the union jack. I want us to be our own country. When I was in America for my gap year I was horrified to learn that they all thought that Britain = England and vice versa. And when people would say that Wales wasn't a country then that got up my nose even more!! I want us to have total independence -
be recognised as a country - have our own money even and spread the msg that Wales is here - its here to stay and we're an awesome country! Cymru am byth.
Sophie who lives in Australia says:
"
I have just moved to Australia, but I miss my friends, family and most of all the country (Wales). The Welsh flag is somthing to be proud of, don't fight about not being on the Great Britan flag (I would rather the Welsh flag). I have a Welsh flag pined on my door and everynight I come home and just think of all the great things back in Wales..."
Terry from Kent says:
"
I say good for the Welsh people if they are patriotic and are proud of their flag fly it all the time it is nothing to be ashamed of, at least they not in danger of losing their identity like England is about to do...
Kevin from Chippenham says:
"Having lived in Wales for four years I came to really love the place, and I admire your patriotism. I wouldn't go as far as saying I think Wales should be independent of the UK, but just continue to make yourselves heard and be proud. I wish us English did not think of ourselves as solely British as if we weren't English as well. I display the English flag on my number plates in a similar way that the Welsh display their flag (much more commonly than us English). I think the English should not be so ignorant to our home nation, England. For Wales to have its own culture, language and its own identity, yet also being part of British is great. I think Wales should be the identifier, in the region of Britain. After all, there is no British football team or any other sport in fact other than in athletics."
Alex of Berkshire says:
"Firstly, I think the majority in this country are proud to be a national of their home nation and the UK. (I have little stickers for both on the back of my car next to the number plate.) However, I think the more a country 'flag waves', 'in general', the more insecure the people in that country must feel about their nation..."People where I live in England don't do as much flag flying as I've encountered living in Wales. They are so sure England and Britian is great they don't need to make some big display about it. They don't even think about it much I don't suppose, they just carry on the business of being British by living as happy Britons. I think being overly patriotic is a very pathetic, un-British, and sometimes dangerous thing to do. "As a truly confident Englishman and Briton I will quite happily fly a St George or Union Flag, or not, I don't get to bothered about it because I'm quietly confident of who I am, and don't need to trumpet it. I don't find aggressive Welsh patriotism like excessive flag flying or nit picking about the union flag threatening, provocative, or a symbol of strength - its just a bit embarrassing and sad really."
Craig from Llithfaen says:
"I love my country but I am not proud of it. There is nothing to be proud of (bar our rugby team), and this is reinforced by many of the comments on this page. Being part of this union has brought us nothing but poverty, and yet Welsh people defend it. Who cares about the union jack, in Cymru its already history, and we are lucky we're not on it. What we need is for our citizens to grow up and assume responsibility for our own affairs. Then and only then will we stop blaming our neighbour for our ills. Independence for Cymru."
Tim from Perth Australia says:
""I firmly believe that Wales should regain its independence. I am an Australian born man with Welsh ancestry, and although I have never been to Wales (I will) I have always felt strongly Welsh at heart. If there is anything that is obvious concerning the people of Wales it is that the original nation that was has not died, its spirit still lives on strongly today. That this is still the case after so many years of intergration is an astounding achievement! I think that Wales has a chance to be independent again, a possiblity unique to overrun peoples of the world, and should jump at that chance."
Benjamin from West Bromwich says:
"I'm an admirer of patriotism of nations, and I've always thought Welsh are extreme in showing their love for their nation. However, I don't think the Union Jack is ignorant of the Welsh. The reason the Welsh flag wasn't included was because Wales didn't exist when the flag was originally made. Wales was English land. I think the Welsh can be proud to fly both flags though - the Welsh and the British, knowing that, really, the Union Jack does represent them, as the English part of the flag did previously cover the land of Wales. So, in the past, if the Welsh would have adhered to the English flag, then surely today, they can still be proud of a British flag?"
Thomas from Newport says:
"I feel very strongly about my Welsh roots and would like to see us as an independent country but I realise that that most probably it won't happen. It really upsets me when I can't state my nationality as Welsh on forms. Wales needs more promoting as most people over seas don't know we are even a country."
Beryl of Port Talbot says:
"The red dragon is too angry for them, and has implications of what was nicked from us, language, water, coal..."
Ted from the USA says:
"I am from Texas and attended the University College of Wales from 1976 through to 1978. Upon departure, the Rotary Club of Aberystwyth presented me with a Welsh flag. It is a large 3 ' by 5' flag. I have lived and worked in such locations as Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Indonesia, Kuwait, India, and Egypt. The flag has accompanied me to each location and I flew it proudly. Now that I am back in the states I continue to fly it, especially on St. David's Day, each year. The people at my corporate office are now quite familiar with the flag, the principality of Wales and Aberystywyth. "
Tomo in Cardiff says:
"Wales, one word = pride. Pride means to be proud of something you care for or do. Well I care for Wales and I believe we are under a dictatorship from England because Wales doesn't have it's own government, it's all controlled from England. Give us the right to choose whether Wales should be part of England or not, and keep us a 100% away from the English flag ..."
Loz of Cornwall formally Llanelli:
"I won't give up my flag ever. They can pry it from my cold, dead, fingers. That said, the fact that we are not represented on the Union flag is irrelevant, as Wales was not part of the union. Personally, I'm fed up with the fact that the Welsh are picked on for being stupid, along with the decades of 'sheep jokes'. But if you look back in history, or watched Braveheart, the English tried to 'breed out' the Scottish. The Welsh are stupid, are we? Now take a look up the page at all the places these fine Welsh men and women are from, and compare it to where they are living now...."
Alan in Sydney, Australia says:
"I think the Welsh flag is the best in the world... but I would, having both Jones and Edwards as forebears... and I married a Welshwoman. I'm Australian, not Welsh, but I wish Wales well. But if Wales has independence from the UK, it will be as part of the EC. Is this really any more independent than they are now?"
Lara in Australia says:
'I am a 21 year old Welsh girl living in Perth Australia. I fly two flags as I am proud of both of them - the Australian flag as I love this country and the Welsh flag as I am proud of my heritage. I would under no circumstances fly the Union fly as I am not from England - although it might be easier for me to do so. When ever I have people over they ask me where is that flag from. When I reply Wales and it is hung there as I am Welsh, they always ask me where that is. I tell them it is part of the UK and the response I always get is 'So England, you're a Pom'. (No offence). Everyone knows where Scotland and Ireland are and that they are not part of England, but ask them about Wales and they think I am talking about the ocean! I think the Welsh flag should be flown high and proud in Wales not only to distinguish it from the rest of the UK but to show that this little place has amazing history and people proud of it's past. More should be done to differentiate it from the rest of the UK I believe!"
Jon is Newport says:
"What people seem to forget is that Wales is already represented in the Union Flag (it's only the Union Jack when it's flying on a ship), because Wales isn't a country (except in honourary status), it is a principality of England (hence the Prince of Wales). The flag of the principality of Wales therefore can only be used in the same way as, for example, the white cross on a black background of Cornwall, which is similar as a Duchy. How can people call themselves Welsh and yet clearly not know our own history!"
Samuel in Fishguard says:
"Wales is one class country, shadowed by years of hatred of the English. When I grew up Welsh was my first language. The flag (union jack) has to be changed to keep Wales, the principality and the love of song dance and the passion of our dear country. Please feel the same way."
Fred in Sydney says:
"Everyone knows that a flag is more than a collection of lines and colours. We claim a share in the Union flag in the name of the Welsh who followed, and bled for it.
Ed in Liverpool (Cardiff lad at heart though):
"As Cymru is such a small country with a population the size of Manchester, I feel proud to be part of a very old country that has one of the best flags in the world, the best singers and surely the best national anthem 'Hen wlad fy nhadau ...'. But, maybe we should feel gratful that an oppressive English rule has allowed such tradition to continue, and to at least acknowledge the existance of Cymru, as the Isle of Man and Cornwall are not even recognised ..."
Carole in Suisun City California says:
"I grew up in Penarth, Glamorgan Wales. I can not believe that so many people think of the Celts as the Irish and Scottish. Wales does not push their true Celtic background and having grown up there I do know what this is. It is a shame. Wales has the major living language, Welsh, spoken as the first language in Mid to North Wales. Cymru am byth."
Julie in Swansea says ban the Union Jack:
"We are our own nation, with our own leaders, this is what we voted for, so why do we have to fly the Union Jack? Wales is not on the Union Jack, I do not see any green in the Union Jack which is the one of the three main colours, therefore Wales is not represented on the Union Jack. I am totally behind the banning of the Union Jack in Wales. "
David in Carmarthen says:
"Forgive me if I am wrong, which I don't think I am, and would like to be 'proven' otherwise: how much pure Celtic blood is left in the UK? Remembering of course that England was Celtic and Wales was also invaided by the likes of the Romans. Isn't it all a little petty... boring and senseless? Wales has a flag... what is everyone moaning for? If the Welsh have a unique flag it's to your advantage...to show others that you are unique. Use it, and get Wales on the map by your own promotions... moaning about England isn't going to help is it? Being attached to England (or England being attached to Wales, whatever you like?) isn't a bad thing...could be attached to a lot worse, that's for sure!"
Pauline in Ares France says:
"I am very proud to be Welsh and have been dumbfounded to find that most French people that I have met are under the impression that Wales is in England or Scotland. I have lost track of how many times I have had to draw a quick sketch on a piece of paper to show where Cymru is in the UK, and have produced my birth or marriage certificate to prove we have our own language. However, I was pleasantly surprised that our new solicitor (French but fluent in English) actually realised that Wales was not in England or Scotland and realised that we had our own language. He even advised my husband and I to tell everyone that we are Welsh to avoid discrimination. Hurray."
David in Dublin originally from Pontarddulais says:
"I'm a Welshman living in Ireland and I fly Y Ddraig Goch, St. David's Cross and Owain Glyndwr's royal banner with pride. I've never even thought about flying the Union Flag as it doesn't seem relevant to me."Some people are arguing that we are part of Britain so should fly the Union Flag or be put on the Union Flag in some way - I would like to point out that the word 'Britain' was hijacked from us in the first place. Britain (English), Britannia (Latin) or Prydain (Welsh) was orginally just used for the ancient Welsh lands/people and only relatively recently became used as a name for the whole of the island. So, the flags of the Welsh are the true native 'British' flags - the Union Flag is a recent imposer!"
Terry of Swansea says:
"Im 57years old, and Swansea born and bred. Up until this week, (19/11/04) I was proud to be Welsh and British, but the new banning laws too be, ie, smoking and hunting, our basic right in Britain for centuries, with our freedom and liberties scrapped, have made me ashamed to be British, and if we, the Welsh approve, my shame will spread to being Welsh. God help us all..." We must fight with whatever we have to regain our rights, and our freedom, and stop this governmental discrimination. I say this as a non-hunter and an ex-smoker."
James from Neyland says:
"The land of song! Welsh and very proud of it. I have travelled a lot in the past three years (Southern Africa, West Africa, Egypt, S. America, Caribbean) and most of the time when asked where I am from it is easier sometimes to just tell them England, it doesn't matter what I say whether it be Wales, UK, Great Britain, they always come back with England. It is not just the local people who do this, it is also the tourists at these locations who sometimes are unaware that Wales is a country on its own within the British Isles, I am not sure if it is just a lack of patriotic promotion throughout the world or just lack of education on their behalf. "It is hard to actually take sides on this debate as everyone who has posted their opinion all have valid reasons for what they say and I don't disagree with any of them. All I do have to say is that the Welsh flag means alot to everyone who has a Welsh background or is Welsh, and I believe that it means alot more to us than the Union Jack. " Let's just be happy with the flag we have, even if we are not as well known as the English, our flag is world famous!!! As mentioned above when travelling, to explain about Wales to someone who doesn't really know about it, I mention the flag or show them it then they can relate to us as they know the flag. And the only feedback from this flag I have had is positive. WALES FOREVER~!!!"
AJ in Chichester from Pontarddulais says:
"I must admit with the resonate years flown by I would love to see people not complain about the Union Jack or even complain about the Welsh flag not being put up in the UK or aboard! I've been to Scarborough and seen the Welsh flag flying but hardly anywhere else except whilst in Chichester I do tend to see on numorous occassions especially at my work place the St. George's flag flying. It doesn't bother me cause I can have a laugh even if I'm definitely go against the English taking the mick out of them. What I have seen is that not only the English take the mick but also we Welsh can also take the mick and have good friendship with our neighbours of the UK. So what is there to complain about? The Union Jack/St. George's flag/Welsh flag/Scot's flag/etc are all part of the same British Isles and therefore we must take the time to honour each other and respect each other no matter what flag is flying. It is not the flag that matters it is people who you make friendships with that counts!"
Dai in Walsall originally from Pontyberem says:
"I wish most Welsh people would just grow up and stop their racist nonsense. We are part of Great Britian."
Terence from west Wales says:
"... the act of Union signed in 1707 was between Ireland Scotland and England thus ending all feuding and the creation of the Union Flag. The cross of St. George (being the bigger), also the crosses of St. Andrew and St. Patrick ... with me so far? Wales being a Principality did not sign this act therefore retaining our own flag and not being included on the Union Flag ...In certain counties to insult the national flag carries a jail sentence!""When Scotland and Ireland signed up to become a union with England..the flag represented them all.
"As a principality there should be NO question about having our own flag.If I had my way the flying of the union flag would be banned (in Wales that is)....the other countries don't fly ours." "What's all this talk about joining OUR flag to the union flag...We're NOT in the union of England Scotland and Ireland. As a Celt I'm ashamed of Scotland joining the union after what the English did to them.....the Highland clearances and all that....
"One lady said ours is the nicest flag in the world - quite right cariad- boring stripes on others and we should be MADE to fly more of them."
Gwyn from Pontarddulais says:
"Britain existed before there was a British Empire it is now just an excuse to keep things as the establishment want them. If you are proud of being Welsh then you should demand the right to govern yourself."
Kate from Cardiff says:
"It is very disheartening to hear so many people whining about how the English are so terrible and how the Welsh are so hard done by. I was born and brought up in Wales but am of English descent... "Wenglish" if you like, I'm proud of both! It is a little unfair about the flag business, but both flags mean a lot to me and I see no harm in flying them side by side. Wales, like it or not, is attached to England and is part of the British Isles." We shouldn't harp on about how hard done by we are because, in the great scheme of things, we are very lucky compared to many countries who fall under dictatorship and oppression. We are not being oppressed by the English but are making martyrs of ourselves by holding such an age-old grudge... get over it and be proud to be Welsh and in the same token, British. We can only do more harm by ostracizing ourselves from what I think is, apart from the embarrassing display from our government of late, a great little country. United we stand, divided we fall!"
Tammy from Ceiber says:
"Wales is part of the UK! Right! So we should have our part in the union jack! The union jack is for the UK! It does not include Wales! I think it's quite wrong! But really I'm not gonna rabbit on about this union flag because we have our own flag it's the best ever! It has bright colours with a dragon representing Wales! I love the flag myself! Thanx Tammy."
Nathan from Pembroke considers the value of the flag:
"Being Welsh myself, I think we need to look at how much being represented on the Union flag would benefit us. I don't think the lack of Welsh representation on that flag causes the lack of overseas visibility of Wales as a nation, more the lack of promotion Wales receives as a "seperate" country to England. I'm sure the Scots suffer the same inclusion with England overseas, and they're included on the flag."I think part of the problem is that GB and it's member states compete seperately in some sports contests, yet as a GB team in others. England & Scotland tend to get further than Wales (i.e. they qualify in the first place!) in competitions where we compete as seperate nations, therefore get much more media coverage worldwide. I think sport is a major influence in publicising lesser-known countries (Cameroon in the 1990 World Cup, anyone?) - if Wales did better in international competitions, people outside the "UK" would gradually become more aware of Wales' seperate identity! "I know the whole world doesn't revolve around sport and Wales suddenly becoming a sporting superpower is a very unlikely scenario, but the reasons listed above might explain why Wales isn't generally recognised as seperate to England. Plus the majority of famous people from the UK don't come from Wales, and if they do, it seldom gets mentioned... "As for Welsh independence, I'm all for Wales having a seperate identity, but I don't think total seperation would work. Wales is still in a very poor position as far as being able to self-finance goes; even the recent massive investment from foreign companies is only done for their own interests, and because of the current state of the labour market in Wales, i.e. cheap labour and an abundance of available space & potential employees. "Until Wales stops feeling sorry for itself and actively does something to improve its' profile on the world stage, it will be continued to be regarded as a lesser-known annex of England to outsiders; a bit less hostility towards English visitors to Wales would probably help relations within the UK also!"
Alexis says:
"The dragon is a wonderful symbol and probably the most unique of any flag. I hate to see y'all lose your seperate identity. I'm part Welsh (maternal grandfather) and cherish that heritage. And this is the 'downside' to multi-culturalism: sometimes specific histories or cultures are marginalized. My humble suggestions: lose 'Welsh'. Isn't that originally Saxon for 'foreigners'? Use Cymru."
Gwyndaf from Caerdydd raises this question:
"So many of you say you are proud to be Welsh, but how many of you can speak the language?"
Charles from Swansea says:
"England considers Wales irrelevant. They know very little about us. So, how can they possibly govern us?"We enjoy economic benefits being part of the UK. But we should have complete devolution, like Spain has achieved with Catalonia and the Basque Country. "I don't think we need Wales to be represented on the Union Flag to be ablt to feel independent. We need our own bank notes like the other British nations and our own completely devolved government inspired by the Catalonian and Basque models.".
Andrew in Milan says:
"In my opinion,the Union Jack is a centuries-old remnant of "British" imperialism which should finally be consigned to the historical archives, along with the Royal Family, never to be re-opened for time immemorial.It is an affront to the citizens of Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland to see the Union Jack still being flown all over the world, especially at "British" embassies which are meant to represent and protect our interests and welfare overseas. The English establishment are only too pleased to remind the world, at every opportunity, that the British Empire once wrapped its tentacles around two-thirds of the world and the Union Jack is still used to symbolise oppression, suppression and allegiance to the English Crown. The Union Jack once flew proudly above all Britain's dominions to remind the people of these conquered lands to be eternally grateful that the English upper classes had "civilised" the inhabitants, eradicated their customs, beliefs and traditions and introduced imperialist sports such as cricket and polo to entertain the masses. The Welsh dragon flies proudly on my balcony in the centre of Milan as a symbol of my beloved homeland and all she stands for, and if Wales, to her shame, was ever to be incorporated onto the Union Flag, I would refuse to acknowledge it's existence. Finally, on the question of independence from English rule; there is no shame in failure, only in not having tried........FE GODWN NI ETO."
Phil from Wakefield reaccounts a historical tale:
"In the 12th century, so the story goes, Henry II of England asked an aged Welshman when he thought opposition to the English would cease. The old man replied:'This nation, O King, may now as in former times, be harassed, and in a great measure weakened and destroyed by your and other Powers ... but it can never be totally subdued through the wrath of man, unless the wrath of God shall concur. Nor do I think that any other nation than this of Wales, or any other language, whatever may hereafter come to pass, shall, on the day of severe examination before the Supreme judge, answer for this corner of the earth.' Nine centuries later the Welsh identity still survives, indeed it flourishes. Cofiwch Dryweryn!"
Danial from Swansea would:
" Like to say that I am Welsh and very proud to be welsh. I have just returned from travelling around the world and it was a relief to be able to say I am Welsh rather than English.I wouldn't want independance from the UK altogether as we are so intergrated, I just think that we should have a little more independance to run our own country within the UK."
Wayne has these observations:
"By reading all the problems with Wales, the Welsh people are all putting the blame on the government. It seems to me that some of the Welsh people want the government to take care of them from the cradle to the grave. What ever happened to the great attitude of 'can do' of the Welsh people? The defiant strong willed Welsh people that the English did not want to fight, but rather have all the kings and queens be prince or princess of Wales. They did not make this offer to the Scots or Irish."
Peter from Caerphilly argues against independence:
"Seperation from the U.K. is an unworkable idea and not possible. I'm proud of my nationality and my heritage as a Welshman but do not see that threatened by England. We can have a certain degree of self rule and still look to London for govermental rule. We are part of a great nation called Britan and are loyal subjects of the Princapality called Wales, why should that change ? The Union Jack may not actually contain St Davids cross but the spirit is there. We are equal members of a great team that is the United Kingdom and I think that those who want seperation from it would change their minds should Britania regain her past glories. Please don't desert the ship because she has taken on water, get down below with the rest of the crew and bail out the water as fast as you can."
Terence says:
"We are a Principality ... the Union Flag has no part of our lives. Fly ours everywhere you can. Go to France, Germany or any European country and play "spot the English flag" or the United States of America. They festoon everything with the Stars & Stipes."WALES is unique let's stay that way, so why should we fly the Union Flag? Take them down by Welsh Parliament decree. "I think it's time we Welsh demanded that our title of The Principality of Wales be put on all correspondence and whenever Wales is mentioned. "We have a Prince of Wales so where's the argument in not flying proudly the Draich Coch ... Wake up Cymru."
Angus from Swansea says:
"Look around the world ask yourself what is the cause of all the agro, killing and death? It is all fuelled by nationalism - all over people are dying being killed for the 'love' of their country. Of course I dearly love Wales as well as take great pride in the place, but lets be happy to be alive, love our family and most of all live and let live in the United Kingdom".
Tammy likes the Welsh flag:
"I think Wales has the nicest flag in the world. It's not some boring old colours and lines it's a bright bold dragon!"
Adam from Bridgend wants a new flag:
"What ever happened to the Welsh during the Union Jack creation? There should be a new flag created. They did it for Northern Ireland, now it should be for Wales. It should either have the dragon in the centre of the Saint David yellow and and black flag in the background. Until then I consider myself Welsh even if it does change .... Steven from Llanelli, I like your design. Campaign Wales, Wales."
Owen from Haverfordwest says:
"Born in Wales ... can not speak the language sadly ... live it, breath it, love it. Never been abroad. Have not seen half of my own country yet! Wales is my world look no further for anything ... we have everything!"
Hayley from Port Talbot is proud to be Welsh:
"I was born and brought up in Wales. I went to a Welsh school and speak Welsh fluently. I currently live in Germany and am more than proud to be Welsh! However I am frequently surprised and frustrated by how many people don't actually know that Wales exists, and that it is not part of England! It would be great if the Union Jack was modified. However I can't help but but think it unlikely that this would ever happen. Maybe we should all concentrate our efforts on other ways to ensure that Welsh spirit and culture survives, by teaching our children Welsh history and language and make them aware of their roots."
Mark from Swansea says:
"I really think that there should only be one flag flown in Wales, and that is the Welsh Dragon. In this day and age it's hard enough for everyone to have their own identities as it is, and all Wales has now is the glorious flag. We do not want the Union Flag, it does not represent us in any way, shape or form."Wales should be for the Welsh, I am proud to be Welsh ... not British but Welsh. I never use the word British as it has such imperalistic over-tones. "There are not many Welsh people in the world, so our flag needs to be flown from every building in Wales to show that we are proud of our mighty country."
Steven from Llanelli has these suggestions:
"I think that there should be a new flag to replace the Union Jack."There should be a flag divided into four quarters, with the flag of each Saint in each quarter, for example the following:- (1) the red cross on white background of St. George in the top left quarter;
(2) the white cross on blue background of St. Andrew in the bottom left quarter;
(3) the yellow cross on black background of St. David in the top right quarter; and
(4) the red cross on white background of St. Patrick in the bottom right quarter;
(5) and in the centre, a square with a map of the United Kingdom on it. "That would be a whole lot better than the Union flag that we have now, which doesn't have Wales represented on it.Or why not have a flag with a blue bacground with a green map of the UK and Ireland on it, with England being marked as white with a red rose on it, Scotland marked as blue with a thistle on it, Wales marked as red with a red dragon or daffodil on it, and Ireland as green with a shamrock on it?"
Gill from Pembrokeshire is a Welsh learner:
"Y Ddraig Goch yn bwysig iawn! In my opinion the Union Jack is not ours, I am proud of the Welsh flag - hello it's the best flag in the world! The English one ... well firstly the red is our blood , and it's nothing special (like their national anthem). Ok Ok perhaps I'm being mean, but I am very proud of being Welsh and being able to support Wales. I am now learning Welsh- it is challenging but I believe the language must be continued. As for Welsh independence ... the idea is blessed ideal dream. Firstly I think we should gain some independence like Scotland has and progress from there. To conclude Cymru am byth!"
Richard an expat living in Connecticut says:
"I was born in Swansea, graduated from the University College of Swansea in 1953, worked in Manchester and Guildford in England from 1953 to 1970, moved to the USA in 1970. Outside of the UK I am a Brit, born in Wales, you know that country connected to England on the West side, across the water from Ireland. But, talking, to someone who knows the difference, I am a Welshman - and, as you would expect, exceeding proud of that - I have many family members still in Wales, and elsewhere! My Connecticut car registration plate reads 'CYMRU-02'. Some other lucky Welsh person already has 'CYMRU-01'. Cymru Am Byth."
Bob from Bryncoch says:
"What all this debate on this page ignores is the fact the flag is a done deal; it won't be changed unless enough of us create momentum to force politicians to listen to us. Even then, I dare say that someone will find an ancient law that says that the union jack can only be changed if the house of lords agree on the third Thursday in July during a leap year..."
Big Taff from Gwent questions the politicans in Westminster:
"I totally agree, why should the politicans in London have the final say on what goes on the flag, and yet we have a Prince of Wales and where is he on this debate? Nowhere - that is the answer. Wales has lost a lot over the past why on earth should it lose the right to be included on the flag? If we are not good enough to be on the flag then we are not good enough to line the pockets of the fat cat politicans in London with our taxes and all the fat cat directors of companies in England. So I conclude either we are part of Great Britain and we get all the benefits that the English get or we go it alone and lets face it we could not do any worse."
Dave from Pembroke says:
"Typical that we should not be included. Ross from H'West has overlooked the point that our saint is not included, or should I say he is excluded. When it's good to be Welsh you see, the so-called boyos come out of the woodwork. When it's not so cool to be Welsh we get sidelined. We are a nation in our own right, but we are, like Scotland, a part of the UK, we should be represented as such in the Union Flag."
Olie from Gloucester (Caer Glow) discusses the issue of the Union flag and independence:
"I completely agree with my Welsh neighbours that you do need to be included on the Union Flag, I've always loved the fact that Wales has such a strong national identity, unlike England. I love the way in Wales you fly the flag with pride, where in England we fear flying St. George's cross in case of causing offence. As much as I agree with most of you on the flag issue, I think the issue of independence is another issue, it does at first sound really appealling granting all the British countries full independence, but I have doubts it would affect us all for the worse, for Wales needs England as much as England needs Wales. Perhaps an United States of Britain would be better - all having our seperate governments, but working in co-operation."
Delyth from the Rhondda disucsses the Welsh flag:
"I do not consider myself to be British, but a Celtic Welsh - I do not conform to the stereotypical 'British' way (though granted obviously not everyone does) and as such find it quite insulting that, as pointed out in previous comments, when I mention being Welsh to anyone outside the UK I'm immediately branded as being English. Though I'll agree that Wales does benefit from being part of Great Britain, as a country we do need more individualism. We have our own unique heritage and culture, our own language which is one of the oldest surviving languages in Europe - we are in many many ways completely different to every other country that forms Great Britain and we need to be recognised for this. I am glad we're not on the Union Jack - we were excluded from it intentionally but I feel it can only be a good thing to grant Wales the seperation and individualism it needs."
Ross from Haverfordwest argues against the idea of Wales gaining independence:
"The Union Jack consists of the crosses representative of saints, and as such reflects the religious heritage of Britain as a united nation. The very idea that Wales should be entirely independent of the rest of Britain is ridiculous, as we have no sustainable industry which could support our country as an economic competitor for more than a decade. What would the nationalists propose? "Joining the ever-so independent Euro to maintain economic competitiveness? And to those who believe that Scotland would prefer to be an independent nation are mistaken; they, like Wales, have been victims of the apathy of those who couldn't believe that such a vehement degree of xenophobic nationalism could be nurtured in their country. Less than 51% of Welsh voters wanted an assembly, as those who were happy with the status quo didn't feel an urge to vote, unlike the Plaid Cymru flag-bearers who would doubtless vote twice if they could. The United Kingdom is not simply a unity of convenience, it is not a tool by which some medieval dictatorial monarch rules the revolting Welsh and Scot peasants. This is a modern country, and with unity we have strength. Division and devolution both mean one thing. The reverse of progress, and moving backwards."
Sue from Whitchurch says:
"The Stuarts removed Wales from all royal symbols on the grounds that the Welsh were no longer of any consequence. The design of the Union flag is a deliberate consequence of that decision. Down through the ages there have been numerous chances for succeeding monarchs to correct this insult, but none have ever bothered to do this. As such, the Union flag remains a massive snub to the Welsh and, if we had any self respect as a nation, it would not be flown anywhere in Wales."
Allan who is now living in Florida has these thoughts:
"I also think it is a disgrace, Wales is in my mind it's own country. I moved to Tampa, FL four years ago and when Americans say to me oh your from England, I give them a look of disgust, and say no Wales actually. They usually say it's the same thing, I say well your a Mexican or a Canadian, (which they don't like too much). They are like, no it's different, and I say well it is all the same piece of land sandwiched between the Pacific Ocean and the Atlantic Ocean, tell me how it is different. They usually understand when I give them that example, and they usually apologise. I think Wales as a country needs to be promoted more, I was able to take my American wife home to Brecon last July 2002, she throughly enjoyed it. One other thing I would say to American's is that we will welcome you with open arms in Wales, Ireland and Scotland, unlike the English."
Hayley originally from South Wales but now living in Japan says:
"I think it's disgusting that Wales is not on the Union Jack. I'm proud to be Welsh and feel no pride towards the union jack and loathe being called British. I'm fully aware why Wales was not originally featured on the flag but surely this should change. Living and teaching in Japan I feel I'm facing a losing battle explaining to people that I am Welsh and that Britain does NOT mean England. Lobby your MP to get Wales onto the UK flag or join Plaid Cymru to get Wales out of the UK. Then Wales should get the respect the country deserves".
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