Beryl Reid, Abergele
To Dicky Frogmoore Pen, First of all if you cared to read my posting properly rather than just scanning it, you would realise I am not a chap. Not many chaps I know are called Beryl. Secondly, whilst I appreciate that a car park in one of the 'carbunkle' areas of town would be ideal, I'm not sure how those people that live on the estate next to the hospital would feel about having their homes bulldozed to make a day trippers car park. Also, the walk into town would be long and an all round eyesore to those very visitors we are trying to cater for. I am sure when you actually weigh up the pros and cons, you will see that I am right. It is the only way to move this inward looking town forward.

Dave Rooster, Bangor
If you don't like the views afforded by the proposed windfarm, you could always either look the other way or look out from West Shore instead.

Dave Jacobs, Conwy
That's the point Dicky this windfactory is going to be in your face, 250 giant windturbines as close as six miles from the end of Llandudno pier! Do yourself a favour(before the objection to this proposal has to be in to the D.T.I. by the 27th January) -climb above Llandulas on a clear day,then observe Blackpool tower, that is 45 miles away as the crow flies.Imagine...

Dicky Frogmoore Pen
I have totally enjoyed reading the remarks by other contributors on this page, but feel that I should add comment to one or two issues that have been raised. Firstly, I can not understand the fear and resentment to the proposed wind farms. I can see no objection to these if these were to be poisoned well out to sea and not in land. Having these on the horizon should cause no problems to anyone other than those that have a natural hatred for change of any kind. The only issue I would like to add on this matter is that I have been informed that NO reduction in electricity charges will be passed on to those that live here along the coast. That I find a little insulting and stupid on the part of the electricity providers (and government/council!) as I am sure that most people would be happy for Npower to erect these turbines, if locals would financially benefit in the long term. I my self would be happy to have one in my back garden for the advantages of cheap power and environmental savings!

My second rant is directed to the chap that prepossesses parking on Llandudno pier and promenade. Are you mad man? If Llandudno needs anything else ruined by developers and cash hungry corporations, could they please pick some of the tatty areas to spoil and not the parts that look respectable. If I were to suggest any changes to the prom, I would recommend an affordable tram system that skirted the coast line. At least that way more people would leave their cars and travel by rail. If we wanted it to be environmentally friendly, it could be pulled by young offenders or asylum seekers? (Joke...?) Finally, to those that are unhappy about goat poo on the Orm. Try walking down most side roads around any town and attempt to return home without having skidded in dog filth. I think I would rather risk a shoe load of 'healthy' excrement from a goat's diet of grass, garden flowers and the odd bit of washing, than the tinned BSE, horse and wale intestines that fall from irresponsibly owned dog's bottoms!

Dave Jacobs, Conwy
Kara Bellis like many commentators on this site has only part of the wind farm picture. She suggests that tourists may flock to see wind factories. Consider this: Swaffam in Norfolk, which is reported to have attracted 50,000 visitors to its windfarm site, does not enjoy the 14 million visitor days of visits per year that this region already does. It also does not attract one fifth of the £2bn spent in Wales annually -so of course the Norfolk site needs an initiative to boost it doesn't it? Also consider this, the UK's first windfarm at Delabole in Cornwall has received only an average of 35,000 visitors per year since its construction 10 years ago.

Maybe NPower will build a windfarm observation deck in Abergele or at the end of the pier in Colwyn Bay or even another sky tower if we ask them nicely?

As for Kara's comments on visibility, have you seen the pictures featured on NPower's publicity? Look again please. Good comment should includes balance Kara didn't mention any of the negative effects such as reduced house prices or the health issues of headaches, migraines, nausea, dizziness, palpitations, tinnitus, sleeplessness, stress, anxiety, depression and lack of concentration.

Kara Bellis, Abergele
Can I please say that I entirely agree with the proposed windfarms. The need for renewable energies is vital now more than ever. Conventional methods of producing electricity are causing global warming, which if they continue will cause sea level to rise so that in 50 years there will be no coastline at Llandudno anyway. I do not see many people who are willing to forego electricity so what other choices are there other than things like this? For those who feel that there was no information available, there were 4 open days which were advertised on the BBC news which you could have attended. Some of you seem to be under the impression that the turbines are going to have a large impact on tourism, but I don't think that the turbines will have a dramatic effect. For those people who love the area and the coastline, a few distant far off turbines which are only visible on clear days (how often do they happen?) are not going to put them off. The turbines may even generate more tourism. I just really don't see the need or the logic behind the complete uproar the proposal seems to have bought.

Dennis Taylor, Church Walks
Re: Dennis Oliver - surely to goodness you've not thought this through man! Is tourism not an industry that is slowly killing this town - look at the old Asda site. What is that going to do - nothing more than create a row or charity shops within the town. I ask you what has tourism actually achieved that wouldn't have been achieved without it?

Dennis Oliver, Llandudno
I was surprised at the comment from Dennis Taylor to say people come to Llandudno for the privilege of shopping in Marks & Spencer. We have visitors from Newcastle upon Tyne and they tell us that Newcastle has an M&S Store which is huge and also an M&S market stall. Plus another huge M&S Store in the nearby Metro Centre.

They come to Llandudno to safely walk along the Victorian Promenade with wonderful views of the sea and the Great Orme and Little Orme. They Like many other visitors they are here to escape industry and don't want to see Llandudno Bay fenced in with industrial turbines.

Eric Jones, Llandudno
Whilst I share the reservations about the proposed windfarm, I note that Tony Blair is banging on about throwing up some nice new nuclear powerstations to meet the expected energy shortfall - now then...

Dennis Taylor, Church Walks
Stropaphobics do not have any effect on TVs - unless you have one direct on your doorstep which you haven't - perhaps it is the government's interest to get everyone to switch to digital without monkey. People do not specificaly come to Llandudno to look out sea. If they did that they would go on a cruise ship! Llandudno over-relies on tourism - people still come to Llandudno for the privilege of shopping in Marks and Spencer's. Let that be an end to these silly outbursts.

Dave Jacobs, Conwy (Save our Scenery)
Those who love Llandudno have till January 2006 to stop it being spoiled forever - I urge you all to write to the DTI. The issue is that plans for the Gwynt y Mor offshore electricity generating scheme, sponsored by N power, have now been submitted to the Department of Trade and Industry. The plan envisages the erection of approximately 240 wind turbines off the Llandudno, Rhos on Sea and Penrhyn Bay coastline. These turbines will be over 500 feet tall. In normal day atmospheric conditions, they will be prominent from shore along the near horizon. Sunlight reflecting from the blades may emit a stroboscopic effect. Noise is known to be an issue, TV reception can be affected. Local bird and marine life will suffer. Llandudno's main industry is tourism. More than one fifth of all the tourism income in North Wales is spent here. There are over 14 million visitor days per year. The attractive sea view will be spoiled and tourism will be affected. This last issue will have grave economic and social consequences for the town. This final bit is the main message we want to get across. I urge you to write now to the DTI stating a few cogent reasons for your objection. The address is: Alan Johnson, Secretary of State for Trade and Industry, Department of Trade and Industry, 1 Victoria Street, London SW1H 0ET.

S Rand, Llandudno
I am a Hotelier in Llandudno and I am amazed at the apathy amongst the Hoteliers with regard to the proposed wind farm along our coast. I have spoken to many hoteliers and it appears they do not have the information available to them to make a judgement regarding this. Why has a meeting not been set up to inform people of the adverse affect this will have on their future? I feel a show of strength may be what is required to make the powers that be in this town realise that this is a very very serious matter and must be dealt with in a serious manner. I have heard that our own Mayor of Llandudno has been seen to shake the hands of the enemy. I have not witnessed this myself and I would be horrified to find out if this actually happened. It would indicate that they are not in touch at all with the mood of the people of this town. I for one will not continue investing my hard earned money in this town if this proposal is allowed to go through simply because some elected bodies are not doing the job they were elected to do. Stand up Councillors and be counted. Someone also gave be a very good headline to use to vent my fury. How does "GERMAN INVASION OF OUR BEACHES" sound?

DH Jones, Deganwy
Jonathon Linoclon - absolute poppycock!! You're talking in riddles man! The way forward is steam power - take a look at China they have the largest coal belts in the world now - coal power is the next thing - but our MPs decided to flood our old mines many a moon ago. If we had steam power once again we can rise from the fires like a phoenix.

Jonathan Lincoln, Tan Y Grisiau
Climate change is the greatest threat we face. We simply have to move away from dirty polluting fossil fuels and nuclear power with its inherent risks and huge cost! We have the best wind resource in Europe and could have a world class offshore wind industry. We have to embrace change. Wind power is the future.

Eddie Charlton, Brisbane
Get right on me pip how folks go on about these wind farms - they are great sources of clean energy never mind the views, do the views pay the bills, in my mind the seagulls ruin Llandudno - do we go out and shoot them no! They are rats on wings.

Perry Mans, Loughborough
William Clough Ellis - Have a word with yourself, you pillock. It's not the companies who want a cleaner world, it's all about one thing - profit. How would you like it if they stuck a blinking great windmill thing on the walls of Conwy castle or in your back garden or next to your kids school?

I want a cleaner world as much as anyone, but if windmills are the way forward you can stick it.

Williams Clough Ellis, Conwy
Everyone is harping on about wind farms - nothing wrong with them! I am sure if stone age man were here now he'd be typing on the internet about how he felt copper mining and tourism were ruining our town. It's not the council it's Mostyn estates who need to be dragged over the coals.

Don't blame the companies who want a cleaner world - blame yourselves!

Colin Hugh Abbott,Jarrahdale, Western Australia
Yes! Lucia, you've got it. Put the wind up the council! It'll be a breeze...

Lucia, Llandudno
I have lived in Llandudno all my life. So we are all fighting as much as we can. I think it is a horrible idea to put them in are bay. In our shop we have 2000 people signed they don't want them and if they do put them up lots of people said they wouldn't come back to Llandudno again. They said it would have more jobs (120) but they are only there while they are putting them up. I think the council should get off there back sides and see what they are wrecking.

Save Our Scenery Llandudno
Npower are expected to put in their proposal to site 200+ 500 foot high wind turbines in the beautiful Llandudno Bay by the end of November. Check out their website for images. SOS has mounted a campaign to object to this proposal and save this stretch of heritage coastline, the only one between here and St Bee's Head in Cumbria. All those out there who love Llandudno, and we know there are thousands of you, please write to Alan Johnston Sec of State to the DTI C/o The House of Commons. If you all write it will make a difference. You can contact SOS on our new saveourscenery.com website.

Dawn Mcguinness, Llandudno
I am interested in joining the Save our Seascape organisation (SOS) - as I am outraged at the proposal to erect at least 200 wind turbines in Llandudno Bay - as is everyone else I speak to on the matter. Please could someone let me have contact details for SOS.

Colin Hugh Abbott, Jarrahdale, Western Australia.
Wouldn't it be wonderful if global warming were nothing more than a factor which melted the ice that keeps people and creeds poles apart?

p> Janet Haworth from Llandudno
"A thriving town that already ranks as the Queen of Welsh Watering Places. Its future will no doubt be one of satisfactory progress;for art and science are there combining to plant amidst nature's glorious scenes a welcome resort, whither the busy classes of society may hasten to forget the dust and turmoil, the noise and excitement of the work-a-day world, in that happy season of serene enjoyment- a seaside holiday." So wrote Mr Maitland of Liverpool 150 yrs ago. Llandudno and Rhos-on-Sea have formed an action group.... Save Our Scenery S.O.S. to save the heritage bay ,the only one between here and St Bee's Head in Cumbria from a wanton act of vandalism to place up to 260 wind turbines in the bay. It will fence off our horizon with a wall of steel. SOS have lobbied Llandudno Council and Colwyn Bay Council to write in protest to the Welsh Assembly and John Prescott. If you love Llandudno and SOS know that hundreds and thousands of people visit Llandudno every year please help us. You can do this by writing to Rhodri Morgan at the Welsh Assembly in Cardiff or John Prescott in Westminster and please send a copy to our MPs, Betty Williams (Llandudno) and David Jones(Colwyn Bay) If you love Llandudno it needs you to do this. SOS will launch their website soon so look out for it and maybe you can help save this special place.

Lucia Pritchard. aged 12, from Llandudno
I think it will be horrible to put these monsters in our town, it is so beatiful now but for how long will it be like this if they put the wind turbines there? I love on Saturdays going to the beach with my friends and sit down and look at a lovely view and it must stay like that! People think it will make tourists come more, well I doubt that very much.

Colin Hugh Abbott, Jarrahdale, Western Australia
Now Jonathan, you say wind farms rock. But,in Llandudno's case, do they merit a role?

Jonathan Lincoln from Tan Y Grisiau
Why do some people have such a problem with wind farms? What alternatives are there, fossil fuel or nuclear? I know which I would rather have on my door step! Besides, Gwynt Y Mor if built will be nine miles off the coast of Llandudo, hardly close by.

Climate change is a real and global threat. Wind farms rock!

Chris Keenan, Llandudno
I live in Llandudno and it is a nice place, but those wind farms would ruin it and Llandudno is a popular place for tourism as well. If those wind farms were built, Llandudno would attract less tourists.

Sue in Essex
I have very real concerns about the proposed wind farm, golf course and the plans to reduce or wipe out the goats on the Orme.

I would very much like to make contact with anyone who shares these concerns. The Orme is a unique site and this must be maintained.

Colin Hugh Abbott, Jarrahdale, Western Australia.
If, as Mike Cox suggests, wind turbines are the "flavour of the era", would it not be wise, in one's generation, to set-up a battery of them in the House of Commons - there's a hell of a lot of wind blows there!

Mike Cox exiled in Norfolk
We already have wind turbines off Gt Yarmouth (Scroby sands). Its down to individual perception of course but there is a general agreement they enhance the seascape with their grace and elegance - twenty first century windmills! And commercially (not that this is my bag) they are beginning to be a tourist attraction. However, in practical terms they are said to be pretty inefficient, giving very little return for their financial or, as many obviously have it, their aesthetic and environmental cost. Why isn't there more investment in the development of tidal generators, or if wind turbines are the flavour of the era, a turbine for each individual house - we have a primary school in our village which gets all its electricity from its individual wind turbine and then sells some to the national grid. I suppose there's no profit for big business in that!

John Pugh from Barmouth
On the wind turbines I tend to agree that such machines are not attractive. It's one thing to have such turbines in the middle of OHIO where the population is scarce and needs the revenue (and electricity in San Francisco) because farming yields are low. It's quite another to consider putting them close to a national treasure such as Snowdonia National Park or attractive towns like Llandudno. Every time I drive from Manchester airport to my parent's home in Deganwy I cringe as I pass the chemical plants and factories on the edge of the North Wales border - what a mess! Let's keep the mess East of the border since that has already been ruined.

Dave Jacobs Llandudno
I heartily endorse Graham Jones concern about the threat to Llandudno`s coastline by the proposed wind farm. This must not be allowed to happen. I retired here 5 years ago and thank God daily for the beauty of the place and the fact that we have largely resisted ravages of commercialism to preserve the town's historic character. I was at the public meeting Graham referred to and was sickened by the Professor's (anti wind farm) presentation which outlined the plans, which also included proposals to construct hundreds more turbines down the Conwy valley. I am afraid that several factors will ensure that all or part of these plans will bear fruit, these are: The sheer power of the companies pandering to the government's misguided renewable energy agenda, the alleged speculative interests of one of Llandudno's greatest philanthropists and lastly the inertia of the general public. Anyone who remarks to me (after the event) that the town has been spoilt will get short shrift!

Alan Gildersleve from LONDON
I was in Llandudno many times from 1940 to 1991 so can claim to know the town very well and I used to love it. It seems that it is being ruined now by so called development, not necessarily houses but by proposed windfarms, golf course and general neglect. Happy Valley used to be immaculate and a haven of peace, certainly no graffiti and all in apple pie order. A golf course would not work on the Orme because of the continuous high gale force wind and in any case it will deny visitors the pleasure of free access to an unique beauty spot and we do not want another road thanks very much. Windfarms should not be visible from the towns so the Llandudno area is not suitable. I would think that Abergele wouild be OK and all along that coast towards Llanddulas where there are only caravan sites.

Graham Jones from Llandudno
After attending the public meeting at the Town Hall on the 27th April, I find myself disturbed at the lack of pride people have in Llandudno. This town, of which my family has been resident since the early 1900s, is a jewel which must be treasured. The plans for the Gwynt Y Mor windfarm are a blatant attack on the beauty of this town and its surroundings. The idea that Npower would want to erect 200 524ft turbines just a few miles offshore is a clear sign that companies don't see what they would destroy in the pursuit of monetary gain, becuse that is all they are interested in, not preserving dwindling areas of natural beauty. They hide behind their policy of providing safe clean power, when all they do is destroy it. It's not just Llandudno that faces this possibility, just along the coast near Ruthin, there are plans to erect a wind farm on nearby hills, which would not be so bad, but to do that they intend to destroy a forest so that they can build the access roads to the turbines. Is this ecological, I don't think so when we are losing forests all around the world. So come on people, wake up and make a stand against companies who want to destroy North Wales.