Goth Vs Chav Wars

Lauren explores the stereotypes surrounding Goths and Chavs...

your comments

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Karen McDermott, Canterbury
Let me ask you this - has a goth ever made headlines for beating someone up or worse still, murdering them?? But no, click on any 'Ruthless park killing committed by drunk teens' type of headline and whatdo you get a picture of? Chavs. So who's the better group now?
Tue Jun 23 10:28:16 2009

Barbara from Falkirk, Scotland

One person here said when you leave school it's different. Like hell it is! My boyfriend is nearly 23 and got "jumped" by a group of "chavs" last Friday (right in front of me). The thing about this is he didn't even look like a Goth/Mosher etc although he does like heavy metal and so do I, but how were they supposed to know that?

Sure, he was wearing slightly baggy jeans and skate shoes with the dyed black hair but that was it! All we were doing was walking my dog along a canal bank and they went for him. One even said "that was just for looking at me". My boyfriend ended up in hospital with a head injury and severe back pain, luckily nothing was broken.

For some odd reason one of them actually spoke to me and apologised by saying "I'm sorry we're just some idiots from a youth hostel been drinking and looking for a fight...please don't call the police" I did call the police, like hell am I letting [them...get away with it. Another stopped me and said "he got it 'cause he jumped my cousin a few weeks ago with his mates" which is impossible 'cause he isn't even from Falkirk and is lucky if he goes there once a month.

So three different excuses. So it seems it's not a war between goth and chav: it's anyone! I'm not saying all chavs are like this, only the majority.

Thu Jun 4 16:36:15 2009

Sara Edwards from Carmarthen
...It's so true, everyone makes the situation out to be so so bad between chavs and goths!!! I also agree well done!
Tue Jun 2 17:45:07 2009

Erinyes-Hime LONDON!!

Goths v Chavs? Yer, that used to be the case in my area, if you wore all black, you'd get abused for it, the typical comment of "GOTH!" (but in truth, those people dont even know what a GOTH is), you would also get a pack of kids, four foot tall the lot of em' attack you in their large groups, with metal bin lids; a football or even a branch from a near by park.

It isn't "chavs" in general, it's anyone who believes dressing differently or looking different (like the shape of your nose) has to be "wrong."

I'm not a Goth, nor a Chav, nor do I promote labels, but from what I've seen, Chavs are attacked by the Ghetto, the Ghetto is more likely to defend the goths/emo's/alternatice etc.

Personally, its how you look physically that seems to get you targeted during the day - especially in schools, but school life is naturally hell. Its daft to label it "chavs vs goths" (its like a racism in itself...)lets face it, todays society is foolish.

Furthermore, most people believe Goths worship the devil, but who really should give a damn, they keep to themselves so should everyone else.

An example of undiverse schools that DO NOT promote individuality- Quintin Kynaston of St.Johns wood,%! 20or Mary Fildelis a Camden coventry school.
Tue Apr 7 09:29:44 2009

S
As a Goth, I've been the victim of some abuse. But let me tell you, not all chavs are idiots and not all idiots are chavs. People in general have good and bad qualities. Some are nice, some are horrible. The way people dress makes no difference
Wed Mar 11 18:50:48 2009

Rachel from Wales

At my school there are no emo/scene/goth people left except for me and my friends and we aren't really that 'gothy'. This is out of 1300 people most of the rest being chavs/preps, as all the goths moved to the school five minutes away where there's more diversity.

Goths are some of the most friendly people you can meet, I've been to conventions were they just walk up to you and say 'Hello'.

Chavs were I live are anti-social and always shout abuse. Even kids in primary school shout abuse at goth kids in sixth form.However I have met one chav that I've become great friends with. The thing is chavs just don't want to talk to us, and when they do they always ask questions like 'Why are you emo?', or 'Do you slit your wrists?' It's stupid really yet when you actually get talking they realise you're not different.

Wed Mar 11 14:42:08 2009

Hazel

I am considered by many to be a goth. I like that view of myself. I also have friends who look, at first glimpse as chavs, but are really nice. I love wearing black, baggy clothes, spikey jewellery and newrock boots.....but I like Eminem as well as Marylin Manson and other gothic stereotypical music for goths.

Where I live I dare not go out at night because of the reaction me and my flatmate have had walking home from the shop to buy dinner...glass bottles thrown at us. It isn't safe for anyone who dresses as I do to go out after dark here. I am also considered boring because I don't like to get drunk every weekend and I like to stay in where its safe...

Fri Mar 6 13:02:59 2009

Aimee and Oli from Brighton
This is to Craig from Derby...if anything, being a goth is a hell of a lot cheaper than being a chav. In my goth days, I used to buy plain black t-shirts for like a quid each, go to charity shops and customise all my stuff, writing band names on 'em and stuff. How is buying designer brand hoodies and gold jewellery cheaper?
Fri Mar 6 12:05:43 2009

Sam of Glasgow
The main issue is, I think to put your neck out for people and to find ways to fight to make your lives better. If you don't do that then people will never push to get what they want.
Thu Feb 26 13:33:04 2009

Bob from Cambridge
Well I suppose it's a lot to do with upbringing, if the family don't get on then it's normally the kids who suffer then take extreme measures to be different. All I can say is try mixing with some Christian kids, they're not as boring as you might think and they can make you see the sense of being alive not for materialism but for the spiritual journey Jesus has for you and to make you happy in the knowledge that you are someone not a number in today's society.
Wed Feb 18 09:55:54 2009

Ben Martin from America

I'm a chav, but a really nice one. I get funny looks off goths because I'm a chav, which I can understand because...most of us chavs do abuse them but when they get to know me you will realise I'm really nice.

...If a goth gives me mouth I'll give it back, but if they don't then I wont and I've never had one fight in my entire life.

I went to one of my mate's mates parties and he was a goth and he said to my mate, 'Why did you bring a chav to my party?' and my mate turned around and just said, 'Get to know him first' and we turned out to be great mates - I mean fantastic mates.

Tue Dec 9 17:15:26 2008

vampess nottingham

I'm not a goth I'm a rocker, but chavs yell over the street goth or emo and it's really annoying...I've already had lots of death threats off random people that I've done nothing wrong to, this isn't a war it's stupid. This isn't just chavs and goths it's rude boys/girls chavs goths emos rockers skaters grebs.

Mon Dec 1 11:01:59 2008

ERGh Llanelli
Personally I know loads of tidy "chavs" and I'm generaly classed as a "goth" due to my long hair, spikey boots, leather jacket etc. But to be honest if the "goth" actually took more of a violent attitude with the people who give them abuse and this image of peacefulness was lost I think that a lot less violence would be around in the long run because the "goth" would lose the image of being an easy target.
Mon Dec 1 10:52:05 2008

Dan Coulson from Weymouth Dorset
I am often labled as a goth, and often find peeople who consider themselves to be chavs find amusement im making fun of me for this.I believe the only reason the chavs decide to 'pick fights' with people labled as goths, because they know goths are generaly non-violent, peaceful, mature, and open minded people. With the world being what it is now, one can only anticipate to be criticized for having a different physical appearance or personality.
Fri Aug 22 09:11:24 2008

Dave from Bristol

I'm sorry.... but I could not agree more. People are called chavs based on the way they act, not look...they go out to get drunk...choose to fight and get drunk as opposed to go to college or work...wearing Burberry and listening to "Eminem" doesnt make someone a chav.

Emos or goths...now they are different...they stay at home... and do there own thing, they keep themselves to themselves... never do they go out to cause trouble or start fights...

...looks like you are trying to be too balanced and trying not to offend anyone, please walk round a town at night and try and tell me your views stay the same!
Fri Aug 15 16:12:19 2008

Jae, south london
we dont get this problem as much in london, probebly because we have basically every diffrant type of steriotype & person living here & have got real gangs to deal with...its just kids being kids, stop moaning about it and get on with life, think yourselves lucky you dont get shot over it...good article anyway tho...
Tue Aug 5 10:23:26 2008

Nathan From Mid Wales
i am a goth and have been since i was 16 im now 21, its a way of life and its how i feel comfortable. i hate chavs i really do but there is no "war". the vast majority of chavs are scum.i get people abusing me all the time i just ignore i find it rather childish and pathetic.im by no means your typical goth lol i love my Nintendo as i am a collector, im always happy and up for anything and i love having fun and hanging with friends, yesh i do love all gothic things inc death and all that jazz.i dont smoke or drink or do drugs or harm myself, people dont realise ! that goths are most prob the most polite and most loverly folk around.
Wed Jul 30 12:31:08 2008

Kirsty from Scotland

I'm a younger Goth...we all keep to ourselves and preferably out of trouble, I walk around the town where I live with a long leather jacket, big boots, and baggy clothes. When I go out the door I step into a war zone. I never give anyone abuse across the street...a few times I had bottles smashed over my head by chavs who have issues with what I wear.

...I am holding a protest against all this by having all my friends come to school dressed as stereotypical goths and we are going to walk into classes and show everyone just how scary we can be and how in-your-face we can be - we are reversing roles for the day....

Mon Jun 30 10:41:59 2008

Cat from the North

I think that what we need is for each of these groups to give each other a chance and have a conversation about their similarities and differences.

It would help their understanding of eachother. Through communicating they would be able to dispell the rumours about the stereotypes and give each other an idea of the true facts.

I've always thought a good topic to bring up would be the diversity of the alternative scene, it's definitely necessary that "chavs" understand that there is more than one type of "goth" or that listening to Marilyn Manson isn't really in keeping with it, and I'm sure that there's a lot "chavs" would like "goths" to recognise about them to.

On both sides though there are people who like to be stupid and blow it out of proportion, in the "goth" sub-culture it tends to be the Mansonite versions that are more likely to pick fights rather than Bauhaus fan types in my personal experience - the more mature goth's being peacful and keeping out of trouble. Maybe there's a similar situation with the Chavs - anybody care to enlighten us?

Mon Jun 23 11:40:16 2008

Anthony Stoker from Marske

I personally disagree with goths vs chavs. I mean chavs are always looking for violence, but the goths? Not really! They are peaceful and just want to be left alone (if one hasn't got anything nice to say about them), it's chavs who want to start fights, NOT goths!

Take me for example, I'm a goth and don't agree with stupid stereotypes, like being all depressed and like to cut themselves, in reality goths are far from that, they are intelligent and open-minded, some however may follow stereotypes (these are often teenagers that know too little about what goth is and just use it to try and scare people), the real gothic media would often call these "wannabe-goths or "poser-goths".

I'm saying it's chavs that need the real help here. I cant understand why people are still criticising goths with false ignorant stereotypes...
Wed Jun 11 13:17:54 2008

Beckeh from Manchester

People are entitled to look different, listen to different music and behave differently, is it such a crime to have our own personal identity?

I mean seriously, the "Chavs" aren't really different to "Goths", two eyes, one nose and a mouth, but yet, we all do it. We look down at other stereotypes because of their different music tastes, looks or behaviour. I think it's pathetic.

Mostly, I think "Chavs" call "Goths" because of differential music/clothes taste which I find stupid. We are all the same, people should just get used to it.

Wed Jun 11 13:08:09 2008

Steve from Luton

Well written article, but I don't think it's really a "war" between the two. There's more chavs and in large groups of testosterone-fuelled teenage boys there's always going to be a couple who want to show off by starting on smaller groups of "goths".

I suppose it's all part of growing up, there have been these shows of strength by adolescent males for thousands of years, and they're always going to try and show off.It's unfortunate, but it's always going to be there. "Goths" and "Chavs" aren't going to be around forever, their old equivalents of the "mods" and "rockers" were sometimes just as bad if not worse, but it's not really a war, just some people trying to fit in and show off to their friends, and another group, of almost opposites, unfortunately have to bear the brunt of those insults and showing off by the "chavs". Eventually they'll grow out of it, and until then we're just going to have to live with it and try and get on with our lives.

Tue May 27 13:53:26 2008

Luke:)
I don't see the point in people criticising people on the way they look and the type of music they listen to. I listen to both kinds of music and I'm supposidly a chav...why do people care as long as you're a good person inside? I honestly think that people should just accept people for who they are!
Thu Apr 24 15:43:54 2008

Jess

Ok, I got bored after reading the first few responses. I am an emo/goth/punk/ska kid/whatever. Lots of my friends are chavs/townies/normal. But to be honest, we're all young right?...so we might as well do it how we want.

This isn't a "war". It's what has always existed in society. It's differentiation. It's freedom of expression...Sure, we can all agree to tolerate each other. We can all say we won't discriminate on the grounds of clothing. But let's be honest, if it's not this, it's gna be something else. Good article tho...

Thu Apr 3 10:23:05 2008

A Chavez, Birmingham

First of all Chav is a term of abuse used to denigrate and deride people in society who are regarded as somehow uncouth, threatening, of low-intelligence and, well not quite as middle-class as us (quite telling really given that "Goth" came out of Punk a largely working class, rebellious subculture expressing, amongst other things, revulsion and disdain for all things middle-class).

The us being those who choose, without, irony of ironies, any thought whatsoever, to impute all manner of behaviour and attitudes to the "Chav" in question...The term Goth however has different connotations. It's usually self-attributed and like any other "sub-culture" is nothing more than a fashion statement. It represents a period in life that adolescents pass through on their way to adulthood...Yes, a whole series of silly beliefs about what it is to be a Goth have developed around this passing fad. But the same goes for any sub-culture. You name it everyone is an "individual" and everyone is expressing their individuality and doing so by, err, not being an "individual"...Sums the whole thing up really. Tolerance for silly "individualistic" middle-class "Goths" and intolerance towards the "Chavs" (codeword for working class).
Wed Mar 19 15:00:16 2008

S
At my school it has always been the Goths/Emos against the Chavs it is normally the chavs at the emos throats. Yes i get labelled emo for the way I dress and the music I listen to, but I don't want to go cutting myself or committing suicide. I just want to be who I am but some people can't accept that and single us out. There is no reason for this it is mainly anti social behaviour or a way of trying to impress your friends/group. This is getting to be a big issue to all teenagers everyone at my school has a label. There is a "war" between the Emos/Goths and chavs and it is an ongoing thing - its not going to stop! It is also in a way a form of bullying so next time you go to label someone - think about their feelings and how it is making your image look! (:
Wed Mar 19 10:11:41 2008

Kirei Karnage from Leicester
I think it's ridiculous. We are all different and we should just accept one another.
Wed Mar 19 09:14:18 2008

Barry
The "Goths" take alot of abuse from the "chavs", the "chavs" just seem to hate us for no reason and fight with us because they know we won't fight back. Most of them would back off if we stood up to them.
Fri Mar 14 12:40:00 2008

Naomi from Leeds
I get called "emo" simply for how I dress. I listen to chav music sometimes..hell..I got stared at for knowing a cascada song word for word and dancing like soulja boy yesterday..I have chav mates..hell I used to be one until I got banned from the shops in my area for shoplifting and being antisocial..I now wouldnt swap my friends for the world!I have had a rock the size of my hand thrown at my head..stones..ice balls..wood..just general abuse..and most of the time I just walk away..its pathetic..people need to grow up..and yes..even all the "goths/emo/scene kids/punks" cuz at the end of the day they do hold part of the blame!at the end of the day..we are all people on the same planet..whether you like it or not..just grow up and get over it.
Fri Mar 14 12:32:21 2008

Giles Pearman from Leeds

There's basically no 'war', so to speak, between chavs and goths, because goths are a generally peaceful subculture based on tolerance for others and the right to self-expression. A lot of goths I know are actually pacifists. Of course, this peaceful 'no violence' philosophy makes goths an easy target for chavs as they know they will rarely fight back. Maybe other people have met peaceful chavs, but I have met hundreds and not a single one has ever differed from the cultural stereotype of being violent, offensive and generally unpleasant people. Goths have not started fighting in a war, they have started fighting back against intolerance and hatred, and against people trying to stop them expressing themselves freely. Some people may now say 'well chavs are also simply expressing themselves'. True, they may be, but they are behaving in a destructive and antisocial manner in the process, and this should not be tolerated.

Overall, goths are a peaceful subculture, more interested in building communities than destroying them, but if you back anyone far enough into a corner, they're going to lash out.

Thu Mar 6 13:37:55 2008

Roxy
From my point of view I don't understand the whole fight between 'goths' & 'chavs'. People should be able to wear what they want and be able to walk down the street without getting labelled. Who cares whether or not you wear trackies or skinny jeans? Everyone has different styles and outlooks on life. Individuality is the key. Great article (:
Mon Feb 18 10:41:54 2008

Leanne from Carmarthen

I get called a 'chav' by gothic people an 'emo/grunge/goth' by chavs, but I have friends from both stereotypes although I have to say I do believe it is the chavs that start the fights and emo/grunge/gothic people who try to keep their head down.

Where I live...there has been several fights ending in a couple of emoish people getting smashed up. Nothing as bad as that has ever happened to me but every time I go to town with my mates some chavs have chucked things at me and my friends - rocks, sandwiches, sweets, anything they can find really and have been verbally abused my most of them.

All times though I have kept my head up high and laughed at them coz they're that sad and pathetic to waste their lives making other people's life a misery. If chavs hate emoish people whinning so much maybe they should leave them alone. Peace out xx

Mon Feb 18 10:30:33 2008

Lili Thompson from Torquay
Going to address Craig from Derby here. You turned chav because goth clothes were too expensive? Then you were never goth in the first place. Being goth is all about individuality, not looking good.
Fri Feb 15 09:45:58 2008

Katie from Hampshire

I agree. It really is VERY biased...I can see that you tried to keep unbiased. But just reading it, it seems that you are swinging towards the chavs being worse. And to be honest, everyone gets stereotyped. Preps, Skater, Emos, Chavs, Weirdies, etc. It's just teenagers wanting to be able to call themeselves top.

Personally I favour the Skinnies, Studded and Tight Jacket look, it may seem that it's slightly 'Emo-ish' but I would prefer it if no one labelled me. Unfortunately they do. I can't really help that.

The 'war' against Chavs and Goths/Emos in my school isn't really that much of a problem, I don't know about other schools. But people got over themselves after time, although there always is those few people who still want too label everyone.

Tue Feb 5 09:08:36 2008

simon portsmouth
I think that this article is very very biased. I can see the way you've tried to keep it fair on both sides but it hasn't worked. Chavs and goths are both idiots, just be yourself, i dress in band shirts and jeans and when I go...out on a friday or saturday night I get no stick from people at all, they dont even seem to notice that im a "metal head", "goth" or whatever. I think it's just one of those things that you grow through so when you're at school 'Expect it' but when schools over - it's different. Also don't be so frightened of people they're made of flesh and bones just like you.
Thu Jan 31 12:54:36 2008

Pammy from Kent
Emos, Chavs, Goths, Scen Kidds whatever. People should be more mature than to label themselves and each other...Stereotypes ruin our lives. As teenagers all we care about is what other people think of us, so I think we should be allowed to do this, regardless of what clothes we wear.
Thu Jan 31 12:49:46 2008

Will Jones, Telford

I personally believe that what defines a chav is the personality. I wouldn't say I was a goth, more a grebo, I dont have £100 Rockports. I have pants boots from TK Max, but I do not get judged by my friends (goths). A person wearing trackie bottoms and baseball cap is not a chav, he's just a person that enjoys wearing that clothing, a chav is the sorta person that comes towards you plastered...and try to fight you for just being there, that asks for a ciggie with not a word of thanks or please...

I hold doors open, I say 'Good morning' to people, the reason why I'm on this page in the first place is because I lent a guy (chav btw) my lighter (a proper zippo one) £40's worth and he refused to give it back, instead he pretended he'd given it to his mate, who said that his other mate had it, who said he didnt know what I was talking about, until it resorted to "What are you going to do about it?" I'm not exactly the most butch guy in the world, and when you have five guys twice your height, just itching for a fight, not exactly a fair one is it? As far as I'm concerned, I have no time for them, never will...

Thu Jan 31 12:28:06 2008

Craig from Derby
I used to be a goth but other goths looked down on me cos i couldn't afford £100 rock boots. So I turned chav cos the gear is cheaper and you can get it from charity shops and ebay cheap. Goths dont like people who is poor. A leather goth coat costs £150 and you can get a nike hoodie off eBay for less than £10 even after postage. Goths wear silver and chavs like gold but you can get cheaper gold stuff...than some of the silver goth stuff.
Thu Jan 24 09:54:47 2008

Aca
Ha ha I love what lil zee is saying he sums up my argument really, but additionally in my experience they're are chav gangs going around areas beating up anyone slightly different to them. One of my best friends was walking through a village and hes a grunge fan so hes got long messy dark hair and a band t-shirt, and he got the crap beaten out of him, by a group of five or so chavs...these idiots prowl round where I used to live just beating up anyone that looks different to what they think is normal.
Thu Jan 17 11:54:19 2008

Aca, Rome ;-)
Ha ha I love what lil zee is saying he sums up my argument really, but additionally in my experience they're are chav gangs going around areas beating up anyone slightly different to them. One of my best friends was walking through a village and hes a grunge fan so hes got long messy dark hair and a band t-shirt, and he got the crap beaten out of him, by a group of five or so chavs...these idiots prowl round where I used to live just beating up anyone that looks different to what they think is normal.
Thu Jan 17 11:54:07 2008

Black rose
Peace to all goth and emokind alike sorry I can't say the same about chavs tbh sorry guys but you've done way too much...
Thu Jan 17 11:52:18 2008

Capital Goff
Right - you people who call yourselves emo REALLY need to get a life. Emo is one of the worst things in the world that you could EVER label yourself. 'Goff', I'd have to say, is better anyday than chavs...STOP talking in text form 'cos its really annoying and hard to read...and calling yourself punk? Get a life. That died years ago...everyone nowadays is so fake and are either Br00taL or wannabe-everything going, it's seriously stupid.
Thu Jan 17 11:48:38 2008

Jodie from Bromsgrove
I'm 'Goth' as they call it and I just gotta say one thing: THIS ARTICLE ISN'T ALL TRUE! Two of my bestest friends are chavs, but so what? I grew up with them, I have a laugh with them....I'm friends with more chavs too. However, when I do go down town or to the park, I get so much hassle from other chavs who think they're clever to call me 'Greebo' or demand when I last slit my wrists. There isn't a war going on, but there is a bit of a fight going on, and I myself have had to defend myself physically and verbally more than a few times from these so-called 'chavs' but then sometimes goths can be as bad, like the other day I saw a group of them walking down the street and shouting 'CHAV SCUM!' at any young person who looked even vaguely chav...The majority of Chavs need to get some braincells that actually work and so do some Goths maybe.
Mon Jan 14 09:03:44 2008

Ivan from norwich:

I myself am a goth/emo. I love the clothes, the music and just everything about them. Most chavs have a go at me at my school, so I hang arround in a group of people much like myself. We have had several gang fights. I believe chavs [are] just bad mannered kids who don't even try.

It's annoying really, how chavs don't take the time to talk to us and get on with us, instead of just judging us as a bunch of freaks as soon as they make eye contact with us.

Fri Jan 4 10:20:18 2008

Jay from Peterborough

The goth v.s chav thing is really ridiculous. It's a constant problem, that won't die down until the next trend comes. Just like the mods and the rockers, the hippies and the skins. People put themselves into pigeonholes as much as anyone else does. People make conscious decisions to choose how they dress.

The thing is that chavs have been constantly given a negative image, a hard image. Whereas Goths are weird and quiet. SO The quiet people go, '...I must be a goth' and get into that subculture'. The others go, 'People say they're well hard, and they have power, the power of fear, over people, I wanna be like that, powerful and hard, I must be like a chav'. People shouldn't judge totally on a way someones dressed, as they may be nice people, but it is a large part of the youths personality, as it reflects and creates it.

Dress a goth in chav clothes they'll act differently, dress a chav in goth clothes he will too. Chavs are members of this society, usually working class, and don't do so well in school, unfortunately. SO remember gothy people when your working your nice job, with your good wage, cos you WERE a goth (trust me you'll grow out of it a bit) just think back to Nigel or Darren or Kev, and think he's cleaning the toilets in McDonalds, because [people] like me enforced a stereotype of anti-social behaviour and poor English onto him, therefore creating a self-fufilling prophecy...
Thu Jan 3 10:14:46 2008

Euan from glasgow
Ok I guess I'm more punk than anything else..but punks/goths etc - we're closer together than neds and chavs. I mean walking down the street playing there crappy dance beats and strangled hamster music from their phones acting like they're untouchable...trying anything on anyone...I guess the point has already been made amongst these comments that not all hate each other, a lot do get along when no one starts anything. But like the article says some chavs/neds do walk around looking for a fight, and in groups too. I'm not saying that punks/goths don't but from my point of view it's usually chavs/neds that start it.
Thu Jan 3 09:23:42 2008

Travis from Belfast
People look down upon me cause I like the darker stuff, but I don't self harm or mock other people, I don't smoke, do drugs, or drink often. People say my music's kak especially 'The Tubes' (male version of Plastics) and what do I see in it?...people have daft expectations of me, I must wear black always, I must wear dark eye makeup, black lipstick, have to have my hair black - well I don't! I wear dark jeans and a band t-shirt and some spike jewellery. Some times, some times I paint my nails, and I have some bats and a black skull around my room, but that's called being yourself and not following the sheep.
Tue Dec 4 10:34:41 2007

Gothic Tinkerbell
All Chavs think that us Goths are weird so they single us out. Me and my friends have always been ridculed and rejected for being ourselves and now no one bothers us because they know that we're not going to take what the throw at us every day and we do stand up for ourselves
Wed Nov 28 12:04:38 2007

Catherine From Pembrokeshire

Hmmm, well here is my biased opinion: I believe that Gothic people are different but in a better (better as in more polite and well mannered) way. Chavs are mainly violent and anti-social (hence ASBOs). Although I do give every person I meet a chance it doesn't stop me judging them.

The facts are that people are only human and nobody can be blamed for how they feel towards another person. I also don't believe there is a big problem here. I think it's just a widespread difference of opinion with some bad outcomes in the more 'urban' and less wealthy areas.,/p>

I'm not trying to blame anyone or catergorize anyone, but I truly believe through the things I have seen that the people who get called 'goth' and 'emo' are the victims. I myself have been called 'goth' on countless occasions, but the truth is, I like it, I enjoy the fact that some people just don't understand why I wear the clothes I wear and listen to heavy metal - it makes me feel like I have a better chance of succeeding in life.
Mon Nov 26 12:26:45 2007

Dogmeat66 from Poole
Chavs outnumber us "goths" by a ridiculous amount...well they do where I live anyway....and so it is generally the chavs that start the fights as most people dont want an army of yobs on their backs! It's really never gunna change and I can't see anyway that anyone can stop it. theres no point saying: "Why cant everyone get along?" because they can't. They never have and they never will. And what can be done about it? Nothing.
Thu Nov 22 09:35:36 2007

Lil Zee from South Africa
Hmm.. goths/emos /punk/chavs/jocks/ to the nth degree .. there are so many different types of people it's crazy. In my personal view...I'm probably a hybrid of goth/emo/punk definately not chav/jock that's for sure. I would go as far as saying that emos and goths 99% of the time get on with their lives and don't care about anyone else, even though we can be highly eccentric. I honestly feel like jocks and chavs are the ones going around and getting up in our faces. Let's face the facts that they are the majority (thanks to MTV, and all the 'beauty magazines') which create the norm of a chav-type person. SO basically they think everyone must be like them... well small news flash there are some of us who enjoy the dark side of life (YIN/YANG) and it doesn't mean we're evil anyway, it just means we are drawn to the darker things in life like the music we listen to, and the social places we go to. We simply don't like being so 'Beverly Hills preppy' is it so hard to understand? Just back up chavs we sure as hell don't impose our culture onto you that is for certain.. so don't on ours... peace (for real)
Wed Nov 21 09:22:12 2007

melissa from southampton
I myself am not 'goth', nor 'emo' and to be honest I don't want to be. I have no problem with the two labels in anyway, not even chav. I'm just happier and feel more comfortable to be in no label whatsoever. When I get called 'goth' it makes me smile, coz i don't think i could be a goth if I tried. It seems they know nothing of the labels, yet feel they have to judge it, because I think either they don't understand it, or because its too different. I think if goths and chavs want to be treated better by each other, and want to be accepted, then it has to work both ways! They both need to respect each others differences. do they realy want thousands of clones anyway? People should be free to wear what they like, listen to what they like...because of it, both chavs and goths. If you get verbally abused, then just keep yuur head up and be yourself...I went through it for years, and believe me when they know they can't break you they move on to someone else, and if everyone did the same, this problem wouldn't take the majority - much love and respect.
Mon Oct 29 09:09:36 2007

Christie from Somerset
We have such a bad problem here. There are several "chav" groups situated around my hometown who fight against each other...but as soon as one group of chavs gets so much as a turned back from someone they're pickin on, all of the groups form together to make an army...Chavs need to learn that just because they get bored easily and they dont understand the meaning of different, it doesnt mean to beat (up) innocent by-standers...this is a big issue for me...i hope it is for every1 else...thank u.
Fri Oct 26 13:18:13 2007

laura from doncaster
I'm a goth. I love the attention. I used to get bullied and beaten up all the time....I think once people grow up and learn the basic facts than the fights will stop - just like they did with me - labels are great.
Thu Oct 18 11:53:27 2007

matt aka gothicsoldier

It's not about the music, yeah it's a symbol of who we are, and it's not about what you wear, its about being who you WANT to be, what you WANT to look like, what you WANT to listen to. Also you dont have to wear all black or sombre colors I know a few that wear regular street clothes that are more goth than at least 75 percent of the people of post on this page.

But the point is if you listen to the music or dress the part just to call yourself goth, you should be ashamed of yourself, making the rest of us look bad, so take off the insane amount of makeup, because that doesn't make you goth, it just make you look like one of those icp freaks.

Wed Oct 17 12:36:49 2007

Matt aka gothicsoldier
It's not about the music, yeah its a symbol of who we are, and its not about what you wear, its about being who you WANT to be, what you WANT to look like, what you WANT to listen to, also you dont have to wear all black or sombre colors I know a few that wear regular street clothes that are more goth than at least 75 percent of the people of post on this page. But the point is if you listen to the music or dress the part just to call yourself goth, you should be ashamed of yourself, making the rest of us look bad, so take of the insane amount of makeup, because that doesnt make you goth, it just makes you look like one of those icp freaks.
Thu Oct 4 09:14:01 2007

Christian
I hate chavs at my school. We're always having fights, I'm a grunger and they just take the mickey out of me!
Wed Oct 3 17:14:48 2007

Rebec
I think they shunt argue n jst get on wif there lives cs its stupid to argue n stuff al time cos of nothin!
Wed Oct 3 09:24:41 2007

Morgan Rose-Essex
i'm a 'Goth' i listen to death metal i.e decapitated, bloodbath, obituary, cannibal corpse..its my fave musik..^^but yeah i've been alternative for a good couple of years and when i was younger i did get a load of abuse, but as i got older..i guess they got bored of me lolwhich is good coz now i can go out and wear what the hell i want...i just wear what i feel comfortable in and if ppl dont like then tough they just have to deal with it.i think everyone should dress the way they want basically..if they get abuse then ignore them....they will get bored eventually.the whole war thing is a bit pathetic coz i dont go around beating ppl up..its pathetic...if your angry about whatever is going on in ur life then take up kick boxing or karate and chanel it in a positive way..then everybody is happy.XDEverybody be it 'chavs' or 'goths' should just be there selves and respect each other!xXxXxXxXx
Mon Oct 1 09:38:18 2007

Georgie Saunders from Taunton
How did we let the situation become this bad?! people are being seriously hurt because of the 'war' between 'chavs' and 'goths'. My friend got seriously beaten up the other day just because he had long hair. what kind of people do that?? on the other hand i know a lot of 'chavs' who would never dream of doing anything, its the small minority. I dont see why people should be put in boxes. apparantly i am a 'goth' because i listen to certain music and dress in a certain way. people are so shallow. I have even been stopped in the street by a group of 'chavs' who demanded to see 'the he cuts an my wrists'. what the hell is up with that?? let us get on with our lives!
Thu Sep 27 09:18:44 2007

Amie
If I must label myself, then yes, I'm a goth. And In my personalopinion, Goths get picked on more than chavs. Because Chavs all look the same. Honestly, My sister is a chav and we fight like cat and dog. My friends and her friends stand on either side of the road and have really bitchy arguments.In my opinion, chavs start stuff. I would never start on a chav, nor any of my friends. But they all start on us. I get stuff thrown at me everyday,and do you know what?I don't care. I am what I am and I don't give a damn.
Mon Sep 24 16:06:51 2007

shnnon form chester
i am an emo and its the chaves and the plasticks that start on us so we make anti plastick sites and anti chave sites thats y we do it tho because the h8t us so do we and when it all passes they still think aboute it and start to terorise us agen so this is what i have to say I H8T CHAVES AND PLASTICKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mon Sep 24 09:43:24 2007

Luke from Manchester
None of you know what you're on about... Greebos and Emo don't exist anymore. Greebo was an 80s word for someone with dreadlocks, 3/4 length jeans and DMs who listened to Pop Will Eat Itself, Public Image Limited (PiL), Ned's Atomic Dustbin, Wonderstuff, etc. Emo stopped in the early 90s and their fashion was anything they wore in the street - it was predominately songs like 'the Sweater Song' by Weezer and then it was bands like Sunnydale Real Estate but people now call it anything that's emotional, by that rationale, Counting Crows should be Emo or Deftones should be Emo but people lump them all into the same category because the media has and they don't know anything about anything and neither do you... Kids into Marilyn Manson are about as goth as a paper bag, listen to Fields of The Nefilihim or Sex Gang Children for real goth.
Mon Sep 10 15:37:05 2007

Cloe from Manchester
What is the point? It is mostly chavs that start on goths if a goth walks past a chav if the goth takes a single look at them and thinks ok easy target lets beat them up but goths don't hurt chavs no wonder many goths hate chavs because goths are always victimised.
Mon Sep 10 15:34:19 2007

Dan from Newport.

The trends will change but the reality will always be there. The new breed of jock is the chav, unfortunately, they are less associated with sport, more violence. I know I'm stereotyping, but this is what I've been brought to after being punched in the back of the head onto a running railway line by a "chav". And after one of my friends had a rock about quarter the size of a brick thrown at his head by a "chav". Just because of the clothes we wear and the music we listen to.

What gives them the right. I even did some research, and apparently pedestrians are more intimidated by a group of chav youths being on the streets than a group of "emo" or "goth" youths. The emos are just a scapegoat for the chavs, what could be more fun for them than being able to intimidate and attack a social group because they know they're not very likely to fight back. There's loads more I could say, but I've probably annoyed a few people, I think i made my opinion clear though. Peace_x
Wed Aug 29 13:03:59 2007

Bert From North wales

This whole thing is getting on my nerves. Me and my freinds get names shouted at us all the time because we are "emo" or"goth". I can't really go out around where I live without having some kids yell names and throw stuff.

Yes, I have to admit sometimes we do shout stuff back or something but really what do you expect when you get so much abuse shouted at you?

Before now one of my friends has had to get in contact with the police because of the abuse they've had from chavs...if anyone has a problem with people who dress diffrently, think diffrently or act diffrently then they should grow up.

Tue Aug 28 10:38:59 2007

Alex D from Devon

I really don't even inderstand why people would willingly call themselves 'goths' or 'chavs' because at the end of the day, all it amounts to is more aggravation and distress.

What really gets me, is that especially in school, as soon as there is a new 'phase' loads of people latch onto it.

I understand the feeling of wanting to fit in, but I like what I wanna like, and I don't care what others think of me. If they're too shallow to look past my music taste or the way I dress, then fine. But they don't need to cause fights over it. But also, in some places, the safest thing is to fit in.

At the end of the day, would you rather be remembered by being in fights over stereotyping, or remembered by having the confidence to be yourself?

Thu Aug 23 16:26:57 2007

King of Goths from Shrewsbury
I'm a goth and don't exactly like chavs very much. Personally I think that the chavs are the one's looking for a fight, not the goths. I have several goth friends who would never fight with a chav unless they had no other choice. I don't agree with all of this violence between groups - my girlfriend is a bit of a chavette and I would die for her, so there you are opposites don't have to fight each other. Like I said I don't like chavs very much but thats only because of the way some of them treat me and my friends.
Mon Aug 6 16:19:02 2007

holly cooper from chesterfield
To Grace from Kettering: you are putting all the blame on the 'chavs'. I do not agree with this! Yes a lot of the time chavs do stereotype and I can bet my money on it that so do you. So next time you want to go around putting the blame onto other people take a good look in the mirror first.
Fri Jul 6 13:34:26 2007

Jago Hall
I personally think greebo's etc. are pathetic but I also think chavs are as well to be honest. I listen to all sorts of music and people class me as a chav but I have an emo fringe so someone tell me what I am please? Someone I think everyone who fights over what they look like is dumb anyways thanks.
Fri Jul 6 13:32:59 2007

Adams from Carms

I think that when you strip down both of the immediate differences between the two groups they are both very similar in principle.

Some chavs are narrow minded, 'Everyone thinks Chavs r better cause like i think so', show the inability of these basically very stupid people. However Goths have the same problem as some believe that only their group is picked on and prejudiced by other people.

People complain about chavs hanging around in large groups, but go to Carmarthen Park on a saturday lunchtime and tell me goths don't do the same.

Goths claim that chavs incite violence but the fact remains that these people go around in black capes, dog collar necklaces and spiky hair tells you that they don't really fit the bill of pacifists.

I do have friends that are chavs and are emos and although they're not extreme, you do get an insight into their mentality.

In fact the only real difference that I can see between goths and chavs is that chavs tend to be a bit more instinctive ie you look at one and they'll hit you, while goths whine more, ie if you insult one you're going to have a earache for at least the rest of the day. Oh and great article by the way.
Wed Jun 27 10:01:11 2007

em from England

Again quote..."I would rather be a chav than be a goth because goths get mocked more than what chavs do, and goths get the mick taken out of them and everyone thinks chavs are betta" - slightly narrow minded? There's nothing to say that goths get mocked more - it's probably based on who you are around.

"Goths" will happily say the alternative and where I'm from, chavs get the mick taken out of them more. Everyone doesn't think that chavs are better. Stating 'everyone' just proves how you think that people should all think the same. It just depends on who your friends are and who's afraid of being different.
Fri Jun 22 14:45:27 2007

Zxephanye Malyn, Byrmyngham

I'M A GREABO! And I'm proud! AND IT'S NOT A PHASE! Anyone that goes through it as 'just a phase' shouldn't have been one in the first place [no offence]. I love chavs! They're so funny! [except of course when they hurt your family and friends and try to murder you, but that's a minority]

And I must say : punks, goths, emos, rockers, metalheads. They are the BEST! I love 'em! And it's NOT a stereotype! Stereotypes are rude. It's a subculture! Almost...a way of life for some people. And the different subcultures need to shut up, stop fighting and get along. Only THEN can you TRULY be happy in YOUR subculture! Don't worry, be happy! Lots of love, The Happy Clan, [THC]
Fri Jun 22 14:06:34 2007

tim
I think you both look silly to be honest.
Fri Jun 15 17:45:49 2007

Charl, Pembrokeshire
Quote: "Becci Sumbler from FarnboroughI would rather be a chav than be a goth because goths get mocked more than what chavs do, and goths get the mick taken out of them and everyone thinks chavs are betta xxxxFri May 18 12:58:22 2007" That is not what it's like where I'm from.
Tue Jun 12 15:37:57 2007

welsh wayne

There is obviously a huge subculture that seems to have particularly arisen within the last few years. There have always been the few goths/grebs or chavs...but the media has influenced it more so recently through music and TV etc and there seems to be more and more groups of this nature.

It's a sub-culture people decide they want to be part of. I don’t think I have ever seen a 60-year-old goth walking down the street. In five - ten years most goths/emos/chavs will have probably grown out of their 'phase' anyway. It seems to me that people (under 25 in particular) feel the need to belong to something in order to feel secure with themselves and general teenage angst.

With less and less people being brought up without a religious background or interest perhaps dressing/acting differently is an alternative way to feeling part of something, giving the same sort of security as religion used to. Either way anyone who dresses differently or has opinions or views out of the 'norm' is always going to get picked on, that’s nothing new! Its human nature to attack what we don’t understand or care to. If you dress differently to attract attention don’t complain when you get it!
Tue Jun 12 15:09:04 2007

Eddie Green from Cambridge
"Innit Laads" I know a few Goth types in the Military / Forces. At the end of the day Goth is a type of music, that came out of the punk to post-punk era of the late 70's and early 80's. The term was light-heartedly applied to folks who listened to the music.Goth has nothing to do with whiny teenagers who listen to metal and dress in black. Metal is and always has been the antithesis of Goth. Yet corporate music labels have twisted the term to help them sell records to clueless 14 year olds.
Mon Jun 4 13:34:54 2007

Someone =)
I have respect for both chav's and goths/emo's to an extent. I suppose its ok to refer to yourself as a stereotype, but when that interferes with your personal opinions of ordinary people then why should you expect acceptance and respect? Like if someone is spotted all in a white hoodie then they are automatically labeled as a "chav" by goths or emos, or when a person wears converse they are known to be emo or grunge. Basically, it goes like this: if you want to be accepted for "who you are" and all the other stuff your stereotyped group goes by, then make a start by treating everyone the way you want to be treated. Just easy stuff mahhn, not rocket science. It's called manners =)
Mon May 28 10:49:01 2007

Lewis Allport from Darlow
I suppose u could call me a chav, I wear chav clothes and listen to rave music but I dont have anything against goths and are friends with a few of them. I do agree that it is usually the chavs who start the fights but that is only a minority, I am a chav and I haven't had a fight in my life, it's only some chavs that let the rest down.
Mon May 28 10:26:14 2007

becci sumbler from farnborough
I would rather be a chav than be a goth because goths get mocked more than what chavs do, and goths get the mick taken out of them and everyone thinks chavs are betta xxxx
Fri May 18 12:58:22 2007

Monkeyzex

Generally this is something that is never going to change and it's just as bad for both sides. I am essentially more on the geek/skater side (emo if that is different regionally). I always had chav friends and they are always first to say that this classification is pathetic and pointless and that they are more mature and above it all, but are generally first to be publicly aggressive and physical and make these jokes

Emo people will just moan to their friends, but they will actually use it as topics of conversation and actively bitch about it, chavs seem to just have their 'hatred' on impulse. It is petty, and people can't accept clothing, music, or even the sport choices of the opposite and this is lack of respect but that's a much larger issue. At least thats the story in my rural area
Wed May 9 09:28:56 2007

Innit Laads from Hull
The answer to both these problems (whiny goths, violent chavs) is Mandatory Conscription. Every one of these kids needs a life-lesson at the hands of Her Majesty's NCO cadre. It would teach the "goths" not to be such whiny little pantywaists, and would discipline and channel the rampant aggression of the "chavs". At very least, they would learn unarmed combat, the better to sort each other out with. Just my opinion. - A Soldier
Tue May 8 09:40:30 2007

Robert Felgate, Norwich
I used to believe that people dressed 'goth' to differentiate from normal society to try and find themselves a place where they were happy with how they acted and looked. Youngsters these days dont understand the values behind alternative dress sense.I love rock music but would never succumb to labelling myself into a stereotype.In my personal opinion, be them goth, chav, emo or whatever, anyone willing to put themselves into the stereotype should be prepared to accept the characteristcs that come with it.
Fri May 4 11:57:18 2007

Grace From Kettering

I'm a so called 'emo', but I hang around with many different people in and out of school. I see chavs in the street and the first thing I do is cross the road, or go in a different direction.

I know many people who have been beaten up for being a 'greb' 'goth' and 'emo'.

This so-called "war" is a form of bullying. So why stereotype? There will always be someone who will bully you because you listen to different music or dress differently.
Sun Apr 29 16:05:42 2007

martyn jones from carmarthen
I hang around with both goths and chavs and I find that goths complain about chavs a lot more than chavs do goths. But I do think goths are much funner and nicer ppl 2 b around nd i think the majority of chavs nd a few goths should grow up! By the way I'm more punk than any of the two mentioned so just grow up.
Wed Apr 18 16:45:09 2007

Kati from Finland

UK started to sound like a scary place after reading these messages! Here metal and "goth" music is so common nowadays that you can usually dress as goth as you like and not be bothered.

We have "chavs" too; some dress like wannabe rappers, some are into 50's-style with greasy hair and rockabilly music, and some are just plain "country".

What's common with these groups is that they aren't into very intellectual hobbies, they just gather to drink and drive cars if possible. They can be offensive towards goths but usually just verbally, your situation sounds to me more like LA's Bloods & Crips!

I don't dress gothic all the time but I'm goth inside. Looking from here the whole chav-culture seems to come from the culture of stupidity with its paris hiltons and tabloids and bling bling and it has got way too much power.
Mon Apr 16 10:44:38 2007

Tom from Oxford
Okay. All you guys labelling yourselves. It's stupid.Maybe if everyone dropped it then it would go. I mean. I used to be 'emo' or whatever. But right now I just think it's stupid. I do think there is a sort of 'war' maybe not so much a war but a 'dispute'. I mean I've been beaten up a few times by 'chavs'...I wear 'normal' clothes and just because I have dyed blonde and black hair and a long fringe I was beaten up. This is all stupid.
Wed Apr 11 09:43:22 2007

sarah from Brough near Hull!!!

I'm more punk than anything, but i like Goth and Emo stuff,(I really wear wot i like even if it looked weird) but i'm so fed up of Chav's (the selected few who think they have to voice their opinions even tho they are so single minded!)shouting things out or laughing just coz me and my bf are different!

In Hull it's so bad that gangs of Chavs hang outside our clubs and wait for Goths or woteva to come out...don't they have something better to do? i just hate the way they walk around as if they own everything. They intimidate a lot of people. The UK is so run down no wonder the rest of the world laughs at us! anyway rant over lol take care xxxx

Tue Apr 10 11:09:41 2007

lee from scuthorpe
I dont see the point of Chavs beating up Goths etc just because they act different and and dress diffently...it's just pointless. Btw i'm emo and I agree with that emo hannah
Tue Apr 10 11:04:19 2007

Amy from England

I hate being labelled a Goth even though I am one, and because of the dislike of them I never get left alone in school. They think I'm an emo and always shout at me saying I slit my wrists and all that, and schools don't do anything to stop this.

One time we had an own clothes day and as soon as I entered the school I got shouted at. The only way I stay sane is by laughing at how stupid they are. But even some of my mates do it to, so schools should really do something. I'm fed up with walking through the shops and people start laughing at what I wear. It's horrible.

Tue Apr 10 10:51:54 2007

Kerry from Scunthorpe

I wear black and listen to metal. I hate being accused of what I am not every day at school. I get people saying 'Goth' to me. I mean who cares what people are if they are getting on with their lives then leave them be.

Yes I am friends with Emo's Goths Skaters and I am also friends with a few Chavs, but the Chavs I hang around with don't care what you look like, what clothes you wear. Am sorry whoever disagrees with this but I think it is mainly chavs who start this 'War' between Goth and Chav because most Chavs can't take people for who they are.

And when I am walking down the streets I get random people saying 'Goth' or 'Slipknot' to me I mean 'Yeh I Do Love Slipknot', but why do they always say Slipknot? I mean there are other bands out there in the metal industry all I say to them when they say 'Goth' to me I go 'Yeh whatever' or I ignore them. If Goths want to be Goths and Chavs be Chavs them leave them be just get on with your own lives!

Tue Apr 10 10:34:17 2007

Pete from Teesside
I guess you can call me a chav, i wear alot of nike (hats, tee's, traccys etc.) But i am not the type of person who fights people for the sake of it, if someone starts i will fight. I dont mind emos/goths, they are a laugh if you get to know them, then again so are chavs.
Wed Mar 28 09:14:21 2007

Jaz from England
I don't think there is even a point in arguing over this. I mean really, why is 'goth' so bad? and why is a chav feared. All I'm saying is I think all the 'war' is, is just two lifestyles clashing. (btw, I'M A GOTH!)
Mon Mar 12 11:16:25 2007

Ryannah Tyrani from Listford
I think that this is an issue and it's ridiculous. People nowadways ridicule people for being 'emo' just because they wear an inch of black. The feud between chavs and emos is unfair and judgmental and absolutely stupid.
Mon Feb 5 18:32:26 2007

Jamie from Llanelli
This is a war and it is pathetic. I don't like to label or be labelled, but if I had to chose it would be somthing along the lines of goth, and I have to say for my almost all the people I've met in my life who would call themselvs chavs and a lot of people who wouldn't have been so prejudiced against me it is unbelieveable. So although I do have friends who call themselves chavs, in general personally I think the chavs are the cause of this war and are just a load of sheep who are too scared to step out of the crowd.
Mon Feb 5 18:19:40 2007

Boris from Kirkby
This is a common problem in Kirkby. There is too much conflict for a cause that only makes the participants pathetic/ I myself have had "chavs" big up to me, but so what. I ain't gonna hold a grudge against someone who has ruined their own life to "fit in".

Why does everyone have to fit in? It's pointless. Just do what benefits you best and don't care about anything unnecesary 'cos if you let your emotions control your life you'll be depressed for the rest of your lives.

Think before you start categorising everyone, it's pathetic and weak minded! Love to you all.
Thu Dec 28 18:04:40 2006

Terry of Swindon
I've been into the Goth scene for a v long time now and I dont think there is a `war`. I just think there are relatively stupid people out there (not just)`chavs` that think it's funny/clever to insult/assault people because they think they can.

And I don't think it's just goths that sometimes have problems like this. How many people get randomly insulted or intimidated by gangs of youths just hanging around in their area.
Thu Dec 28 12:12:50 2006

Calum from Inverness
I wouldn't say I am really anything. If I had to be labelled it'd probably be something like emo or goth. If the neds just came to terms with the idea that not all people are like them, that some people act differently to them, then this world would be a better place.
Thu Dec 28 12:10:37 2006

Charlotte from Coventry
I'm a emo and when I walk around my school corridors all of the chavs in the year above me yell goth at me. What annoys me the most is that they dont think to learn what a goth is and what kind of person I am because I am different to them I am 'goth' and have been bullied and even put in hospital because of chavs abuse. And the worst part is my school doesnt notice so the different cliques have to hang around right next to each other, theres no way we can seperate our selfs and then the teachers are all surprised when fights break out and people get hurt. I no not all chavs are like the ones at my school but I do no its not only at my school where people commit suicide because of abuse from chavs. There is a real problem here and the sooner people realise it the better.
Mon Dec 18 18:11:24 2006

Lizzie, Cambs
I'm 13 and I'm a heavy goth. My whole school is full of chavs because I live in a very bad area. chavs usually start on me because i'm different. Its all about us beign different I'm strange and weird and freaky. So? I like being different why cant chavs just see we are different full stop GET OVER IT ?! Us goths dont harm people we arent like that. Me for definite I cant touch a person without saying sorry. Chavs just need to understand the fact we are different and need to stop bullying our differences.
Mon Dec 18 18:07:40 2006

Kay Willis, Ferndown
It's a growing problem now. You cannot wear black otherwise you get called a goth. You cannot wear white because you get called a chav. It's ridiculas. The other day I got a chair thrown at me then milkshake, all because I had black drainpipes on and a spike belt.
Wed Nov 29 08:54:09 2006

Rebecca
Im not a goth but because I wear black clothes chavs have a problem with me, I don't like chavs simply because they are selfidh I know many people who they have hurt or upset and its for no reason ecxept them looking diffrent. Which is basically rasism because when a white person gets into a fight with a black and ses it because they look diffrent they would probally be arrested for racism and violence but if a chav atacks a goth and ses its because there diffrent the goth is usually acused of doing something or the subject is ignored.

Thats why i do not like chavs. They are selfish and stuipid and I agree with people who wear anti chav t-shirts because if there where no chavs then it wood be more peacefull, if there was no goths it woodnt make a diffrence so it is chavs who are creating problems.
Mon Nov 6 09:34:08 2006

Danny, Berkshire
I think the chav/goth situation is the worst it has been and is still getting worse. I myself am not goth or chav, but am friends with both types. The government really need to do something about the mess that 'fred perry', 'lacoste', 'k swiss' and other brands have done to this country. If i want to walk down the street, i don't want to be called stuff like 'greebo' and 'smelly greb'. We don't go round doing that kind of thing to them, partly because it would be very dangerous, but mostly stupid. I actually want to move abroad when i am older, mainly because of this... Why can't they just get lives and leave everyone else alone for a change.
Mon Oct 23 10:14:44 2006

Stay Free Stay Punk
To be honest, I can't say anything new, and wat i would say is already written in song. "Understand him, he'll udnerstand you, for you are him and he is you, If the Kids are united, they will never be divided" let us not make the same mistakes as our ancestors did, this generation has one chance to go down in history, let it be for something good...
Mon Oct 23 10:11:06 2006

Laura (Phantasia) Leeds
I'm goth, I have been for 5 years, I'd be lying if I didnt say I disliked chavs intensely..but if for once I could just leave the house and get on a bus without the stares I get off people and the constant comments shouted at me I would be perfectly happy. A lot of the time I try not to wear 'goth stuff' unless I'm going out with my mates 'cos if you're a goth and you go out alone you get a gang of chavs 'happy slapping' you. When I was in college I was the only goth in our group and I got on perfectly fine with my classmates and they were all chavs. I think there was only one person who didnt like me cos i was different but this whole goth vs chav thing is stupid!
Thu Oct 19 10:24:44 2006

hebe from carmarthen
This is very true there is a big issue between 'chavs' and 'goths'.I hang around with lots of different people.I also like rock music, and also dance music aswell....when i go into town with my friends i wear converses and all of these 'chavs' that go past just cough and go 'grunge!' i mean.....really dont like being labelled like that...and the just judged me by what SHOES i was wearing!!!it really annoys me that people judge what character you are just by what you are wearing or the way that you look.I wear those clothes because i feel most comfortable in them...and i dont perticulaly care what other peop! le think about the way that i look but being labelled isnt fair.i very much agree Lauren.This is a good peice!!
Thu Oct 12 09:09:59 2006

lewis from london
im not a goth but i find that chavs call me a goth because i like rock, play the bass guitar and wear a mix of black, red, and jeans. i dont get it? why take the mick out of someone because they dont listen to r&b and hip hop. hope you see my point.
Wed Oct 4 08:55:28 2006

Mick from Glasgow
I would say i am more goth than anything else.

We have a huge problem with neds (chavs) as they are always out to cause trouble. i am not saying every ned is glasgow is like that but 98% are.

my mates and i dont say a thing to neds because we dont want to waste our time lowering ourselves to their but because we wear black and have a few piercings that makes us "freaks" and "wierdos".

this "war" is never going to stop because the two "groups" are too different to be able to see past the clothes/piercings/makeup. It's rediculous that one person hates another because of what that person wears or their attitude towards certain things.
Wed Sep 20 08:52:20 2006

tom from England
Woooo! Go goths!!!
Tue Aug 29 10:08:24 2006

Kirsty from Ipswich
Im a chavette (a female chav) but i dont go around beating goths up its just lame. even though im a chavette i would still be friends with a goth not matter wot my crew would think.
Thu Aug 24 15:39:36 2006

holly,collett spain
hi everyone!!im a goth and im pleased.i dont have anything at all against chavs.in fact,some of my friends are chavs and we get on fine.its not what u wear,how u wear it,what its made of...its who u really are deep down inside.i also reckon its a good way to find out if ppl r really ur true friends cos if u dress normally one day then decide to b goth or chav another day and then they dnt like u,its obvious they're not ur true friends.since i live in spain,i dnt get this problem much but,when i go to england to c my family i get picked on and called names by chavs when i havent even done anything! ...i mean,whats the point of that??he started to say "go and commit suicide,well i would if i wanted to but i dnt,and if i did...who cares,its what i would want to do and i what i would belive in.i think we should all live in peace and just not pick on any-one(even if we dnt like em)just tell them u dnt like em and leave it at that,no fighting,stabbing,kicking...watever.just live in peace and get on with everyone(well try to)xxxxx
Wed Jul 26 08:52:47 2006

richard, wales
im not a chav or a goth in fact im not anyhting i wear wat i feel comfortable in i like heavy metal and all forms of rock but i dress like any 1 else but i still get abuse from chavs it has nothing to do with bein a goth its who ever is diffrent from the chavs is seen as a target by chavs i hav been shouted at and call names by chavs loads i hate walking passed large groups of them cause they are normaly drunk and in so violent there are also lots of them carrying knifes and im going to do my very best not to end up on the end of 1.
Tue Jul 25 09:02:11 2006

taliesin sirius herts
i dont believe in sterotypes but i do believe that it is mainly the 'chavs' that are the problem lots of them are just ok people but quite afew are the lowest of the low they dont care about anyone but themselves and are vandals and bullies they think anyone who is diferrent to them are scum i have had numerous bad experiences with chav beeing abused etc but i couldnt care and wouldnt want to retaliate because then i would steep to there level i dont personaly know 'what' iam but the chavs seem to goth is about expresing your individuality and most goths are sensitive arty characters though called satanic! Most goths are aetheists and would rather avoid any conflict.
Tue Jul 25 09:01:25 2006

Alex
Any facade shows somekind of weakness. Try and become the person u want too become without the shell.
Mon Jul 24 09:30:24 2006

Stephanie from NC
i dont label myself (labels are for soup) but everyone says im goth or emo because of the way i dress....i hang out with all kinds of people but i find that its only us "goth/emo/alternative" people getting treated different and when we ask why people usually say "well dont you worship satan?" or "why do you wear black all the time?" and so alot of times we start to isolate ourselves (gee i wonder why) and then they act like its us who hate them.... i know alot of "chavs" and the majority of them like the same music, movies, hobbies, and have alot of the same intrests as us! i dont t! hink its fair to be judged..... most people agree that no person should be judged by the color of their skin.... so why are we being judged by the color of our clothes!!!!
Thu Jul 13 13:21:31 2006

fletch from redditch
all this diffrent groups, why?? cant evry1 just get along???,clothes are just clothes,hair is just hair,style is just style ...its the personality of the people that count,chav or goth, whatever u are dont judge people by their appearance, get to know each other a bit first
Tue Jul 11 09:21:38 2006

Gemma Donaldson From West yorkshire
Chavs and goths in my opinion are just people who want to be noticed. I'm not a label, and neither are my friends. We're just ourselves, and many people dont get that. I dress "goth" but i listen to "chav" music as well as what people call "Mosh" music. I think its just some stupid fad that'll go out the window as soon as something else comes into fashion... Mind you, i still cant walk down the street without someone looking at me weirdly then shouting out something. But yeah, it's just a load of bull. Everyones different.
Tue Jul 4 09:00:43 2006

Matthew Doughty
I think there is a whole different issue here which was brought up but not given much attention to.

"Chavs" will start on people other than "Goths, greebs whatever" - they will start on old ladies, children etc. They are bullies just re labeled. "chav" may just be a way of describing a bully. The whole idea of labeling is destructive, I used to be gothique. Now I consider myself to be alternative, and will dress and act however the hell I want.

Don't label yourself. This can be difficult if you like gothique art and forms, but be true to yourself.

There is not a war between two subcultures, there is a war between gangs and people on their own. You can knock out one person, but can you knock out a gang?

Not all gangs are violent, true. A gang is difficult to stand up to, and these gangs go beyond labeling these gangs develop into adulthood. Drunken groups of people that cause trouble don't need a label.... Lets discuss how to deal with the problem of violence from groups... Throw the labels aside, most people from the groups are ok. The minority are influencing your perception of the majority.
Mon Jul 3 11:12:49 2006

Dave Thom glasgow
Goth and Chav's is too vague. You get different people in these groups for what ever reasons. I've had plenty of experience with both groups. Coming from a bit of a heavy rock indie back ground I can sometimes fit in the middle. I find that alchol strongly effectx the situation. It appears to be more of a chav culture to drink out in the streets. I'm talking about underage drinking.

Most goths (not all) tend to go round to someone's house if there having a drink). When the chav's on the street get aggresive they take it out on those that don't follow there path of life. I think chav's instigate the fights, and I don't blame goths(I hate calling them that) for having a bitter reaction to them.
In the 90's there was more of them but now it seems astho the goths and rockers are sticking up for themselves 2gether. Saying that you can get non-respectful people on both sides of the coin.
Mon Jul 3 11:01:00 2006

sam, from london
well, im a goth, i would get on with chavs perfectly fine, heck, im am firends with a few, im tlking to one right now, the ones that live around my area just shout at me whenever i walk past, the first thing is "you dirty goth" i dont get it, why they have to do it i dont know, they dont give ou a chance
Tue Jun 27 08:43:53 2006

james leyshon wolverhampton
(PLEASE READ) i am a emo, like so wat i am a human at the end of the day so are chavs, the mods and rokers years are over now and we could be having the best genoration of our lives if all the chavs could stop going up to the statue in the city centre were all the goths hang out and shouting "GREBOOO". if you want some attention in future, try using phrases like "hello" or "how are you" and we will simply say the same back and all of a sudden we will know each other and could be m8s, ALLALUIA we got some were with world peace so well done to the chavs that are going to try t! hat...
Mon Jun 12 09:17:16 2006

own label
hi im myself take this u lot "i wear blak but i listen to rap" im no chav or goth, u r not one ither... keep it that way and make it a happier day, let people acctually walk on a public pathway, be your self an in your own way. WORLD PEACE. THE END
Mon Jun 12 09:13:20 2006

Bliss from Stroud
Wherever I go where theres chavs i always get abuse from them. The reason is i dress differently. For instance when i walk past people in corridors at school there is at least one chav a day sayin "look theres the stupid Goth, hippy etc. go and get some fashion sense" its really annoying and quite hurtful but im used to it now. but not all chavs are like that some of them respect me and dont give me dirty looks when i walk past, and are my friends but not many are like that.
Tue May 30 08:57:10 2006

Ai From London
Think one of the most important points that haven't been made are what make up a Chav person. I define a Chav based on their personality and attitude. The whole beat up other people and mug them/Live off welfare is what I consider Chavs... I just be myself though, whats up with the need to label yourself?
Mon May 22 10:43:41 2006

Amba
yeah well being a goth people do shout and have ago at me but i just try not 2 let it bother me, yeah it is hard sometimes when its just u and theres like hundereds of them but it just makes me laugh because it seems like they really have nothing better 2 do with there lives because i dnt really have a problem with them because quite a few of my m8s are chavs and i dont have a problem with me and i dnt have a problem with them and when it comes to wearing t-shirts with anti chav/goth things on it i wouldnt waste my money its pointless
Wed May 17 08:48:54 2006

Millie Kelly from Solihull
i am partly goth but i do not get abised by any chavs or hoodies etc. all of my freinds r goths and not 1 of them gets abused! Whats the fuss about?
Mon May 15 10:26:07 2006

Jam from London
As a goth, I get lots of stares from people and comments shouted at me coz I happen to dress a bit differently. But I try not to let it bother me and I would say the same to all you goths, grungers etc out there. Don't let people get you down. A lot of the time it is chavs because there is a noticable conflict between the subcultures whcih is very annoying. I don't particularly like the attitudes of chavs,that any one different warrents abuse but like all goths are different then not all chavs are the same either. The tribes just don't get along as a whole which I think is stupid. Just because we don't t! hink the same things or dress the same does that give us an adequate reason to hate each other.
Mon May 15 10:13:02 2006

Emily from Poole
I think that people should just stop labelling themselves as goths or chavs or greebos or wat eva, just because they dress diferntly or hang out with different people dosnt give u the right 2 "start" on them. just get ova your self nd think underneath the differnt clothes is sum1 u probli share same intrests with. this world is become so materialistic it makes me sick.
Mon May 15 10:11:36 2006

Lee from Scunthorpe
Goth/Chav are merely labels. maybe if perople were a little less self obsessed and actually made an efort to get along with others, this whole pitiful situation would be irrelevant.

It is a very sad state of affairs when people are victimised because of the colour of their shirt!
Thu May 11 09:06:00 2006

Kerry from Somerset
Can I just say a lot of my mates are goths and they don't go around 'starting' on chavs, all they do is hang around at school and random chavs that they have never met before come up to them and start shouting random abuse at them or do something really pathetic like chuck water over them. And my mate got hit by a chav for just walking the streets so I don't know how you can say it is goths starting on chavs these people are just trying to be themselves and I have the upmost respect for them so just leave them alone!
Wed May 3 08:55:53 2006

Michael parker from Chesterfield
I can understand why chab's don't like goths and why goth's don't like chav's, but the simple matter of the fact is that it shouldn't end up in a mass disagreement where they can't stand to be near either.

I am a goth/greebo, and i have took a lot of abuse from chav's, but if I do it to them I am no better than them, so here's some advice to any goth out there who is getting abuse from a chav. Just totally ignore them, blank them out of your life and don't worry about it and just move on.
Thu Apr 27 10:04:44 2006

JohnBoy, Barnsley
I don't like chavs or goths and I think you should all get over yourselves. It isn't what clothes you're wearing, it's how you walk around with your attitude problems trying to be rebellious all wearing your worn t-shirts and your stupid nike hats at a 90 degree angle to your head. You're all following a trend.
Tue Apr 18 10:46:20 2006

Aaron Hyett Wolverhampton
Look I dont like chavs personally but I dont enjoy fighting either but it seems to me that its the chavs who always "start" on evr one else apart from themselves. Also what will the world come to if chavs take over nation i q of 2? sorry had to express myself ...
Tue Apr 11 09:41:04 2006

Jo from London
Chavs have no life. when they see goths mindin there own bussiness they try n start something. i walked past a group of chavs so many times and ive been so scared something violent would happen. if chavs just left goths alone it would be fine! n i hate how the media portrays goth music as suicidal. chav musics just a load of ryming slang bout stabbing gay people!!!!!!!!!!!! the nice chavs ive spoken to told me to stand up for myself n shout back at chavs. but chavs just dont know how to listen!!!!!!!! goth starts talking and before you know it the chav is pushing into them repetin!
Mon Apr 10 10:31:21 2006

Mike Knapp
I dont think there should be a fight over the way people act or look. Im a goth and all the people that call them selfs chavs are normaly the ones crying them selfs to sleep then they get up and tek there anger on goth/punks/emos.
Mon Apr 10 10:22:06 2006

rob denholm
Im a chav and dont like goths at all, ppl think that we pick on them but they are chopsey little wannabe marylin mansons who can't back it up when it comes down to it. U leave us alone and we'll leave u alone........
Thu Apr 6 10:18:02 2006

kyle from scotland
I'm sort of a goth but i find it really amusing that it's mostly goths or people in between that sign this. It kind of shows that the chav or ned in scotland doesn't care and would't go near a half intillectual site
Sun Apr 2 23:37:07 2006

xx_emo_hannah_xx
i'm an emo and i DEFINATELY hate the way chavs treat us!! come to think of it...i hate the other people treat us too!!!... leave us emos/goths/punks ALONE!!!!!!!
Sat Apr 1 09:32:46 2006

Andy Lowe from Shrewsbury
I have been part of the gothic culture for the past 9 years. There have always been problems between chavs and people that dont fit in. I grew up in liverpool the home of the scally, i would get abuse and violence everytime i went out but you get used to it. Its the younger generations of goths/chavs that seem to be causeing the problems. Although all the young generations of goth wouldnt know goth if it came up and slapped them in the face so to speak. over the past year or so the EMO culture seems to have appeared. Really it is just an imitation of goth, that every goth hates, WHY? because the emo's are causing trouble with the chavs and the chavs get goths and emo's mixed up very easily.
Thu Mar 30 18:47:30 2006

chantelle from ashford
i think that some goths are okay but others do tend to creep me out i think this whole chav goth war should stay as it is and i dont think that it should change there is a reason for every thing and i think there is a big reason for this but no one nows what it is yet i dont think that people should be pushed out and descriminated for who they are or how thay want ot be if you want to be diffrent and stand out then go ahead so to all you goths out there dont listen to what every body else says or thinks about you and dont feeL that you have to harm yourself over somebody elses thoughts be free and livce your life the way that you was born to
Mon Mar 27 10:15:34 2006

Ruth
i'm not a goth or chav either, but i have more respect forgoths. i feel chavs think they have the right to treat whoever however, which they don't. the media isn't really helping either; they don't really promote music and unterests that goths have and they are associated with depression and suicide. which is wrong and stuff chavs listen to is ... not meaningful whereas at least 'goth music' has some kind of meaning and feeling. but really i don't see why we should feel we need to fit into a catogory, we should be encouraged to not follow any crowd, 'cause even if you wanna be a goth to be different, you are still falling into some kind of steroetyping crowd, therefore not achieving your goal right? didn't mean to write an essay, oh well catch ya later xx
Sun Mar 26 13:57:55 2006

Gem Windle
What is it with chavs, why do they have to spol everything for everyone else? You don't see chavs saying 'I steer clear of Goths most of the time to avoid getting into fights, it usually works, but there have been occasions where ive ended up getting hurt'. last night my friends almost didnt go out to the fair coz they were scared that there'd be chavs there and theyed get in a fight. today, one of my goth mates got punched in the face by a random chav for no reason. it's rediculous. Chavs are the only disruptive steriotype. You go to Camden Lock and you see goths and hippies walking about in the same place without trouble. throw a few chavs into the mix and its chaos. im sorry to the token nice chavs, but if you will dress like the rest of them, then expect to be steriotyped negatively...
Sat Mar 25 20:57:25 2006

Lisa-Beth Waterworth Carmarthen
I honestly think that judging people by how they look is quite pathetic and all the arguing is pathetic too 'cause we're all different and no-one can change who they are. You can't help judging someone but to fight over it is wrong and unfair. Ok, we're not all going to get along are we? We're not all going to like one another but we've got to learn to get along cause in the long run you can't change who u r.
Wed Mar 22 11:13:57 2006

Rhiannon - Carms
Lauren i love it. so true!!! loving it. my mate lisa came accross this and we've all been reading this. i think its awesome. cya soon hopefully Rhiannon xxxx
Wed Mar 22 11:12:57 2006

Dave, London
i have no problem with goths, they are generally nice people who wouldn't want to assult u or anything. Altough they can be quite dull. I know a few chavs, they can be kl but the sort of vandalism and violence (mugging etc.) they resort to is unnecessary. Be yourself- keep to urself
Sat Mar 18 12:35:25 2006

Matt Emmitt from Derby
I used to have the same problem as everyone else on here, I.E Chavs picking on me, but I just didn't let it get to me. I will do all I can to avoid chavs, and most of the time it works. There has been once where I couldn't avoid it and I had my phone stolen, which made me hate them even more. But from what I've learnt, the older you get the less trouble you have. If you talk to chavs as normal people most of the time they will leave you alone. But if you instinctivly think they are going to hurt you, you tend to have a sarcastic tone about you, and it seems to threaten them. Or another way is just to stand up for yourself, most will back down if you show you're willing to fight... Just my two cents, peace out
Sat Mar 18 07:27:04 2006

jas m douglas
im a goth an i just wanna say that we dont pick the fight ,just cauz we`re different and ar`nt afraid to show it.
Sun Mar 12 17:05:15 2006

becky parkin from chesterfield
well im emo and i no alot of emo people and none of them slit there wrists that is a sterio type that people have come up with and it has gone to far.
Sat Mar 11 16:55:11 2006

Frankie, Swansea
I'm a Goth and I hate chavs. They are the lowest form of person you can ever hope to meet. I don't understand why people like Bethan and others who's comments are similar sit on the bench and watch us tear each other apart. That's probably what it's going to come to these days.
Thu Mar 9 15:34:31 2006

beth, cardiff
i agree with sarah just wear whatever u wanna wear. Although i do believe that both groups are conforming to a norm of society and that neither are individual. And both groups are basically sheep following each other. To be truly indivdual just be your self and dont care what people think, just dont do anything stupid like Sarah said there are some crazy people out there.
Wed Mar 8 13:49:20 2006

sarah
goth rule and sk8rs emos and punk but i dont relly liek chavs evan tho my boy friend is a chav
Mon Mar 6 16:26:14 2006

Xerxes, Taunton
I don't classify myself, but I suppose in general vision I would be "labelled" as a goth, still. I would like to allay some common misconceptions: I don't always listen to heavy and death metal, I often listen to Bruce Springsteen and Enya, amongst other things. Not only this, but while I have my bouts of depression, everybody does, no biggy really. I am a peace loving guy and frown upon fighting to look big, clever or tough, it's none of those. Anyways, i've had my say, have a nice day,remember: if you smile, you will most likely be given one back. :-) Catch y'all later peeps.
Sun Mar 5 06:59:41 2006

Lucidia, Bradford
None of my friends hate chavs, because we feel it would be unfair to judge every chav by the ones we have met. But it seems to me like the chavs that we have met don't take this into consideration. If a chav had questions about Goth then I would be happy to stay and talk with them if they are geuinely intrested, but all I seem to get from them is abuse. When your 15 years old, and there are so many people waiting to beat you up because you have black hair and eyeliner, no wonder a lot of goths have negative veiws of chavs. Why can't people justleave us alone, it's all we ask? We don't need them to be nice or helpful to us, but to just let us walk by would be a great deal better. Lucidia x x x
Sat Mar 4 18:30:27 2006

Jessie from Mars
I'm a goth and i get verbally and physicly abused just because i'm different. But i'm proud for being different and i have pure respect for anyone who is not afraid to be themselves.
Sat Mar 4 17:48:25 2006

Kenny james from ponthenri
Loz u r a star. this article is so kwl its jst a pity that ur realated 2 matt
Sat Mar 4 16:20:16 2006

Steff from Lewisham
i get called a goth cause i like nirvana and rock bands but i suppose its better than being called a ... chav
Fri Mar 3 20:57:24 2006

beth, cardiff
i dont believe that either culture is very individual, and that both sides are basically conforming. To be truly individual just be yourself nothing else really matters. Sarah i agree with you mostly im the same i just wear what ever i want to wear.
Fri Mar 3 15:16:22 2006

Sarah
I'm not a Goth or a Chav - to be honest I just throw on whatever is on the bedroom floor! But I do have friends from both groups. At first there was a bit of tension but after encouragement they all get on fine now! I don't understand how an image can destroy people's perceptions of personality - but obviously there's a lot of crazy kids out there! Take care all!
Fri Mar 3 08:39:35 2006

Jamie from worcestershire
We shouldnt be saying goth vs chav because goths aren't out to hassle chavs - they have an urge to pick on us goths.
I usually won't walk out of the house with things like my ipod because when chavs see things like that they mug you. This leads people to think that there's something wrong with goths because chavs have such hate for us but at the end of the day chavs will hate anyone different from themselves; if its an old lady or a small child they will shout abuse and / or beat them.

Just the other day an old lady walked past our school and had stones thrown at her by chavs, and now its 2 weeks later and they're back in school, already picking on other children.

England is going to hell now that chavs are growing in numbers and if somehing is not done about it soon then we will have a society where we will hav 2 lower our intelligence to a single digit just to walk down the streets.

Goth is not a religion, we're not all satanist; its a form of expression and chavs aint even proud of bein chavs they call themselves stuff like sk8rs or townies.

A goth can stand alone but a chav needs m8s or they will not hav the courage 2 say anything. Anyway hope this helps. Goths 4eva!
Thu Mar 2 10:36:28 2006

Ben
Im Chav Like innit.... but at the end of the day.. we aint got time to care bowt what other people think.. its up to them to make their minds up... i knows a few goths and their sound enough, dun mean ill be seen wiv em in a pub... its all about image...
Thu Mar 2 10:04:31 2006

Nash from Carmarthen
I guess these stereotypes and groupings just give people a place to belong, to put themselves where they know their position in school society.
Thu Mar 2 07:38:37 2006

Jon from Bolton
uve raised some gud points but it does justify some stereotypes wen u realise that not one chav has posted
Sun Feb 26 00:43:26 2006

Demi from Doncaster
yeah im a 12 year old goth aswell and i express my feelings through clothing and get bullied all the time but it will be me who will have the last laugh because i wont be a grandparent in my early 30's and i wont wear football tops and eat lard, my school is full of chavs and goths, we usually stay out of eachothers way, the other day i was in extravagance (gothic store) and a chav walked past me and shouted insults at me, chavs and goths are complete opposites who should learn to get along. Goths rule.
Sat Feb 25 14:27:24 2006

ally
goths r just as bad as us chavs they have a go at us as much as we do 2 them n they say were all just sheep followin trends etc but so r goths they all wear the same sort of stuff so u cant have a go at us like that. n goths dont rule daisy.
Sat Feb 25 11:19:37 2006

Nick
The whole chav vs goth problem is a simple dislike of the unalike as most on this forum are keen to point there dislike of chavs from chavs "picking on them or bullying" them to insult them makes you like them in that you are stooping to there level fair enoguh most chavs are antisocial but there hatred for the goth sub-cults are derived from film work portraying goth as its emo sub-form, churchs who see goths as witch's or devil worshipers etc, also most goths will avoid a fight being mostly pacifists.
Wed Feb 22 21:57:02 2006

laura from Reading
i live where chavs are becoming more of a problem. I never got any hassle until i started wearing black and expressing myself in what i wear. i soon found out i couldnt walk past a group of chavs without being spat on,and just the other week i had a slab of concrete thrown at my head, then lit up fag ends thrown at me. A group of around 8 chav males then approuched me and tried burning me with lighters. i can honestly say i did nothing to provoke this but mind my own business. No matter how bad i try and avoid these situations, they happen. i think most people will easily understand why i am slowly building up a very strong hatred towards these people (if you can class them as people). if they dont bother me i have no problem, i just wish that the others who do would just except that some people arnt afraid to stand out instead of walking around in the same baby blue or pink pj's threatening others to make yourself look hard. I dont really class my self as a goth but i say goths are stronger as they can actually express themselves and a genuinly nice people. xxxx (btw goths arnt wrist slitters, those are emo's)
Sat Feb 18 17:54:58 2006

Tom from Bentley
Hi im a Goth and have strong views on chavs, this is mainly because they seem to think they are better than you and they are so thuggish. I'm 14 and go to a high school where there is a big problem of this chav vs goth thing so much so there was once a massive fight between the two. I hate chavs so much one day i was just playin football with my mates when a chav for no reason at all tripped me over on concrete. This, 3 days later ended in me being floored by that same person ending in cuts and brusing all over my body. When i walk through town past a group of these animals you can garrantie one of them is gonna say somthing offencive. All i got to say to all u chavs out there fhk you and i hope u change your ways soon to make this world a safer more enjoyable place. Thx, Tom
Thu Feb 16 20:05:50 2006

Daisy
goths rule yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tue Feb 14 14:44:33 2006

call me a goth
ummm yea im a 12 year old goth so rock on to all u goths out there and yea its a big thing all this
Fri Feb 10 20:42:42 2006

james
gothes rule
Wed Feb 8 20:49:22 2006

anon
tom murphy, you have made a brilliant point and you have explained exactly what chavs are like im sure many goths like myself will appreciate your opinion and hopefully some chavs who read it will see how pointless their actions are! go you!!!
Tue Feb 7 10:57:39 2006

eimear from ireland
im what some people would call a goth and i get annoyed by chavs so much! theyve done loads of things to me. id like to say that i get on well with chavs and like them but i cant because they just wont leave me d anyalone. ive never said anything to them that would insult them before but they still feel the need to perform anti-social behaviour on my house and bully me in school. so im sorry, but i blame thhis chav vs got thing totally on chavs as goths are always very happy loving people.
Sat Feb 4 18:11:44 2006

slutter
erm did you ask spit like this is you could mention their t-shirts ??? i'v never had conflict basically because you get called a goth whatever...and you keep walking and people round my area have except that i'm going to wear pvc skirts and platforms when i go shopping and its stopped...people are sometimes close minded !!!
Sat Feb 4 13:28:19 2006

adam b
i'm a goth, well more of a punk but there is a serious issue between chavs and goths. In fact today in school 2 chavs got expelled for fighting 2 goths. The lads play guitar and bass and the chavs decided to intrude in the practice room.... (comment edited)
Fri Feb 3 22:22:49 2006

Tom Murphy
The term "goth" is from the Gothic period, and can be described as part of many things such as cultures, fine art or architecture. Granted, Gothic people want to be distinguished as one of a kind or artistically doing what others won't. H.R. GIGER did it in his art work which caused massive contraversy of his explicit drawings. But how can you justify displaying ones "uniqueness" by wearing all black or wearing a hoodie and dog collar combo..

Its not so unique now. Viewing the princaples of fitting into a group, you must participate in the same intrests and conform to a dress code. Chavs being chavs headed out for sports and fashion to grab some addidas jogging bottems.

My long winded point is that both groups follow simalar principals. Both look different, but thier concepts are the same.

I could respect the fact that chavs want to be a chav, but its not the clothes that make someone entirely. The Chavish attitude of "beat up all the goths and cause a massive fight" is what annoys people. Walking down a street even with friends, past chavs, you feel like you shouldnt be there and that they will beat you up. And this definatly shouldnt happen, try walking past a goth crowd, happily chilling there listening to music and maby showing each other riffs from a non applicable air guitar.

I feel that Goths are a primal stage of rockers, these are the old guys that scream the lyrics of ACDC or Motorhead. Of which these guys are, in general, nice people. But the only secondary stage of a chav ive seens is a thug, a leather jacket, some one who spends thier gracefully unfree time behind a prison door. Or maby leach off the walfare benifits and unemployment payments.

What are chavs going to become, they are stereotypicalised as dumb. They are the ones who enfore that when they mindlessly roam around causing fights, getting drunk right out side your house or call thier mates up for a drum and bass session at 3 oclock in the morning.

I myself used to conform to the "Goth", but was abruptly stopped when I finally realised. I can wear what I want, I can talk to who I want and I can do what I want. This is why I feel that the pointless feud between the "Chavs and Goths" should be resolved or set aside.

thank you if you have actually red all of this rambling nonsense maby it will help someone!
Thu Feb 2 02:59:18 2006

Kenny James from Ponthenri
Goths verses chavs - its a strange world out there: cats vs dogs, boy vs girl and of course goths vs chavs its a chaotic world with diffrent sorts of clashes but chavs and goths will 1 day get along........
Sun Jan 29 18:21:17 2006

Charlotte from Leicester
I agree with your speech, but I would just like to say that it is usually Chavs who start it. I am a goth, and my school life is made into hell because of random chavs going out of their way to insult me. I do have some friends who are chavs, and sre very nice people. Its just the minority of both groups who choose to be nasty, causing the rest of the group to get a bad name.
Sun Jan 29 17:51:41 2006

Syd, Maesteg.
It is apparent that most of your correspondents come from. Pontyberem, Carmarthen, and Llanelli. Isn't anyone else interested in what appears a very interesting debate.
Sat Jan 28 19:09:21 2006

Zoe Wilson from Cheshire
There wasn't much stereotyping in my life until we went to highschool, everyone in my primary school got on. I get called a 'goth' at school, and I suppose I am, but I also don't get on with most of the other goths because most are as bad as some of the chavs, so I hang around with the 'outcasts' which is the chavs, goths, nerds etc that don't fit in, so I know it's possible for all stereotypes to get on....

But I have to get a bus to school and this is a different story. We have to hide just around the corner from the bus stop so that we don't get called names and have stuff thrown at us while we wait for the school bus. And on the bus I have been hit, kicked, called names etc and never retailated, just ignored people, but what does occur to me, is it isn't just the chavs that hurt us on the bus, it's most people, and most of the people on the bus are skaters.

I got hit by someone today on my way home and this makes my life unpleasant, but i do agree with everything you've said. Although one of my friends had to go to hospital after getting attacked by chavs as he tried to cross a bridge.
Fri Jan 6 17:49:41 2006

Emily
good going babey! Im not a chav ora goth and i get on fine with either. theres no point trying to get on coz it just aint gunna appen! but seriously ifyou guysput your differences asside you could probs pull together and really see whats worth fighting for like saving the planet n stuff! Stop fighting each other guys coz its like bad for our little town! Just ignore each other- its not hard! Nice one lauren!!xxxxxx
Wed Jan 4 10:57:37 2006

nicole , brum ..
where i live there are many chavs n many wat we call skaers i can see where u are cumin from sayin chavs are out to cause trouble .. may are but many arent i dnt think its rght to judge plp on wat they wear r who the hang round with ,, plp shud give every 1 the shame chance .x x
Wed Jan 4 01:14:28 2006

charlotte from birmingham
the chav vs goth thing is a big deal. im a goth and personaly i dont like chavs very much. i dont think we should get along because we are very different from each other and even if we wanted to get along it wouldn't work.
Tue Dec 27 18:33:11 2005

David Bayliss from Great Barford
I would like to say 1 thing, Where the love at? What ever happened to unity, man there's to much hate in the world az it iz. I know it'z eazy to brand chavs az scumbags but some are allright, same with goths. They just 2 different sides of the same coin.
Sun Dec 18 14:52:24 2005

Sian, Carms
In our As english class most of us are (so called) "goths". But we have one (so called) "chav" in the class as well. We all get on really well together and love listening to our "chav" take the mickey out of her fellow chavs!! We have decided that chav's must be sponsered by Daz as they are so keen on keeping their white's white. Nice article, keep it up!!
Sun Dec 18 11:39:40 2005

poison
hay this is a good artical but its never gonna be like that because not everyone will get along with each I get called a freak fleabag scum ragdoll every single day by chavs , so know wonder we dont like each other when things like that happen
Sat Dec 17 16:36:24 2005

Haz from London
Chavs hurt the community. There is a BIG difference between the two.Where as 'goths' just want to be what they want to be. They want to show they're strong from inside and so take a different way of social life. Chavs are afraid and scared to be what they want to be, and they think putting their boxers up will help them be like "everyone else". I'm neither a goth or Chav. I listen to rock, sometimes even hip hop. I'm not really fond of any of the hip hop singers though, could be similair to rock. I enjoy being myself. And if anyone wishes to be judgemental and classify me to either groups it's their wish, although I do mind
Fri Dec 16 15:25:33 2005

the person who wrote it:P
thanx 4 your comments i am hoping for more, i am also a goth as many of you are and i feel i wrote equally for both chavs and goths. Chavs have a fear of people who are different and we suffer for it, as some of you have written, goths dont start the fights most of the time and it would be much simpler just to get on with our own lives and leave eachother be!!! hi kayleigh havnt heard from u in ages!!!!! leave more comments and btw charlotte from llanelli please tell how u think it is biast so i can improve it because i tried my best to keep it 50/50 within both, and erin not all goths slit their wrists and listen to music that encourage death! dont tell me that you ahve never heard of anyone other than a goth trying to kill themselves! eminem isnt exactly full of life with his lyrics either! thanx emma! lol and everyone else who agrees with my article! some of my friends are chavs, they dont judge us as soon as they see us and start having a go. . . the ones that do. . grow up! Thanx guys Loz xx
Wed Dec 14 11:10:44 2005

Lisa, england
why cant people just get along? it sucks that people jusge each other so much by what they wear. i know thats not all it is, but its a big part of it... as you said about black vs white. i hate the way people start verbally and physically abusing one another on things like that, its just stupid. i agree that there are bad people and good people in ever "catagory" of person (even though its not right to put people into these), but ive got to say that ive had more bad experiences with chavs than i have with goths, but thats a personal thing. just because people listen to different music doesnt make them a bad or even different person (in this sence). i hate most of the music my mates love and yet im really close to all of them... things like that shouldnt make any difference. its the person inside that counts. hope this made sence and i havent been talking about nirvana for half an hour... im so tired.
Mon Dec 12 18:33:05 2005

Willow from essex
I'm a goth and, I'd like to say I loved your speech. But... with real goths its different. We mix with other people. the point of being a goth is finding something beautiful in what most people wouldn't, like death.

The reason we repel chavs is because most of them refuse to understand that, go "harr harr you weirdo" and will beat the [] out of you.. it's always the chavs who start on us, and then we have to defend..... unless the goths in your schools are a******s. There's a******s in every culture...
Sun Dec 11 20:37:46 2005

Erin Slack from Fishburn
There is really a war between the two styles, and for some reason me and my friends have been dragged into it. I'm not a chav, I'm not a goth and generally I don't like to stereotype myself.

I don't wear loads of makeup, I don't slit my wrists, I don't worship satan or all that jazz. But I do listen to rock music, not Marylin Manson, nothing that incinuates death and despair.

I listen to the Beatles, Kasabian, the Kaiser Chiefs, indie music. I wear a brown corduroy blazer, no long black trench coat nonsense. But I'm still labeled a goth. Simply because I am different. Because I don't wear Burghaus. Because I don't like dance. Because I complain about the lack of variety on Top of the Pops. It's no fun.

I play guitar in a small garage band with my friends. We get ice thrown at us from the street by chavs that don't like our music. We get spat on and rocks thrown at us at school. Of course we don't like chavs. But we don't want a fight with them. They have their right to their opinion too. We've complained about the bullying to our heads of year, but they don't care, they say it's our fault. What for? Being individual?

I know it's stereotypical of a "goth" to complain about "individuality". But I mean, can't we get a little bit respect around here? I'm not even a goth.
No dis-respect to chavs, most of you are great people, but a lot of you need to get some common sense or anger management, whatever works best. Thats a great piece of writing Lauren, I'm glad it wasn't bias, because too many things are. I am for a start, but that's down to personal experience. I agree with the pokemon idea. xx
Fri Dec 9 17:25:37 2005

Skid and James
Chavs allways do stuff, e.g beat us up, even if we dont wear black, they dont bother even thinking about what they do, we just like different music and they think that they must kill us! I agree with you, but chavs dont understand!
Wed Dec 7 11:35:39 2005

Savannah Portillo From Texas
I thought your views were really good. See I have a similar problem that I myself and friends face at my school. People just dont understand that just because someone wears black one day doesnt mean they are Goth and if they are a Goth then that doesnt necessarily mean they are devil-worshippers. I have to put up with other peoples views on being goth when I know what goth is. Its not some stupid hobbie or phase, its simply the same as being a Jock or a Cheerleader or a Geek. Its you being you and not afraid to stand up for yourself.
Mon Dec 5 15:32:25 2005

Rhiannon Bates Pontyberem
I think its exellent Lauren! I think its just the way to get your point acrros and let people know whats going on, to try and stop future diffrences that may cause conflict. To stop people being so narrow minded enough to belive in one way of life.
Fri Dec 2 18:27:56 2005

Kaz Davies, Cardiff.
Just wanted to say quickly that I'm a 'goth' if that's what you want to call me and the only reason we ever 'beat someone up' as it was put, is because (and I know it sounds childish but) they started it. We're not ones to pick a fight, we'd much rather sit down wherever it is we're meeting that day and have a laugh than have to make sure we or our friends don't get beaten to a pulp by a gang of stupid kids who think it's funny to pick on us 'goffiks' because we look different. I don't do the fighting, and most of the time neither do my friends unless they *really* have to (to avoid having their nose broken and arm snapped in 4 places etc...) I don't really like having stones, bottles and bricks thrown at me (which seems to be happening a stupidly large amount) and I especially dislike being spat at/on in the face as I walk past a group of them hanging outside a chippy 'round the corner from my house, but there's nothing I can do about it. If they grow up and stop acting like idiots, you'll find that we're actually the nice ones in this "war" we reluctantly fight.
Mon Nov 21 16:11:44 2005

ellis grover carmarthen
it is true what do chavs do to goths for them to beat the other up (visa versa)what is this world coming to people are intitled to look, behave differnt is it such a crime to have our own personal identy??!!!
Mon Nov 21 13:02:37 2005

matthew thomas from llanelli
cool article loz loved it and it speeks alot of truths!!!! :0p
Mon Nov 21 12:59:28 2005

Charlotte from Llanelli
I agree that everyone makes too much of a big deal out of the whole chav goth thing, but i do think think that this article is somewhat biast. You talk more about goths than you do of chavs. I believe youre right in saying that goths want to be different but i think alot chavs are just insecure and want to fit in. Not all chavs want to fight all the time so whats wrong with just wanting to be in a group? Dont think that im slating your article Lauren because you do have alot of good points in here. x
Sun Nov 20 20:06:20 2005

Jack from pontyberem
Even tough goths and chavs hate each other... not all do. Some chavs and goths are friends, maybe they just want to look cool chopsin each other and they like the adreneline rush and its not just because they're like opposites... its just a way of insulting sum1 like racism, but chav and goth-ism.
Wed Nov 16 11:25:59 2005

Mark Thomas, Bancffosfelen
Very good article Lauren. Goths and chavs have been at war at each other for a long time!!! When will the day come they will get on.
Thu Nov 10 12:06:27 2005

Kayleigh Morgan From Llanelli.
I'm in two minds about your article, I disagree with some aspects, but agree with others. I personally dislike every single society sub culture. They produce friction among youth and all boil down to anti-social behaviour and peer pressure. Individuality, is the key. Good article, Lauren. The maturity shown behind it surprises me, I thought, before reading this, that you would favor the 'Goth' side of the argument, but you didn't, you were completely unbiased. congratulations.
Tue Nov 8 19:35:17 2005

Juli from Pontyberem
Well written, but will the "war" ever end??
Tue Nov 8 19:28:40 2005

Tom from Llanelli
You should add a section with bullet points detailing their weaknesses and strengths against other stereotypes, Pokémon style.
Tue Nov 8 19:19:06 2005

Emma Jones from Carmarthen
oh my god I love it!!! It's so true, everyone makes the situation out to be so so bad between chavs and goths!!! I also agreee well done!
Tue Nov 8 19:16:32 2005

Daniel Williams from Carmarthen
Excellent piece from Lauren Kirby, very true!!!!
Tue Nov 8 15:56:13 2005

Sara Edwards from Carmarthen
This is really good! the goth vs chav thing is a big issue!
Tue Nov 8 11:14:06 2005

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