Trevor childhood

Last updated: 17 June 2009

your comments

Ian Diggory (Durham)
We moved from Berwyn to a shiny new council house in George Avenue when I was about 4. There were only a couple of other families on the estate at that time (1951). My 4 brothers and sisters were all born on the estate and we all attended Cefn junior school. Most children in Trevor went to Dinas Bran school but for some reason we all went to Ruabon Grammar. Although I no longer have any relatives in Trevor I try to get back once a year to wander along the canal, cross the aqueduct, down to the river in Bont and up to the Panorama. As an adult you don't light fires, steal apples or ride your bike through the woods but it's pleasant to recall such mad childhood activities. I'm pleased to see the old Scout Hut is still standing and hope today's scouts get as much out of the organisation as I did. It was good to recognise a number of names mentioned by the various correspondents. It would be interesting to make contact and reminisce.
Wed Jun 17 07:49:58 2009

Isobel Jones
My father John Richards, now 85, is the last surviving brother of the Richards Bros who owned the garage in Trevor. His Taid, George Richards, was a successful engineer who travelled the world building steel works, including Margam in South Wales, thus Margam Cottage next to the garage. There is a plaque on the Eagles pub, Acrefair, naming W and E Richards. The E was Elizabeth, OKA Betsan. Acrefair bridge was known as Pont Betsan. My late mother Heather was from the Dukes family who lived in Trevor schoolrooms. Mum was organist at Trevor church for 50 years. Her mother Hylda ran the village Sunday school, also drama and dance classes for local children, and I remember the shows we used to put on at the schoolrooms, costumes made by Gran. She was widowed at 42 and then lost her son Deryn aged 21 in an accident at Air Products. I myself attended Garth School when John Morgan was headteacher; he taught us to write with an italic pen and took us out to sketch Valle Crucis Abbey.I moved to Dinas Bran School in 1965. Dad lives in Trefnant and has just finished restoring a Triumph TR4A; he will be driving it to me here in Helsby this week!
Fri May 1 07:48:49 2009

Leonard Salisbury Acrefair
Chris Madsen, If you go up Tower Hill(where I was born) you might stumble on the Tower on your left hand side near Garth but it is in the wood along a drive.
Thu Apr 30 08:25:58 2009

Chistine Madsen
My son, my dog Iolo and I went to see Trevor Church today, what a lovely place, so peaceful, the grounds are lovely, I could have pitched camp there, it was a little holy place. We walked through Trevor Hall woods to the panorama and back down to Garth. What I would like to know is where is or where was the Tower as in Tower Hill Trevor?
Mon Apr 27 09:09:59 2009

Joanna Lloyd from Cheshire
I accidentally came across this site when googling 'Vrondeg'. I'm doing some research into my husband's family and have found that his grandfather's place of birth is given as Llanllan and his grandmother and her children are down as having been born in Vrondeg - neither of which I can trace. However, I do know they were all from the Wrexham/Ruabon area and lived as a family in Rhos. Before I ever met my husband, I lived for a while in Ponciau and worked for Rowlands the pharmaceutical wholesaler in Wrexham so I was familiar with the area but that was 30 years ago! Any help would be appreciated.
Tue Apr 7 09:36:49 2009

Leonard Salisbury, Acrefair
Has anybody got any information on Trevor Church Institute as to why it is also called Trevor Church School? I personally have never seen it being used as a school but only as a place to have events such as whist drives and dances.
Tue Mar 31 08:07:03 2009

Nick Jones, Cambs
I lived in Trevor during the '60s with my gran Alice Jones and grandfarther Gilbert, my mum Barbra, uncle Terry and aunties Kay, Margaret and Betty at no32 Charles Avenue. What happy time they were. Lived next door to the Dodds and Winrows, helped a postman called Geoff when I was about 5/6 yr old. Terry worked at Richards garage at the top of the hill on Llangollen road. Many friends still around the area.
Fri Feb 27 08:20:46 2009

Leonard Salisbury, Acrefair
Can anyone throw a light on the football team that played on the field next to the church institute? Was it named Trevor and Garth United FC or Garth and Trevor FC? It comes to light that they played on several fields in the area.
Tue Jan 27 09:07:14 2009

Heather (Wrexham)
Marilyn (Dukinfield). Best wishes for the New Year. It makes you think where time has gone. I bet none of the teenagers today would have a clue as to who Pat Boone was. Billy Fury was my favourite. I have still got his singles although I haven't played them for a long while. Do you still have any old records?
Mon Jan 5 15:38:54 2009

Marilyn (Dukinfield)
To Heather (Wrexham). Hope you had a nice Christmas, Heather. Long ago we enjoyed listening to Pat Boone records, do you remember? We both had perms in our hair (popular then) and wore gymslips and navy knickers at school. Yuk! Do you remember Mr Parry whom we called Boy Boy because he said it often if a boy misbehaved. Poor Mr Hughes whom we all teased and once made our own orchestra from paper covered combs, hair grips pushed under the desk lid which made a boing sound and of course the loose central heating pipe which clanked. Mr Hughes played his piano and we set off our own music. He used to get up and yell, "stop that infernal racket!". Poor man. Ours was innocent fun though. Not like today. Children now have had very little childhood. So sad. Happy New Year!
Wed Dec 31 09:35:43 2008

Emily Sivyer, Bristol
Child's Play. Do you remember the outdoor games you played as a child?If you have vivid and interesting stories to tell - from playground adventures, to imaginary worlds, to fun and games in the streets and fields - we want to hear them!Testimony Films (makers of Pocketful of Posies – BBC2 and Green and Pleasant Land – Channel 4) are making a BBC documentary history on how children's outdoor play has changed, based on people's memories.
We're interested in child's play in Britain from the early years of the 20th century right up to the 1970s and 80s. Which was the decade of your childhood and what were the most popular outdoor games of your era?
In the past children often had more freedom to take risks and play away from the watchful eyes of parents which could be liberating - but it could sometimes result in danger or disaster. Did you do things as a child which you were lucky to get away with?
Children's play could also be cruel. Were you bullied as a child, or were you the bully!?
If you have a child’s play story to tell, then please write, phone, or e-mail me - Emily Sivyer, Testimony Films 12 Great George St, Bristol BS1 5RH. Tel: 0117 925 8589. Email: emily.sivyer@testimonyfilms.com
Wed Nov 26 10:29:46 2008

Jean Roberts nee Lambert
To Trevor, Trefnant. How are you? I was very interested in your account of living in Woodbank. Are you going to add any photographs to the site?
Thu Nov 13 08:59:12 2008

Isobel Turner
I lived on the Garth during the 60s and 70s with my brother Chris and sister Yvonne. My dad was known as Charlie - who used to like visiting the Australia Arms and the Rockmans Arms (owned and run by Mrs Jones, later handed over to Mr Sach and Mrs Norma Duggan). My father's friends included Bob Bailiff, Tommy Hulse, Norman Churchward and "Maca" who also lived on the Garth. Maca had a huge white husky dog named Jason, who I adored. I believed Maca had a son named Vincent. I went to Garth School, the head master was John Morgan later was replaced by Mr Bellis. I have very good memories of Mrs Hughes (teacher with very long hair) and Mrs Roberts who we all cuddled in the play ground during dinner time (Mrs Roberts had a daughter called Jackie, who moved to Plas Madoc, I think) there were also two lovely dinner ladies, Mrs Goodwin and Mrs Ellis, who took pride in their cooking skills. My best friends were Gillian Powell, Catherine Jones and Julie Jones. Other school friends included Wendy Matthews, Angela Morris, Paul Edwards, Robert Hulse, Susan and Elaine Churchward, and Jackie Snape who all lived in Trevor. The Hulse family also lived in the Tower, on Tower Hill for a while. I lived in a semi cottage "Bryn Teg" by Mrs Parry cottage, which are situated near Garth Post office. I remember Mr and Mrs Hughes who ran the post office, until they handed over the post office to Norma Duggan, due to Mr Hughes' ill health - I think they ran another shop in Cefn for a short time. Other people from the Garth that I remember are Alan and Melvin the two sons of Garth School care taker, Kevin and Mark Williams, Jeff "the post", who had a brother called Eric, Mrs Powell who sold her house (later provided the ground for the bungalows by Garth School) Mrs Jackson, who would walk The Garth late into the night collecting fire wood. Later her house would provide the ground for a couple of houses opp Bronwin Roberts' farm. One of the houses became home to Miss Rowlands, the deputy headmarster in Ysgol Dinas Bran. Crad "the Garth" was well known to all of the local community, stopping cars with the view to giving the often unsuspecting occupants the tour of all of the local sights in the area. I remember the milkman with long hair who lived in the cottage by the chapel near Garth School. Also Mrs Mary Blake (Ken Blake's mother - farmer on Garth) who lived in a cottage opp Garth School. My uncle Leo and Auntie Marrie lived next door to Brenda Williams and her farmer husband, who was the son of Egor Williams, and their children Russel and Dawn. I left the Garth around 1978 after finishing Ysgol Dinas Bran. I would love to hear from anyone who knew me.
Tue Oct 7 10:17:55 2008

Len Salisbury Acrefair
To all readers of this site the train crash at Sun Bank was in the early hours of Friday 7 September 1945 not Thursday as in a previous posting.
Mon Aug 18 11:36:35 2008

Leonard Salisbury Acrefair
To Trevor Parry, Trefnant, nice to see that you are still alive and kicking. Have a look at the Druids Football Club site and you will see a picture with your mam and dad in the picture which I took back in 1957. My daughter used to go to boarding school at Galltfaenan Hall in the early '70s.
The Sun Bank train crash was in the early hours of Thursday morning 6th September 1945. The train was travelling in the early hours of Monday morning and by lunchtime I heard of the crash and, with Gwyn Gethin Jones, we cycled to the crash during our lunch break from school at Acrefair.
Tue Aug 12 08:36:01 2008

Trevor Parry, Trefnant, St Asaph
I was born in Woodbank, Bont, and we lived there with my grandmother until I was about 4 or 5. We then moved to Harrison Row, Garth, then to Brooklea, Acrefair (opposite the chapel which is now Border Beds). From there we moved back to Trevor to Rhosycoed Farm which was divided into two - Mrs Ada Archer and Mrs Elinor Archer lived next door in the other half. I spent a wonderful childhood there, playing in the fields and wood (the Rhosycoed houses had not then been built). We were eventually rehoused at George Avenue when the estate was built. I went to Garth school. Miss Powell, the teacher, used to walk from Fron and collect children, including myself, along the way to make sure we arrived safely. The headmaster was Mr Eddie Jones. I well remember 'Crad the Garth' sitting on the seat under the big oak tree at the bottom of the school hill, with his penknife, making whistles out of sycamore sticks ( a skill he taught me and one I have never forgotten to this day). When I passed the scholarship, I went on to Llangollen County School (subsequently Grammar and now Dinas Bran High). I travelled on the train from Trevor Station. Of course, when the train crashed through the embankment in 1946, we had to resort to travelling on the bus or by bicycle. Friends at that time were Deryn Dukes, John and Margaret Goodwin, Edna Edwards, Ralph Moysen, Arthur Pumford, Arthur Hardy, Olive Bentley, Ken Blake, Geoff Roberts ('the Mill'), Roy and Harold Duggan, Brian Allshorn and many more. My closest friend was Deryn and we ! spent many happy times together right up to his death following an accident at Hughes & Lancasters (Air products). It was a great blow to me and I was a bearer at his funeral. Does anyone remember Jack the Bont who ruled the canal tow[path with his leather belt? We used to swim by Stoney Wall and Plas yn Pentre Bridge and woe betide us if he caught us lighting fires on the bank, to roast our potatoes. Funnily enough one of his sons, Philip was also a friend. We used to play cricket on the Bont field with Berwyn Edwards, Roy Samuels and Gordon Nicol, amongst others. We got up to some very dangerous practices too, like walking on the outside of the aqueduct - for a dare - and jumping across the canal at both ends of the aqueduct. Our mothers would have had a fit had they known. Incidentally, Mamie Parry who had the little farm called Crow Farm, below the aqueduct, was my father's auntie. So Miriam from Manitoba must be related to me in some way! I have a feast of memories but maybe I ought to keep these for another time.
Fri Aug 8 14:50:03 2008

Howard Paddock of Acrefair
To Diana Davis from United States and David Larsson from Philadelphia. You ask about Richard Davies the son of David ap Edward whose widow, Kathryn Edwards, married John ap John about 1663. According to a Postnuptial Settlement dated 1682 Richard Davies, son of Kathryn Edwards, married Ann Barnes of Warrington in 1681. As you say, he was the sole inheritor of his mother's estate, Tyddyn yr Rhuddallt. However, it may be helpful to note that although she had a number of sisters, Kathryn was the sole inheritor of Tyddyn yr Rhuddallt. According to evidence contained in various Indentures, Settlements, Bonds and Agreements, Richard Davies lived at Tyddyn yr Rhuddallt. First he lived there with his mother and step-father (John ap John, the wandering Quaker preacher). Richard took possession of Tyddyn yr Rhuddallt when he came of age, circa 1681 and continued living there after his marriage. At this point John ap John and Kathryn removed to his Pen y Cefn Estate where they lived until Kathryn died. While living at Pen y Cefn their only daughter, Phoebe Jones, married John Mellor of Whitehough, Ipstones, Staffordshire. Incidentally, the marriage ceremony was held at Tyddyn yr Rhuddallt. Kathryn Edwards died circa 1693 and was buried at Tyddyn yr Rhuddallt John ap John died in 1697 and was buried at Basford Hall, Staffordshire. Pen y Cefn was sold to Sir Richard Myddleton of Chirk Castle for four hundred pounds. Under the terms of the mortgage, interest, to the sum of £12 per annum, was collected by Phoebe until the mortgage was redeemed circa 1714. According to an Indenture dated 1712, Edward Davies, elder son and heir apparent of Richard Davies, took possession of the Rhuddallt Estate. As you say, his younger brothers, John and David Davies, both emigrated Tyddyn yr Rhuddallt, which is also known as Rhuddallt Issa, was situated in Rhuddallt, a hamlet within the township of Ruabon. I have no knowledge of the estate of David ap Edward of Trevor. For further information please feel free to contact me direct.
Mon Jul 21 12:47:09 2008

Len Salisbury, Acrefair
To Gareth Roberts, the pub that you are referring to is still there - the Australia Arms where Crad used to hitch hike or to offer his services and take people on a Sunday morning up to the Panorama walk for a fee.
Mon Jul 21 09:02:49 2008

Gareth Roberts from Hertfordshire
Very interesting to read all the comments. Francis Roberts mentioned earlier in the thread was my great grandfather, born in 1852 in Ysbyty Ifan. I have happy childhood memories of every summer spent at Vrondeg, the house his son built at the top of Station Road; in particular, I can remember the steam trains thundering into the station. I also remember Crad or Craddock, often trying to hitch a lift (I presume to nowhere) from outside a pub in the village. It was on the right as you go into Llan but it's long gone now.
Fri Jul 18 08:53:40 2008

Chris Ladkin (nee Cowsill)
Remember going to dances in the little hall in Trevor, usually with Llan youth club. Good times were had by all especially if we "got off" with whoever we fancied at the time. Does anybody else remeber my cousins Graham and Jean Cowsill?
Fri Jul 4 08:00:08 2008

S Stephens, Toronto, Canada
To David Larsson, Philadelphia.You obviously have dealt into the early Welsh history of Philadelphia. Just to let you know, I have just finished reading "Fair Wilderness", by Marion Eames, about the Quakers , especially the Welsh Quakers settling near Phili--PenMawr, Chester, Berwyn etc in the late 17th century,under the guidance of William Penn. You may be intersted in this book and also "The Secret Room" by the same author, about the treatment of the Quakers in N. Wales, and other places. It is said that Rowland Ellis, nr Dolgellau lead the first group of Welsh Quakers to the New Land (the book differs somewhat in regard to this info).In Scranton and Wilkes-Barre about 5000 Welsh miner families settled starting in the 1850s. Not too many yrs ago the descendants accounted for abot 20000 of the population of tha area. Another group of Welsh settlers tried to settle in Nanty Glo (originally Nant y Glo) and Ebensburg, North of Johnstown, PA. This experiment was not successful. Regards, SS.
Mon Jun 2 09:25:02 2008

Wil, Wrexham.
Spent much of my youth in the company of a young lady from Cefn. Vivid recollection of a very moving baptismal ceremony in the river on Llan side of the Dee bridge at Trevor. Not much hope of a repeat? Also, did J.C. Edwards create the hearth in the Bryn Howell bar which carries the first line of our National Anthem?
Tue May 27 09:05:24 2008

Jackie Snape (nee Duckett)
Although not from Trevor, I have family connections with the village. My uncle Arthur and auntie Joan used to run the Garth Post Office, where I occasionally helped out in the school holidays. I used to catch the bus from Johnstown to Cefn and my uncle would pick me up by the bakers, and we'd travel to the post office. I remember Crad the Garth jumping out in front of my uncle's car near the Australia Arms on several occasions and when he came in the post office I was sent in to the back. I don't think uncle Arthur liked him much! Another uncle, Tegwyn Hughes, used to live in Wenfryn Close, off Station Road, until he sadly passed away. My aunty Mary (I think she was known as Mary the post) still lived there until her death last year. We used to visit when I was a small child and walk down to the aqueduct.
Mon Apr 28 08:30:51 2008

Kelly, Cheshire
To Leonard Salisbury. My great aunt Annie Bentley (2 Greenfields Trevor) used to tell us she worked making small shells and bullets. It was somewhere at the rear of the old Richards Bros garage in Trevor during the First World War. Sorry about the brain teaser about Telford United, it was a very few very young lads who lived in or around the avenue who used to play Charles Rovers the Typhoons from tower hill in the early days of Rhos-y-coed.
Mon Apr 21 08:44:30 2008

Leonard Salisbury
I have recently heard that there was a bomb making building in Trevor and had it confirmed by another person. I know the building that has been mentioned and have seen the gantry that was used in the transportation of the bombs/munitions. This information came out of the blue but which war was it involved with?
Wed Apr 16 13:36:59 2008

Andrew Allshorn, Holywell
To Margaret from Cheshire. Thanks for the information. Now I know where my middle name of "Milward" comes from. My father told me that one of the letter "ls" was missed off a birth certificate. Since then all of our 1st born sons have the middle name of Milward. Thanks for your help.
Wed Apr 2 10:01:03 2008

Angela, Trevor
I've just been reading the comments. Oaklands is still going, it's a B and B now. My sisters and I went to Garth school and yes the phone box is still there. I live next to the old post office now a house but I knew Bob Bailiff and his family. The shop is still here. I also remember the clinker and swing in Trevor Wood, sadly no more. Oh for our lost childhood. I would love to turn back the clock. No youth clubs, nothing for the children to do except walk the streets getting into trouble, whats gone wrong? We made our own games: hopscotch, footie, the summer fetes, sadly only memories.
Thu Mar 27 09:32:07 2008

Len Salisbury, Acrefair
To Miriam Jones, Manitoba, Canada, maybe Dai Hart can verify talk about John Archer being able to knock a cricket ball over the Aqueduct. How true this was I do not know. I also remember Ernie Archer in Cefn School, he used to put the fear of God in us.
Wed Mar 26 13:15:58 2008

Miriam Jones, Manitoba .Canada
For David Hart Acrefair/Cefn. Delighted to see your response and your memories of the Archers. So very interesting for me as I have only two living relatives who don't remember things as well as they used to. I was probably 7 years old when we went to Cefn to hear Uncle John sing in the operetta "Pirates of Penzance", and thought he also sang with the Rhos Choir? We did know of him being a keen cricketer. Uncle Ernest was very interested in church organs, went around to many churches to play the organs. Our family moved from Llangollen to Whitford, Flintshire, and remember Ernest going to Whitford Chuch to play the organ there. Family stories of "Mame Bont" that she grazed her two cows along the banks of the canal. Your memories are amazing and a real treasure for me. Regards Miriam.
Tue Mar 25 10:10:27 2008

Margaret from Cheshire
To Andrew Allshorn. The husband of Mrs Allshorn who was the godmother of Christine Dukes was Millward, they had a son named Brian he was killed in a motorcycle acccident. He was married to Margaret, I can't remember her surname, she came from Tower Hill. This may help you.
Tue Mar 25 09:37:19 2008

Andrew Allshorn
Christine Dukes: my grandfather (Percy Allshorn who had 2 sisters Emily and Margaret) came from Trevor but he never really talked much to us about the family history when he was alive. I think that Mrs Allshorn that was Christine Dukes godmother was my great grandmother. I would love to know more about them if anyone can help.
Thu Mar 20 08:59:37 2008

David Hart. Acrefair/Cefn
To Miriam Jones, Manitoba, Canada. I have just read your piece about the Archer family, and it brought back childhood memories for me. As a young child I lived in Lower Cefn, near the fields belonging to the farm. I can remember going there with my elder brothers, to get buttermilk in a tin can, and watching the cows being milked. I have an idea that the man doing the milking was called Wilfred. One of the farm fields was used to grow potatoes, and local people would pay a fee for one row. My father was one of these and we would help to gather the "spuds", and carry them home to Mill Lane. Ernest Archer was a teacher of mine in the old Cefn Mawr Council School. He left during the war to return to the farm and, if I remember rightly, he was presented with a shot gun by the staff and pupils. Many years later he worked at Monsanto as a Clerical worker. I also knew his brother John who worked at Monsanto. He was a good cricketer and played for Monsanto. You mentioned Aunty Mame who lived by the Aqueduct. This must have been the lady I remember living just below the first arch of the bridge, at the Trevor end. My image is of a fairly tall lady, dressed in black who, I think, ran a small holding. Bearing in mind that this was 70 years ago, it is a bit "hazy". Regards, David.
Wed Mar 19 09:39:58 2008

Marilyn Jansen (nee Jones), Dukinfield
Hello Angela Hulse, nice to see your little piece. I am in touch with Jac quite often these days and have recently spoken to Gill. I often think of you and how you are feeling, as if I could know or understand. Nevertheless, you know I am your cousin and send my love. Marilyn.
Mon Mar 10 09:27:41 2008

Jackie Harness [nee Berry]
For Pamela Lloyd-Jones: I remember that swing in the woods all too well. I fell from it resulting in a fracture at the base of my skull and a short stay in hospital. Someone ran and told my Mum that I was dead, she was putting a sheet through the mangle at the time, that sheet has never been seen since!
Does anyone remember the 'tin sheeting storage bunker' by the aqueduct by the canal? We called it 'the old man' for some reason. We used to congregate there in the summer and I remember 'the clinker' by the first white bridge along the canal very well! Often wondered what it was and how it got there!
Thu Mar 6 13:28:28 2008

Angela Hulse, Trevor
Hi, my family have lived in Heol Penderyst, Trevor, since 1953 and my parents still live in the same house. I live on Llangollen Road and attended Garth CP School up until 1964 and Dinas Bran til 1968. My sisters were Gillian Jackie Berry, my name is Angela Hulse nee Berry.
Wed Mar 5 10:47:40 2008

Marilyn Jansen (nee) Jones, Dukinfield, Cheshire
Hi again Heather, nice to read your little input about old times. Yes I remember the washing up incident well. Happy days those. Glad you have a daughter and two grandchildren, they are such a gift. I always remember going to Rhyl with you and your mum and dad in their car. How amusing your dad was. I thoroughly enjoyed myself that day and that is why I've remembered it. Do you remember our obsession with Pat Boone? I do hope you are keeping well dear girl. So nice to read about you. I was hoping you would reply to my little ditty. Maybe we should email each other. There must be some way we can exchange addresses. Bye for now and take care. Your long ago friend, Marilyn.
Mon Mar 3 08:11:22 2008

Miriam Jones, Manitoba,Canada
Just discovered your site. Wonder if anyone from Trevor remember the Archers, Ernest, Hilda and daughter Joan, also John Archer. Auntie Ada Archerlived in Rhosycoed cottage with my Aunt Elinor, that was many years ago in the early 1940s. I visited them when I was very young. My family lived in Llangollen at that time. Also had an Aunt Mame, who lived at one end of the bridge,(my mother's sister), which end I don't know! The Archers lived in Bridge End Farm. Ejoyed this site very much, great stories.
Fri Jan 25 08:44:02 2008

Heather, Wrexham
Marilyn Jansen (Jones). You have brought back many memories some that I had forgotten. I am married and have a daughter and two grandchildren. I am retired now. Are you still working? I do remember Pat and Margaret especially when Margaret nearly gassed herself in Mr Roberts Science Lab. Do you remember the incident when we put too much washing up liquid in the sink in the Cookery Room and ended up mopping the floor as well as washing the pots. I have looked up other sites and have noticed your input - it's nice to put a face to a name.
Wed Jan 23 08:14:08 2008

Carol Turner (nee Powell), Acrefair
To Alan Salisbury, regarding Percy and Claude Holt. They were my Grandmother's brothers, if you have any more information about the family and their parents, I would love to hear from you. They were called the Holloways of Queen Square, Rhosymedre.
Mon Jan 21 09:36:06 2008

Dave Hanson - Canada
For Alun Salisbury. Many thanks. Will contact you ASAP after receipt of your details.
Mon Jan 21 08:34:57 2008

Carol Turner, Acrefair
Chris Madsen, Percy and Claude Holt were my great uncles. They were my grandmother's brothers. Her name was Violet, she passed away 32 years ago. Please if you have any information about the Holt family could you foward it on. Also, if you have any info about the Holloways from Rhosymedre who were my great grandparents I would love to hear from you.
Mon Jan 21 08:25:00 2008

Marilyn Jansen (nee Jones) Dukinfield, Cheshire
Heather from Wrexham, Hi. Yes, we were at one time best friends. We even went to college together on a Commercial course. Well you may or may not know that after working in an office my life took a different turn when I joined the Police. They moved me to the Manchester area. I live in a small town now. I have two children and three grand-children, my husband and I have been married 40 years in March. Do you remember the time when we, as prefects in Acrefair school, were reading in our class during break and Pat and Margaret were fooling around, Margaret was sitting on Pat's shoulders. No guesses for what happened next, except to say we were all sick with laughter. Wonder what happened to Mr Parry, he was such good teacher. What about poor Mr Hughes, we teased him so much poor man. Remember Mr Roberts the science teacher. One day there was a loud bang. An explosion in the lab. Mr Roberts came out with a black face and his glasses hanging off one ear. Hope you are well Heather. Give me some news.
Fri Jan 18 07:36:21 2008

Alun Salisbury, Cardiff formerly Cefn Mawr
Dave Hanson, Canada - I have asked the web team to forward my contact details to you.
Wed Jan 16 16:28:55 2008

Dave Hanson, Canada
For Alun Salisbury. Alun - do you ever hear from Viner? Hopefully he is well. If you wish to contact me with your email address etc, I believe the webmaster on this site will pass on details. I did see Viner's posting, and attempted to contact him via the webmaster, but they tell me the address they have for him bounced (not available).
Fri Jan 11 09:46:33 2008

Raymond Jones, Penycae
I was born in Bryn Awel Garth (near the war memorial) in 1928. My father worked for Francis Roberts. I attended Garth School then Acrefair Central then Denbigh Technical College and served in the RAF from 1946 to 1970. My sister, Flo, is the only other survivor of my family and still lives in Manchester. It is great to read of the lovely villages of Garth and Trevor where so many lovely people lived I still meet many of them now and especially on remembrance Sunday. My best wishes to you all.
Wed Jan 9 10:30:20 2008

Alun Salisbury Cardiff formerly Cefn Mawr
To Dave Hanson – Viner Mates is a second cousin to me. He placed the following post on the Cefn Mawr page under Cefn Chronicle back in April 2006.
Vyner Mates, Marple, Stockport.What memories. My grandparents were John & Catherine Hughes. I used to come up to Cefn from Whitehust in the very late 40s to go to school in Cefn on the bus, met by my nain. John worked as a stoker/boilerman at Monsanto.
Tue Apr 18 09:18:21 2006
Mon Jan 7 16:33:38 2008

Dave Hanson
Brought up "Up the Garth" just up the hill from the phone box (is it still there?). Played many times in the King William's Tower woods - made our own bows and arrows - still alive to tell the tale LOL. Was in contact briefly with Ernie Wood's son Jim now living in Llandudno. I remember some kids' names from Garth, Christine Dukes (Hi) Rhiannon Owen, Leslie and Peter Budd, Ann Roberts, Gwynfor Davies and Gareth Williams. The mention of Crad the Garth really did bring back some memories - quite a character. Going to Llan Grammar on the train was an adventure. When the line closed we went on the bus - BORING The smell of a green grocer shop always brings to mind Freddie Buttertons's store in Cefn. Another smell that will never be forgotten is waiting for the Garth bus on The Crane in Cefn with tears streaming down your face with the stuff coming out of Monsanto's. I often wonder what happened to my old school mates, Viner Mates, Barry and Benny Jones from Chirk, John (Beano) Green from Fron. Good mates and good times.
Mon Jan 7 11:48:03 2008

Ellis of Wrexham
Debbie Foulkes (Trevor). Hello Debbie. Yes I believe Ann used to ride her horse and buggy through Cefn and everybody moved out of the way. She was actually married to a John Lloyd before your great grandfather but he died when he was only 37. Everbody who knew Ann (I didn't) said that she had a heart of gold.
Mon Jan 7 10:46:18 2008

Heather from Wrexham
To Chris Madsen (Jones). I was friends with Marilyn Jones whilst at school. I wouldn't like to say how many years ago it was when I last saw her. I do hope she is okay.
Tue Dec 18 10:46:24 2007

Peter Brew, St Day, Cornwall
I have to apologise to Fuzz for the delay in replying - I haven't checked the site until today. How wonderful to hear from you, Raymond. We visit the Chain Bridge at Llan sometimes, and I have asked people in Trevor if they know you - drawn a blank up til now - you must be keeping a low profile! Poor old Mike Daniels passed away - he was one of our lot. Old phrases come back like "Walter Jones I shall have to clack you" and "If I come there you'll be hopping and yelling!" Wonderful days. I will certainly call and see you when we come up to Llan again for a chat about old times. In the meantime, my email address is with the webteam. Take care old friend, all the best, Brewus.
Tue Dec 18 08:40:20 2007

Chris Madsen (Jones) Plas Isaf
For Heather from Wrexham, were you Heather Davies that knew my sister Marilyn ?
Mon Dec 17 08:16:09 2007

Chris Madsen (Jones), Plas Isaf
Thank you Len, I will go in search of the folly with my son and my dear border terrier on his lead, mind you, as he chases anything that moves. We live in such a lovely area and I like to go walking as much as my hip will allow. I have been told there is a nice walk in Trevor opposite Station Rd, the Llangollen Rd end, which I will look for one day too.
Thu Nov 15 13:50:57 2007

Len Salisbury, Acrefair
Chris Madsen Whalley's Folly is still in the Garth, but is sometimes known as King? William's Tower and could be seen from the road as one used to walk from Blackwood down to Garth on the left hand side. There are tales of an arrow being seen in a tree. Folklore! I think that this guy used to live in Plas Madoc Hall and more than likely that is why Whalley's Way came about.
Tue Nov 6 13:38:07 2007

Len Salisbury, Acrefair
To Chris Madsen (Jones). I took a picture which is on this site of the folly. This is picture 5. It is sometimes known as King William Tower and it could be seen many years ago before the trees grew, on your way down from Black Wood, from the road. Same guy I believe.
Mon Nov 5 13:06:33 2007

Chris Madsen (Jones), Plas Isaf
Our Ange are you out there? Think of you all daily. Pass your house sometimes with my Stephen but don't like to stop. Trefor is changing, new houses sprouting up everywhere. Happy days when we used to visit your mam on a Sunday afternoon and I would delve into the top drawer of her sideboard looking at her ear rings etc, oh to be that child again!
Mon Nov 5 10:16:56 2007

Chris Madsen (Jones), Plas Isaf
Is Whalley's Folly still up the Garth? Who was Whalley? Is Whalley's Way in Plas Madoc named after him?
Mon Nov 5 10:00:47 2007

Debbie Foulkes (nee Roberts), Trevor
Ellis of Wrexham. The Hilda you refer to is my grandmother who lived in Trevor Mill with her husband Jack and my dad, Jeffrey. I understand she was well known at the time for her feisty nature and her prowess with a horse and trap! They lived there until the council estate was built in Trevor, where my dad still resides.
Fri Nov 2 10:22:39 2007

Raymond Jones (Fuzz), Acrefair
To Peter Brew, St Day, Cornwall. Good to see that you have found this site. The steam train station has re-opened in Llangollen and trains run nearly to Corwen (about 10 miles). I still see Shelagh Evans, Glenys Roberts, Dorothy James (Corbett) and Matthew from Pentredwr. Mike Wareham is a harbour-master somewhere down your end of the country. Scotch Hall (where we used to pinch apples!) by the canal in Trevor is now a thriving pub-cum-restaurant called "The Telford" - would love to meet you there when next you re-visit.
Mon Oct 29 08:28:06 2007

Leonard Salisbury, Acrefair
To Theo & Joanne Roberts, have you seen the Trevor Childhood recently, as there are eight pictures of the area. Your last input was last January when you mentioned that there were no pictures of Trevor compared to Acrefair and Cefn.
Wed Oct 24 08:44:46 2007

Len Salisbury, Acrefair
To Kelly Cheshire, have you got the name correct as the only team that I can remember playing at Trevor was Trevor and Garth United and they played on the field next to the Church Institute? This was just after the war. I did bring this subject up in an earlier posting and if there were any pictures of the team floating around.
Mon Oct 22 08:44:19 2007

Russell Owen, Acrefair
I have lived in Tower Hill for many years and never seen photos of Tower Hill as it was pre 1960. Has anyone got any pictures of Tower Hill pre '60s?
Mon Oct 22 08:34:47 2007

Kelly Cheshire.
Can anyone remember Telford United F.C. top team in Trevor?
Wed Oct 17 14:21:18 2007

Alun Salisbury Cardiff formerly Cefn Mawr
Chris Madsen nee Jones, Plas Isaf - You are correct, his name was Percy Holt. Thank you.
Mon Sep 24 09:54:34 2007

Chris Madsen nee Jones, Plas Isaf
For Alun Salisbury, the Mr Holt you used to live by on Rock Road was Mr Percy Holt. He had a brother, Claude, who also lived in Rhosymedre. My aunt Vera Jones and my uncle Reg with sons Raymond and David and sister Pamela also lived next door to Mr Percy Holt.
Tue Sep 18 08:45:12 2007

Christine Dukes
My parents Albert and Hilda were the caretakers of Trevor Church School Hall and we lived at School House until 1951 when we had to leave as my father died in December 1950 and the family could not stay there as it was a 'tied' and my father had been the tenant. We - i.e. my mother, my brother Deryn and myself - moved to Garth Road. My mother was a Sunday school teacher along with my godmother Mrs Allshorn and, like a previous correspondent, I attended the dances at school house.
Thu Sep 6 13:02:48 2007

Margaret from Cheshire
Is there anyone still living in Trevor who remembers Mr Elkes in the corner shop, also Mrs Jones, The Post? Later Mr Bailiff owned the grocery shop where his daughters, Glenys and Maureen, worked. I also remember the brickworks working and the railway engine crossing the road going to Trevor station.
Thu Sep 6 10:13:51 2007

Dave Short, Llangollen
Looking for photos of Ruabon, Acrefair, Trevor Stations and Sun Bank Halt and any sights along the line. Can anyone help?
Fri Aug 24 16:41:46 2007

Ken Williams, Ruabon
There were a few places in Trevor where the youth of the village could meet. My first memory is of Trevor School when the first Beatles records were being played and there was a club in Bryn Seion Chapel at the bottom of Station Road with everyone learning the words of My Old Man's a Dustman and listening to a crackly Radio Luxembourg. For a while there was a club run in the old J. C. Edwards Offices on Llangollen Road. On Saturday afternoons we used to watch The Druids play football on the field by the aqueduct and if we said a wrong word to Crad the Garth he would chase us around the pitch! You could hang around outside the shops on the estate, at the station or down by the canal docks. We often walked down to the river, climbed up the Garth or went tickling trout in The Nant stream. No time to be on the playstation in those days. Breakfast over, you would be out to find friends and something to do. We made camps in the woods, played football, watched the trains go by...and the girls, built bonfires, went bob a jobbing, made our own bikes out of scrap found on local tips. Helped ourselves to apples in local gardens and generally had a great time.
Thu Aug 23 10:53:22 2007

Margaret from Cheshire
I remember Trevor station, I travelled to school on the train. I also went to the station every evening to meet the 5.30 train to collect the newspapers for Mr Elkes who had the corner shop in Trevor. We also went to the Pump woods near Trevor Hall to pick snowdrops, sometimes with permission! We picked blackberries on the banks of the canal towpath and, heaven forbid, picked primroses on the railway embankment near Bryn Howell even when trains were passing. I am sure our parents did not know where their lovely flowers came from.
Tue Aug 21 10:25:32 2007

Peter Brew, St Day, Cornwall.
My family was the first to live at 4, Charles Avenue, Trevor, when the estate was built. I used to go on the train to Llangollen from Trevor Station, or you could cycle to school along the canal, or the A5, or the other road through Trevor - not much traffic in those days! Some of my fellow pupils were: Raymond Jones (Fuzz), William Hosier, Michael Wareham, Shelagh Evans, Eileen Martin, Glenys Roberts, and several others whose names escape me.(But I'll probably remember them in 20 minutes!) I also went to the 1st Trevor Scouts Hut, which they had just built on the estate, with Raymond Jones. The Scoutmaster was Mr Humphries, and I've just remembered, Margaret Humphries, his daughter was also a fellow pupil and traveller on the steam train. My sister, Vivienne, went to Garth School, and she lives near me here in Cornwall. We often re-visit the area, and have many happy memories of a childhood growing up in Trevor. Peter Brew, St Day, Cornwall.
Fri Aug 17 14:10:18 2007

Len Salisbury, Acrefair
It appears that there are very few computers in the Trefor district as the input is dismal on this site. What about Trevor station in its heyday with traffic either going to Llangollen and on to Bala/Barmouth or to Rhyl via Corwen/Ruthin. Trains also went to the local brickworks at Trefynant or to Monsanto/Hughes and Lancaster and beyond.
Fri Aug 10 17:11:15 2007

Alun Salisbury, Cardiff formerly Cefn Mawr
Robert Holt - Please contact me and I'll let you know the details of your great grandfather that I promised.
Tue Aug 7 15:12:26 2007

Robert Holt
Alun Salisbury - that may have been my great grandfather. My father's name is Thomas but is known as Andy and my grandfather's name was Thomas also but was known as Tom, unfortunately I don't know any more about my father's side of the family but perhaps you knew my mother's side - the Isaacs.
Mon Jul 30 16:01:38 2007

Alun Salisbury Cardiff formerly Cefn Mawr
Robert Holt - I used to live next door to a Mr Holt in Rock Road, Rhosymedre. Is there a family connection? If so I have an interesting tale to tell. Mr Holt was a Great War, 1914-18 veteran.
Mon Jul 30 08:49:52 2007

Robert Holt from Cardiff
I spent the first 18 years of my life living in Trevor on Station Road which is literally up the road from the aqueduct and my mother still resides there. I remember passing the mill to go fly fishing in the river which is located next to the mill and also participating in the local anglers club on the Plas-y-Pentre canal. Also my grandmother used to work in Trevor Hall located at the edge of the Garth woods. I also went to Garth primary school and then on to Llangollen Dinas Brân secondary school.
Tue Jul 24 15:46:24 2007

Len Salisbury, Acrefair
Has anybody got any more photos of Trevor or its residents?
Thu Jun 21 08:36:34 2007

Liz Smith, Cardiff
My grandmother was called Mary Gwendoline Roberts and in 1901 she was 3 yrs old, living with father David William Roberts and mother Catherine, in Holly Cottage, Trevor. She had sisters Eveline, Jane & Catherine and a brother Evan. David Roberts was a master draper and became an Alderman. In 1939 the family were living in Oaklands, Trevor. Do these places still exist in Trevor? Does anyone know anything about this family? My grandmother married Thomas Jenkins and they lived in Bridgend, South Wales.
Mon Apr 30 08:25:35 2007

David Larsson from Philadelphia
To Diana Davis, I, too, am interested in your Davies family of Trevor and Rhuddallt in Ruabon. I have gathered a fair amount of information about the Davies and about John ap John. The Historical Society of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia has primary sources regarding both John ap John and Richard Davies (e.g. Wm. Penn's deed to John ap John and Dr Thomas Wynne, with markings on the back indicating to whom John ap John conveyed his 1/2 share of what Wm. Penn conveyed to the two of them). I have also visited Wales twice in search of these folks. The ridge in Trevor is beautiful.
Wed Apr 25 08:38:03 2007

Ellis from Wrexham
Re The Mill Plas Yn Pentre Llangollen: My Great Grandmother lived at The Mill. Her name was Ann Lloyd, she was a widow her husband having been Arthur Lloyd. She had a daughter (my Grandmother) Elizabeth Ann and son Edwin. She married Dolben (spelling might not be correct) Jones and went to live at The Mill taking with her my Grandmother. Dolben and Ann had a daughter Hilda. I believe my Great Grandmother used to ride a horse and buggy and she was often seen on it in Cefn Mawr. Does anyone have any more information about her or her family?
Mon Apr 23 15:27:04 2007

Sue Jones, Trevor House
Helen, what a shame you did not call in, we would have loved to show you round and hear your stories about Trevor House. I have done quite a bit of research, but obviously have some gaps that need filling in so anything that you know would be greatly received. George Edwards (brother of J.C. Edwards, quite famous around these parts) built the house, 1860s I think, anyway he definitely lived there for 35 years till he died, he has the village hall in Cefn Mawr named after him. After that about 1920 the Morris's bought it, so there is a gap of about 15 years, they lived there for about 60 years till the late 1980s when it was in a bit of a state and bought by John Roberts who did it all up to how it is today. All the house deeds have been destroyed so I only think this is the history. I hope this is of interest to you, if you would like some photos you can always write to us.
Thu Apr 12 13:58:13 2007

Helen Moye (nee Ennis)
In response to Sue Jones' message (11 Dec 2006), and further to my own message of 29 Nov 2006, I actually visited Wales and Trevor late last year, for the first time, and was thrilled to find Trevor House, about which my father had spoken so often and so fondly. I did not have the time to call in, but would have loved to introduce myself to the Jones family who now live there. Instead, I ran excitedly around the boundary of the property in my bright red overcoat, tears in my eyes, trying to glimpse the house through the fence, and managed to offend and frighten the young family who live next door - for which I apologise. I would love to make contact with Sue, and share stories about the house and its history.
Tue Apr 10 09:47:53 2007

Sue Jones, Trevor House
Thanks for the information regarding the garden of Trevor House, I have an amazing aerial photo showing the garden in tip top condition, with the tidiest vegetable patch I have ever seen, have often wondered about the date it was taken, we thought it may be early 1970s.
Fri Mar 30 14:47:27 2007

Trevor Lloyd Jones
1928 my dad worked in the Llay main collery. My Mother so liked the name Trevor, and that is why she named her youngest (me) after the village. December 5th 1928. I now live along way from Wales; Southern California.
Mon Mar 26 09:03:26 2007

Ken Williams, Ruabon
I lived 3 doors away from Trevor Cottage. Ernie Wood the postmaster lived here. The post office was alongside the bus stop on the way out to Llan.
Trevor House.
I remember Mr Meredith who had been head gardener for Chirk Castle working at Trevor House in the 50's and 60's. He could grow anything and the garden was perfectly laid out. You would see him cycling from Pentre at a steady pace, just the way he hoed the weeds. He worked for Miss Morris and her brother Ernie who ran the amazing Morris's shop in Cefn. They sold everything, refusing to change to decimal money when introduced! The local boys loved to sample the fruits of the orchard and there was a filbert nut tree. Trevor station was a busy junction for goods in and out of Monsanto Chemicals and you could tell the time by the various trains that passed through from Ruabon to Barmouth. That was when trains ran on time!
Wed Mar 14 09:34:42 2007

Diana Davis from United States
I am interested in the history of Trevor and Trevor House. The emigrant ancestor of my father's line was John Davies, son of Richard Davies (ap David ap Edward of Trevor). Richard was the sole heir of David, circa 1664-6 and inherited "the estate" of Trevor. Richard also inherited Rhuddallt in Ruabon (now part of the Wynnstay Park) from his mother Catherine verch Edward, wife of 1) David ap Edward; 2) John ap John. I am interested in the history of these locals because I am trying to learn more about John Davies and his brother, David. They emigrated to Pennsylvania in 1713 and I would like to know what kind of skills, trades, education they might have brought with them to start their lives here. Any information would be appreciated. I read these posts with interest, gleaning much information about the landscape from them. I am trying to picture what life was like when John and David were living there and having an idea of the way the land lays and the relationships between places that are only names to me helps fill in the blanks.
Mon Mar 12 08:49:07 2007

Frank Jones from Auckland, New Zealand
The 'Welsh' in my family originated in Wrexham. My Grandmothers family name name Margaret Matthews and she was born 1877 in the parish of Broughton. and before moving to Manchester and marrying a Jones, she lived in Prices Lane, Wrexham. Nan Jones' siblings included sisters Alice, Kate, Sarah and brothers John, Edwar, George. Extended family names were Griffiths, Thomas, Bannion?? and many of the menfolk (possibly in excess of thirty) perished together at Gresford. Nan Jones' parents were Edward and Sarah Matthews. Some family members including the Thomas's lived in Prices Lane, Wrexham, where I spent many happy visits as a young child towards the end of WW2. Alma Thomas, now quite elderly, still lives in Prices Lane. I am trying to create a family history so any information will be a great value.
Fri Jan 19 08:13:36 2007

Margaret, Cheshire
Are there any oldies(!!!) left in Trevor?
Mon Jan 15 16:21:16 2007

Theo & Joanne Roberts, Trevor Cottage
Come on, have you seen the Fron and the Cefn web pages? There are loads of pictures and info, the Trevor page is empty, is there no one out there with any info. or pictures? It looks very sad.
Mon Jan 8 09:45:32 2007

Margaret from Cheshire
I lived in Trevor before the Rhosycoed estate was built, firstly in the cottages on Garth Road which were demolished, then moved to School House opposite the station. I left Trevor in 1956. I remember Crad. I am still very interested in what is going on in the area, and the people who may still be living there from the old!!! days.
Thu Jan 4 10:20:47 2007

Sue Jones, Trevor
I now live in Trevor House and have been researching its history so any information that anyone has would be gratefully received.
Mon Dec 11 13:52:38 2006

Len Salisbury, Acrefair
Has anyone got any pictures of Garth and Trevor United football team who played on the field next to the old Church Institute just after the war?
Tue Dec 5 13:33:54 2006

Mark Theo Roberts
I am looking for some old pictures or any info on Trevor cottage, the house on the top of Station Road Trevor, we are in the middle of trying to get it back to how it used to look before it was rendered any info or a copy of an old picture would be a great help.
Mon Dec 4 10:18:48 2006

Len Salisbury, Acrefair
I remember when Garth and Trevor United used to play football on the field next to the Church Institute and when they had a sports meeting and Crad the Garth used to participate in either the high jump or a track event. This would be in the region of 1946/47.
Mon Dec 4 10:16:36 2006

Helen Moye (nee Ennis) from Australia
As a young pilot officer in the RAAF during World War II, my father, Noel Ennis with his friend Bob Sykes, spent many of their free days in this area. Until his death 3 years ago, my father always spoke fondly of old Mr Morris, his daughter Sybil and graddaughter Audrey, who lived at Trevor House, Trevor, and welcomed him warmly into their home. Audrey, now a grandmother herself, continues to send Christmas cards to my parents. This small patch of Wales is still regarded very fondly by my family in Australia, and it is very much a part of our family history - because of the kindness, generosity and hospitality shown to two young men who were a long way from home during a long war.
Wed Nov 29 13:54:27 2006

Heather from Wrexham
I remember moving up to Trevor from Trevor Issa (bottom of Cefn) 54 years ago. I left a house that had an outside toilet and a tin bath but a lot of memories for a new house in Trevor together with a bathroom which consisted of a bath hand basin and toilet upstais and also a downstairs toilet. My Mum, Dad and I thought it was a palace compared to what we were used to. There were a lot of people moving in to the houses. I went to Cefn School and carried on going there like Pam who was in Fron School. Pam and I did not really get to know one another until we were in our teens. To go to school I went with friends and we either caught the bus in Trevor which came from Fron or walked. I remember there were a lot of children on the Estate and at that time when cars were scarce we were able to play hopscotch or cricket outside the houses. We used to play rounders on the green in front of the shops owned by Mr and Mrs Griffiths and Mrs and Mrs Vaughan. The other highlight was wearing roller skates and going down the hill from Heol Penderyst on them the only problem being not able to stop you either ended up with sore knees or flinging yourself on to the green which was less painful. The woods were also an area for children to play and I often wondered who put up the rope swing on one of the trees. I remember being in the Brownies and where we used to go tracking through the woods leaving twigs shaped in an arrow for the rest of the group to follow and try and find you. In the summer of the year we moved to Trevor and for a few years after that I would go with my father to the River Dee by Bont Bridge where he taught me to swim (or tried to drown me). There were always loads of children there swimming and enjoying themselves as the summers then seemed to be so hot. As I got older my friends and I used to go for a walk along Plas yn Pentre to the Canal (or crossing the fields and being chased by the cows) or a walk alongside the canal to Llangollen taking with us a picnic. Usually this was sandwiches, crisps, either water or "corona pop". When I was 14 there was the Youth Club I can remember that there was only four records that the Club had I think one of them was by the Four Seasons, I can't remember what the other three were. It's a pity that there are no Youth Clubs today where you can make friends, have somewhere to go and not get into too much trouble.
Tue Nov 21 14:24:34 2006

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