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Atlantis off Mumbles?

Mumbles

Last updated: 08 February 2007

Discover Mumbles very own version of Atlantis.

Here local historian Carol Powell recounts the 17th century flood which destroyed a section of land known as the 'Green Grounds'.

This site is now closed. Thanks so much for all your contributions, which we hope you'll continue to make to our updated site. You can find it by using the web address below. http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/southwestwales/hi/



The Angel family

Possibly from Neolithic times and certainly in the medieval period, the edge of a wooded Swansea Bay curved outside the 'Green Grounds' from the Mumbles Head to Margam Wood.

Indeed, there is a legend of a bridlepath from Penrice Castle to Margam Abbey passing some way out past Mumbles Head.

Then, on the morning of 20 January 1607, Grove Island or 'the Green Grounds,' was submerged when a great tidal wave (now thought to have been a tsunami) engulfed many places along the Bristol Channel from Carmarthenshire to Bristol.

The following story, featuring a court case concerning the ownership of the land some 200 years later, was retold by E.E. Rowse, following a visit to the Mumbles in 1896 and begins: It was in the autumn of 1890 that I found myself one glorious afternoon, accompanied by two congenial companions, parading the Mumbles Beach and enjoying with them the many extraordinary views, which the clearness of the atmosphere revealed to us.

Calling for a boat, an old sea salt on the look-out struck a bargain with us, and after a few minutes rowing we found ourselves far out in the bay, just under Mumbles Head.

We soon found the old salt very agreeable and full of traditional stories, which he related to us quite freely, and of which the following is the substance: "I remember the Mumbles for the last 70 years (Carol's note: back to 1826 or so). I am in my 79th year. I consider the sea has encroached nearly 100 yards since I was a boy, as the stumps and the roots of trees along the shore testify.

"I know all about the Misses Angels. There were two sisters, one of whom was blind for a long time.

"They lived in yonder house close to the shore (the first house after leaving Norton for Swansea) and during the winter, when the waves rolled over the protecting wall and threatened its destruction, they would move down to the Ship Hotel and remain there until the winter was over.

"One of the sisters lived in Angel Street, Swansea, in the house now known as the York Hotel, and died there. This was 30 years ago (the 1860s).

Sir John v the Angels

"I have seen the maps and ancient pictures, which prove that a large extent of land now submerged in the Bay and extending as far as the Green Grounds formerly belonged to the Angel family.

"When Sir John Morris's father wished to work a quarry in the Mumbles Hill, the Misses Angels insisted that he should pay them so much for 'way leave', but this old Sir John stoutly refused to do.

"The Misses Angels determined, however, to defend their rights and the case was tried at Carmarthen Assizes.

"After long contention, the judge expressed his dissatisfaction with the proofs of ownership, and the Misses Angels were mulcted in costs.

"However, they were not to be turned aside from their purpose, so they employed a barrister and had the case tried at Hereford, and here again the case seemed to be going against the maiden ladies.

"It happened that the counsel for the defendants had been detained on the high road, and that consequently their case proceeded without him.

"Fortunately, however, he arrived before its conclusion and, after apologizing to the judge, he was allowed to cross-question the ladies.

"This elucidated many facts, which had been withheld, and as the old documents were produced in court, which proved that all the lands in the neighbourhood of the church as far out as the Green Grounds belonged to the Angels, the jury was convinced.

"The judge gave them a verdict, which ultimately ruined Sir John Morris and caused him to leave the country.

"The plan of this ancient property showed distinctly a farm-house, where the sea now covers the 'Green Grounds'.

"Also a large meadow, which was crossed by a country stile: but all this has long ago disappeared and the very memory of its existence lingers only in the minds of the very aged.

"It appears that the public records of the reign of Edward IV speak of the great floods, which devastated Glamorgan, and that this tremendous storm continued for several days.

"But the most extraordinary flood recorded took place in the early part of the reign of James I when an Atlantic tidal wave swept up the channel scouring both coasts and doing fearful damage.

The Silver Wood and Grove Island

"It overwhelmed Grove Island, the farm and the meadowlands on it, effacing forever almost all traces of its exact whereabouts.

"However, it is well known by means of an old map that it was not far from Mumbles rocks and that it occupied the site now known as the 'Green Grounds'.

"I am getting an old man now, but I can remember my grandfather speaking of the traditions, which his ancestors handed down about the ancient wood, known as 'The Silver Wood' and how it gradually disappeared, and what I heard has often been confirmed during my life time.

"I remember some of our men fishing up the horns of an antelope, the ox and the stag and recovering tusks of the wild boar."

Thanking the old Salt for his interesting stories as we landed, we bade him farewell and then made our way to Swansea.

A little later, in 1899, Col. W. Ll. Morgan in his Antiquarian Survey of East Gower wrote: "A slab of rock was dragged up on the Green Grounds bearing marks of a chisel and cement. It is supposed to have come from the old house of the Angels, said to have existed on these lands."

But are these tales, legend or history? I find it captivating that out in the bay might lie the remains of that farmhouse the existence of which lives on now only in the imagination, through stories passed down through the generations and in the local saying, "You can hear them out on the Green Grounds."

Perhaps one day an examination of the site will prove or disprove this legend-for such it has become, since the map and documents are thought to have been lost some time over the intervening years.

E.E. Rowse's story was previously published in the Mumbles and Gower News in February 1970.


your comments

Geoff Grant, Tripoli
As a Geology student at Swansea University in the 80's we were shown the submerged forest, which should still be visible at low tide directly opposite the University grounds. We were given to understand that the trees were Pleistocene - ie they lived before the rise of sea level following the end of the last ice age (some 10,000 years ago.) Obviously if the forest existed in the 16th century there should be historical records and maps confirming that.
Fri Feb 22 11:10:54 2008

Roger Smith Clydach, Swansea
Like Glynden Trollope, I also remember visiting this area on geography lesson field visit with my school back in 1961. We pupils were told it was the site of an ancient woodland. There were still some stumps visible, when I took my own children there back in the 1983/4.
Wed Feb 14 08:48:05 2007

Helen Lloyd Jones
My mother always told me about the forest by the Mumbles that the sea had drowned. She used to say that the sand there was more like clay and you could make pots with it. She also told me she had seen stumps of trees in the bay as a child. Her grandmother had told her about the forest. Great grandmother Clement would have been alive in 1860.
Tue Feb 13 13:36:30 2007

Glynden Trollope Berkhamsted
I recall Tom Rowlands, Geography teacher at Swansea Grammar School, pointing out in the 1940's the stubs of trees in the bay between Blackpill and West Cross. Are they still to be seen?
Mon Feb 12 09:49:17 2007

Mrs Rosemary Rees, Gower
At last it is nice to see this article in print as I have always been told this information about the two ladies who farmed in Swansea Bay by my relations who have always lived in Swansea and some in Newton, Mumbles who have passed this story down through the generations to us. They also said that a boar ran up into Oystermouth from the farm area and they then called it Boar Road. They said there were numerous trees out in the bay.
Fri Feb 9 08:58:48 2007

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