your comments
Stuart Jones (Rhyl)
Picture of Rhyl's 'Little Venice': For those of you who have missed or have not seen the episode of WaterWorld about the Gondolas under the Queen's here is the web link. It also contains the picture too! Direct Link: www.itvlocal.com/central/programmes/?player=Cen_Prog_15&void=146631
Tue May 6 07:51:54 2008
Stuart Jones, Rhyl
Save Rhyl Queens on your Television on ITV1 Wales @ 7.30pm Thursday 1st May 2008. This Waterworld programme includes all the footage about the Venice Waterways under the Queens in Rhyl.
Thu May 1 08:59:30 2008
Karl North from Swindon
I used to live in the Queens hotel as a boy between 1977 to 1984. As to Little Venice, there was still a small section in the cellar which still existed. As to my knowledge the rest had been completely filled in with concrete. The main entrance was located towards the rear of the building under the fire escape "back of the car park"; the tunnels ran mainly under the market. The short section which still survived was nearly under the walk way between the hotel and the arcade to the right, from memory it was a small canal like struture with green tiles lining the walls of the canal and the top of the walkway. My parents have a book containing many pictures of the Queens in its full glory, from the green house on the roof and the ballroom. I will try to find the book and will tell you the name etc, leaving a message here with details. When I was living there, all of the upper floors were run down and not open to the public. It was a very big hotel and very spooky, there was a lot of ghost stories. I would love to visit again and give a tour. If anybody wants any more information, I will be pleased to help.
Mon Apr 28 08:21:35 2008
Andrea, Rhyl
I am keen to find out about Little Venice, and if anyone has pics or knows where to get some, or even better - get in there.
Fri Feb 15 08:39:11 2008
Stuart Jones (Rhyl)
Reply to Kath Whitty. I have not been able to get inside the tunnels of Rhyl's Little Venice. I do have a picture which is the only one known to exist. I have interviewed the workers at the Queen's and they confirm that Little Venice does exist. I had an interview with ITV for a documentary called WATERWORLD EPO 4 and I think on EPISODE 9 is about the canals and gondolas underground. I cannot download the picture of Rhyl's Little Venice as it is copyrighted. But I can show it to you. Hope this helps.
Thu Feb 7 08:40:11 2008
Kath Whitty
I am fascinated by this. I saw the item about it in a programme on BBC1 this week which I videod and have watched a couple of times. I think this must be true and would love to hear that you have gained access. I will be in Rhyl at Easter and will looking forward to good news.
Mon Feb 4 09:30:30 2008
Terry Watts from Rhyl
Does anyone have old pictures/cards of the barber shop in Bedford Street?
Fri Jan 4 09:51:26 2008
Steph
I would love to see a picture of "little venice" as it has always intrigued me as to how it looks. Does anyone please have a picture?
Fri Dec 14 08:15:17 2007
Stuart Jones, Rhyl
Little Venice news: Confirmed news that two Gondolas from 1907 are still under the Queens, in Rhyl's Little Venice. The entrance still exists and can be found on the East Parade side at the entrance of the indoor market. A pale blue heart and a swan are said to be within the entrance too. Petitions to Save Rhyl Queens can be found on the following web site:
Any questions please e-mail me here. I will try to answer your question as best as I can. I have some good news as well. I have the plans from 1835 - 1904 the year before they cleared the basement to make way for Rhyl's Little Venice.
Mon Sep 24 08:57:53 2007
Stuart Jones, Rhyl
Tomorrow has been cancalled due to lack of interest!
Wed Sep 19 08:48:51 2007
Stuart Jones
Is there anyone out there out there who actually cares about Rhyl? They're going to tear down the one and only last Victorian building left standing on Rhyl Promenade. Rhyl Queens Arcade. We are here to try and save Rhyl Queen's from demolition. If you actually care about Rhyl then please write to us at saverhylqueens@aol.com and tell us a story or anything that you may have. An old postcard, a pamphlet, an advertisement from when the Queens was constructed. The Queens has been on the market for the last five to six years. This is the last Victorian building left standing, there is nothing else left so if you, the people of Rhyl and beyond who are reading this JOURNAL want to do something about it then now is the time to do it. Join us in the Save Rhyl Queens campaign. There is a reason why we are doing this. The Queens Palace accommodated a large theatre and a super ballroom. In the dome was a zoo above which was a small observation tower. Below ground level was a small lake designed to look like a Venetian scene complete with gondolas. Admission to this unique attraction was a mere 2d and an extra 1d for a trip on the gondola. The walls of the building were the likeness of present day Venetian scene, but even the eight doubled arches that span the walled-in water, on which gondolas were manned by picturesquely attired Italians. The Queens entrance to little Venice still exists today and at the heart of the entrance in the East Parade of the promenade is the swan and the pale blue heart. Also said to exist is two gondolas from 1907 when it was closed off. We have contacted the Italian Family who came to Rhyl to man 'little Venice' and said that they have pictures of little Venice, never seen before here in Rhyl. The Queens also supported a tropical style roof garden. On 1st August in 1902 by the Rhyl Palace, Arcade and Hotel Company dominated the sea front. On the morning of Sunday 24th November 1907 a large crowd gathered to witness the Queens's Palace fire. All is not lost saverhylqueens@aol.com have the plans of the 1907 and after the fire rebuild. 1834 - 1904 Plans of the Queen before little Venice was built. True to say that much was lost when the Queen's Palace burnt down. The damaged part of the Queen's Hotel was rebuilt and continued to function as a hotel and restaurant until recent times. A theatre was built on the site of the Palace and this was known as the Queen's Theatre. The Queen's Arcade, 1902 is still in evidence over the Sussex Street entrance to the Arcade. So the next time you are up there look up and see the plaster work at the entrance. It is beautiful. Every day people walk through without taking a thought of looking up. Have you noticed it? All this time it has survived. Please look up and see the beauty of the Queens Arcade. Welcome to my world. This is just the start of what lies underneath the polystyrene Ceiling and all the wood coverings. There is so much more underneath that we have not seen. But she does exist. Look beyond what you can see and see how it was back then. So much more lies still intact. If you want to see the ballroom back, Theatre and Little Venice, the entrance then write to us at saverhylqueens@aol.com. We want to do something about it and give you the people of Rhyl and beyond the chance to revisit the past, to take you back to a world that does exist; whether a child or not we're going back there and restoring what belongs to us, a piece of history, memories that will become real to us once again. If you want another shopping mall right here in Rhyl then go ahead and say nothing, but if you want what could be then fight to save Rhyl Queens. Please do not let another shopping mall be here. We don't need it. What we need is the Super Ballroom back as to how is was and the Queens restored. We want to give people the chance to see Little Venice as it is. Not just a memory or a photograph, because 'seeing' is more believing. Thank you, Stuart Jones saverhylqueens@aol.com
Fri Aug 24 10:29:50 2007
Stuart Jones
To all those people out there if you think Rhyl is "****" (pardon my French). Have you ever looked at Rhyl from a different angle? Seen something different? Well, I have. The Queens Arcade in Rhyl is more then 100 years old and was built by the Victorians. It hold 'Little Venice' under the maple sprung dance floor - the first of its kind anywhere in the world. Once you started to delve deep at the history of Rhyl you do see a different side to it. I have collected pictures off the internet for my personal use and books that I have brought either from charity shops, Welsh shop and even e-bay have greatly contributed to my new hobby. I have enjoyed using the internet to broaden my knowledge of Rhyl. The history of the Queens Arcade very much excites me today. I love to learn about the past. It is very exciting to me. So if you care about Rhyl and I know you do because you moan about the place why not do something about it? I joined the 'Save Rhyl Queens Project' in June 2007 and have gained respect from my new friends. I am dedicated to this project and I am against what the council have put up in recent years - the children's village and the drift park with the huge pencils sticking out of the promenade. What a mess! I read with local interest in the Journal how the council spent £3.2 million. Locals were ashamed as to how money was wasted here in Rhyl. I know I am. If you want Rhyl to be a better place then write to the council leader, Rhiannon Hughes, and tell her what you want.
Mon Jul 2 09:31:15 2007
Jo & Steve Francis from Rhyl
Hi Verity, we have looked extensively at the plans for the Queens Hotel and palace at the Hawarden archives but the plans for 1902, when the canal system was there, have been lost. Harry Thomas the historian has a photo of Little Venice - the picture also appeared on an advertisment for the opening for the Queens Palace in 1902. After the fire in 1907 Little Venice was never reopened. It only ran under the Queens complex and they got Italians for the gondaliers. We have the plans of the Queens Palace from 1907 the rebuild to 1925 as we are trying to save the Queens from demolition - we want to see it restored. And on that note we have a public meeting on Tuesday 19th of June at the Good News Mission, Marsh Road, Rhyl, from 7-9pm to let everyone know how far the campaign has gone. There will be photos and the old plans on display.
Wed Jun 13 08:52:10 2007
Verity Stanley, Rhyl
I have read with much interest over the past months of the "Little Venice" which is supposed to exist under the remains of the Queen's Theatre but I still remain very sceptical. Firstly it would be very easy to prove or disprove the existence of such structures by reffering to the plans for the building which must, I assume, be with one local authority or another. This does not seem to have been done. The link with the Marine Lake is also a bit of a red herring. The Marine Lake lies lower than the Queens and if a water canal existed between the two locations a pumping station of some sort would have been needed. There is no evidence of a pumping plant or any existing artefacts. If water channels existed beneath the Queens ballroom they would have also needed a pumping system, probably run by a large engine. Have any engine mountings been discovered? Is there any record of an engine being fitted or taken away? Have any authenticated photographs of the structures in question been produced by those who believe in the existence of "Little Venice"? Does any of the advertising literature from the early days of the Queens boast of the Little Venice attraction? If this attraction did exist it would have certainly been made known to potential visitors. I have seen no evidence of this! Being interested in local history I do hope that these structures exist however I am of the mind that it is unlikely based on the evidence produced thus far.
Tue Jun 12 08:16:08 2007
Stuart Jones, Rhyl
I am appealing to the people of Rhyl and beyond their boundaries to ask anyone if they have any pictures of the (Rhyl) queens in its heyday, displaying background, personal photographs anything you have which will be of help to me. Please contact me. If anyone has taken recent photographs inside the Queens, old or new, will be of grateful help. Thank you, Stuart Jones (Rhyl).
Wed Jun 6 10:16:43 2007
Stuart Jones, Rhyl
Nick from Rhyl on 23 09:24:18 2006 You mentioned about having access to most of the building. What can you tell me about this please.This was your message on 23 09:24:18 2006:
I'd be interested if anyone could tell me how to get under the Queens Building to start a search for this Little Venice. I have access to most of the building so if there is a passage I'd like to see.
Can you get in touch with me? And do you have any pictures I could use. I am desperate to save Rhyl Queens.Than! kyouStuart Jones rhyl
Wed Jun 6 10:15:13 2007
Steve & Jo Francis
Hi Nick, we need you to contact us on saverhylqueens@aol.com as we missed you on Wednesday at the Town Hall. It is very urgent to get some details of what is left inside the queens buildings. Is it right you where able to get some photos for your course only they will not allow any body in now to get any photos or is there anybody else out there that can help?
Mon Jun 4 07:42:12 2007
Kathryn Martin from Roy Noble Programme on BBC Radio Wales
Tune into Roy Noble this Tuesday from 9am on BBC Radio Wales where he will be discussing Save Rhyl Queens with Steve and Jo Francis from Rhyl.
Fri Jun 1 07:33:13 2007
Stuart Jones, Rhyl
Little Venice supportes. I call upon you to help SAVE RHYL QUEENS. On Monday 4th June 2007 we are meeting with the council to try and keep Little Venice from being demolished. The meeting will be held at 3pm and there will be a pre-meeting at the council offices at around 2.45pm. This meeting will discuss if we can save the Queens from being demolished. So please be there: We NEED YOUR SUPPORT. PS. Has anyone got a voice recorder we could borrow?
Tue May 29 10:33:02 2007
Nick S. Rhyl
I'm doing a short presentation for my degree about the Queens Palace and ballroom, so I will certainly go to the Town Hall on the 30th! Well done and keep it up! Restore the Queens!
Thu May 24 08:02:59 2007
Stuart Jones, Rhyl
Town Hall 30th May 2007. 'Save Rhyl Queens'. Stall opening in the town hall. If you care about your past and want to save the Queens and restore it to its orignal hayday time then please come along and help us. Stuart Jones of Rhyl has a rare picture of the underground "Venice" for the public to see which will be displayed.
Mon May 21 14:27:49 2007
Stuart Jones, Rhyl
Hello Little Venice lovers! I have a rare picture of 1905 shows the interior of the underground canals called "Venice" underneath the Queens Palace. You are welcome to get in touch with me.
Thu May 17 13:44:27 2007
Roy Hodson from Bedford
I remember playing a one night stand at the Queens Ballroom in Rhyl in 1950 with the Arthur Rowberry Orchestra from Birmingham, who were the National Semi-Professional Champions. We brought with us Miss Violet Pretty who was Miss Great Britain that year and she sang a couple of numbers with us. She later changed her name to Anne Hayward and became a famous film star. After the dance we were invited to go to the hotel next door, which I think was called the Queens Hotel, for a drink. While we were in there the police raided the hotel because of suspected drinking after hours. We all had to sign the hotel register and stay until 4am. We got back to Birmingham at around 8am feeling very much the worse for wear.
Tue May 8 10:14:12 2007
Jo & Steve Francis, Rhyl
They are going to get rid of the last original thing in Rhyl to replace with another shopping mall. If Little Venice is in any way shape or form still there it will be completely demolished if the builders begin. Is there any way we can get this stopped? Does anyone wish to help us try? We are very sad the way money is being wasted in Rhyl and would like to see something restored and not demolished.
Tue Apr 3 07:47:16 2007
gareth and ella, rhyl
We live in Rhyl and would love to get inside these tunnels. Does anyone know how we would go about it?
Wed Feb 14 11:02:44 2007
Benjamin Sarginson, Rhyl
The Queen's Arcade/Vaults and the old indoor market are currently under the ownership of Brian Parker and Parker's Leisure Holdings. Maybe if you want to find out some information from the source you could get in touch with them. Alternatively, you could go and knock on the door of the office which is next door to the entrance to the Queen's indoor market on Sussex Street.
Wed Jan 24 08:44:23 2007
Micelle, Rhyl
Dave, Llandudno, thanks for all the information, I found it to be fascinating reading! Wen, could you elaborate a little more as to where the tunnels are.
Tue Nov 7 09:41:08 2006
Trace Newton-Ingham, London
I remember going on the river caves at the marine lake - really quiet and magical (to a 3 or 4 year old). Also, whenever I smell 2 stroke exhaust I remember the motor boats on the lake and being scared of falling into the water through the gaps in the boards! My mum had the shooter at the lake, so I was round there quite a lot, but really young, so don't remember everything.
Mon Oct 30 10:02:41 2006
Wen, Rhyl
Yes the ride is still there however did you know the tunnels also run under what was the swimming baths (now Peacocks). There was an entrance in the baths from which access could be gained however it was concreted up but sometimes dead seagulls were still found down there and I believe the sound of the running water could be heard quite plainly.
Tue Oct 3 10:07:22 2006
Dave from Llandudno
Like many people, I have always been fascinated by the tales of 'Little Venice', underneath what was originally the Queen's Palace, opened on 1st August 1902. The Queen's Palace contained a ballroom with room for 2,000 couples, a theatre, a winter garden, 40 shops, a zoo, a waxworks, a native village and 'under the ballroom, an imitation Venice with real canals, gondolas and Italians'. The Queen's Palace burnt down in 1907 and was replaced by the present Queen's Building, with the Queen's Hotel, Theatre etc. This was when the Little Venice ride closed, I would imagine. Some elements of the original Queen's Palace remain, notably the very left-hand side of the Promenade building (complete with small piece of original balustrade), and the facade in Sussex Street. Whether Little Venice survives intact or not underneath the present buildings is debatable but it sure would be fun to find out! If anyone has the ability to go looking, please take a camera and post the photos on the web! The above info is mainly from "The People's Palaces" by Lynn F. Pearson and partly from memory, so don't shout if any of it is wrong! :-) I can certainly recall seeing photos in a book of the fire-damaged Queen's Palace. On a sadder note, I was looking at the Denbighshire Council website and saw that the whole of the Queen's Building block is scheduled for redevelopment with a new shopping centre. I think I'm going to spend an hour or two with my camera documenting as much of the building as I can...just in case! Am I right in thinking that the Queen's Theatre is still pretty much intact behind what was the Pleasureland amusements? If anyone would like to get in touch or has any info to share, I can be found on the Flickr photo site, under the SnakeCorp username.
Mon Jun 19 10:54:25 2006
Jule Roberts, Rhyl
I remember my Dad telling me about a gondola ride under the Queens many years ago. He told me lots about what a magnificent building it had been. It is a fascinating thought this tunnel/canal could still be there?
Thu Jun 15 09:05:44 2006
Nick, Rhyl
I'd be interested if anyone could tell me how to get under the Queens Building to start a search for this Little Venice. I have access to most of the building so if there is a passage I'd like to see.
Thu Feb 23 09:24:18 2006
Steve from Towyn
For many years now, I've been trying to find out the true story of 'Little Venice' in Rhyl. I believe this used to run underground between the Marine Lake, the prom end, and went to the Queen's Hotel/Theatre - now called Scruples - and the Queen's market. I found out from work men that built the Scruples night club that there were still remains of the old theatre somewhere in the building, and there was a tunnel like a canal or river as well. Unfortunately, I didn't get another chance to speak to them to find out more. If anyone out there could help please get in touch.
Arthur Hapgood from Kinmel Bay: It's amazing how stories grow in such a short space of time. With regards to 'Little Venice', the only gondolas that I can remember were located in the Marine Lake amusement park, and took many courting couples round an enclosed watercourse in semi darkness, for a few furtive clinches. I know nothing of a tunnel under the Queen's Theatre, even though I worked on its structure on frequent occasions (my uncle was the preferred building maintenance contractor). We also built the White Rose Garage (1952) which preceded the White Rose Centre. The ballroom (now the market) still holds delightful memories, for when I stop at the column mirrors, I still appear to have a full head of hair.
Jed from Rhyl: The underground gondola ride still exists underground in Rhyl but has been mothballed for many years now. The ride is located beneath the Queen's Hotel (now the Queen's Arcade) on Rhyl Promenade. More information can be found at Rhyl Library or in local history books.
Don, Rhyl exile: There was an underground, or 'under an artificial mountain' would be nearer the truth, water ride at the Marine Lake up to the Fifties. It was more like a modern log flume than anything from Venice, the passengers sat in rectangular 'boats' with four seats, and were carried on a very quiet trip into a series of panoramas, as the current in the canal took them turning this way and that around the circuit, eventually back out into the fresh air. It was very pleasant, tame if you like, and I have seen similar rides at Belle Vue, Manchester, and Alton Towers."
Phil Round from Rhyl: As far as I know or have been told the little Venice was under the Queen's ballroom, which is now the Queen's market. Does anyone have any pictures of it?
Wed Jan 11 08:35:15 2006
Antony, formerly of Rhyl
I am wondering if anyone could provide me with information about these tunnels? I am very interested in the local history and this is something I haven't come across before. Any information you can provide please.
Wed Sep 7 16:42:26 2005
