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Cal Aras, Ireland
The use of longbows goes much further back than 600 AD and it has been utilised by many nations throughout the centuries, not just Wales. The main problem was that it took near constant practice to be in any way accurate with it. Not many people bothered with it and only in Britain was practice required by law. This law allowed the armies of Britain to field far more archers than anyone else.
Adam from London
The French King never issued a statement that he would mutilate the English archers, that is not true. Instead he would have simply had them executed as that was the common thing to do. Archers were poor and held no ransom value so they were always slaughtered. Henry V spread the rumour amongst his men about the cutting off of their fingers because he wanted to demonstrate how much the French loathed and feared the archers. If you know your enemy fears you, it makes you bolder. However there is no concrete evidence to support the argument that the battle of Agincourt spawned the two fingered salute, although it is a very plausible idea.
stocks, wiltshire
Well, my boss and all the bosses around the world always get the credit for how smart they are when the work is done, look at Richard Branson...But its all the workers that do the work. So just face the fact that nobody really cares who shot the arrows. It's who told them to fire...right!
Geraint, Rhuthun
I've never seen historical evidence for the "two finger" amputation of captured archers. In fact, the life value of a captured archer was nill. It would have been far simpler to dispatch them. The archers were hated by their enemies for their secondary role in medieval warfare - that of slaughtermen. The archers carried "ballock" or "bollock" daggers which were stiletto, narrow blades with twin spherical grips for the fingers one on each blade side(hence the similarity to the phallic regions which gave it its name). Wounded soldiers were quickly killed through the helmet visor or body joints in the armour. The Welsh gloried in this, and were prone to dispatch the wealthy enemy who could easily have been ransomed. It was Welsh archers that the King used to massacre the aristocratic French prisoners at Crecy(?)and the chronicler Froissart describes them as being very enthusiastic, and feared throughout Christendom.There is evidence, however, for another mutilation which makes more sense than the two fingers. 1081, Roger of Montgomery treacherously captured Gruffydd ab Cynan at Rhug, Corwen, and cut off the thumbs of his 40 strong bodyguard. Try wielding a sword or a bow without your thumb - impossible! As a sometime archer, I can fire an arrow without using my fore and middle finger! I wonder if the "thumbs up" came from this?
Arch from Los Angeles, USA
It is clearly evident the great war bow was a Welsh technology as in the case of the wars with Scotland and Ireland which occurred quite some time before the Battle of Agincourt using Welsh archers (not English). If my memory serves me right it was mentioned the Angles of Mercia felt the sting of the Welsh bow sometime in the 600s. Not to minimalize Henry V's military achievement on that historic occassion, but the use of archers was not new in 1415. The Welsh can proudly claim the ancestry to a proven technology of the longbow before it became the adopted weapon of the English armies. Henry V's military expertise showed he knew what he was doing (even to chagrin of those who felt he killed the concept of chivalry). Whatever the case, Henry V is not the father of the longbow.
Gary Lane from Kidwelly
Kim from Penclawydd - nothing strange, the English army was superior, that's why we lost.
Kim from Penclawdd
A good if fanciful book about Henry V called "Cry God for Harry" by Martha Rofheart describes the battle. Although the bowmen were useful the battlefield was boggy and many of the French were on horseback. They floundered in the mud and fell on stakes put in the ground. They became easy meat for the British forces. It does seem strange that only a few years previously the Welsh were fighting the English and their longbows didn't seem to be as effective then.
Alan from Surey
It saddens me that History is less accurate than it should be in apportioning credit where it is due, but history tends to be written by the winners. Cannot we accept that the victory was a British one with a footnote giving Welsh bowmen special mention rather than complain. We can then rightfully be proud of all our ancestors part in it.
Gary Lane from Kidwelly
In response to Neil Chambers comment: Where is the evidence for a 'one finger' salute? Where is your evidence that this two fingered salute started in the 1970's? Do archers only use one finger? Any historical evidence is questionable due to those writing it placing a 'spin' on it but it's also a question of probability.
Jon Ferguson, Edinburgh
Not to rain on any Welsh parades, but you'd do well to look out Professor Anne Curry's work on the numbers of Welsh and English archers at Agincourt.
Don Geraldos, Congresbury
Shakespeare refers to Monmouth men in a battle prior to Agincourt (Crecy, perhaps?). What are the sources for saying the Welsh archers at Agincourt were mainly from Gwent? I'm not disputing earlier statements, just seeking information:
Flu: Your Majesty sayes very true: If your Majesty is remembred of it, the Welchmen did good service in a Garden where Leekes did grow, wearing Leekes in their Monmouth caps, which your Majesty know to this houre is an honourable badge of the service: And I do believe your Majesty takes no scorne to weare the Leeke uppon S. Taffies day.
King: I weare it for a memorable honour: For I am Welch you know good Countryman.
Flu: All the water in Wye, cannot wash your Majesty’s Welsh blood out of your body
Neil Chambers, London
There is no real evidence that the V sign started off at the Battle of Agincourt or indeed that it has anything to do with archery. No historical accounts of the battle mention it which begs the question how anyone could make that link. The myth itself doesn't even appear to have started until the 1970's.
Gary Lane from Kidwelly
The 'one finger salute' was a two finger salute - if archers were captured then their arching fingers (two) were cut off. In battle, the archer would show the two fingers as 'here they are, this is what you are going to get' defiance. Also, the 'English' longbow is in fact the 'Welsh' longbow as the longbow was conceived, developed and employed from Wales!
John Rowe from Waterloo, Canada
Visited Warwick Castle 3-4 years back. They have some impressive live sketches depicting the scenes at the Battle of Agincourt and the dialogue very much stated the significance of the Welsh archers in securing the victory. Essentially the statement was the Welsh Archers were the best.
Dorian Willliams Santa Rosa, California
I read in a book entitiled 'Kings no more' - in a battle of 3500 'English' longbowmen, 3300 were Welsh.
Jimbo
Where did this guy get his info from? History with Janet and John? It was not the middle finger salute that was started at Agincourt, but the two finger salute - after all, these are the most important fingers for archery. And Ianto is right, Gwent archers were dominant in numbers over the English. Our part in this battle could not have been more important. Apparently, the ratio of French to English/Welsh was vastly overstated at the time, and it was more like 8000 French.
Terry Williams
It saddens me that even on a Welsh page like this the Welsh are not given the rights and recognition that they truly deserve, history of England and Wales are mixed and have been for a long time but only the one gets the credit. I am sure this maybe a Welsh page but with an English writer. PS Sorry about my English but it is not my mother tongue.
Ian Harvey : Spain
Who was Sir Hubert Gamme and did he have some part with the Gwent bowmen.
André fenętre (window!)
(Editor's Note: Please send us your comments again in English.)
Lucy Gee-Lang
RE Comment by Ianto - Yes, it is time the Welsh were recognised for all they have done, so much has happened and we are always overlooked. The facts that you have mentioned should be made clear each time these victories are mentioned.
David Ryder from Bramley
Re. Ianto's comment bellow - Your comment is justified. However, it was the English that held all the factions together and made disparate home nations a united fighting force. While it is unlikely that we will ever be totally united because of our ethnic diversity, it is fair to say when it comes down to it - you take one of us on, you take us all on. Long may it be so.
Ianto
It is known that the vast majority of archers at Agincourt were Welsh - the bowmen of Gwent. Also at that other famous 'English' victory at Crecy the archers of Llantrisant were utilised by the Black Prince. In reality most of England's victories over the centuries have relied on huge numbers of conscripts from Wales as well as Ireland and Scotland - isn't it about time this was recognised?
What's your opinion of Henry V?
Warrior King of England
