your comments
Owen, Pevensey, East Sussex
To Charlie Garnett: the Buddicombs and the Napiers must have been quite close, neighbours if not related. My great grandmother (see my note of 29 December) was born Anne Goodwin in 1848, in Cilcain, and was in service with the Napiers from 1869 to 1877, when she married Thomas James, also from Cilcain. Colonel and Mrs Edward Napier presented her with a wonderful canteen of silver cutlery, 12 sets. A generous gift from employer to servant. We still have the cutlery, handed down by my mother. Any further information about the Napiers or the Goodwins would be appreciated.
Mon Feb 16 08:42:58 2009
Charlie Garnett, HK & Paris
A few general notes - the Buddicoms of Penbedw are descended from the Buddicoms of Ticklerton Court. I am descended from Venetia's uncle, William Barber Buddicom. He had two daughters of which one was my great-grandmother, the other married a Napier. The family had Penbedw and a villa in Italy, both of which as I understand was financed from the family's railroad interests. A re-make of the Buddicom locomotive can be seen in the Railways Museum near Rouen; there is a lithograph showing the opening of the Rouen-Le Harvre line & the locomotive is the Buddicom locomotive.
Wed Feb 11 09:34:11 2009
H.Yates, Cheshire.
I have been researching the Yates family name and there is a memorial window to Sir Joseph St John Yates in the parish church at Sandbach in Cheshire.
Mon Feb 2 08:18:30 2009
Owen Visick, East Sussex, formerly Nannerch
My great grandfather, Thomas James, was coachman to the Buddicomb family in the late 19th/early 20th century, and his wife was I believe, housekeeper. My mother, who died 5 years ago aged 95, remembers the family well, as she used to watch Miss Buddicomb (presumably Venetia) going out to ride. We used to stay with a family named Wilcox at Middle Lodge right up until the early fifties. Tom Wilcox was general handyman on the estate, and used to look after the generating plant driven by a gas engine.Incidentally I remember the name Elvet Pierce from Nannerch School - my brother and I were there in the early 40s, around the time the Spitfire crashed.
Mon Dec 29 10:24:58 2008
Fiona Pender, Nannerch
Was Cilcain Hall once part of the Penbedw Estate? Cilcain Hall is between Star Crossing and Rhesycae (not to be confused with Penbedw Hall). We used to live in the converted Stables at Cilcain Hall and now live in Nannerch. On the deeds to our house it details how the land to build "Nannerch Village Estate" (a collection of houses built in the village in the 1970s) was sold to the developer (Alcad Homes Ltd) by Joris Maskelyne Arnold-Forster in 1966 who had purchsed the land from Venetia Digby Buddicom in 1965 as it had previously formed part of the Penbedw estate.
Mon Feb 18 09:57:35 2008
Maureen Farrimond, Hawarden
I have an interesting letter written in Match 1891 by Estate Clark, William McMurray which was secreted under an Oak Floor in Penbedw Hall when it was laid in the first year after the marriage of Walter Buddicum Na Rose Banks.
Mon Dec 31 09:17:58 2007
Nicholas Bankes
I live in Cilcain and am the great nephew of Rose Bankes who lived at Penbedw (see Betsy USA) married Walter Buddicom in 1890. My family lived at Soughton Hall which was sold following my grandmother's death. The Bankes family lived there as a result of a Bankes (from Corfe Castle/Kinsgston Lacy, Dorset) marrying the daughter of John Wynne, Bishop of St Asaph (b. 1646 Caerwys). We have been here ever since!
Mon Oct 22 08:59:52 2007
June Bridgeman, Tunbridge Wells
Here is my connection to Penbedw Hall. Lieut General Thomas Molyneux - Williams Knight of the Royal Guelphic Order who died in May 1871 is commemorated in a granite drinking fountain erected by his widow (his second wife) in Tunbridge Wells. In the 1840 Naval and Military Almanack he is referred to as Major TM Williams KH The 1849 Topographical Dictionary of Wales shows him living at Penbedw Hall in 1849 having added the "Williams" to his name following his marriage to a wealthy widow of that name and acquisition through her of the property (Watkin Williams her uncle had died childless). He is also mentioned in a letter by the authoress Frances Trollope to her publisher in 1835. I should greatly welcome any more information about him and his disposal of Penbedw for a local history project here, including how he acquired the unusual Guelphic order of chivalry invented by the Prince Regent in 1815 and discontinued as a personal royal honour in 1837 when Salic law prevented Queen Victoria also becoming King of Hanover.
Tue Sep 25 14:00:11 2007
Betsy USA
I am of no relation, BUT: Rose Caroline Bankes (daughter of John Scott Bankes of Soughton Hall) first married Walter Hownam Buddicom in 1890. He died 2 years later and she remarried Walter Baldwyn Yates in 1896 and had Winifred and Rachel. Walter Yates was barrister and died in 1947. In the 1901 Census he is in London and Rose is at Cilcain with the girls. Walter Yates was the son of Joseph St John Yates and Amelia Yates. Walter's gggrandfather was Sir Joseph Yates. The family of Yates comes from around Bolton in Lancashire, lived at Peel Hall. Walter's brothers included Hercules Campbell Yates (coroner in Cheshire) and Joseph Maghull Yates. The Yates men always seemed to marry VERY well. I have no clue where the Yates were prior to about 1680. Most likely they would eventually tie up with the Liverpool bunch. Hope that helps sort this bunch out.
Wed May 9 08:38:12 2007
Don Hansen from Wellington, NZ
To Julie of Afonwen: You asked: "I have some photos of the inside of what looks a very old church, and a plaque inside gives reference to Watkin Williams...any clues?"
Watkin Williams was the owner of Penbedw Hall in the early 19th century, so I think the church photo you have is of Nannerch parish church. The Hall was indeed demolished as others have said, but when I visited the present house on the site the owners showed me the old coachhouse and other outbuildings that survived from that time. My connection is through my 4th-great-grandfather, John Griffiths (c1756-1822), who was the Williams family's coachman for all his working life. The Williams family paid for his gravestone near the Nannerch church door, as the inscription on the stone states.
Mon Apr 30 07:56:11 2007
Keith Bell, Spain. (Formerly Maeshafn)
I was born on Penbedw Estate at Mold Lodge, not far from Star Crossing. My father worked on the estate as a gardener from 1934 until 1946 under Mr Eversfield who was Head Gardener. I remember Venetia Buddicom very well, she would give me a penny when I opened the gate for her at the Lodge. The old lodge was pulled down in I think the 1850s to make way for the new Mold-Denbigh railway, the road was also realigned at the same time. The lodge I was born in dates from this period and has the Buddicom initials over the door. As a footnote I remember Elvet Pierce, we attended Nannerch school at the same time.
Thu Mar 1 08:45:34 2007
Annette from Gwersyllt
In the 1881 census, Mary Davies age 24 b Pontblyddyn is a servant at Penbedw Hall, Nannerch. She is the sister of my gt gt grandmother. The head of the household is Ellin Napier, married, aged 33, born France. There is no husband named, but sons Henry L, William B, Patrick R and an un-named daughter aged 3 weeks. I can't find any more on this family at all.
Wed Feb 7 08:11:08 2007
Anne Jackman, Dunedin, New Zealand
To Anne Mitchell. I have just looked at this page after many months - we share a great grandfather and I can provide information on the Buddicoms' arrival into NZ (1879 via Otago).
Mon Dec 4 09:35:22 2006
Jennifer Brown from London
I'm a member of the Ticklerton branch of the Buddicoms and have several photographs of the Buddicoms at Penbedw. There is indeed a Liverpool connection. Robert Pedder B. (b. 1781), the father of William Barber B., was Rector of Everton, and his father Robert Joseph B. (b. 1756) was a doctor in Liverpool. The branches all derive from Robert Joseph and before him the family were mariners for several generations. (I believe the New Zealand branch is descended from a later Robert Pedder B., a descendant of the first Robert Pedder's brother Edward.) As far as I know the surname continues only in New Zealand.
Mon Nov 27 09:05:56 2006
Margaret Short
I have just read all the comments with much interest. I am a little baffled by Elvet Pierce's comments. I can only assume they refer to Penbedw Hall. The Cilcain Hall that I lived in was rebuilt in 1877 after a fire. The oak panelling in the main hall was reported to be original so must have been salvaged. The main entrance had this date over the door. I have many pictures from in and around the house when we lived in it.
Wed Nov 15 13:04:52 2006
Michelle Veldhuis from Australia
There is another branch of the Buddicom family now well represented in Australia. There is plenty of material available on the Buddicoms of Ticklerton, Shropshire. Robert Arthur Buddicom, son of William Squire Buddicom, migrated to Australia in 1915, changing his name to Bedford. q.v.
Thu Sep 14 07:38:12 2006
Norma Genys, Liverpool
My grt-grandfather was Head Gamekeeper at Penbedw Hall, 100 plus years ago. More info would be great. He was born in Nantglyn. His name was Robert Lloyd. In later years he had a farm in Ysceifiog.
Mon Aug 21 09:58:02 2006
Julie, Afonwen
Thanks for that June, must find a few spare hours, and do some research.
Thu Aug 3 10:21:47 2006
June Conway, Kent
Flint Registry Office has masses of information on Penbedw Hall and the Buddicom family. I spent a couple of days there as I was researching the Buddicom family and their relations. As I recall there were letters, photographs - you could happily spend a lot of time there.
Its interesting that the ball was originally built for the Mostyn/Digby family as Augusta Digby married Harry Buddicom. Also her mother was a Banks and a Banks married a Buddicom and following her widowhood married a Yates, so the families are all inter-connected.
Fri Jul 21 09:25:14 2006
Anne Mitchell nee Buddicom, Christchurch New Zeala
My brother Neil Buddicom lives in Auckland NZ and has 3 children Nicholas, Emily and Alexandra. My sister Ruth Buddicom is researching the family history from the NZ end and we would be pleaed to hear from anyone who may have additional information. To the best of our knowledge our family members are descendants of Robert Pedder Buddicom.
Thu Apr 20 15:54:07 2006
Anne Jackman, Dunedin, New Zealand
A comment about the Buddicom family rather than the house - my great great grandfather, Robert Pedder Buddicom arrived in Dunedin, New Zealand with his wife and 10 children in 1879. Very few Buddicoms are left on this side of the world - my mother was one of the last, perhaps half a dozen others.
Tue Jan 31 01:21:10 2006
Julie /Afonwen
Does anybody know if the Yates family had any connections with Liverpool as some of the photos I have show them crossing on the Mersey on a ferry, and also the landing stage. I also have photos of them outside a very large Georgian style house, that I have sent to Flintshire Records Office in the hope they could identify it, but alas they could not which leaves me wondering was it in Liverpool. Did Cilcain Hall have its own church chapel? As again I have some photos of the inside of what looks a very old church, and a plaque inside gives reference to Watkin Williams...any clues?
Thu Oct 20 13:47:36 2005
Giles Hunt, Melbourne, Australia
I was very interested to read this. My grandmother, Elizabeth Hunt (nee Yates) was Winifred Yates's sister. Up until Freddie's death in 1976, we stayed at Cilcain Hall most holidays and my father was born there in 1928. I have fond memories of our times there. It was a great house for kids, especially as we lived in London and were able to roam pretty freely around the surrounding countryside. Following my great-aunt's death, the house (which she had rented, as had her parents, from the Buddicoms for about 70 yrs) passed back to the Buddicom Estate. We retained a small cottage in Cilcain village until 2 years ago. Interestingly, the Yates' were also related to the Banks family who owned Soughton Hall. Winifred Yates was a local institution, JP, and heavily involved in life in Rhesycae, particularly the church, where she is buried.
Thu Oct 13 02:44:12 2005
Sioned Davies, Sunningdale, Berkshire
Just read this and found it fascinating. I lived in Cilcain Hall from approx 1978 to 1986 with my family. I believe it was Winnifred Yates who lived there before us up until her death. Since we moved out it has been sold twice (I think).
Fri Sep 9 15:02:26 2005
Julie, Afonwen
The photos I have are mostly of Cilcain Hall, with some interior shots as well. I am not sure of the date, maybe 1900, maybe 1915, but the same lady keeps cropping up on most of them, also outside a well known p.h. in Afonwen, and along the railway line also. There is an older gent with her, I am not sure if father or husband, and she always has a little dog with her. Also shots of Cilcain Church and Halkyn Church. I am going to visit a well known historian in the area in the next few weeks, and will take the photos as she will probably have a good idea who they are of.
Tue Aug 23 20:46:37 2005
Elvet Pierce, Lixwm
Yes she was the last of the direct line with the Buddicom name. The name lives on in the many old estate buildings with WBB on them - William B was her father, and a well known engineer. There is an engine with the name Buddicom in a train museum in France! As for Cilcain hall, that was bought into Penbedw estate in 1873 by WBB, and for the first half of last century was lived in by the Yates family (cousins of the Buddicoms). I remember the last of them well - slighly eccentric, but extremely generous. Rhesycae has an institute hall thanks to her.
To return to Venetia, she was a great friend of Dame Freya Stark, explorer and politician. Several letters in the Freya Stark collection are addressed to her.
Re. a Liverpool connection, there is a possible link to shipping via the Gyrn Castle estate who once owned Cilcain Hall and who had shipping interests, but that was pre 1873.
Sun Aug 14 22:43:46 2005
Julie, Afonwen
Wow, what a history, was Venetia the last of the line of Budicoms? If you ever know of any post cards around please let me know. Also, I have some old photos of Cilcain Hall, do you know any of Cilcain's history, and would the owners of approx 100 years ago have any connections to Liverpool?
Fri Aug 12 10:45:12 2005
Elvet Pierce, Lixwm
The hall was built in 1775 for the Mostyn/Digby family. Extended early 20th century for the Buddicom family, the last of whom, Venetia Digby Buddicom, lived there until the early 1950s. The house was demolished in 1958/59. There are photographs in a book called The Lost Houses of Wales, and there are also postcards of the house from early 1900s that sometimes turn up. When the house was knocked down, much of the interior was sold off - the stairs which my grandfather built are now in a house in the south of England. I lived on the estate from 1940 to 1953.
Mon Aug 8 22:14:31 2005
