Ysgubor Goch is a housing estate in Caernarfon, where nicknames stick for generation after generation until the origins have long been forgotten.
Llion Williams spoke to some of the characters on the estate for BBC Radio Cymru to get a taste of what it's like to live there. He met members of long established families like the Lovells, the Bohanas and Beales; got an idea of what work there is around - or not; how members of the community help each other, their humour and culture and their remarkable success in breeding soccer players.
One resident, Catherine Lewis, has had 17 children and brought up yet another. "There are a lot of large families here, but none as big as mine," she says. She's been in her house for 25 years and has also seen many changes. "There's nowhere to go in Caernarfon these days," she says, "Only bingo."
When another resident, Elizabeth 'Abedyfi' used to go to the bingo with her friends, her husband Twm would be left to look after the children. Gerald Parry remembers playing out in the street when he was six or seven years old.
"Uncle Twm would call us all in to have supper - chips and lemonade - then send us to bed. I remember saying to him 'Uncle Twm, I don't live here' but he took no notice. So when Aunty Liz came home and checked on the children she was surprised to see me."
The Lovells were a gipsy family, and Dennis Williams, whose mother was a Lovell, talks about his pride in being one of the family. "They were fishermen, out in the bay," he says. "They had fun and brought food in as well. Jim still collects cockles and they still get together every Christmas and New Year to sing with the ukelele. I'm so glad I'm part of the family."
And who would believe that so many successful footballers came from the estate? There was Wyn Davies who played for Wales as well as Manchester United and Manchester City and Tom Whalley, who played for Spurs and was a successful trainer for Watford, bringing in a lot of Welsh boys to the side, including Ken Owen from the estate.
After Trawsfynydd was decommissioned and as Wylfa no longer offers so much work, unemployment has been a problem for the people of Caernarfon. The armed forces offer a popular option.
With so many people speaking Welsh on the estate and continuing to live similar lives to the predecessors, Ysgubor Goch survives as a microcosm of a Welsh way of life which has disappeared from many Welsh towns, holding on to its unique humour and traditions.
your comments
Meic Arthurr-Bakker
I wonder how many remember Wil Slwdge, Arwyn Pickle-Factory, Denise Williams, Chesney Waterboard, The 'Muncs', Tecwyn 'Slurpy' Jones, Henry Fotherington-Smythe (the one who moved in from Sussex) and Marian 'Goodtime' Price? Many good people sadly no longer with us.
Mon Jun 15 10:16:44 2009
gwynfor pritchard, sydney australia
i left caernarfon in 1955 to join the welsh guards. after completing 9 years i moved to australia. served 6 years in the australian army and after service in s.vietnam became permenarly disabled.worked for 23 years as a volunteer looking after veterans worse off than myself.on australia day 26th jan 2009 i recived the prestiges award of 'Order of Australia Medal'on the Queens honour list.So a boy from ysguborgoch has been awarded Australias highest award,an proud of it.
Mon Feb 23 11:19:53 2009
Martin Harrow Maidstone
I have read some of the other correspondence & was interested in the Fire Service photo's a I knew most of the men in it as I had also been a part-time fireman at c'von. Jim Parry was the Station Offcer, with Sam Jones as L/Fireman,Will Roberts who lived at the top of Ysgubor Goch and used to be in the control room until I joined then i took over. the full time members included Elved, The Station used to be behind my mothers house which was 14 Ysgbour Goch. Then it was moved to it's present lockation on Llanberis road.
Tue Feb 3 09:25:42 2009
Martin Harrow from ysgubor goch
I have just been reading about the old town - the last time I was up there was to see my old friend Stan who has now sadly died; Iwas brought up in the town and still remember some of the charecters that grew up with me but I moved out in 1959 but more of that at a later date Nice to read about the old town
Fri Jan 30 11:02:15 2009
Gwyn Pritchard
I had the honour of been presented with one of Australia's highest awards [Medal of the Order of Australia] on Australia Day and would like to add that a boy born and bred in Ysguborgoch can be proud of themselves regardless of where we come from. Iechyd da!
Wed Jan 28 09:47:45 2009
Tony Roberts, Caernarfon.
Reading some of the comments on here that go against Caernarfon, they don't know how good it was at that time, when people used to help each other out, you knew and trusted your neighbours, unlike today. I am a true and proud Cofi.
Mon Jan 19 09:27:17 2009
Joan Goghan Hengert
I used to live in Maes Barcer and Caegarreg. I've been away from Caernarfon since 1972, I too look forward to going home, but the town has really changed. The people are the same - friendly, funny and welcoming, but it's a shame how the town has gone downhill. I do agree that the council is to blame, nothing is ever done.
Mon Oct 6 10:21:54 2008
t thomas manchester
caernarfon is great dont knock it the people are genuine, and it's nice to know such people are around. my whole family come from scips and there all brilliant and my neighbourhood council is elected by the people so change it.
Mon Sep 22 10:34:21 2008
Anon, Caernarfon
I've been reading all the comments and find it very sad that there are cofis divided out there. Caernarfon is a beautiful town, but this little town will never prospor with the councellors we have, that part I found very true by one writer. As for skips, I have mixed feelings, I was brought up there near cae top and our neighbours were lovely and I knew everyone that lived up the top near us. I have to say that my parents were never really keen on us going far away from the house or roaming around the estates!As for the people who live there now, you just can't paint everyone with the same brush,that only shows how arrogant people are and how stereotypes are made of. The majority of people who live there are lovely people, clean and would do anything for you, it's the minority of rubbish who are to blame, but there is a minority of rubbish in every town isn't there, we see it more here because it's a small town and a small council estate compared to the cities.
I don't live there anymore but my brother and his wife and two sisters do, so do my parents, they are never in trouble with the law, houses are clean, all of them work and so do most of the neighbours around them. To all who live in Skips who know they are good honnest people, rise above the snobbery because you know you are better people and to be honest most of the ones who look down on you, living on their so called posh estates around caernarfon in their new cars thinking they are better than you, they are the real rubbish because they want to forget where they have come from! Honestly it's true, because from experience those who are born into money and have never been poor are the nicest people you could meet, it's the ones who have had nothing and made something are the real rubbish. Be proud of yourselves, us cofis are on of a kind!
Fri Aug 29 09:23:33 2008
Jason Bohana, Cardiff
"Dre" is still a great place, and will always be. It's what makes us "cofis" us. I moved away 10 years ago, and i am still a proud cofi, and always will be. It's true what my dad told my Uncle Larry said, if you dont like it, then move away! And i am sure i have said it in much nicer way than what my dad did!
Tue Aug 26 11:19:29 2008
Gordon Williams, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Just come across your web page; Nice to read it out here in Malaysia, and read that certain names from my past, even if not in Caernafon or UK are still around;Eddie Rowles & Alwn, also a few other names,listed.I left "Y Dre" late 50s, went to sea returned for a few years mid 60s and left again to work away, I have been working away ever since, return to "Y Dre" when I'm back in the UK, to visit my brother, family & frends who still live there.
Of course the town has changed, and it has gone down, but let's not knock it'! s people, good genuine characters have come from "Sgibs". I have lived and worked in most parts of the world, belive me there is a lot worse.What really spoiled "Y dre" was "The road" they built thru it. Sad thing is, any one who wish to drive further, drive bypass "Dre" any way. Will keep my eyes open for this web page from now on."Hen co dre"
Mon Jul 21 09:52:41 2008
Tony Jenkins from Liverpool
I spent 3 years in Caernarfon during the war. My Dad was in the RAF at Llandwrog. My favourite places were: The Majestic; The Empire and The Guild hall cinema. My Dad knew the manager of the Majestic. I think he was in the same regiment. I paid 1/2 pence to cross the Aber bridge.We lived opposite the 'Eagle pub' in Tithebarn street. I went to St Helens school, also did a paper round for Mrs Bullock until she died. Still visit the town and climb Twtwl Rock. love from Tony. senior citizen
Wed Jul 9 14:26:47 2008
DAVID RAWSON ELLIS,( SOSBAN)
to gog from pembrokeshire, just what my brother hughie would do to get a free pint-tel everyone it was his birthday everyday. You ccan't have visited caernarfon in the last three years or you would have known that hughie ( rawson) had passed away, by the way his birthday was on the 7th of april,
Fri Jul 4 10:16:37 2008
Anon
I have lived in Caernarfon all my life and it makes my blood boil when I hear people slag the Cofis off.Don’t class us all like the trash you see walking in gangs round town. We are employed, we do own our own homes, we don’t go out at weekends, take drugs and say c*** every other word, and another thing we don’t all say ch instead of the letter ll. We can actually speak properly. And, yes, I’ve actually lived in Sgibs. There’s no better people than the ones that live on the estate. The old genuine characters and their families.
Mon Jun 23 09:55:05 2008
The Gog from Pembrokeshire
I left Dre a few a years ago now, but love going home if only to see the people (nothing left to see in town anyway)!! Even though I wasnt brought up in sgybs, a few of my mates were from there and they were real-not a selfish bone amongst them! If I ever needed to get some sponsors for anything to do with town-I'd go down sgybs, as you knew that every door you went to you'd get a warm welcome and that they'd give you their last niwc! (Much better than if you went up to tai spam at the other end of town!)Loved working in some of the pubs in dre,! especially during the quiet afternoons when all the characters were around telling their tales of the olden days (I remeber Hughie sosban used to ask for a free drink every day as it was his birthday!)See you soon cofis!!!
Thu Jun 19 09:47:37 2008
David Ellis, Rhyl
I am one of the Sospan family and a Cofi. The Sospans and the Crochans were related, my great grandfather was David Sospan and his brother was called Hugh Fawr Crochan, both were tin men and used to repair sospans and crochan, hence the nicknames. I was a commercial salmon fisherman for 25 years on the Menai Strait and the Lovells were still fishing in those days. You're right about the fishing industry not having the support, hundreds of visitors and locals would come down on the beach to watch the salmon netsmen and listen to the leg pulling etc, wonderful memories, all gone, like everything else in Caernarfon.
Tue Jun 3 14:12:57 2008
gwynfor,[big] australia
who can remember salmon poaching, me and david ellis got chased after catching a beauty, so we hid it in llanbeblig church graveyard. next morning couldnt find it, or the game keeper pinched it. good old days in sgub.
Mon Apr 21 10:43:29 2008
Ronald Jones
This town is like every town in the uk,the country like the town is on a downward spiral, if you allow it. Dont get me wrong - Australia has its places too but they seem to act quickly to solve the problem. Over here we work as a community and the going's on matter to us, also the police are involved & we work together to solve the problem. this does not seem to happen in c'fon. the next council elections, you need to find out what they have to offer families in c'fon & if your not happy then simply dont vote them in.
Thu Apr 3 09:44:15 2008
alison
I have just read all the comments about caernarfon and yes the town has changed and not for the better. shops closing down ugly monsters in the dock (thanks to our great council and watkin jones) but what are we all doing about it? nothing but moaning on here. we need to do something about it - have pride in our town and not let those men and women in penrallt tell us what to do. they are there to work for us, thats why we voted for them.
I spent all my holidays with my grandmother in this town and she loved it there; we would walk in the morning to the shops and over the aber after lunch.
Tue Apr 1 09:40:10 2008
Anon - C'fon
I still live in Caernarfon, and I went to Maesincla school during the 70s where most of my friends came from the Ysgubor Goch area. Although I didn't live at that end of town, I was raised very much the same as everyone else, and I felt no different. I do remember school trips where half the kids would be on the bus, and the other half sadly left behind. My friends from the Ysgubor Goch area have never been out of work, are still happily married and have raised their children well. They all had better qualifications than myself, having attended universities and gained degrees. True, they no longer livde there and have moved on, but one of my friends who now lives outside of C'fon, was recalling her childhood recently. She was telling me how poor their family were, but that they were well fed (stews, fruit and homemade cakes - cheaper to make for the family and more wholesome than most of the other kids of C'fon who were fed on microwave meals at that time includin g myself!). Unfortunately, some of my other classroom friends turned out to be grandmothers before they were 40, and I know of others who have damaged their lives by not having a healthy enough lifestyle.
These are the people who no not value their own lives or the lives of their children, and give Ysgubor Goch a bad reputation.
I drove to my friends house the other day (in Maes Barcer), at 7:30pm. In the middle of the road was a little lad of about 5 years old on a tricycle. What on earth was he doing out at that time of night? When you have such irresponsible parents, I can only agree agree with the derogatory comments made, but I also don't tarnish everyone with the same brush. I only hope that the babies I see being pushed by the gymslip mums in their "Bench" tracksuits, turn out to make something of themselves and have a brighter future....
Fri Mar 28 09:47:55 2008
Ronald Jones
To the comments below, it boils down to teaching your kids respect, i grew up in ysgubor goch, we had nothing and we knew nothing, we were happy to be kids living life, one thing though i taught myself was respect, to treat every person that crossed my path the same way that i would like to be treated. now living in Australia i pass this to my 3 children and through respect of others, my children are the best. the point is if i can do it anyone can, doesn't matter where you come from in life, if i was still living in cfon i would still teach my children the meaning of respect,
this is where cfon has fallen down and until that starts coming back into the lives of families in that town then i fear what the town will be like in 10 to 20 years from now? love the place to bits and have very fond memories of growing up there and to know so many great and wonderful people. that needs to come back, i wonder 20 years from now what type of feedback we will have on this page from the generation of children that are growing up there now, dont think they will have the fond memories we have when we were their age.
Tue Mar 25 10:32:46 2008
Reginald Harristals
I'm afraid to say that we have lost some of these great characters from Caernarfon. I grew up with no brothers or sisters, but I found great friends in the sgyybs. Salt of the earth, who knew how to have a great laugh, and could drink anyone under the table. Just don't walk around there in bare feet, or you'll be bleeding all the way to A and E!
Wed Mar 19 08:39:21 2008
anon, caernarfon
Clare: I was saying in general what a mess Caernarfon is, as for Coed Marion, I know it well, played in cae top as a youngster every day of my young life, but just look what they are doing to Cae top! It shouldn't have been touched, it's protected land, councillors again! I'm sorry you disagree with me over skips, but last time I drove past (memories) there were women drinking tennants supers on walls outside their homes, kids as young as 2 running in the middle of the road etc, they are our future, doesn't that make you sad and angry? All of town is in disarray, I was followed home by a gang of lads from town to Hendre one Friday night, knew who a few of them were, remember their parents at school and they live at skips. I was brought up in skips and my father lived there until 10 years ago, never been ashamed of where I came from, NEVER. But surely you have to see how rough it has become. I knew everybody who lived in each house, now there are so many strangers there, I personally couldn't call it a community anymore.
Wed Mar 19 08:35:12 2008
Claire
Dear Anon: I agree with most of your comments on here but I was brought up in Coed Marion (cae top). My dad still lives there, I work and have never been on the dole or in trouble with the police and I'm not a chav. I think most of the country are scroungers now thanks to the Labour government. I would also like to say that you'd be a lot safer walking on my estate than any other place in Caernarfon. I live in Maesincla now and I've had 10 yobs from that area going through my back garden and they have given me a lot of abuse, that would never have happened to me in skips.
Mon Mar 17 15:53:11 2008
anon, caernarfon
I've lived in caernarfon all my life and used to love it. Now in my 40s I think if opportunity arose, I would quite happily move as far away as possible. The town is in a complete mess. The victoria dock is a disgrace, C'fon is not Cardiff Bay! The councillors in this town should concentrate on the heritage of the town and appealing to holiday makers, and if so many of them weren't masons and looking after each other, c'fon would prosper so much, and all people of caernarfon know I am telling the truth. As for Ysgubor Goch, I was brought up in Lon Eilian and my parents still lived there up to 10 years ago, such a community. But today there would be no way i would walk alone around that area. It is rundown and is full of thugs and chavs - does anyone actually work there, or just scrounging? Teenage pregnancies, kids with prams all around caernarfon, it's awful. As for the gangs that hang around caernarfon, kicking a man's head in and abusing a 60 year old woman is not clever. Get a job and grow up. Makes me angry to think that a once beautiful town with all its lovely characters has just vanished in the last 10 years.
Mon Mar 17 11:04:53 2008
Maxine - Manchester
I moved to Caernarfon for 18 months and I have to say it was a shock coming from a big city to a small close knit community. Everyone knows your ins and outs but I have never met so many kind and welcoming people anywhere! Every area has its good and and bad points, that's a given. Blame the council, the people, whatever. It's not just Caernarfon that's being run down, it's everywhere! I can't say I liked the night life at all but each to their own. I moved back to Manchester because it has more to offer but I only have good memories of Caernarfon. There are people there that I'll remember and miss forever.
Mon Mar 17 11:01:40 2008
Will (Snail) Jones aka Miami Will - Spain
To Toff Side: when I was a child I used to deliver Sunday papers and I used to deliver milk with Ken Tate "loved that man like a dad" and every Christmas the people of Ysgubor Goch would give more than anybody and they were warmer and friendlier than anybody. And those qualities will remain forever. And, my friend, I can tell you one thing that a 100% Ysgubor Goch person can be proud of, and that is the fact that you're not from there. Have a nice day.
Mon Mar 17 10:58:02 2008
norman & janice pengwyn
after 30 years in adelaide south ozz, it was like a breath of fresh air reading about all my mates back home, my mother emily is still living at maes barcer, and i hope to bring her out for my son's wedding in 2009. still need to catch up on michel snail in sydney. we both left town same year. barry stone & malcom bee were my best mates. where's the cash club gone? the good old days, my grandmother used to work in the black boy. gerald did stay with me here in adelaide and grace from qld we have met. cofi "dre"!
Tue Mar 4 14:07:24 2008
jon hefin - Llandudno
Apart from the castle, Caernarfon ought to receive protection as a piece of social history. It has its own dialect, a warmth and friendship that is rare. I was invited to do the census on Ysgubor Goch on two occasions and found the people friendly with a good sense of humour. I did my school practice in Ysgol Maesincla and sent my three year old daughter to the same school. Saturday night was so special, a visit to The Empire or the Majestic cinema, then joining the stream of walkers round the block looking for a girl friend and so, if one was lucky, a cuddle in the dark corners of the old castle. I have very happy memories, the market stalls on the square at night with their oil lamps. Queues waiting for the last buses. I remember a drunken sailor home on leave standing beneath the statue of Sir Hugh Owen on the square, announcing that "This man is very ill, He is sinking fast." This was a reference to Lloyd George whose statue was on the other side of the square. I shall always treasure my visit to the "Feed My Lambs" to talk with the local members.
Mon Feb 25 10:01:32 2008
Cofi bach oddi cartref
Caernarfon, like everywhere else, has its down side, but I hope that 'Toff Side' never falls off his high horse in London as he won't find a Cofi to pick him up like he would back home!
Tue Feb 12 09:37:01 2008
Toff Side
I lived in C'fon but thankfully on the posh side. Ysgubor Goch has nothing to be proud of - underage drinking, violence, nutjob families, gymslip mothers and skips in gardens. Now I work in London and make a fat load of cash -unlike those who still live there.
Tue Jan 29 09:20:26 2008
Rod Williams from Liverpool (now Canada)
Does anyone have a photo of the old Starlight Cafe, which used to be behind what is now Wetherspoons? My friends and I used to camp in the field beside the old Ferodo plant, after we came down on our motorbikes from Liverpool, from 1966 to 1968. I am in touch with one person from those days, although she now lives in the Midlands and I am in Canada. Maybe someone will remember Rod, Des, Brian, and Jimmy, all from Liverpool.
Mon Jan 21 16:06:15 2008
Ron Jones
To all the people that think Caernarfon is being criticised too much, it's not the people or the town as such, it's the crappy council that the town has. they are so out of touch with everything, what have they done to the sgibs side of cfon? nothing, never have and never will. so it's the council we all need to look at and the amount of money they waste each year on mindless projects that don't help the true people of cfon.
Mon Jan 14 09:18:01 2008
pat, caernarfon
I use to live in caernarfon many years ago - still go back, nothing wrong with the place. don't know why people critisizing the town. lots of decent people are salt of the earth, when the chips are down they all come togethere like last week when the beales girls passed away RIP, all of sgibs were there and that says it all about caernarfon people - we are always there when you needs us.
Mon Dec 3 10:43:42 2007
Grace E Roberts Queensland Australia
I love reading this page especially when I come across the names of those that I knew many years ago. I to am an x sgybs girl as you who read my snippetts know I do a lot of work for the Welsh Communities of Australia.
Thu Nov 15 09:49:09 2007
David Williams
Have a look at the photograph of the men who built Ysgubor Goch estate. My uncle is one of them. It is on the Caernarfon Memory Lane website.
Wed Sep 26 10:13:00 2007
