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Milton Keynes Dons Football Club

MK Dons

Dons decision deferred

The saga of the MK Dons Supporters Association's application to join the Football Supporters' Federation has taken a new turn.

The National Council of the Football Supporters Federation (FSF) have decided that MK Dons supporters will have to wait until June this year to find out whether they will be accepted into the organisation.

The MK Dons Supporters Association's (MKDSA) application to join the FSF caused heated discussion when it was put before the FSF's regional branch last November, and now, the National Council has recommended that the decision should be deferred to the organisation's National Conference in June, rather than be made at the National Council level.

In addition, the resolution that will be put to the Conference, recommends that the MKDSA shouldn't be allowed into the FSF until the Football League gives assurances that what happened to Wimbledon won't happen to any other club.

Recommendation

The Chairman of the FSF, Malcom Clarke, told us what the National Council were recommending. He also wanted to make clear that this was only a recommendation and even if it was passed by Conference, they would be willing to reconsider if things changed in the future.

MK Dons Stadium - start

"The National Council is recommending to the Conference that the Milton Keynes Supporters Association are not admitted at this time" he said.

"But the resolution also says that if and when the football authorities pass regulations to prevent this kind of thing happening again, then the FSF would be very willing to reconsider an application from Milton Keynes.

"If the Conference accepts our resolution, which of course it may not do - because we're a democratic organisation - then what we're saying is that once the door has been bolted to make sure that this can never happen again, then we would be very willing to reconsider - but I stress it will be entirely up to the Conference to decide what action to take.

"The National Council has decided to refer the decision to our annual conference in June because it's thought appropriate that an important decision of this kind should be made by the sovereign body where all affiliates and members will have a chance to participate" he added.

Welcome

He also said that the MKDSA would be able to put their case forward in person at the Conference.

"The invitation has gone to them to say that if they want to turn up and make their case in person then they will be extremely welcome" he revealed.

What the FSF are concerned about is that so far, the football authorities have done nothing to stop another club being moved lock, stock and barrel to another town and it would therefore send out the wrong message if the MK Dons supporters were allowed into the FSF, because it would look like they had drawn a line under the whole episode.

"I think the concern of the National Council is that until the rules have been changed to prevent this happening again, it would send out the wrong message to the football world in general if we simply drew a line under it at this stage" he said.

"Many people feel that all of the people in Milton Keynes, whether they are supporters, Mr Winkleman or anybody else who wanted a football league club in Milton Keynes should have put their energy behind taking Milton Keynes City up through the whole of the football pyramid as other clubs have tried to do.

"And effectively, to steal somebody else's League team, which is what happened, is not the right way to go about it" he added.

MK Dons fan

"I think that many members of the National Council also felt that we've got something of a duty of care to the valued members of the organisation who have fought football franchising and have suffered directly from it .... and that the time is not right to draw a line under it until we're sure that this can never happen again.

"But that's just our recommendation. Conference may decide to do something different."

Move on

Malcolm did accept that the time may come to put it all behind them, but the Football League do need to act first.

"I think many of us do accept that there may come a point when it's appropriate just to draw a line under this and move on" he revealed.

"But what I cannot understand for the life of me is why the football authorities haven't altered the regulations to make sure that this can never happen again because in fact, both the FA and the Football League were opposed to this."

He also conceded that to a certain extent, their argument lay with those authorities and not entirely with the supporters of the MK Dons, who are in many respects, no different to anyone else.

Members of the Milton Keynes Dons Supporters Association will wonder why, as fans who spend money to watch their team play, they may be excluded from joining a democratic organisation that represents supporters everywhere.

"We hope that the Milton Keynes supporters will help us to make those arguments [against franchise football] but the concern of many members of our National Council is until [the rules have] changed - what kind of message does this send out and how can we be sure that Mr Winkleman won't use this - as he's used other things - as part of the propaganda for what he's done?" said Malcolm.

Fair

But because of the controversy surrounding the move of Wimbledon FC to Milton Keynes and the subsequent name change to the Milton Keynes Dons, any issue to do with the club now causes mass discussion and emotions run high. So does Malcolm think that the MKDSA will get a fair hearing?

"Our Conference isn't always as predictable as it appears" he said. "I'm sure that all of the delegates there will be listening very attentively to everything that is said on both sides of this argument.

"Certainly if the MKDSA decide to attend and present their case I'm sure that the Conference delates will listen very closely to what they've got to say."

Difficult

The General Secretary of MKDSA John Brockwell says that while they would like to join the FSF, if they can't, they will still go about putting their point of view forward to the relevant authorities, although it will be difficult.

"It's very strange how they're advocating that we as a group, as a supporters body, can basically help them campaign against our club being allowed to exist" he said. "I think that's going to be extremely hard to be honest.

"I think they are somewhat missing the point really. They are a football supporters federation set up to help football supporters.

"But the route we're taking is - if they are blocking us at the moment, then fine" he continued.

"We'll talk to the government departments directly as opposed to going through the FSF and adding our weight behind them. We're still getting our voice heard in the right departments. Phyllis Starkey is helping us tremendously in the House of Commons."

He feels that it is now time for everybody to move on, to learn from this episode and teach each other as well.

"Football is here in Milton Keynes and it's here to stay. Let's get on with it" he said.

"There are more and more clubs that are coming round, and bodies that are coming round to seeing what we are actually doing in Milton Keynes and the good things that are happening.

"There are things that they can learn from us because we're having to do it the hard way without anyone actually saying here's the road map, here's how you do it. We're literally having to invent things as we go along.

"They're putting this to their conference in June and hopefully most of the conference will actually have the common sense to see through it" he added.

Tired

MK Dons Chairman Pete Winkleman said he was getting very tired of all the same old arguments.

"As time goes on we can see the benefits and the joys that football is bringing to Milton Keynes" he said.

"It gets ever more tiresome and boring to hear the same old arguments raised" he said.

"We never invented Wimbledon moving - they were off to Dublin in 1997, they were off to Belfast, and they were off to Cardiff in the late 90s. They were even off to Milton Keynes around that time as well.

"I don't forget that the supporters never got involved with the club when it got into trouble and we did" he continued.

"We took those risks. We moved heaven and earth to make sure we could get the club to the Hockey Stadium. We worked with all the national bodies to be able to make sure that was possible for the people of Milton Keynes.

"I'm bored with people pointing the finger at us. We're the most successful new city over the past 30 years and we can't continue to grow and be the great place to live, work and play that we want it to be if we hadn't got professional football and I'm proud that the Dons have a future here in Milton Keynes."

Tribute

He also paid tribute to the fans and hoped that they could be represented.

"We need to have our supporters involved" he said. "We are very fortunate with the Dons now, we have a very pro-active group of supporters. They have a lot of events and they have worked very closely with our political representatives to make sure that our voice is heard.

"I think there's a huge amount of help that the football supporters organisations - and there are several of them - could give to help our embryonic football supporting people in Milton Keynes. I think it would be a short term tragedy if it wasn't the case that they were there to help.

"It is only time that will heal" he continued. "And it's time where we've got to show the credibility of our football club in Milton Keynes over the next 10, 20 or 50 years and what I'm very encouraged by is the ever growing army of people, and a lot of young people, going to our games who are seeing exciting League football on their doorstep.

"I know we're good for football, I know football needs Milton Keynes and I know that we will be there to pay our dues over the next few years and earn our right."

Listen to the full interviews with Malcolm Clarke, John Brockwell and Pete Winkleman using the links on the right.

last updated: 20/04/05

Have Your Say

Mike Levins
Isn't it amazing just how often MK Dons fans turn something so negative into a positive. Not only content with believing that stealing another Town's Football Club because they could not be bothered to support their local side and work for years to achieve League status like others is good they now actually believe they avoided relegation as a result of the Club's own efforts. The reality? They only avoided relegation because Wrexham were "docked" 10 points as a result of going into Administration.

Richard Oliver
The supporters assocation has not become a franchise and never will be. Let the club stand or fall by the football played on the park. The Dons could not have a future in SW19 and now they have great future!

Paul
August 8th aint that far away...come on you Dons!

sue
I live in Milton Keynes and have just started supporting the MK Dons this season. I have been to every home match. I am sick and tired of everyone putting our team down. They have achieved League One survival this season and have a good team and bunch of players to build with. The manager has turned it around to what started off as a bad season. But I still had faith all the way along. Wimbledon could not carry on as they were so Pete Winkleman rescued them. That is such a bad thing to do!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think bringing football to MK has been brilliant. It certainly brightens my weekend up. All I have to say is Come on you dons and do was is right for the future of this football team.

Paul
Er, in the end the final decision was taken by the FA, based on the findings of the independent panel. The FA looked at their findings and either had two choices 1) to accept it or 2) to not accept it...it's that simple Selwyn, don't make out that the FA had washed their hands of this and not taken the final decision, only the FA have the power to allow things like this to happen.

Selwyn Rice
Paul - no it wasn't 'passed by the Football Association'. They abdicated their responsibility and let a three man panel do their dirty work for them while they shamefully wrung their hands. MK Dons, white and gold kit, new badge, 2004 on their logo, new fanbase, 70 miles from South London. A 'continuation' of Wimbledon FC ? Dream on....

Paul
7,359 people were at the hockey stadium to see the MK Dons fight to stay in league one. With a goal 5 mins from time and Torquay losing, the MK Dons survive relegation, much to the annoyance of what it seems is most of the country...but never mind. Not everyone in Europe sees the MK Dons as an illegitimate football club, AFC Wimbledon is not the continuation of Wimbledon FC, AFC is a new club. The decision was taken to rename the club, but to keep a link to the past with adding "Dons". People can complain and whinge and poke fingers, but in the end...in the end it was passed by the football association.

Marcel de Vries
everyone in Europe recognizes AFC Wimbledon as the continuation of Wimbledon FC. Everyone considers MK Dons an illegitemate football league club since they were handed Wimbledon FC's league place in 2002. What played at Selhurst in 2002/3 and in MK ever since is a new club that was allowed to skip the normal promotion process. Let's just say I don't like mr. Winkleman.

Paul
Oh har-de-har-de-har!! The humour is just too much for me to take!!

Dave Lucas
"To a sad Franchise bar steward and a slight football team" However I may have mis-heard the word *slight* and Mr Wilson may not, in fact, be employed serving alcohol :-)

Leo Markham
I'm having trouble remembering a song. Can anyone help ? It starts "Cheer up Danny Wilson...oh what can it mean " Could someone supply the next couple of lines...

John O'Mara
"I know football needs Milton Keynes" says Winkleman. Yes Pete, like a dog needs fleas....

Paul
Cheers Wes for your invaluable comments!

Wes
Yes Paul, Wimbledon should have been left alone to die, the fans would then have started and supported a new club... just like they have and MK fans couldn't/wouldn't. And "rationale" means reasoning - ask Pete Winkleman to steal you a dictionary.

Alan Pinkney
Roger - how about we move your son's team 70 miles south and you can console him with the fact that it's been saved ? Then he and his friends can get together to play locally again and be told that it's "not in the best interests of football." What d'you reckon ??

Brian
I have been involved with local football for the past twenty years. Never did come across Mr Winkleman.What has he done at grass roots level in Milton Keynes. If he wanted football so badly in MK why did he not develop MK city then we would all have been proud of our team. It is scandelous a business consortium can move any football team 70 Miles. I also believe there is a hidden agenda for the stadium that will show personal financial benefits to Mr Winkleman. Fingers crossed for relegation!

Martin Drake
Paul, as someone who lived through it, I can tell you that your research is pitiful. The low average at Selhurst Park in 2002-03 was *precisely* because the club had received the FA and FL's permission to move to MK. We set up AFC Wimbledon in May 2002 and 3,000+ fans supported that. Your 800 figure is also from that year when all decent Wimbledon boycotted the MK-headed franchise still playing at Selhurst Park. Wimbldedon *do* hold the record for the lowest Premiership attendance 3,000-odd against Sheff Wed and/or Everton, but that was in the early 90s shortly after the club had begun to share at SP and when football support generally was lower.

Paul
Just found the following: "Despite being given permission to relocate to Milton Keynes, Wimbledon were still playing at Selhurst Park and their plans for a new stadium in the Denbigh area of the Buckinghamshire new town were yet to be approved. The club's average attendance for 2002–03 was less than 3,000, the third lowest of all the 92 league clubs. But Stuart Murdoch's team was still able to secure a respectable 10th place finish in Division One and the strike partnership of Neil Shipperley and David Connolly managed a total of almost 50 goals between them." Taken from http://www.answers.com/topic/milton-keynes-dons-f-c Obviously if someone could confirm or refute this with another web reference I would be interested to read it.

Paul
Ok, maybe I am worng, Wimbedon Fc should've been left to fold up and dissapear then if thats your "rationale" Wes...in actual fact even when Wimbledon moved to MK, they were only seven days from being wound up because of the two year deadline. I read a news item when Wimbledon were still in the premiership when the attendance was around 800...I believe you'll find that its the lowest recorded attendance for a premiership match.

Cliff
Wimbledon never had less home fans than a non-league side. Yes, we could not always fill Selhurst Park so one stand was quite often left empty and that stand happened to be the one that faced the TV cameras. However, AFC Wimbledon, as a non-league side, do get more home fans than the Franchise.

Sydney Black
Perhaps Paul could show me where WIMBLEDON FC (who you 'saved' remember) are in League One, with those traditional blue shirts, double-headed eagle badge, terrace songs about South London and regular visits from its former players... ?

Roger
Whats in the past is in the past let everybody learn from the mistakes and move on...... My son who is 10 years old loves following the Dons and has changed from a arm chair Man Utd fan to a can we get a season ticket next year Dad Dons fan..... This interest has got him playing in a local Team... He dosnt understand the History behind the club... Just enjoys his footy... Isnt that what its all about?

Matthew Breach
As time goes on we can see the benefits and the joys that football is bringing to Milton Keynes" he said. What about the Benefits and joys that you stole from me and my community then?

Wes
Hopeless arguments Paul. Club football is about community, not other towns "saving" a club/franchise by moving it away. Using your rationale, should we be applauding the Chinese for saving Rover?

Slim
Paul, Wimbledon were averaging 8000 fans when the move was allowed. Does that mean every team with less than 8000 fans should be allowed to move? If so, that would apply most teams in the country.

Tom, Luton
Paul, the reason the stands at Selhurst Park were so empty was because the Wimbledon fans were doing the only thing they could do to stop their club moving to Milton Keynes - deprive it of income. Luton fans did the same in the close season two years ago to oust an equally obnoxious chairman, but thankfully in our case we were successful. If Wimbledon tried to stay in London but couldn't survive on their gate receipts they would have done what all other clubs have done in the same position - drop down the leagues until they found their level, regroup and start to climb back up again.

Paul
Personally? Nope. And like most in MK I supported another team in the country, not Man Utd, but Nottingham Forest (I know..the dialema of where to sit if Forest come to play here next season?!). No one was sure if it would work with bringing another league club to Milton Keynes and giving it a home. People could have not turned up, voting with their feet, but people did and gave it their support. Of course football needs business backing and money, something MK City didn't have and I'm sure if it was MK City @ the Hockey Stadium , they would have recieved as much support as MK Dons do now.

Ray
Paul - no, you didn't save a club from extinction, you saved it's FOOTBALL LEAGUE PLACE for your own ends. Were you a Milton Keynes City fan three years ago (when they needed you) ? You didn't save them from extinction did you ??

Paul
Would it be the fact that away tickets for the Luton game were £17.50? £2.50 more than for away fans visiting the Hockey Stadium? and the information given that Luton advised strongly that away fans came by coach? adding another £7 to the cost... I do object Charles that you say that my fellow fans "haven't got a clue" though, it could have all gone wrong, MK people could have not turned up, not taken the club in, but we did. I can still remember seeing highlights of when Wimbledon played at Selhurst Park, with practically empty stands, getting less home fans than a non-league side, no club could survive on that kind of income. So, in administration, being told that Plough Lane would not be up to the then football league regulations, they relocate to Milton Keynes and now on average we get gates of 5,000...the people of MK could have said "no thanks", but we didn't. I do wish AFC Wimbledon all the best of luck and welcome their back-2-back promotions.

Charles St Hubbins
Does 3CR really have to dredge up this 'story' again? I appreciate they would probably like the MKDon's franchise eradicated from the area ASAP, and can fully sympathise with those sentiments. But doesn't all this MK bashing in the comments entries risk fostering a bunker style attitude among franchise fans? They probably think that's what being a football fan is all about - some might have had Boys Own tales by the Brimson Bros read to them. Their following at Luton on Saturday was pitiful, in so many ways. So lets not be too tough on them, they clearly haven't got a clue. They're just a little band of unfortunate folk looking for a stone - or a concrete cow - to crawl under.

Paul
We did not steal Wimbledon Malcolm Clark, we gave it a new home, else it would have been wound up and closed down, so change the record please, it's boring. I'm fed up with the whingers moaning and complaining, we saved a club from extinction and as Pete says, Wimbledon were looking at moving to other places before turning up at the hockey stadium. Let this national supporters association get off its high horse and stop being so snobbish.

Digger
'Time will heal' says Peter Winkleman. Not in South West London it won't ....

Marc Jones
Peter Winkleman's claims the fans never got involved are farcical and insulting in the extreme. How then did the Wimbledon Independent Supporters Association tour SW London along with then-Chairman (and facilitator to the franchise) Charles Koppel and David Burns of the Football league and manage to present a feasible and workable stadium design for the Plough Lane site? Winkleman's grasp on history is shaky at best and downright deceitful at worst. His claim to have saved Wimbledon and not just taken a shortcut to obtain a "professional" club is shown to be exactly what it is by the documented approaches to both Luton Town and QPR before finding a suitable club that was willing to ignore it's supporters and dance with the franchise devil. The man has no shame. Thankfully the FSF members have more dignity than he will ever muster.

Lee Whyatt
The man is clearly talking s**t. Milton Keynes has absolutely no right to a football club other than the non league club that went bust because Pete (footy saviour) Winkleman wanted nothing to do with. Maybe he should have concentrated on getting them up the pyramid just as the good people of Wimbledon did for a hundred years before he came along and ruined football forever.

Martin Drake
Wimbledon fans were a very pro-active group of supporters who loved watching exciting League football and were never given the chance to get involved when the club got "in trouble" once Pete Winkelman moved the club to Milton Keynes in order to build a big ASDA supermarket that would not have been normally allowed.

Harry
Someone should tell Mr Winkleman that Milton Keynes is not a city

Tom, Luton
Sorry, no. Why on earth does football need MK? And Mr Winkleman is getting bored by the same old arguments? Shame! The arguments will not go away because they are still valid arguments - MK has deprived another community of a part of their heritage and it is wrong, wrong, wrong. If Wimbledon FC had folded in London, AFC Wimbledon would have been its phoenix, with all the history, heritage and support that the old club had achieved. Instead, Wimbledon FC died in Milton Keynes and another entity, called MK Dons, wrapped themselves up with the dead club's past glories. I have nothing against the town of Milton Keynes; I use its shops and theatre and have often considered moving there. But there isn't a word strong enough for what I feel for MK Dons; contempt doesn't come close. Simple question - how many of this 'ever growing army of people' that Mr Winkleman mentions would start and support their own team, as AFC Wimbledon have done, if Franchise FC ever collapsed or moved on to even greener pastures?

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