Nigel Hilton offers some more Abergele memories.
One of your contributors (Sandy from Gardner, Mass. USA) mentioned that their great great grandfather built Bryngwenallt and Tan yr Allt. I thought it would be of interest to their family and other readers to see the attached photographs. I think the picture of Yr Allt (below) would have been taken around 1925 or so.
As an aside, when my family moved to the area (my father worked at the Chest Hospital) in the 1940s, they lived for a while at Fox Hole. My eldest brother helped out as a farm hand at Siamber Wen (the farm in the middle foreground of the Bryngwenallt picture above) for the Vaughan family, before joining the Royal Marines.
I believe that from Fox Hole, they stayed at Bryn Aber, on Llanfair Road (where Emrys ap Iwan was born in 1851 and after whom the Grammar School was renamed when it became comprehensive in the late 1960s) with my mother working in some capacity or other at Bryngwenallt Hall for Lord and Lady Clwyd.
My brother was quite a talented young artist and, so the story goes, the Clwyds offered to pay for him to attend art school/college. He gracefully declined the opportunity!
I recall visiting the hall in the mid 1960s, after it had been converted into apartments, as I had friends who lived there. The long gravel drive from the lodge on Llanfair Road onwards, was well populated with assorted trees and rhododendron bushes, some of which had become sizeable trees in their own right. Sweeping lawns were still there, but the place had a sad air about it - faded glory perhaps best summed it up.
The main entrance was around the back (west side) of the property, facing the Tan y Goppa road side. Tall, double wooden doors studded with large, handmade nails, were set under a gothic arch and led into a beautiful hall/reception area, but the magnificent 'marble' stairway that swept upwards in a graceful curve was the true delight.
I believe that a few years after that, the hall was sold off for use as a private home and part of the property was demolished, much reducing it in size. I seem to recall being told that the area from the entrance hall and to the north had totally gone, though the staircase survived. As I have never revisited from those days in the 1960s, I couldn't say with certainty.
There used to be a small path which led from by the main entrance doors, through the garden and shrubbery to the northwest wall. There was a barred metal gate there which led to a short tunnel underneath Tan y Goppa road, giving access to what appeared to be part of an old quarry area; much overgrown and with many ferns in those areas of deep shade, it was used by tenants to hang out their washing and as a secluded garden.
Nigel Hilton
Postscript: "I wondered if your readers may be interested in seeing a fairly recent photograph of Bryngwenallt. The Hall, now only half the size it once was (due to re-modelling work circa late 1960s - early 1970s), is almost hidden in the trees above Siamber Wen farm (the low, white buildings in the foreground). Most of the right-hand side fields, which appear in the original image, have now been built on following various modern urban development programmes." Nigel Hilton.
your comments
Bob Underhill
Ref to Reece Davies Llanfairtalhaiarn - We lived in the Turnpike Cottage (Hen Durpeg) for ten years. Built around 1852, extended and modernised in the late 1990s. We spoke to an owner that moved out in the 1950s. The story of the twins who died as infants of TB is true. We did experience a lot of spirit activity during our ten years at the house, however it was not unpleasant, more mischievous.It was a Tollhouse for about four years, before being closed by an act of parliament. The toll road ran up the side of the property not along the main St Georges Road, as you would think. The old road can be clearly seen at the top of the hill into Nant Ddu farmyard. The road belongs to the estate and was returned back to them by rules of emparkment after the parliament act. We collected a lot of history about the building during our time there.
Mon Jan 12 09:48:58 2009
Mick Gilsenan from Crewe
Nigel Hilton, Thank you for the information about the railway carriages used as accommodation in the station area of Pensarn.
Mon Jun 23 14:10:23 2008
Nigel Hilton from Abergele
To Sarah from Manchester: There are several references to the TB wards at Abergele Hospital on this site (see Memory Lane) but, from personal recollection, your mention of the 'flat roof' leads me to think it was the 'newer' ward, situated across the road from the old 'Plas Uchaf' main building - neither being a part of the surviving hospital buildings of today. I think the 'Plas Uchaf' buildings were demolished around the late 1960's early 1970's. Manchester Corporation (as was) ran the place for many years.A Google search for 'Abergele + Plas Uchaf + TB' may give more results. Hope this helps.
Mon Jun 16 10:45:41 2008
Sarah Manchester
My grandad died recently but spoke of being sent to a sanitarium in abergele when he was a young boy with tb.Does anyone have any info on the place? It had flat roof the patients used to push their beds onto to sleep at night to help their chests and was in the middle of pine forests. I believe it is part of the chest hospital?
Mon May 12 09:52:31 2008
Grenville Williams of Wareham, Dorset
We lived at Top Toll Bar, St George in 1974/5. It was unusual having a hexagonal living room, and a spring rising right under the house !
Mon Apr 21 11:02:27 2008
Reece Davies Llanfairtalhaiarn
My sister bought the Old Turnpike about 1980 but decided to sell it and move to Conwy. It was prompted a bit by being burgled twice within a few months. It's now up for sale. One of the things that she was told about was that a previous tenant had two children, maybe twins who died as infants and were laid out in two small open coffins side by side in what became the lounge under the Minstrel gallery. When she was told this by a well meaning local she felt pretty freaked at the description of two small coffins lit by candlelight! It's a lovely house though and I think it has some good views of the sea.
Fri Apr 18 09:41:18 2008
John Parsons Shropshire
Dear Melissa, I was also evacuated to Bryngwenallt from 1940 to 1943. I was the only boy amongst six girls from two families, the Breens (Margaret, Georgina and Maureen,)and the Flanagans (Kitty. Lena and Pat,) I'd love to know which of these girls was your aunt. I was evacuated to Anglesey in 1939 and rescued by my mother who was the teacher sent to Bryngwenallt to look after the girls. I have many fond memories of life at the Clwyds' wonderful home.
Tue Apr 1 09:34:47 2008
Nigel Hilton from Abergele
Rob, the property, 'Turnpike', that you mention at St George is the one I've referred to in the reply to Helen, below - then known as 'Top Toll Bar'. I believe that down the years it has also been known (locally) by several variants on the name - The Old Tollbar, Turnpike Cottage etc. I can find no specific dates for that property but imagine that it would have been built around the early-to-mid 1700's.
In 1785 the St Asaph Turnpike Trust managed that part of the London-Holyhead route which including (amongst other places) St George & Abergele. The custom was to let the several local Tollgates annually by auction to the best bidder.
Top Toll Bar or Turnpike is located approx 100-150m west of the junction of Fardre Hill & Nant Ddu Road with St Georges Road. An easier way to find it may be to follow the old road west (towards Abergele) from St George village, past the quarry (where Dinorben Hill Fort once was) then continue straight on at the cross-roads. The Turnpike is about 100 or so metres further on to your left - just before the brow of the hill. Perhaps other readers know more on the property's history?
Tue Mar 25 10:12:35 2008
rob webb from Chester
Does anybody know of Turnpike, St. George, nr Abergele?What is the history of this house and where exactly is it?
Mon Mar 17 11:32:59 2008
Nigel Hilton from Abergele
Regarding Helen's enquiry about Bronfelin on St George Road: Around 1880 there was a 'Bron-Felen' which, from old maps, looks to be close to but opposite where Ysgol Emrys ap Iwan is nowadays. A search on www.oldmaps.co.uk for Bronfelin on St George Road, however, centres on two properties, c.1880. One abutting the road is named as Bryn Coch. The other, nearer Abergele, but set back slightly, is shown as Bryn Hyfryd. Not knowing the location of 'Bron Felin' personally, it may be worth a look at that site to see if you can identify either, to help in your search. I've no knowledge of the fire that you mention - perhaps other readers can help, or Abergele library may have copies of old newspapers dating to that period. I've no certain date for when the road was officially titled St George Road but there would have been a track between Abergele and St George, almost certainly dating to the 15th Century & possibly even earlier. Since 1785, the Holyhead-Chester mail coach route had come from St Asaph, via Glascoed to St George, past the quarry and down to Abergele from where it continued onwards. The 1784/85 Stage Coach road from St Asaph to Abergele was a Turnpike Road with Toll Gates at St George (top Toll Bar - still there) and Abergele (Sea Road - long since demolished). Prior to that date, the route ran from Chester to Denbigh and on through Henllan, Betws & Dolwen to Conwy. So there has been some form of track or road between St George & Abergele, more or less along the line of the current St George road, for many years. Hopefully, this is of some help.
Thu Mar 6 09:46:48 2008
helen from abergele
I live on St George Road - I wonder if anyone remembers a fire in a farm on this road about the 1960s, or about the owners; was this road always called St George Road, and was the farm called Bron Felin as it is now?
Mon Feb 18 10:09:53 2008
Wendy Box London
Dear Melissa - my father probably drove the car that took your aunt to Bryngwenallt. My father was Lord Clwyd's chauffeur for many years before the war, but when war broke out and he [Lord C] was based in Abergele and commuted to London by train we moved there also. It could have been that she and I met as I was living first in the lodge and then a little way down the road in Bwthyn-yr Ardd, a cottage across the fields from the main house. Does she remember the Christmas party for us children the Clwyds put on? I am sure we must have met there.I think she might remember the nanny who looked after the Clwyd grandchildren.
Mon Jan 14 09:06:55 2008
Melissa Seader fromPortland, Maine, USA
My Aunt spent time in the BrynGwenallt Hall as an evacuee during WW II. She fondly remembers Lord and Lady Clwyd and had asked me to to go on line and see if I could find out anything about Bryngwenallt Hall or the Clwyds.Any information that you could provide to me would be most appreciated. She thoroughly enjoyed me reading this list of comments to her. She was curious about the name of the chauffer as she remembers being driven from the town of Abergele to Bryngwenallt on the day of her arrival.
Wed Jan 2 09:39:21 2008
Sandy from Gardner, Mass. USA
Dear Nigel, I had a whopping good time in Abergele! My cousin and I saw Bryngwenault, visited Ffrwd and many of the sites listed on the original map handed down from my great grandfather, Henry Jones-Henry. I've promised to send a copy to the Ruthin Archival Depatment. There isn't enough room here to express my gratitude to all of those who made our trip so remorable. We hope to return next year with yet another cousin.
Thu Oct 18 09:48:06 2007
John, Abergele.
Wendy, London. My grandfather was also a chauffeur for Lord and Lady Clwyd at the hall and my mother was a Vaughan and was related to the family in Siamber Wen.
Tue Aug 28 09:49:40 2007
Wendy Box from London
My father worked as chauffer to Lord and Lady Clwyd and at outbreak of war we moved from London to Abergele. First we stayed at Bryngwenallt Lodge with the Wynn's and then moved into Bwthyn yr Ardd on the Llanfair Rd just above Bryn Aber. The photo of Bryngwenallt reminds that every time I returned home by train I used to see it against the hill as we approached Abergele. My sister and I each have a piece of stone carving taken from the house when it was altered. We often used to go to Tan yr Allt where Lord Clwyd's sisters and brother lived. [ to the servants hall mostly] However the photo you show of Yr Allt is a cottage on the road behind Tan Yr Allt. The latter was a large elegant building.
Incidentally, I had a friend who lived in Foxhole and I remember it clearly.I remember Siamber Wen too. I can remember that friend and myself [aged about 12] trying to unload a cart of hay into the barn. I do not know what the Vaughans thought of the mess the next morning.I attended Abergele County School, as it was then called, with D.B. Jones as headmaster. We played hockey against schools all over N. Wales. Nothing much else went on in the way of school outings. My maiden name is Jones but we were not welsh. There were so many places to explore and play, and I still dream about it.
Wed Jun 6 11:35:40 2007
Nigel Hilton from Abergele
Hi Sandy, I've been following the correspondence on the Ask a Local page as well regarding Ffrwd. Sadly I can offer little information other than that the Denbighshire Records Office appear to have a document on file relating to riots in 1850 at Coed y Brain pit, Ffrwyd. The actual entry reads:
RIOTS
Description: Case papers re riot at Coed y Brain pit on Ffrwd estate. 1850 - Whether there is any connection, I don't know. Good luck with your researches and we hope you have a pleasant visit to Abergele later this year.
Tue Mar 20 09:48:09 2007
