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Wind Farms

Cefn Croes windfarm in Cwm Ystwyth in the Cambrian Mountains

Last updated: 25 January 2006

These are messages from our talking point about wind farms. Where do you stand on the issue?

Ben Palmer from the Isle of Skye says the landscape isn't renewable:

"It is not 'Nimbys' that we should worry about, it is the 'Numtys' that believe that destroying our natural environment by littering our landscape with windmills of mass destruction will somehow save the planet. They do not seem to realise that wind factories are simply a money making con set up by the wind industry... It is time people realised that our landscape is not renewable - they are not making any more of it! Get rid of the numptys now"


Andrew from Aberystwyth says this is a highly political matter:

"The trouble with asking the general public if they agree or not is that this issue is very political. There is a lot of money to be made by multinationals exploiting the fears over global warming. Cefn Croes plateau is presently drying out because of the destruction of the hydrological system by the numerous access tracks. As the peat dries out, it is releasing CO2 at an enormous rate. This was not factored into the environmental assessment. In effect, all the CO2 saved by the windfarm operating, is offset by the destruction caused by its installation."


Lyn Jenkins from Gwbert near Cardigan says Wales has more than its fair share of wind farms:

"England is 50,320sq miles and they have hardly started putting wind turbines there yet! Wales has only 5 per cent of UK population and, at 8015 sq miles, only 8.48 per cent of UK land area. Therefore why does it have about 40 per cent of UK wind turbines, whilst the land of the "chattering classes", ie the south and midlands of England, has next to nothing? The turbines coming to the Welsh mountains will now be 400 feet high. They will number 500! When are the 50 million people of England going to get their rightful share of wind turbines? Does the wind stop at Offa's Dyke? Wales has had enough!"


Rod from Abergavenny joins the debate sharing his concerns about global warming:

"While a lot of anti-wind farm letters show a commendable concern for the protection of local landscapes and ecosystems, they seem to have little or no appreciation of the disasters that will be brought by global warming. Replacement of fossil-fuel energy sources is urgently needed. Nuclear power is not the answer. The chances of catastrophic accidents through human error, of September 11th-type terrorist strikes on nuclear plants, and of the proliferation of nuclear weapons, would increase fatally were nuclear technology to spread further round the world. Therefore, hope for our planet lies only in swift development of renewable energy sources, for which there is a huge potential in the UK."


Scott from Ammanford thinks there is no perfect alternative to the energy problem:

"I think wind farms look great. I don't think they detract from the beauty of Wales at all. They are clean and unwasteful. The small mindedness of some people's 'not in my back yard' views is what will eventually be the end of our country - not windfarms. There is no 'perfect' alternative and only with a combination of a reduction in energy usage as well as a dramatic increase in renewable energy can we continue to further our civilisation. The people who moan about effeciency should ask whether the MPG their car uses is effecient? Unless you are a net-contributer of power I think you should keep quiet; your using it and there's no gain without pain! 'Tough' is my one word answer to these moaning-mid-wales people."


Duncan from Machynlleth supports the creation of windfarms:

"I wholeheartedly support the creation of windfarms, both onshore and offshore. They are a clean and efficient source of energy and go some way to reducing our emissions of greenhouse gases. I understand people's objection to man-made structures in the landscape, but I prefer the idea of clean energy and a habitable World! The way the world is currently going there will be no landscape to worry about in Britain, and many already hot parts of the world will be completely uninhabitable. Is that an alternative we can even consider?"


Jenna from Aberystwyth says we should be proud of our country's wind farms:

"I am a GCSE student and at school in Aberystwyth, and I can strongly say that these new windfarms are a real asset to our community today. I have personally been walking up in this area before the (Cefn Croes) site was opened and they truly are so elegant, especially up close. They do not create much noise, a common misconception today. I believe there are other 'clean' energy options such as tidal or even under the sea currents, which we can look into as well. However why waste the wind which we in Wales have been 'blessed' with. We have the chance to really change the way Wales works and hopefully save our futures from the horrors we shall otherwise encounter, which to be very honest, I do not want to grow up in. Please think about how these windfarms are making the most of our climate to create the greatest country we can be, be proud we have these resources and can use them to their full, be proud to be modernising Wales!"


John from Blaina suggests looking at other options, such as tidal energy:

"Windfarms are not the great white knight on a charger. They are large, obtrusive and not very efficent. The output is small compared to the size. The Netherlands tried them and they were wrong. We have a tidal system in Wales which is regular - yes, that's right, twice a day, every day. The Severn estuary rises and falls. The wind only blows now and then. Why aren't we using the energy stored here in the sea and it would probably be hidden under water. Blaina is fighting against a wind farm on the mountain here - a mountaion that is not safe and is also very beautiful. There must be another way. Nuclear is not a nice thought but at least its reliable. Find a better solution is the answer - not Wind Farms."


Lynwen Evans thinks the more we depend on wind farms the more likely is a switch to nuclear power:

"If people think that these wind farms are going to save the planet they are dreaming. The more we depend on these wind farms, the more chances are, that we will have to rely on nuclear power. (It looks like it's too late already. They are now suggesting nuclear stations in the UK). Why ruin our countryside for carbunkles that don't even produce enough electricity to shut one single power station down? Denmark is the leading country for windfarms and they have been erecting them for over 30 years, but not one single power station has been shut. This is what living in Mid Wales is like. This is what Wales, the Welsh and in-comers have to put up with."


Alun Richards from Swansea draws a comparison between wind farms and power stations:

"It is not realised how big the latest wind turbines are - they are as tall as many TV transmitters. Nor is it realised how small is their output. It would take several thousand of the largest yet planned to match the output of one modern power station. Nor is it realised the mileage of roads and cabling required in addition to the towers themselves. Nor is it realised that windpower developers are paid around three times the going rate for what they do produce, yet they pay no compensation for the noise and disturbance they create. Besides all this, wind turbines create virtually no employment, almost all the materials come from abroad and unlike ordinary power stations they are unmanned."


Ellyn Harries from Ammanford says wind energy isn't the answer:

"Wind turbines do not work. They produce a tiny amount of electricity and that is only when the wind is blowing 20% of the time. Electricity cannot be stored so what do you do in the meantime? Turbines only exist because of huge subsidies from our electric bills. They are built on pure greed plus thousands of tons of concrete and horrendous environmental damage. They will not cure global warming and do not lower CO2 emmissions. No local jobs are created. They kill our beloved kites - the symbol of our country. When will "greenies" understand this? Everyone has been so greenwashed by hideous propoganda. Germany and Denmark have realised their huge mistake. Tidal energy is the future."


Matt from Epson draws a comparison with Belgium:

"I don't think that the wind turbines are an eyesore at all, and show a stark contrast between the rural areas they are in and the amazing technological feats that have been acheived. Surely the land is better used for that than to be built on for expansion of our towns and cities. Also, in Belgium, wind energy is a key player in their electricity supply and when driving in their country, the structures make you look in awe rather than being worried about the possible visual pollution."


Jenny Keal from Builth Wells says we should be referring to factories not farms:

"It is misleading to describe industrialisation of our uplands as 'farming'. Wind Farms should more properly be called wind factories. If you think they are not an environmental disaster, take a look at the photographs of Cefn Croes in West Wales where the whole mountainside has been destroyed with huge access roads, giant pits filled with concrete to hold the steel towers, miles of new pylons to join to the national grid. Do I need to go on? If this was saving carbon emission then perhaps we would have to suffer them but they can never save the planet from global warming because of the intermittent nature of their supply which means conventional power has to be kept running to back up the wind factories when the wind is not blowing - or when it blows to hard. It is obvious to everyone but the deliberately obtuse or those who stand to gain financially that this is a huge scam and our beautiful landscape will be sacrificed to the greed of big business and a pathetic government who have no ethics whatsoever."


Duncan from Aberystwyth sent this in reply to claims as to the inefficiency of wind power:

"Windfarms are not inefficient and in many people's opinion are also not a blight on the scenery. Do you understand the Nuclear Power industry at all? This supposedly cheap electricity leaves us with mountains of hazardous waste that we then have to store for centuries. This is a great worry for the future and is unsustainable."


Eddie Ward from Llandrindod Wells says wind turbines are a waste of money:

"It has been proved that wind turbines are useless and inefficient the government knows this, and their reasons for promoting them is political. I suggest that those in favour of wind energy use only wind energy. That will bring home the true efficiency of these money wasting objects."


Sam from Cardiff considers the beauty of the wind turbine:

"Wind turbines in Wales do generate a significant quantity of electricity - comparable to a small nuclear power plant. I actually think they are magnificent structures that only complement the beauty of the Welsh landscape. Perhaps the rather small-minded people who complain about the visual appearance of wind farms should instead focus their ire on the genuinely untidy sprawl of power lines, mobile phone masts and ugly modern farm buildings that continue to spread across the countryside."


Lesley Rice from Machynlleth says windfarms offer a solution to global warming:

"If we continue to use fossil fuels to generate our energy, it is certain that our climate will change with devastating effects. Species will be wiped out, we'll be more prone to flooding, which means less land for a growing population, added to which fossil fuels will run out. It's a frightening and very real prospect.

Wind turbines are the best solution at the moment as they are the most developed of the renewable energies. The point is, any energy generated by wind is not contributing to global warming, and burning fossil fuels is. Which one are you going to choose? Chief Scientific Advisor, Professor David King has stated that, 'climate change is a far greater threat to the world than international terrorism'. What choice do we have? We've identified the problem - that global warming is caused by the burning of fossil fuels - and identified a solution. It is ridiculous to obstruct the building of wind farms purely based on some people's perception that they are ugly."


Pete from Los Angeles has no faith in windfarms:

"They are so inefficient, a blight on the scenery and a big scam perpetrated by the environmental whackos. There is no cheaper source of electricity than nuclear power stations, which are way safer than the type used in Chernobyl. Get with it folks!"


Steve from Manchester doesn't have a problem with windfarms :

"From what I've seen, wind energy has changed greatly over the last twenty years. At first it was only just paying for itself, but now they only take about 6 years of their 20 to 30 year life to pay back the investment and maintenance costs. The wind turbines look fine to me, although a bit of low key individualised painting of each turbine on the low parts of the turbine could add interest and improve aesthetics. I enjoy trips to Cornwall and the wind turbines do not look out of place. As for the variability of generation as wind speed changes, just think how the supply system copes with the fact that the UK needs twice as much power in the day as it does in the middle of the night. The power stations adjust their output to match the amount required, so they could increase output when the wind generator output is low."


Laura from Chester says turbines are a tourist attraction:

"Many people have said that no way wind farms are a tourist attraction well our school travels for two hours on a smelly coach to see the windfarms in midwales and they have been going ever since they where built we then stayed i the local area and looked at our environmental sites windfarms only add to Wales when global warming really kicks in you'll savour these turbines and their clean energy."


Helen Hampson from Northwich says transporting wind turbines can cause problems:

"Having travelled on the A483 and A487 to and from Llangrannog four times over the last six weeks (August 2004), each time we have passed convoys of lorries carrying sections of wind turbines.

I am given to understand that they are a British invention, but apparently these tubes are built in Denmark and imported through Eastham.

They are a great idea, but has anybody given a thought to the increase in pollutiuon caused by the exhaust fumes from the miles and miles of traffic following them on a hot summer Sunday afternoon."


Chris Pickard from Bwlch y Cibau in Montgomeryshire loooks ahead to the future:

"Being a countryman, and having spent all of my life in the country, I feel that wind farms are a great step forward in renewable energy. Most probably not in our lifetime, will the true impact of our energy resorces running low, will start to impact on our lives. Beats tall coal fired chimneys, and burning fossil fuels, so only can be a good thing, We need work closely with the local comunity to gain a sense of the comuminty producing local power for their homes."


A Evans from Brecon says there are better ways than windfarms of producing energy:

"Windfarms are hopelessly inefficent of producing energy. They are merely a sop to pacify the green lobby. Better to develop tidal energy and considering the predicted energy shortfall, keep the fossil fuel option open whilst also developing safe nuclear reactors. If this present policy continues, we will be forced to import electricity from mainland Europe generated by fossil and nuclear providers."


Jean Patmore from Llandrindod Wells is not a windfarms fan:

"Ugly blot on our welsh hills, unecessary - site them if they must out in the sea"


Lisa from Painscastle says windfarms are a blot on the landscape :

"There are a couple of suggestions that windfarms could be tourist attractions. What absolute drivel. Yes if there was only one in the uk it might be an attraction. However when they cover Wales in them the Tourists will simply go to other beautiful places - probably abroad. To destroy one of Wales's best assets to line the pockets of a few business men is an absolute disgrace."


Malcolm Owen from Manchester says:

"Wind turbines have been present in many European countries for many years now. People have benefitted from the energy they produce and they're 'clean' to operate. Ugly yes, but they said that about 'innovative' machines during the industrial revoloution. So who'd turn the clock back to then.....only the romantic luddites I suspect...Nimbys just need any old cause to vent their spleen - isn't this progress we're seeing..."


Stephen Smith from Welshpool raises this question:

"All the nay sayers don't come up with other ideas of how to generate power. In 30 years time or so when the oil runs out, what will we do then?"


Andy Parnell from the Yes2wind Wales Network emailed us after the go-ahead was given to the Mynydd y Clogau windfarm near Newtown:

"I am glad and overjoyed to see that a new windfarm in Powys will be built! The Yes2wind network here in Mid Wales is overjoyed and this is a huge victory for pro-wind campaigners who have been at the forefront of countering ridiculous claims and nonsense from anti-wind campaigners in the area.

Mynydd Y Clogau, the latest windfarm in Powys, is set to build 17 new windturbines in July this year and that's another 17 new victories for the climate. Its set to power 8,700 homes in Wales and reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 32,700 tons!

This has got to be better than relying upon nuclear power like Trawsfynydd nuclear power station before it closed down and Wylfa nuclear power station on Anglesey, which, had to be taken offline for 6 weeks last year and for a staggering 1.5 years before that (how's that for intermittancy!). It's a real victory for Wales and Mid Wales in particular."

  • The story was covered by BBC News Online in May 2004.

    Paul Vivash from Abersytwyth feels that the existence of the Red Kite in Mid Wales is being threatened by a windfarm :

    "After all the efforts to re-establish the Red Kite in this part of Wales, it is now to be threatened by a monstrous wind farm at Cefn Croes. No public consultation was permitted before the go-ahead was given to this threat to the ecology of the area."


    James from Rhayader has emailed us to say :

    "To residents that dislike wind turbines - please remember to disconnect your home from the electricity supply. It is wholly hypocritical to oppose the wind turbines and then go home and watch tv, log on to the internet, wash your clothes, light your house with power that they provide. Would you prefer it if they were removed and replaced with a conventional power plant in Mid-Wales? Maybe a nice nuclear reactor would be preferable to live next to? Totally renewable, sustainable energy sources are hard to come by, sooner or later you will have to accept these methods of producing power. I for one hardly notice the turbines any more, when I do I am happy that there is less pollution in our skies because of them."


    Bones from Salem, Penrhyncoch has no problem with windfarms :

    "I live right across from the Mynydd Gorddu wind farm - no probs - or would you prefer a Sellafield Nucleur Plant there - spoil the countryside - no way - if they are proven in 25 yrs no use then take them down - at least there won't be hundreds of yrs decommissioning to do. If you feel that strongly about them either move away or don't visit. Tourism - what about farming - diversify there told and when they do people start whinging."


    Felicity Martin from Rhayader feels that the turbines ruin a beautiful landscape.

    "Wind turbines are terrible, monstrous things that contribute next to no energy and destroy the Welsh landscape - its one great asset."


    Michael Jones from Penparcau, Aberystwyth feels he may have a solution :

    "Instead of putting them ugly towers on the hills, why can't they put turbine on the cliff edges, there must be a way as there is always an updraught coming off the sea, or am I being too simplistic?"


    Gena Davies from Brecon says some areas seem to get more than their fair share of windfarms.

    "I am not against windfarms on principal but the majority seem to be situated in the formerly unspoiled countryside of mid wales while equally windy and isolated hill tops in formerly industrial South Wales have very few. Surely they could be more equally distributed. I also think that water power is underused. There are many weirs and sites of old water mills throughout Wales which could be used for generating electricity."


    George from Builth Wells says that the turbines ruin a beautiful landscape.

    "I think that Wind farms are uneconomical and visually polluting."


    Steph from Ashford poses a question to those opposed to wind farms.

    "I think that the wind farms are a great idea. They use a renewable source to make electricity and they're not that ugly - quite interresting actually. Those who say they do not generate enough energy, well the more wind farms we build, the more we can generate. Would you prefer a wind farm in "your back yard " or a nuclear power station? Answer that!"


    Matt Williams from Hay-on-Wye says wind farms will ruin the Mid Wales landscape:

    "The Cambrian mountains are one of the most beautiful places in the world - they should be a national park. Unfortunately they are about to be completely destroyed by wind turbines. These are pointless industrialisation carried out by companies that simply want to make money through government subsidies. Anyone who supports these things needs to look at the facts. They produce a small amount of unreliable electricty that will not replace any power stations. This is because wind is intermmitent, we still need another power source at all times. No one is listening to any reasoned argument and these things are being pushed through by public apathy and people who do not care about the environment...This madness must stop now. "


    Tom Penny from Brecon says those who are opposed to windfarms display a 'not in my back yard' attitude.

    "Wind power offers us a viable alternative to the continued lack of long term sustainable planning in our patterns of life. Nobody wants to live near a power station but the opinions of so many people who condemn wind turbines are simply engaging in NIMBY attitudes, do the people of Trwsfynydd or Didcot power stations want it there?? No but if we wish to have the high levels of consumption, which most people do, then power must be generated somewhere!

    Just get over your self-inflated attitudes with regard to power generators being built near you homes!! This is the price of a society that wants high levels of consumption and which requires electricity and other forms of energy at a moment's notice!"


    Jonathan from Bridge of Weir says he likes the look of wind farms:

    "I visit my parents in Brecon regularly and enjoy seeing the wind turbines on the way down.

    Surely when people object to wind turbines up on the hills, they'd soon change their mind if they wanted to build a gas or coal fired power plant next to their town or village!"


    Mr D Germain from Llandrindod Wells says windfarms have many advantages.

    "I don't know why there are so many objections to wind farms. I find them quite beautiful and think they enhance the landscape. Even if I didn't, we certainly need all the renewable energy we can provide, not only here but all over the world, if we are not to leave an ecological disaster for those that come after us.

    They are already having trouble with decommissioning the nuclear reactors that we have now. And do you remember Chernobyl, which caused contamination in North Wales? Erecting more windfarms must be better than waiting for a recurrence of such events."


    Mike from Newtown says wind farms could be a tourist attraction:

    "I am all for the use of windfarms. They are clean energy. I notice a lot of people have said that the windfarms are a blot on the landscape and bad for tourism. I disagree. I like seeing these amazing large structures. Let's instead make a feature and turn them a tourist attraction. I would encourage lots of different designs and colours make them in to architectural marvels and curiosities, so people from miles around will come and look at them. This will open up the countryside to people who would not travel to these places normally."


    Austin from Lampeter says he's concerned about a particular development in the Cambrian Mountains.

    "While I approve of alternative energy sources, and have nothing against wind farms in general, I'm very disappointed (although not surprised) that the latest proposals for 165 400-foot turbines in one of the most unspoilt areas of the Cambrian Mountains near Strata Florida are not to be the subject of any official public enquiry. There are plenty of places where the natural scenery has already been spoiled which would be equally suited to windfarms. The area of the proposed Camddwr farm has no access roads big enough for all the traffic which would be essential for its construction, so much work would be needed to lay bigger roads, which in themselves would blight the landscape. There are relatively few areas of the countryside which are as untouched by man as this area, and It seems a shame to me to destroy yet another.

    What would be more to the point, rather than erecting windmills on every available hill in the land, would be more development of water power. This country has one of the highest rainfalls around, let's use the stuff... and water power, to a large extent, can be built underground and have far less visual impact. I applaud, in this context, the installation of the generators at Llyn Brianne dam."


    Glyn from Aberystwyth says finding alternative ways of generating electricity is a must.

    "The problems created by increasingly high electricity usage can't be ignored, and I'm afraid that society will have to become used to windfarms. We can't ignore the situation any longer, especially now that nuclear power is part of the scrapheap of history."


    Peter from Oswestry says there needs to be more research into windfarms and raises a point about their cost.

    "Wind Turbine Farms (WTFs) do produce electricity in line with the Government's plans for reducing emmisions; however, the capital costs are high as are maintenance costs - each unit is "lifed" at about 15 to 20 years. WTFs are heavily subsidised and this subsidy cannot last forever so perhaps we will pay more in the end? Certainly insufficient debate and investigation has gone into WTFs as is the case in greater Europe where this type of power source is very common."

    S Matthews from Swansea says the countryside should be kept clear of wind turbines and suggests alternative locations.

    "They should be put in areas already spoiled by pylons and giant fuel oil containers. These are usually on the outskirts of cities and towns. That way we keep all the eyesores together and leave plenty of countryside to be enjoyed by tourists and still achieve green fuel targets."



    Trevor from Aberystwyth: "Part of Wales' future economic growth will be in tourism. Tourists who want walk in an unspoiled hills. Wind farms are not the way to promote this. They should be offshore, or even better we should be looking at wave and tidal power, where there is much more potential."



    Dean Codgen from Roanoke, VA, USA: "From a non-resident view, I see the wind farms in Wales or any other place on Earth as very progressive and 21st Century. I would travel out of my way several miles to see and experience these wind turbines. Keep up the 'clean' work."


    Richard Lewis from Newtown:"There is nothing wrong with wind farms in an area which then benefit that area. But when the power is going somewhere else, much like the water from Elan valley, why should Mid Wales be ruined to provide for cities in England?"

    Llyr from Aberystwyth: "Given the choice between the erection of a new nuclear power station in the beautiful hills and mountains of Ceredigion or the erection of windmills, I would definitely favour the latter. People who complain that they are an eyesore and that they harm tourism should seriously reconsider their standpoint. Has anyone passed the Trawsfynydd power station and seen it as an attractive part of the Welsh landscape? I very much doubt it. However when driving past any windfarm my co-passengers and I always comment on how amazing and incredible the windmills actually are in real life. The change to windpower should not be regarded as a backward step nor a negative step, it is a positive move forward, showing that Wales can promote cleaner energy production ahead of many other regions within the UK and Europe. It is about time that we use this to our advantage. People want to see how windmills look and work - there is a clear tourism opportunity here, if people want to tour nuclear power stations, I am sure that they will want to visit rural Wales to observe our windfarms. Why can we not look to the future for once and use development for our own good?"

    Daniel Morris from Machynlleth takes a different view: "Further building of windfarms on our precious contryside will cause great economic damage and permanently ruin our beautiful landscape. It is absolute drivel to compare wind farms with Nuclear Power Stations in this context as no new nuclear power stations are being planned for this area. We do not need them here thank you very much."



    Mrs Marshall, from Pennal:"I object to the use of too many windmills in rural Wales because they spoil the landscape, but I don't object to the use of windfarms in principle. Care needs to be taken about where their location."



    Raymond Jones, from Machynlleth: "I think that windfarms should be put off shore if possible."



    Amanda Green, from Machynlleth: "I love them. I think they are an inspiration. I hate nuclear power and by using our resources it is only logical to have something simple as a windmill to create energy."



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