"There are only so many times one can stomach the old 'Welsh people switching to English in the pub' myth without screaming and desperately trying to resist the urge to eat one's own head in sheer frustration. There is genuinely nothing that annoys me more than seeing otherwise intelligent people parroting this claim verbatim.
For once and for all, let it be known: it is utterly utterly false, and anyone who claims to have experienced such an event first-hand is a liar. The entire premise is flawed, for a number of reasons:
1) Why does the listener assume that they were speaking English beforehand if he's only just entered the room?
2) Perhaps they are part of a group comprised of a mix of Welsh and English speakers? When I find myself in such company, when including the English speakers in the dialogue I use English (even if it feels rather uncomfortable to speak English with Welsh friends), but if speaking merely to the Welsh speakers directly then naturally I will use Welsh.
3) Much colloquial Welsh contains a smattering of lazy English borrowings (usually when perfectly fine Welsh equivalents are available) so the listener may mishear and only realise they're actually speaking Welsh as (s)he gets closer.
4) How on earth would they know you could not speak Welsh? Do you wear a large fluorescent "English-only" sign?
Point 1 should be enough to demolish the myth on its own, but it's actually interesting since it demonstrates beautifully why the myth is so potent (and dangerous) in the first place.
The underlying assumptions behind the belief are truly sinister. Obviously there is the awful paranoia, but there is also the implication that we don't "really" use Welsh all the time ("but...but...surely they don't actually speak something other than English? There must be some sort of ulterior motive"). It perpetuates the notion that it is merely something we use to exclude 'outsiders' and as some sort of handy clique-maintenance tool.
It implies that when nobody else is around, we use English like 'normal' people, as if Welsh is only really good enough for some occasional English-baiting. It's the perfect legend for undermining an entire language, since it denies the existence and viability of Welsh as a natural and everyday way of life (and therefore eases the guilty conscience of those who destroy it) and portrays its speakers as insular and unfriendly bigots.
So there you have it, the perfect all-in-one Welsh-undermining urban legend. Jackpot, eh? Please, the next time you hear this myth from some guy at the pub, just think a little bit and consider that not only is it untrue, it DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. And that even worse, it's a cunning propaganda tool with far-reaching consequences."
your comments
Garry, Weston super Mare
An excellent article and excellent responses from all. As a Welshman, having lived in England for most of the last thirty years, I find it particularly irksome when entering a pub in England to find the inhabitants speaking English - perhaps so I wouldn't understand them. In reality, it's the same English trait that reveals itself abroad - by trying to make themsleves understood by shouting louder. My wife's family are bilingual; her mother was English speaking Welsh, whereas her father was Welsh-speaking Welsh. The result is that for example, my wife speaks Welsh to her brother and her sister, but her sister speaks English to her brother and so on. My English son in law found this completely baffling at first but now realises that truly bilingual Welsh people don't even realise which language they think in and can drift seamlessly from one language to the other. There probably aren't many English people who can do this.
Fri Aug 14 15:02:32 2009
Paige Griffiths, Anglesey
I think people coming to live in or even visit Wales should at least try to learn the language. Most Welsh speakers can speak English and do so if a visitor speaks English to them. Why are people so rude and arrogant? I moved here six years ago, so I am not a fluent Welsh speaker, but I have learnt the basic language as I now live in Anglesey. You would not go to Spain and expect them to speak English, so why expect Welsh people?
Thu Apr 30 09:46:59 2009
Mrs Carr from Essex
I have just returned from Abergele. Most people we met did speak English for our benefit, but spoke Welsh at other times. I can honestly say it didn't cross my mind that they were insulting us as everyone seemed so friendly and helpful. We have also been talking about moving to Conwy which, having read some of the comments here, does worry me as I have two small children and would hate for them to encounter rascism.
Tue Apr 14 13:54:25 2009
Rhys Jones, Bargoed
It never ceases to amaze me how English visitors to Wales expect Welsh people to speak English.
Thu Mar 26 09:53:13 2009
Andy Martin from Llandudno
I am afraid I have experienced much more extreme behaviour than this on first moving to North Wales (Blaenau Ffestiniog), including having our windows smashed, our door constantly kicked and having anti-English insults and threats shouted at my wife and myself. Living there was a very bad first experince of living amongst the Welsh. One of the most annoying and frustrating things about it was that there was a general denial amongst the Welsh that this sort of behaviour does occur amongst a sizeable minority.
Mon Mar 9 09:51:39 2009
Mike, New Forest
I'm afraid there are a lot of us English who have an ignorant contemptuous attitude towards the welsh. I love the Hebrides and I think it's ice cool when everyone's speaking gaelic on the bus (they're the warmest most modest people you could ever meet). The welsh language is great - how boring would it be if everyone everywhere spoke english! The one thing I don't much care for is the number of "English out" signs around and about - you may think ahh yes, it's just some silly boy with a spraycan, but I've seen it loads in both n. and s.wales - anywhere from the Gents to bridges. I find that%2! 0kind of stuff a bit depressing.
Mon Feb 23 10:22:39 2009
Sarah Evans, Pwllheli
Having recently moved to Pwllheli from Lincolnshire I have found the majority of Welsh speakers switch to English for me when I am in their company, I've only once found someone use Welsh so I couldn't understand. I've got a young son and while at a clinic one of the staff wanted me to go to the Welsh parent and toddler group. When I pointed out I wouldn't understand she switched to Welsh and spoke to my mother-in-law about the benefits of talking to my son in Welsh. However, the majority of people are really understanding. There is one point I'd like to make. Some people think the English are being ignorant for not trying to learn Welsh (I am trying), but I think the reason is it's very difficult to get our heads around the Welsh sounds - I really struggle with it and still can't say my husband's middle name, Llywelyn, correctly. Generally I love living in Wales and I know my son will have a better life here.
Mon Jun 2 16:00:42 2008
Sarah Wise, Durham
I moved to Anglesey with my family at age nine. I went to a specialist language school to learn Welsh for a year before joining my local primary school. My attempts at speaking Welsh were always well received in the village. However I did have several negative experiences as I grew up, usually only from people my own age. I have a very 'English' accent which led people to assume that I could not speak Welsh. As a result people made comments about me (in front of me) thinking I would not understand them. The red faces I received when I responded to them in Welsh were, however, very satisfactory!
Tue Feb 12 09:47:30 2008
Peter, Cardiff
Racists are to found in all nationalities. So, we might expect some racist people to be Welsh. Every single English person I know living in Wales has a tale to tell. I myself have been physically threatened once, and abused several times. The language-switch: Welsh is for manya first language. But it is not the speaking of Welsh that is the point of the story - it is the alleged switching after the speakers have decided someone is English. If that has ever happened, then it is without doubt an act of racism. I have not myself experienced the language-switch, and no one I know has reported it. So it may be a myth. Or it may have happened sometimes. Who knows? I do know for sure that I have been racially abused while living here in Wales. I also have had some Welsh people apologise for that - they have nothing to apologise for, no more than I do for being English.
Mon Feb 11 09:43:50 2008
Bully From Bradford
Me and my wife have recently visited the land of the dragon for a week's holiday and went in many pubs. In one of the pubs everyone was speaking Welsh and continued to do so during my visit, but we were not intimidated in any way as all the posters and even taxi cards on the wall were all written in Welsh so I thought it must be how they speak all the time. The best thing was that when we left they all turned around and said "Goodbye" to us in English which I thought was a nice gesture. In all the pubs we visited we chatted with locals and had a real good time with a bit of banter thrown in. I can safely say as an Englishman I love Wales and its people.
Fri Sep 28 11:49:34 2007
Nicky, England
I am English, my Granddad was Welsh and lived in England the rest of his life yet when he returned home would speak Welsh to his family and so he should. Even though I am English I wanted to and was taught a little of the language from my Granddad. I find there is a minority of people in Wales and England who are paranoid and believe in myths that reflect their anti Wales/English attitudes.I love Wales I still have family there and visit 5 or 6 times a year but sadly still regularly meet the minority as I am sure many Welsh people experience when in England but I have also meet the majority of ! Welsh people who don't care I am English and are always very welcoming.
Fri Sep 21 11:13:51 2007
tom roberts,manchester.
As someone who spends quite a bit of time in Caernarfon and has many welsh speaking friends in the town - the answer is that people do not change from English to Welsh, the reason being that they naturally speak Welsh. However when talking about this (in English) to Jimmy in the Black Boy public house he did admit that when obviously English speaking girls come in the pub he and his mates sometimes make comments (in Welsh) about certain parts of the girls anotomy, things like "has n't she got a nice pair of tits".Lads will be lads wherever you go.So the answer is that it can probably done s! electively.Hyll.
Thu Sep 13 09:39:44 2007
Merry Davies, Dinbych-y-Psygod
Dylan, I agree with what you say. How on earth can English people walk into a Welsh-speaking bar and expect the Welsh speakers to speak English? How does the English speaking person know that the Welsh speakers were talking about them? They don't. People who think that must be very narrowminded.
Thu Aug 30 09:19:12 2007
Goronwy, West Midlands
As a Gog I have traveled to most parts of England with my work and find that most English people do believe the myth that Welsh people have got the time to worry about strangers and speak about them. Question. What do they think we say to each other about them? do we say oh deerie me here come the English to invade us again, or, look it's an english man with a nice pair of shoes, he must be a millionaire and shall i go over and ask him if he needs them cleaned by way of licking? Or as i think, they have come to wales to visit a nice country with a lot of history and culture. Get on with it.
Mon Jun 18 09:26:40 2007
Bob Sais
As a Welsh learner in Ceredigion I would be just pleased to walk into a pub where everyone was speaking Welsh! This ignorant myth and others like it are partly why the language is in seemingly terminal decline.An important caveat for the Cymry Cymraeg though - please do not just blame English people for perpetuating this myth; I have heard it from non-Welsh speaking Welsh people just as often.
Fri May 18 16:14:13 2007
Kate from Yorkshire
Excellent article, Dylan.Last year I walked into a pub in north Wales where the conversation was in Welsh until I ordered a drink: thereafter everyone spoke English. None of the 'They were all speaking English' brigade believe this.
Mon May 14 11:20:02 2007
Heledd Evans, Ceredigion
I lived on a kibbutz in Israel in the late nineties, shared a house with many nationalities, most of us keeping diaries in the evenings. I naturally wrote mine in Welsh, the Norwegian girl wrote in Norwegian, the French in French. Daniel, an English guy, once peered over our shoulders, and asked only me if I was writing in Welsh so that he wouldn't understand...
Thu Feb 15 14:05:42 2007
James McCann from Aberystwyth
As a Welsh Speaker I have to admit that sometimes when my friends and I want to talk about someone without them knowing we'll speak Welsh, but to be honest since I spend 70% of my day speaking Welsh anyway its not a language switch, its just the language I happen to be speaking in. I've never sat in an Aberystwyth pub speaking English and then switched to Welsh when a stranger came in though. I live with five non Welsh speaking friends and so obviously only use the language at home when my girlfriend is over, but if I drop into Welsh accidentally or because I've been speaking it outside all day no one minds. In fact the only person ever to demand that I and my girlfriend stop speaking Welsh while she was in the room came from Wales herself! I have to say that in Aberystwyth at least, most English people are fine about the language, although you do feel like an idiot trying to buy stamps in Welsh when the only Welsh-speaking postal worker is on a break. Shop staff should be taught Welsh as part of their training in order to let the community speak what language feels most comfortable.
Thu Nov 9 15:59:02 2006
Simon Parton,Cardiff
Originally from Shropshire but now with a partner in Cardiff.
During my time in Cardiff I have experienced anti-English comments on many occasions ...usually in English,so it works both ways.
I have heard on a few occasions some anti-English comments in Welsh,to which I reply "Dw i'n dysgu Cymraeg" which means "I am learning Welsh" ..which I am, as I believe I should do so when in Wales. They soon shut up!
As for any anti-English attitudes? Well all I can say is that we are all British and we should learn to get on with each other. This goes for many of my bigoted Englanders as well as the Welsh and Scottish.
It's a very different world nowadays...move on!
Wed Nov 8 11:33:45 2006
Aanod, Bath
Interesting to see the comments equating Welsh and French. The situation is very different for 2 reasons: Wales is a bilingual country, France is not. French is a world language, Welsh is not. Norwegians consider it rude not to switch to English if a foreigner is present, because they realise Norwegian is very low on the language hierachy. Welsh is also low, so switching to English if someone who does not speak Welsh is present is an expected courtesy. If you come to Norway we will certainly happily talk to you in English, even though it is not an official language.
Mon Nov 6 09:52:36 2006
Anna Timby, Dolgellau
Well said, Dylan. My experience is the very opposite. Welsh people are far too ready to speak English. This unfortunately gives outsiders the impression that Welsh people don't really care two hoots about their language and culture. You should speak Welsh even if there are English people present. As others have said, you don't expect everyone in France to speak English just because you are visiting.
Mon Oct 9 10:48:44 2006
