your comments
TOL, Bagillt
Re: ENQUIRY OWEN, PEVENSEY. Thank you for your response of the 16th Jan 09. Since that date, I have contacted a friend who has a great deal of knowledge on this subject, this knowledge is also backed by comprehensive records.It would appear that your brother's memory could in fact be correct as my friend's records indicate that on the 28/04/43 a Mustang AG502 from Hawarden of 41 OTU crashed at the location you mentioned. There is, however, nothing known about a Spitfire crash in that area. I hope this information goes some way in answering your query. We would however be most grateful to know if any further information became known regarding this matter.
Mon Jan 26 08:10:00 2009
Owen, Pevensey
Thanks, TOL and Robert. I'm sure the aircraft crashed in Nannerch, I remember seeing the roof of the village hall which the plane just touched. But my brother thinks it was a Mustang, not a Spitfire, and he remembers going on his bike to the site but not being allowed to get near as they had only just got the pilot out of the wreck. Does this help?
Fri Jan 16 09:34:50 2009
TOL, Bagillt
Re query from Owen Pevensey 30th Dec regarding Spitfire crash Nannerch.
Despite a search through my records, I am unable to find any reference to a Spitfire crashing at Nannerch during the period stated. There is, however, a reference for the 1st June 1941 which reads '0130hrs 600 IB in a field at Pengelli, Nannerch, 2mls NW of Rhydymwyn Poice Station.' You can well imagine the effect of 600 incendiary bombs and wondered that due to the passage of time was this the scene which you may have remembered.
Mon Jan 5 09:37:48 2009
Robert Frost
While I have no recollection of the Nannerch aircraft, I can well remember a German bomber crashing very close to Llyn Bran the North Wales Hospital reservoir on the Denbigh Moors. My father was then Clerk and Steward at the Hospital and had to visit the site with the chief engineer Glyn (Gwyn?) Pritchard to determine if any damage had been done to the water processing plant nearby. He brought back some pieces of the aircraft which I kept for many years.
Mon Jan 5 09:23:04 2009
Owen Visick from Pevensey, formerly Nannerch
Lots of interesting info about crashes. Does anyone have details of a Spitfire which crashed in Nannerch, probably in 1941 or 42, killing the pilot who stayed on board to avoid the village? I was 3 or 4 at the time, living at Sarn, and I remember seeing the flames and black smoke. It left me afraid of aircraft for some time after.
Tue Dec 30 09:42:32 2008
TOL Bagillt
Message for Lindsay, Preseli Aug 08.
Hi Lindsay, sorry about the belated response to your request of August 08 regarding the Plane crash at Presili Hills. The date of the crash, if known, would be helpful however, if you have the time, might I suggest that you try going into the Yahoo website and enter Plane crash Bagillt. On the first page, penultimate website, you should see a reference to ASN Aircraft Accident etc, you will also see a reference to the crash of a Blackburn Botha MK 1 at Bagillt, on that page you will again see a Union Jack and United Kindom, highlight the UK and this will bring up 54 pages dating between 1918 and 2008 which relate to aircraft crashes, hopefully you may find the information you seek on one of those pages, good luck. Terah Lloyd 11/10/08.
Mon Oct 13 09:00:58 2008
T.C. off Flint
The chemist was Mr Thomas. I used to deliver papers for Ronnie the paper shop. Passed through the High Street a few weeks ago, how it has all changed.
Thu Sep 11 09:04:31 2008
Paula Court (nee Hill) Ellesmere Port
I remember 'Florie the shop'... she would also sell you glass of pop. I don't think she washed the glasses between customers but I don't think we cared. I also remember 'Ronnie the shop' paper shop, 'John the Butcher', Llewlyn the greengrocer, D.Davies, Les Evans shoe shop. I cant for the life of me remember the chemists name tho ?
Fri Aug 22 08:00:21 2008
Lindsay, Preseli
Further to the request of Will Thomas: has anyone any knowledge of the war planes that crashed on the Preseli hills during WW2? I would also be grateful for any info. Have you found anything Will?
Sat Aug 16 15:14:11 2008
Moira Roberts from Tern Hill
My mother is Rose Jones, her maiden name was Williams, the family lived in Cefn Farm. They were related to the Hawkyards, they had the Kings Arms in Bagillt. Does anyone know what happen to Fred Hawkyard? He was in the RAF during the war.
Mon Aug 4 10:10:19 2008
Adam from Llandeilo
Can anyone tell me where I can find out more on the locations of plane crashes during World War II? Any books or websites would be helpful.
Fri Jul 25 12:53:04 2008
Glenys Humphreys, Bagillt.
It is lovely to find this site, it brings back so many memories (God I didn't think I was so old). Does anyone remember Auntie Florrie, in the sweet shop? She was a canny old lady, quite a character, we used to save our pennies, to buy a thruppenceworth of sweets, which was a lot of money then, a quarter pound of sweets, but Auntie Florrie used to put an ounce weight in the tray before she weighed the sweets, we knew, she knew we knew, but we were little, and we loved her to pieces anyway. Sometimes when we went into the shop and we didn't have any money, she would give us a few sweets anyway, so things equalled out in the end. The shop was very small, and Auntie Florrie would sit in her living room, the door which led into the shop always had a thick net curtain on it, which meant that she could see us, but we couldn't see her, and maybe Uncle Willie was there also, which used to scare us to death. He was the man who cut your hair off if you were naughty, once again those were the days!
I have seen a message from someone, who was asking about the Harp House. I lived there when I was first married in 1960, and somewhere I have a photograph of it, if you are interested I will try and locate it. By the way, the Harp House was quite haunted, quite a few strange things happened while we lived there.
Wed Apr 30 08:47:52 2008
TOL, Bagillt
Hi Glenys. It has now been quite some time since I looked at this page but am pleased that you enjoyed my stories.There was indeed a plane crash at the Gadlys also close to the Ferm Farm, the Bedol field where two aircraft crashed, Coleshill and of course the Henkil in the Dee. You are also correct with the comments about the cat at the Spencer Bread shop. Barbara, my wife, who was born at Compton Terrace and then lived at Talbot Terrace, was always told by my late mother in law to arrive at the shop before the cakes etc were placed in the window. Regards, Terah.
Wed Apr 9 17:10:24 2008
Glenys Humphreys
Does anyone out there remember Spencers Bread Shop, which was at the end of Compton Terrace? It always had a big furry cat sitting in the window of the shop, which my friend Cynthia Hooson, who lived in Compton Terrace, and myself used to think was there solely for the purpose of catching the mice, which ran around freely in the shop. The smell of mice as you entered the shop was overpowering, but we all survived all of this, and lived to tell the tale, those were the days.
Fri Mar 28 16:30:59 2008
Glenys Humphreys
I have just found this site, and it is brilliant. My mum and myself were living in White Horse Cottage when the plane crashed, I do not remember it, but my mum remembers it well, she said she thinks the engine of the plane is still buried under the duel carriageway. My mum also said there was another plane crash up the Gadlys during the war also, my mum said they, auntie Lena Rowlands, Beryl Rowlands myself and my mum, all walked up to the top of the Gadlys to see the wreckage. My mum also remembers the German plane coming down on the Cob, and the impact and explosion from the plane blew out all the windows in the surrounding houses and shop down the Station Road area. It is a real treat to read about the goings on in Bagillt, thanks a lot to Terah for the memories.
Tue Mar 25 09:40:03 2008
Will Thomas, Pembrokeshire.
Has anyone any knowledge of the warplanes that crashed on the Preseli hills during WW2. I'll be grateful for any information.
Fri Jan 18 07:30:44 2008
TOL, Bagillt
Hi Bert of Penmaenmawr. I know the Hawkyard family well, regrettably Gerald died many years ago but on the odd occasion I do see his sister in Flint. I must admit I was not aware of the Hawkyards having a pub. There is a reference which I have made regarding the beaufighter in the columns below. Regards, TOL.
Mon Jan 14 09:36:51 2008
Graham Lancaster, Raunds Wellingborough, Northants
On the 30th Oct 2007 I went in hospital. I met a smashing 87 year old gent called Roland Parker. He flew Spitfires,(World War Two) from Spit one upwards, he was in 111 Squadron (the black arrows) how good was that. After a lot of hard work he told us a few stories, what a great thrill. No link to the above, I thought you might find this interesting.
Wed Dec 12 12:59:00 2007
Bert Williams, Penmaenmawr
During the War I lived in the vlllage of Babell and was a pupil at Holywell County School where one of my classmates was Gerald Hawkyard whose parents kept a public house in Bagillt. I remember him coming late to school one day and saying that a Beaufighter had crashed on his parents new bungalow. Is Gerald still alive and well?
Mon Dec 10 08:23:46 2007
Claire Godfrey, Perigueux, France
To Mrs Helen Offutt Brown, David Offutt, et al.My father, David Idwal Jones, knows all about the crash of the B42 on 7th January 1944, because his father, Idwal Jones, was one of the first to the site. If you would like more details, please let me know. Claire Godfrey.
Tue Nov 13 09:57:10 2007
TOL Bagillt
Hi Mike, Conway. I have located a reference on my records regarding the enquiry which you made regarding an Avro Anson which crashed at Marl Farm, Llandudno Junction, on the 15 February 1944. The information I have reads as follows: '18th February 1944: Part of an aircraft found on the foreshore at Colwyn Bay. Believed to have dropped off a bomber which crashed at Llandudno Junction, in Caernarvonshire'. Further comments are 'This refers to Avro Anson No N5180 which crashed at Marl Farm, Llandudno Junction, 15th February 1944'. I hope this information assists you in your enquiry. Regards TOL
Thu Jul 26 09:04:07 2007
Mike Sargent, Conwy
Has there ever been a record kept of an Avro Anson which crashed near Marl Farm, Llandudno Junction around 44/45? The aircraft was on a navigational training. I saw it crash. It seemed that the aircraft was over stressed. As the wings were torn off outboard of the engines whilst in the air. The noise it made when the wings came off was just like a large vehicle skidding with all its wheels locked. The aircraft tipped vertically nose down and dived straight into the ground, killing all on board.
Mon Jul 23 12:17:51 2007
Ian Griffiths, St Helens, Lancs
Further to my last note could this aviator who was joy riding from Rhyl beach in the mid 1930s be Idwal Ap leuan Jones? Any information gratefully received.
Tue Apr 3 10:57:58 2007
TOL, Bagillt
To Dave Osbourne, Halstead, Essex.
With regards to your enquiry requesting details of a B17 crashing on 30th December 1943. I have looked through all records available to me and there is a brief reference made of a B 17 crash. The reference reads as follows, "28th December 1943. B-17 Flying Fortress of USAF reputed to have crashed near Rhyl".
Tue Mar 13 16:35:46 2007
Ian Griffiths - St Helens, Lancs
Dear Sir, I am currently researching into an aviator called Al Harris who flew with Sir Alan Cobhams Flying Circus back in the early 1930's. My father, Milton remenbers them when he was a small boy flying from fields near his home in Rainhill. He also remembers going on holiday to Rhyl and watching pleasure flights from the beach. He recalls one occasion when the aircraft came into land and the undercarriage got stuck in loose sand and the aircraft flipped over. If any reader has any information on this event I would be pleased to hear from them.
Tue Mar 13 08:49:07 2007
David Scrivens from Merthyr Tydfil
Could anyone tell me anything of crash involving 2 planes crashing, one just missing Mount Pleasant School near Aberfan. This would have been about 1943. Also if anyone knows of a plane coming down on the Twynau mountain above Pant.
Tue Mar 13 08:15:06 2007
Dave Osborne, Halstead, Essex
Anyone out there in NE Flintshire read or come across a mention of a USAAF B-17 Fortress crashing in the vicinity on 30 December 1943, killing all 18 on board, en route to Southport, Lancs? It belonged to the 95th Bomb Group, based at Horham, Suffolk. Serial No. 41-5791, coded BG-E.
Mon Mar 5 07:31:07 2007
TOL, Bagillt
Hi Elsie,
Many thanks for your most recent response and am sorry to hear that you had a difficult year during 2006, I sincerely hope that the situation has improved for you now. I mentioned to Barbara that Beryl had visited you recently. Barbara often mentions Beryl and their mutual friends from way back, we are, apart from a few aches and pains, ok.
With regards to your enquiry for details between 1938-1948. On this web, go into PICTURES- then OLD PHOTOS, - and highlight BAGILLT you will find a series of photos, number 3 and 4 shows a photo of one of the many trips my mother organized, you are on this photo alongside Freda Jones, hope you like it. In addition to this try THEN and NOW. Kindest regards Terah.
Re: Jonathan Herron's request for information regarding a crash in 1940 near Rhyl or Prestatyn. The only information I am able to pick up from records is that, on the 19th January 1940 an RAF Anson No N5050 crashed near Prestatyn. This information is listed in the 1977 Denbighshire Historical Society book Vol 26. I am not too sure if this Society still exists, it might be worth contactig the DCC.
Thu Jan 25 07:58:52 2007
Elsie Clarke from Weston-super-Mare.
Terah Oldfield-Lloyd.
Forgive the delay with my comments. I've had a difficult year.
You were right about the plane crash on the unfinished bungalow - my memory is not quite what it used to be.
You are also correct re. Beryl- she is my 'little' sister.
She visited me this last week, and sends her regards to Barbara - hoping you are both well.
Is there anything printed about the years l938 to l948? I grew up during this period, and there were lots of things ongoing during this time for our generation. I'm becoming too nostalgic and the longer I live in the West Country the more North Walian I become.
Wed Jan 24 09:26:56 2007
JONATHAN HERRON FROM MERTHYR TYDFIL
My father's uncle was killed in a plane crash near Rhyl or Prestatyn beachfront on the 19 January 1940, 502 Sqdn. Royal Air Force (Auxiliary Air Force), we are looking for any information.
Wed Jan 17 07:15:29 2007
TOL, Bagillt
Hi, Ref to Elsie Clarke's earlier comments from Weston Super Mare. Would you by any chance be the sister of Beryl?
Mon Nov 20 10:11:34 2006
Matt Rimmer.
To Mrs Offutt, your brothers aircraft was a B24 Liberator. I have been researching USAAF aircraft crashes in Wales for many years and have a lot of information on this crash. Please contact me if you would like me to send you the information I have gmc.cckw@trucks.wanadoo.co.uk
Mon Oct 30 09:26:58 2006
David Smith, Bagillt
I have only just seen the queries from the USA. For TOL, Lieutenant Brown's aircraft was a P-47 Thunderbolt, which crashed close to houses in Nantwich, Ches. His remains were never recovered and the crash site is marked as a grave and well-kept. Would like to talk to you more about local crashes. My email address is dj.daviator"at"btinternet.com. Substitute the "at" as usual of course!
Fri Jun 23 08:00:09 2006
TOL Bagillt
Ref to David Offutt's comments.
As a matter of interest, could David post brief details of this crash but in particular the location.
Mon Jun 5 09:48:38 2006
David Offutt
To Helen Offutt Brown:
I have a copy of the Air Force Accident Report dealing with the crash of the aircraft in which your brother was killed. Please contact me at 52842do"at"alltel.net. Substitute @ for the "at". I have tried to contact you through an email address that you were using when you placed your post about your brother in law but that address is not valid.
Thu Jun 1 14:37:20 2006
TOL Bagillt
to mrs helen offutt brown usa. my initial search into your enquiry does not indicate any plane crashes on january 7th 1944 however this may be due to the fact that the plane crashes referred to in my enquiry were limited to our county of flintshire, north wales. do you have any additional information indicating the immediate or approximate location of this unfortunate crash ?
Thu May 25 07:40:39 2006
Terah Oldfield-Lloyd. Bagillt.
Message to Mrs Helen Brown USA.
I KNOW OF A BOOK WHICH I WILL TRY AND OBTAIN WHICH LISTS PLANE CRASHES IN WALES DURING WW2. IF I SEE ANY REFERENCE TO YOUR ENQUIRY I WILL INFORM YOU ASAP.
REGARDS. TOL
Mon May 22 15:38:34 2006
Mrs Helen Offutt Brown, Kingsville, Maryland, USA
Hi, I came across this site accidentally. My brother's plane crashed in Wales on Jan 7th, 1944 during WWII. There was a site on here called Moles Hill I believe was the name
with a stone on and his name on. I was shocked when my now deceased sister e-mailed me about it. Do you know anything
of that crash or that marker there. Sincerely, Helen Brown, USA.
Mon May 8 10:47:18 2006
Grace From Flint
My Nain always talks about this plane crash its very interesting i like elsie's comment. i will be telling my nain about this site.
Mon Feb 27 10:39:44 2006
Terah Oldfield-Lloyd, Bagillt
I was interested to read Elsie's comments regarding the 'British plane' which crashed in Bagillt also her reference to the crash of the 'German plane' which crashed on 'the cob'.
I do not wish to contradict Elsie's comments but the 'British plane', a beaufighter, which crashed in Bagillt was not to my knowledge at the rear of Eddie Philips' garage but some two to three hundred metres east of that location behind the White Horse Inn. This crash, which is the subject of my earlier comments on this page, was confirmed by Andy Roberts of Northop, the son of Valerie Roberts (nee Hawkyard) whose parents' home, which was under construction at that time, caused the destruction of the property.
With regards to the German aircraft which crashed on the cob, as previously stated on this page, I have already submitted my account of this crash on the BBC WW2 people's war site under the heading watery grave of heinkell 111 p4.
Finally, I would appreciate any update, should this be available, from David re the crash of a tiger moth.
Mon Jan 16 10:56:35 2006
Elsie Clarke of W-S-M.
I remember a British plane crashing in the early part of the war on a bungalow behind Philips Garage on the main road (opposite the old E.B Jones's shop). I remember the smoke and that my father went to the scene (he was in the St Johns Am. Brig. at the time and he said that it was a terrible sight and all were killed. Also during the war a German plane crashed on the cob. The young pilot survived and was taken to Bettisfield Colliery (where my taid George Edwards was a caretaker) by my uncle Ted Jones (a special constable) and a Mr MacGorty? Of any interest?
Tue Jan 3 15:46:19 2006
Terah Oldfield-Lloyd, Bagillt
After giving further consideration to my recent posting regarding the query from David about the Tiger Moth, I am now of the opinion that the light aircraft that we saw landing at the Bedol field might have been a Westland Lysander or one of similar design rather than the Tiger Moth to which David refers.
Thu Aug 18 15:33:42 2005
Terah Oldfield-Lloyd, Bagillt.
Query from David Smith from Bagillt re Tiger Moth crash. The location of this crash to which David refers may well have been yet another aircraft crash that my friend and I witnessed. I recall seeing a light aircraft, around that time, landing in the field directly in front of the Bedol Farm. The field, until a couple of years or so ago, was where we flew our model aircraft.
The aircraft took a diagonal approach in an east to west direction, it made a perfect landing until it hit the drainage gully that ran across the field at that time. The gully was overgrown and presumably was not seen by the pilot prior to landing. My friend and I were, as I recall, the 'first on the scene'. The crew of two had scrambled from the aircraft by the time we had arrived and, if memory serves me correctly, were not too seriously injured. Some day or two later a '60 footer' arrived and the aircraft was presumably despatched to RAF Sealand. I hope this information will be of some interest to David.
Wed Aug 17 09:05:59 2005
David Smith from Bagillt
Thanks everyone for your very interesting answers to my queries about local aircraft accidents. I have just learned that a Tiger Moth from Sealand hit a hedge while making a practice forced-landing in a rather small field near Bagillt on 11 August 1941. The two ocupants were injured and the aircraft was wrecked. I suppose it is too much to expect anyone to remember the exact location?
Fri Jul 29 07:26:50 2005
Paul C, Northampton
Our family originally settled in Bagillt in the 1930s coming down from Scotland to find work in the mining industry (I was born in St Asaph 32 years later). Some of us still have photos of the British Army demolishing the old smelting chimney at Betwysfield colliery, Bagillt, in the 1950s. My grandfather Alex was in charge of the coal depot in that area during WW2.
Tue Jul 26 13:56:35 2005
David Smith from Bagillt
Thanks to everyone for their stories about the Bagillt Beaufighter and other local wrecks in which I am interested.
Wed Jun 1 14:15:00 2005
Terah from Bagillt.
Many thanks to Andy also your mother for confirming my story re crash of the Beaufighter. I am also pleased to read that Paul of Northhampton found interest in my story re the Heinkel and the reference to the Pictures and Dance tickets found on the Pilot. I would certainly agree with Paul that War is MAD BAD and very SAD.
Tue May 24 07:54:16 2005
Andy Roberts from Northop
Further to Terah's posting, my mother Valerie Roberts (nee Hawkyard) lives in Northop and remembers Terah and his wife Barbara, well. She confirms the details in Terah's account and the location of the crash site as described.
Wed May 18 09:18:52 2005
PAUL C NORTHAMPTON
I HAVE JUST READ Terah Oldfield-Lloyd's HEINKEL STORY, WHICH IS STILL ONE OF MY DAD'S MOST VIVID WAR STORIES. BY THE TIME HE AND HIS SCHOOLMATES HAD GOT TO THE SITE THE PLANE HAD LONG GONE UNDER BUT JUST THEN THE TIDE TURNED GETTING UNDER THE BOMBERS WING AND FLIPPING IT OVER MUCH LIKE A WHALE'S TAIL, ONLY THIS ONE HAD AN EIREE LUFTWAFFE CROSS ON IT'S UNDERSIDE. ANOTHER BOMBER CRASHED AT NIGHT AROUND THE SAME TIME AND ONE OF THE PILOTS HAD BEEN RETRIEVED AND LAID OUT ON MY NANA'S KITCHEN TABLE BY THE LOCAL AUTHORITIES. IN HIS FLIGHT JACKET POCKETS THEY FOUND PICTURES OF HIS WIFE AND CHILDREN AND TICKETS TO A DANCE IN BERLIN FOR THE FOLLOWING NIGHT...WAR IS MAD, BAD AND VERY SAD...
Mon May 16 16:30:01 2005
Terah Oldfield-Lloyd, Bagillt
I vividly recall seeing a Beaufighter crash at the location given by Andy Roberts. It indeed crashed into a bungalow which was in the early stages of construction having been delayed because of the war. The owners of the property were the Hawkyard family, the only immediate surviving member of that family lives 'locally' but I am not sure of her married surname but do however see her from time to time in Flint. Some time after the war, I believe it was the early 1950s, the late John Bevan, builder, completed the re-construction of the property which later became his family residence and named the property The Briars. It was demolished in the late 1960s to make way for the Bagillt by-pass. It was said at the time (1940s) that the engine of the aircraft was left in situ and probably remains there to this day. With regards to the response from David Williams of Bristol. Two Spitfires crashed in 'our area' during the war, the one into the Cob Bank a quarter of a mile or so behind the former Crosville Depot and the other at Coleshill Fechan, the pilot of this Spitfire was Canadian, both pilots were unfortunately killed. Finally, should anyone wish to read three more local incidents during the war I have published these on the BBC People's War website. 1, Watery Grave of Heinkell 111 p4 web ref (A3336392) 2, Near Miss 1 ref ( A3314413) 3, Near Miss 2 ref (A3286226).
Thu Jan 1 01:00:00 1970
