I descend from what our family calls the "Welsh Gordons", or the "North Wales Gordons". I'm told that our ancestor General Lord Charles Gordon (1722-1762) was son of the 2nd Duke of Gordon. For reasons too lengthy to explain here, most records exclude Charles' name as a son of Alexander, the 2nd Duke of Gordon.
Charles fought in the Battle of Culloden in 1746 with other Jacobites, along with his younger brother Lord Lewis Gordon.
After this 2nd rebellion failed, Lord Lewis fled to France where he died of his wounds. Meanwhile, Charles fled to Wales, apparently tagging along with carpetbaggers - the Duke of Cumberland was particularly brutal in tracking down all who had rebelled.
In Wales, Charles fathered a son, Edward (1760-1825). Somehow, the surname adopted was the name "Hope". The story has passed down through our family that this was an attempt by Charles to evade capture for having participated in the Battle of Culloden against the Crown. Nevertheless, he was eventually caught and hung, drawn and quartered, and buried in a 'felon's grave' at Llanbeblig Church, Caernarfon, for the crime of treason.
The descendants of Charles (through Edward Hope) came in two main branches that I am aware of - a 'senior branch' and a junior branch.
The men in the senior branch apparently adopted the name Gordon (e.g. 'John Gordon Hope', 'Percy Gordon Hope' etc.) as a way of either holding on to their heritage or perhaps of making claim to the Gordon titles; i.e. when the main line of the Clan Gordon died out of direct male heirs upon the 1836 death of George, 5th Duke of Gordon, there appeared to be a crisis. The title 'Marquis of Huntly' had to be passed to a direct male heir. Although the Welsh Gordons were the closest male heirs, having descended from the 2nd Duke of Gordon, this had been covered up or obliterated either to protect Charles from capture and/or to protect theclan from false claimants. The title therefore went to a much farther, more junior branch of the Clan Gordon, the Earls of Aboyne. The 5th Earl of Aboyne therefore was granted caretaker of the title, and was granted the Earldom and Marquessate of Huntly, Lordship of Badenoch, and other titles as a result.
As for the title of "Duke of Gordon", it instead passed to Charles Lennox, the 5th Duke of Richmond and Lennox.. (Actually, a new 'Duke of Gordon' title was created under UK peerage at this point). Charles Lennox was nephew to the 5th Duke of Gordon (who had died without male issue) through the 5th Duke's sister Lady Charlotte Gordon.
As I said before, it may be that the senior branch of the Welsh Gordons (the Hope family) re-adopted the name 'Gordon' in order to make claim to the Gordon titles. In any event, the senior branch of the Welsh Gordons died out by around 1889 and at about the same time the junior branch of the Hopes (re)adopted the Gordon name (e.g. my maternal grandfather's name was Henry Gordon Hope, of Caernarvon).
The above story has been passed down apparently generation to generation, and was researched and confirmed by genealogists in the Hope family. As I took an interest in all of this, I benefited from their hard work.
Also, I re-read some old letters I'd received from the family genealogist. Apparently, when Lord Charles Gordon fled southward, he stopped in Linlithgow which I am told was a Hope stronghold. That is where he is said to have adopted the name. Then he moved further south with a caravan of silk merchants, eventually settling in North Wales. I note from my own research on the internet that there are some sites suggesting that a son 'Charles Gordon' of the 2nd Duke of Gordon lived until death in March 1780 in Edinburgh, which contradicts our story. This has raised questions on my part, and I have sought clarification from relatives on this matter. However, I am told that the Hope genealogists conducted most of their research from official Clan Gordon records over the course of 10 years, before officially presenting their findings to the Clan, where our branch has since been well received.
your comments
Lily Smith from Caernarfon
Original Gordon Hope family of Caernarfon not died out in 1800 as stated. Members of family still living in Caernarfon, as I am a Gordon Hope out of a family of 3 existing members still living in Caernarfon.
Thu Feb 5 13:22:50 2009
Graham Gordon-Horwood
To Edward Gordon & Andrew Bruins: I have noticed that you are researching into the Duke of Gordon Estate. The Estate did belong to the Duke of Gordon until his death in 1836. It is nonsense that it was ever sold or acquired by the crown and the truth of the matter is, that the Duke DID have a son and two daughters so did in actual fact have a male heir, therefore the estate should never have been obtained by the in-laws of the Duke's sister's son, Charles Lennox and in actual fact it was unlawfully taken decades after 1836 - the estate was never passed on legally - hence the scandal cover-up and depriving the lawful Gordon heirs to their estate.
Tue Sep 23 09:30:11 2008
EDWARD GORDON
To Andrew Bruins if you are able to aquire a 1836 burkes peerage and then compare the duke of gordon entry to ownership of Balmoral where it states that the esttate was sold by the Earl of Huntley in 16th century, in WIKIPEDIA it sates sir robert gordon had the estate until it was sold to her MAjesty Queen Victoria but if you manage to get a copy of burkes peerage 1836 you will see it was the country retreat of the Duke of Gordon,until his death in 1836.
Wed Aug 13 09:29:14 2008
Edward Gordon
Hi again andrew if your able to aquire a burkes peerage book published 1835-1836 which they now say was thier first edition and look up Duke of Gordon, On the Scottish vacation website, the crown list that the estate was purchased by the crown prior to the last duke of gordons death yet burkes peerage have it listed as his country estate.they say the estate was sold by the earl of huntly in 15 century then to farquharson then the earl of fife all total fabricated lies as that book will show.
Tue Aug 12 10:31:29 2008
Graham Gordon-Horwood
Thank you Andrew Bruins and Edward Gordon for your info, very interesting. A similar story was also passed down through my family connecting us to the Dukes of Gordon. Quite possible we are related too. Please can you help with a piece of my family tree jigsaw? I am looking for the Ancestors/Dukedom connection to William Gordon born 1781/82, married to Ann and parents to Ann Gordon born 1822 (London?) being my Great Great Grandmother. Any information would be greatly received or if you can direct me to where I could find this information?
Mon Aug 4 09:16:11 2008
Edward Gordon
To Jack Jones, in defence. Andrew is correct, the senior line did die out in 1889. It is the line of Robert 1781-1803 his line being the eldest son of Edward 1760-1826, Edward's younger son and Robert's younger brother William 1797-1870 became the senior line. Also the senior line at present is carried by Anthony who is the grandson of John Hope, John being the eldest son of William Hope boilermaker. If Anthony has no issue it would passed to Kevin Hope, grandson of Hugh Morris Hope, younger brother of John.
Fri May 23 09:37:57 2008
Art Reid
I am most interested in learning more about Sir Joseph Reid and Ann Gordon, my 5th gg grandparents. I have my genealogy from Sir Thomas Reid, to Texas in 1856. Does anyone know how Sir Thomas and Sir Joseph Reid gained their titles? I am also most interested in Anne Gordon's ancestry.
Fri Feb 8 11:13:41 2008
Andrew Bruins, of London Canada
Thanks Jack Jones - I was just going by what info I had, but it makes more sense that there are descendants of the senior line. Perhaps you have more info you can share?
Paula Morris Jones - thanks for your post; seems you and I are 2nd cousins, as with Derek Williams and his sister Hefina Hope Evans who also posted here.
Edward Gordon - I would love to get in touch, as you seem to have a lot of valuable information, but don't know how to contact you.
Mon Jan 14 09:19:38 2008
Melissa Browder-Forrester
I stumbled across this but was very glad I did. I too am of the line of Sir Thomas Reid and very much enjoyed this information. Any additional is greatly appreciated on any or all, especially on Anne Gordon b. 12 Aug 1719, Inverness, Scotland.
Mon Jan 14 09:05:32 2008
Gordon Taylor from Cumbria
For the attention of Gordon Howells. You mention that the Gort(d)on connection with Gower can be traced back to 1499. Could you please tell the ancestors of Henry Gorton Senior who lived at Weobley Castle Farm in the 17th century.
Wed Jan 9 14:55:19 2008
Jack Jones
Andrew Bruins, your claim that the Senior branch died out in the 19th century is unfounded. There are many descendants of the senior branch of Welsh Gordons still alive and carrying on the family name to this day.
Fri Dec 7 11:15:05 2007
Sami Wilkie from Dubai
I am very interested in the GordonHope connection, as I'm tracing my husband's tree, and his mother was a Counsell, born in India. Checking old records, the names Gordon & Hope keep appearing as middle names in the family. Anyone have any idea if any of the Gordon/Hope family moved to Calcutta, India? The furthest back I've managed to trace is Sophia Emilia Gordon marrying a William Sinclair in 1821.
Thu Aug 16 09:55:24 2007
Paula Morris-Jones(Hope)Caernafon
To Andrew Bruins,Re Gordon/Hope.My Mother was a hope. I have a hand written family tree from my mothers fathers family he was William David Hope Born 1887 the second son of William born1859,he was a boiler maker in Caernarfon. I was always told the story of the "Duke of Gordon" and and his death,but I was told that the name Hope was taken by the family to avoid the goverment troops and they settled not far from Wrexham in North Wales and that the Village of Hope was founded by them. I would love to know if this is the case.
I also noticed another lady mentions the boilermakers conection. there are a number of phopos of the Hope Bro.,foundery in Caernarfon.
Mon Jun 25 10:13:52 2007
Gordon Howells of Swansea
My mother's family where the Gordons of Weobly Castle, my grandfather was Thomas Weobley Gordon and can trace our contection in Gower back 500 years.
Fri Jun 15 16:48:02 2007
Bernice Hope Doyle from Texas USA
I have recently joined a Hope Surname DNA group. My brother did the testing. We have a Haplo group E3B - and shows a recent origin of Wales. There is another member that matches our DNA with 2 steps missing. My oldest ancestor is G. Caleb H. Hope - born 1819 in North Carolina USA. On a federal US census Caleb said his parents were born in North Carolina also. The information about Wales came just recently and I'm very interested in the names Gordon and Hope. Can anyone help me?
Tue Feb 13 08:54:42 2007
Edward Gordon
Firstly for cat fifer, lord charles and lord lewis did have a siter named ann who married the 2nd earl of aberdeen, but also they had six daughters in total as follows: lady anne, lady betty, lady catherine, and four more whose names have been ommitted from the tree for some reason yours, could have changed her name to her elder sisters, or it's the same person. for the attention of Andrew Bruins Canada, look forward to hearing from you andrew, pierce hope and cecil luckman were the main reserchers for the family and myself, so u have the correct names on your file.
Thu Dec 14 10:09:48 2006
Paul Kane from Lanark
To Andrew, we may have a connection on another side. I am a direct descendent of the 5th Duke of Richmond and Lennox. I am the only male left in the family of one of his seven brothers who was deposed and rid of the family due to an illegitimate child and marriage to a cook’s daughter.
He then went on to own coal mines in Sheffield, most of which remained with my family for nearly 100 years.
Thu Dec 14 09:57:59 2006
Jim Dryhurst, Leeds
Re Kay Slater's query - I am a direct descendant of William Dryhurst and Grace Jones. Their first children were christened in St Peblig's. They then moved to Liverpool (my home town) where later children were christened in the parish church of St Nicholas. I should like to trace the family further back.
Thu Nov 9 09:47:14 2006
Edward Gordon
For the attention of andrew bruins. firstly charles was never a general - he was a captain in lord loudon;s regiment. he deserted the british ranks along with simon frazer, the brother of his wife Margaret. both simon and margaret were the children of lord lovatt. they deserted at the battle of donrnoch to join the jacobites in readiness for the later battle of colloden. due to their actions they were hunted as deserters.
simon was captured but was pardoned butafter the battle of colloden charles escaped with his wife.
charles made his way northward again to llanfairfechan where he was captured and trIed by his peers in caernarfon - the trial was chairEd by the then sir wynn who was elevated to lord newbourough just after charles’ death – he was hung drawn and quartered and stripped of his title, earl of enzie but since he was not a duke - at the time of his death those titles were not affected by the judgement nor were they taken into account, therefore when the last duke of gordon from the main line died without issue the title reverts back to a surviving line male heirs,and the only one to have issue was charles,from the line of the second duke of gordon.
charles is first son was named simon after his mothers brother, but he died in infancy,your line and now the main line comes from his younger brother edward who is your great great greatgreat grandfather.
Mon Aug 14 11:13:41 2006
Cat Fifer of US
Does anyone know if Lord Charles and Lord Lewis Gordon had a sister named Anne? My ancestors are Sir Joseph Reid and his wife, Anne Gordon, who married June 23, 1734 according to distant Reid relative researchers. Sir Joseph and his father, Sir Thomas Reid, were Jacobites from Inverness. After Culloden, Joseph and Anne Gordon Reid were exiled to Virginia Colony. I've only just begun research on the Reid/Gordons. This is all very interesting.
Mon Apr 3 05:31:37 2006
Mike Dooley, Kent
I am connected to the Gordons of Gower through my Great Grandmother Elizabeth Gordon (b.1850 Cwmavon), and am trying to make the (long rumoured connection) with the Gordons who lived at Weobly Castle, in Llanridian during the 1800's. Anyone have any ideas?
Mon Mar 20 11:30:41 2006
Gordon Taylor from Cumbria
Whilst researching my mother's ancestry - she is a Gordon from Gower, South Wales, I found out that the family's surname had changed from Gorton to Gordon in the early 18th Century. Can anyone explain why this happened?
Mon Feb 20 15:12:35 2006
Andrew Bruins from London, Ontario, Canada got in touch to tell us about his family's aristocratic roots.
