Champions League - including Man Utd & Man City

Live text commentary as Manchester City win at Bayern Munich and Manchester United defeat Shakhtar in the Champions League.

10 December 2013 Last updated at 18:25

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As it happened

  1. 2228: 

    That's it for one night in the Champions League then.

    We'll be back tomorrow night, see you all there.

    Oh, and before I forget, it was Guy Ipoua! [See 1921]...

  2. 2225: 
    MANAGER REACTION- Bayern Munich 2-3 Man City

    Bayern Munich boss Pep Guardiola: "Against teams like Manchester City, this can always happen. We have to accept this defeat and understand how this can happen against these teams."

  3. 2219: 
    MANAGER REACTION- Man Utd 1-0 Shakhtar

    Manchester United manager David Moyes: "I think we could be classed as one of the favourites, but we'll have to improve if we're to keep progressing in the Champions League."

    Big. He's gone big.

  4. 2214: 
    MANAGER REACTION- Bayern Munich 2-3 Man City

    Manchester City boss Manuel Pellegrini on whether the result will have a positive effect on the season: "I hope it will. I know that we didn't have results in Premier League playing away but we haven't played badly in those games so we must continue finding a style of play and this match could be very important for us."

  5. 2212: 

    Manchester City host Arsenal on Saturday afternoon and Manuel Pellegrini's decision to rest a host of first-choice players could yet pay off. Arsenal - who are not yet through don't forget - do not have that luxury in Naples tomorrow night.

  6. 2209: 
    MANAGER REACTION- Bayern Munich 2-3 Man City

    Manchester City boss Manuel Pellegrini: "We wanted revenge for the first game (which Bayern won 3-1) and to show it was not that different between Bayern and our team.

    "To win here and score three goals without Vincent Kompany, Yaya Toure, Alvaro Negredo and Sergio Aguero shows we have a very good squad also, so it's a very important victory."

    Join the debate at #bbcfootball

    Femi Ayo: English teams have found Germany a good hunting ground this year. Arsenal, United, Chelsea, City all won in Germany.

    Kahill: Finally all English clubs have beaten German clubs on their own turf. Who says the English Premier League isn't the best?

    Femi Longe: So, does James Milner get to partner Yaya Toure in central midfield against Arsenal? Every team needs a James Milner.


    Manchester City captain Vincent Kompany: Massive from the boys today! Gave the travelling fans a hell of a game! Bayern 2, City 3!

  9. 2203: 
    MANAGER REACTION- Bayern Munich 2-3 Man City

    Manuel Pellegrini on whether he was tempted to bring on Sergio Aguero: "I was tempted if we scored the fourth goal, that is why I sent him to warm-up.

    "But I think it was a risk to continue with David Silva, he could not play more than 70 minutes. It was important to be top of group but not the most important thing. We scored two goals and Silva had to come off after 70 minutes."

  10. 2158: 
    LUNCH DATE- Galatasaray 0-0 Juventus

    Uefa confirm that the match between Galatasaray and Juventus will resume at 1200 GMT tomorrow afternoon. A midday date for us and around 58 minutes of action to be played.


    Infostrada Sports: Real Madrid set an all-time record in European competitions by netting in 31 successive matches. #UCL Surpass Barca's mark of 30.

    Join the debate at #bbcfootball

    Chris Harvey: Results like tonight surely prove how much Mancini was out of his depth for City, especially in Europe.

    Ben Johnson: For all those who doubted James Milner's ability. Eat your pessimistic negative hateful words.

    Simon Levy: That's why Milner needs to go to the World Cup. Never say die attitude and doesn't gets the credit he deserves.

  13. 2153: 
    MANAGER REACTION- Man Utd 1-0 Shakhtar

    Manchester United boss David Moyes: "We wanted to top the group and we have. The win helps us, improves our form. We didn't play well for 30 minutes and they had two or three opportunities. In the second half it was much better.

    "I was tough with them at half-time but we needed to be, we need to win games. A club like Manchester United has to be trying to win the trophy, that's their job. You have to get better as the tournament goes on. It's a tough competition, a hard one but we will take it one game at a time."


    Opta Joe: 3 - Manchester City have won all three of their away CL matches this season; having lost five of their previous six (W1). Experience.

  15. 2149: 
    PLAYER REACTION- Bayern Munich 2-3 Man City
    James Milner

    Manchester City's match winner James Milner: "It says a lot of about the dressing room. It was a sloppy start from us and they looked like they would run away with it, but to come back and win it shows how much character there is in the dressing room."

  16. 2148: 
    Text us on 81111

    Faraaz in Birmingham, via text: Solid win for Moyes, clean sheet, nice goal, slight confidence boost..

    Tom in Manchester, via text: A weakened Man City team come back from 2 goals down to beat Bayern Munich at their home. Sends out a message to all of the teams! City score 15 points in the group. Would never have achieved that under Mancini!

    Akalpa, a United fan, via text: 1-0 win. A trait of United old. Still a lot of things to work out and fix but it is just nice to win one. Top of the group with a solid group stage performance.

    Owen in Cardiff, via text: Come on then pundits, let's hear the praise for City now our League Cup side have beaten Bayern's first team and our youth team have knocked theirs out of the U19s Champions League. If it was the other way round there would be no end to the praise for Bayern/ German football as a whole.


    Former England striker Michael Owen: How can City win all 3 of their away games in the Champions League yet don't even look like winning away from home in The Premier League?

  18. 2148: 
    THE LAST 16

    Who has booked their place into the last 16 of the Champions League?

    Group winners:

    Manchester United

    Real Madrid

    Paris St-Germain

    Bayern Munich

    Atletico Madrid


    Bayer Leverkusen

    Juventus OR Galatasaray (match expected to be replayed on Wednesday)


    Manchester City

    Barcelona and Chelsea have also qualified but have not yet won their groups

    Join the debate at #bbcfootball

    Adam Momoniat: Fantastic win for Man City. Should give them massive confidence in the same way that beating Bayern did for Arsenal last season.

    Mark Reynolds: City notch up 15 points out of 18 in a Champions' League group after beating Bayern 3-2 away from home. Superb.

    Dilan: Credit to City from a United fan. That's an impressive win they've picked up tonight. Pleased with our 2nd half performance.

  20. 2144: 
    Javier Saviola

    Olympiakos qualify from Group C after finally scoring a penalty, having missed twice from the spot earlier in the evening.

    Alejandro Dominguez's injury-time penalty makes it 3-1 against Anderlecht to send the Greek side into the knockout stages behind group leaders Paris St-Germain.

    PSG lose 2-1 to Benfica, who have to settle for a place in the Europa League.

    In Group B, Real Madrid beat Copenhagen 2-0 as they qualify in first, but Galatasaray and Juventus still have to play for second spot after their match is abandoned this evening due to snow.

  21. 2143: 
    PLAYER REACTION- Man Utd 1-0 Shakhtar

    Manchester United goalscorer Phil Jones: "At half-time the manager just told us to pass the ball better. We know we've had a disappointing couple of weeks and we hope that we can kick on from this now. We needed the win, but the fans were excellent tonight.

    "I've played in a variety of positions, I've always said that I see myself as a centre-back but as long as I'm playing for Manchester United I don't care."

  22. 2141: 
    FULL-TIME STATS- Bayern Munich 2-3 Man City
    Bayern v City

    We posed the question earlier of whether Manchester City would be able to hurt Bayern Munich without having too much of the ball and they did that - scoring half of their shots on target.

  23. 2139:  
    BBC Radio 5 live summariser Kevin Kilbane in MunichBayern Munich 2-3 Man City

    "I think City were inspired in the second half by James Milner. It has been a superb performance by Manchester City especially in the second half. A lot of these players probably won't start on Saturday but they have put in a excellent display and beaten arguably the best team in Europe."

  24. 2137: 
    Bayern Munich 2-3 Man City

    Bayern Munich had won every single home game since Arsenal won there 2-0 back in March. Superb fightback from Manchester City, particularly a City side without Sergio Aguero, Vincent Kompany and Yaya Toure...

  25. 2135: 
    FULL-TIME- Bayern Munich 2-3 Man City

    What a fightback from Manchester City! But it's Bayern Munich who top Group D.

  26. 2133: 

    Olympiakos are still on course for qualification but they could have made life easier for themselves after missing two second-half penalties.

    Two-goal Javier Saviola missed from the spot earlier in the half before former Bolton man Vladimir Weiss also misses from penalty spot as they remain 2-1 up against Anderlecht.

    Should Anderlecht level, Benfica would qualify in their place in Group C as they lead group leaders Paris St Germain 2-1.

    Elsewhere Cristiano Ronaldo misses from the spot against Copenhagen, with Real Madrid leading 2-0.

  27. 2133: 
    FULL-TIME- Man Utd 1-0 Shakhtar

    Manchester United win Group A.

  28. 2131: 
    CLOSE!- Man Utd 1-0 Shakhtar

    Robin van Persie to seal it - no! Wonderful attempt as he lofts a chip over the head of Andriy Pyatov but he puts it wide. Tight angle, great touch.

  29. 2129: 
    Man Utd 1-0 Shakhtar
    Phil Jones (right) celebrates scoring for Manchester United

    Wayne Rooney seeing out the last few minutes in an anchor role in midfield, popping off short passes and rotating the play around nicely. A glimpse into the future perhaps?

    Into the last minute and all looking comfortable for David Moyes.

    Text us on 81111

    Joefrom Haywards Heath, via text: I agree Scott from Newcastle! Most United fans have not got a clue! Most of them never been to Manchester! Moyes will come good, just need to give him time!

    Glen in Kent, via text: Is that a bandwagon I hear going past? One minute United are awful, a goal goes in the next and they're the best thing since sliced bread!

    Ali in Newcastle, via text: Why so much discussion about a small club from the North West?

  31. 2126: 

    Into the last five minutes. Old Trafford is buoyant, the Allianz is nervy for Manchester City fans and players alike. Joe Hart comes out to punch away a dipping free-kick and Bayern sub Xherdan Shaqiri wastes the loose ball.

  32. 2124: 
    Join the debate at #bbcfootball

    Jamie Smith: WOW! What a game unfolding in Munich. Come on City! Great comeback so far...

    Mathew Thorley: even if City don't win the game from here they can take so much from this performance into the knockout stages. Great comeback.

    Andrew Latimer: Ironic really: City with a shocking away record in the Premier League, but possibly about to beat Bayern.

    Tom Holmes: Looks like tonight is turning into the James Milner show. What a goal and what a performance.

  33. 2122: 
    GREAT SAVE!- Bayern Munich 2-3 Man City

    Chance for City to win the group! Substitute Alvaro Negredo is in after another Dante lapse, but the big defender - who has had a shocker this evening - is bailed out by goalkeeper Manuel Neuer, who makes a very good save indeed!

    Into the last 10...

  34. 2120: 

    Cristiano Ronaldo set a new record for goals in the Champions League group stage with his strike for Real Madrid at FC Copenhagen.

    Ronaldo gave Madrid a 2-0 lead early in the second half and now has nine goals in the competition

    The Portuguese previously shared the record of eight in a group stage with Hernan Crespo, Ruud van Nistelrooy, Filippo Inzaghi and Zlatan Ibrahimovic.

  35. 2119: 
    SUBSTITUTION- Bayern Munich 2-3 Man City

    As Kevin Kilbane rightly says, David Silva was terrific tonight on his return from a calf injury but he is off now, with Alvaro Negredo on in his place. Will we see Silva against Arsenal at the weekend? Yes.

  36. 2119: 

    Cambridge United's on-loan striker Kwesi Appiah continues to terrorise the Macclesfield defence but the Crystal Palace man has yet to add to his brace in the first half.

    Fifth-placed Grimsby remain a goal behind against Welling, while Josh Walker's low drive has put Gateshead in front against Lincoln. Woking take the lead against play-off contenders Kidderminster thanks to Scott Rendell's goal.


    Opta Joe: 3 - Bayern Munich had conceded just three goals in their previous 10 Champions League matches before tonight. Breached.

  38. 2117:  
    BBC Radio 5 live summariser Kevin Kilbane in MunichBayern Munich 2-3 Man City

    "David Silva has had a really good game, he is the one who got City back into this game. His movement and passing has been tremendous, after being out injured but it is the right decision to take him off to make sure he is ready for the weekend."

    You can listen to full match commentary on BBC Radio 5 live and online.

  39. 2116: 
    Man Utd 1-0 Shakhtar

    Into the last 15 minutes and that goal may have taken the sting out of Shakhtar, who have not threatened since falling behind. Robin van Persie has added plenty of poise up top and Tom Cleverley has also raised the tempo in midfield.


    Manchester City striker John Guidetti: What a great comeback whoooop whoooop.

  41. 2113: 
    Bayern Munich 2-3 Man City

    One more goal for Manchester City and they will top Group D. With 20 minutes left City continue to come forward.

  42. 2112: 
    Javier Saviola

    Benfica are in second-place in Group C momentarily after Nicolas Gaitan fires them 2-1 ahead against the group winner Paris St Germain.

    But, almost before they stop celebrating, Javier Saviola grabs his second for Olympiakos to put his side 2-1 up against Anderlecht to put the Greeks back into a qualification position.

    Olympiakos will reach the last 16 if they beat Anderlecht at home, but if they fail to win then Benfica will snatch second spot if they beat PSG at home - likewise a point will do for Benfica if Olympiakos lose.

  43. 2110: 
    Text us on 81111

    Scott a Newcastle fan via text: Dear Man Utd fans, you have already qualified for the knockout stages. If Moyes played a full strength team tonight you would question why considering the League form. How about you give YOUR manager and YOUR players a break for a bit.

    Rob in Newbury, via text: Personally, I don't think United have been bad at all - and I think Jones has played well.

    Paul in London, via text: All these people moaning about Giggs and Jones in the middle - what the same partnership from United's 5-0 victory at an impressive Leverkusen?

  44. 2110: 
    Man Utd 1-0 Shakhtar

    That goal from Phil Jones could be a real tonic for Manchester United. They didn't need to win tonight, but a defeat would have done them no favours whatsoever. Just over 20 minutes remaining to build on this lead then.

  45. 2108: 
    GOAL- Man Utd 1-0 Shakhtar - Phil Jones (67 mins)

    The Stretford End erupts! Manchester United score at home as Robin van Persie's corner is half cleared, Phil Jones reacts first to lash it in on the half-volley from 12 yards out. Low and hard, fine strike.

  46. 2107:  
    BBC Radio 5 live summariser Kevin Kilbane in MunichBayern Munich 2-3 Man City

    "Milner has been brilliant in this second half and what a superb finish. The angle was against him but he has played it across the goal and managed to score. He has been the difference in this second half and City are really on the front foot now."

    You can listen to full match commentary on BBC Radio 5 live and online.

  47. 2105: 
    GOAL- Bayern Munich 2-3 Man City - James Milner (62 mins)

    Goodness me! Whoever saw this fightback coming? Slack defending again from Bayern as Jerome Boateng completely misses a low cross from Jesus Navas, but James Milner has plenty to do. He does it brilliantly too, opening up his body to curl in a low shot from the left of the area, right into the far corner. A fine goal!

  48. 2105:  
    BBC Radio 5 live summariser Kevin Kilbane in MunichBayern Munich 2-2 Man City

    "A really good penalty from Kolarov. There have been some really positive signs from City in this second half, they haven't allowed Bayern to control the game as they did in the first half. I thought City were sitting back and allowing Bayern to play but they look more positive now and James Milner has had a great game so far.

    You can listen to full match commentary on BBC Radio 5 live and online.

  49. 2104: 
    SUBSTITUTION- Man Utd 0-0 Shakhtar

    Huge cheers from the Old Trafford crowd as Ashley Young and Ryan Giggs are replaced by Tom Cleverley and Robin van Persie. Young has been at the heart of most of United's's play but he has also missed the two best chances.

  50. 2102:  
    Alistair Bruce-Ball, BBC Radio 5 live at Old TraffordMan Utd 0-0 Shakhtar

    "We are watching a pretty desperate performance by United here at Old Trafford. Shakhtar need to score now with the news that Leverkusen are winning but Manchester United are poor so far. "

  51. 2101: 
    GOAL- Bayern Munich 2-2 Man City - Aleksandar Kolarov (Pen 59 mins)
    Manchester City celebrate scoring against Bayern Munich

    Captain for the evening, Aleksandar Kolarov steps up to confidently plant the penalty into the corner. Two more and City will win this group...

  52. 2100: 
    PENALTY TO CITY- Bayern Munich 2-1 Man City

    Dante leaves a leg in on James Milner who goes down - penalty!

  53. 2058: 
    GREAT SAVE!- Man Utd 0-0 Shakhtar

    Again Ashley Young is involved for Manchester United, running on to Wayne Rooney's lay-off and crossing early, Shinji Kagawa flies in at the near post with a high boot which forces Andriy Pyatov to make a save. Young then swirls over a cross which almost finds its way into the top corner.

    Half an hour remaining of the Champions League group stages...

  54. 2057: 
    Man Utd 0-0 Shakhtar

    Shakhtar need a goal, and a win, to go through as it stands and I wouldn't put it past them. Not by a long way. They continue to look the more fluent side in attack, though Robin van Persie is warming up for the Premier League champions.

  55. 2055: 
    Cristiano Ronaldo

    Can anyone stop Cristiano Ronaldo?

    The former Manchester United has just put Real Madrid 2-0 up against Copenhagen in Group B. That is his ninth goal in this season's group stages.

    And Leverkusen now lead against Sociedad, which means the German side are going through behind Manchester United as it stands. Will that message get through to the Shakhtar players?

    Text us on 81111

    Rob, via text: As an Arsenal fan I have so much respect for Ryan Giggs and what he has done in the Premier League, but to see him start any match and having players running past him makes me feel uncomfortable. Moyes cant rely on a 40-year-old week in week out. Giggs is a squad player.

    Ryan Bryers, via text: Come on Shakhtar, score and win the game to support my diabolical plan to install a proper manager at United.

    Adam in Edinburgh, via text: Ashley Young can't even do the most basic of things these days and get a corner past the near post. He is useless!

  57. 2053: 
    CLOSE!- Bayern Munich 2-1 Man City

    City go close - Edin Dzeko thumps in a shot from David Silva's neat cut-back but Manuel Neuer makes the save.

  58. 2052: 
    Man Utd 0-0 Shakhtar

    It's a real open game now - Douglas Costa is played in on goal after Phil Jones loses the ball in a dangerous area, but the Brazilian produces a complete air-kick and the danger has gone.

  59. 2050: 
    GREAT SAVE!- Man Utd 0-0 Shakhtar

    Ashley Young has his critics but he's gone closest to goal for United tonight. He whips in a free-kick to the back post and Andriy Pyatov has to help it over the top.

    Young then finds Ryan Giggs inside the area but he can't tee up a waiting Wayne Rooney.

  60. 2049: 
    Join the debate at #bbcfootball

    Lewis Breslin: It isn't Moyes' fault how the players perform on the pitch, players like Giggs Rooney and Ferdinand need to step up their game.

    Pinda Mann: Ashley Young should be nowhere near the United matchday squad! We are getting overrun in midfield because Giggs is not 30 anymore!

    Mr Jacobs: Embarrassing first half by Man U. Playing a centre back and a 40-year-old in the engine room renders attacking selections void.

    Andy Eeles: Ashley Young must be incredible during training sessions because it is beyond belief how he keeps getting picked.

    MATCH ABANDONED- Galatasaray 0-0 Juventus
    Groundsmen try to clear the pitch

    That's it, game off in Istanbul. When will they replay this one?

  62. 2048: 
    KICK-OFF- Bayern Munich 2-1 Man City

    Back under way in Munich too...

  63. 2047: 
    HITS THE WOODWORK- Man Utd 0-0 Shakhtar

    Great block! Rafael makes a flying stop to prevent Vyacheslav Shevchuk from slamming in. Then, from the corner Yaroslav Rakitskiy scuffs a shot against the base of the post...

  64. 2045: 
    KICK-OFF- Man Utd 0-0 Shakhtar

    David Moyes waves to the Stretford End as he emerges for the second half. Can his side turn it up a notch?

  65. 2045: 
    Galatasaray 0-0 Juventus

    Still no update from Istanbul, where about four groundsmen are sweeping away at the lines after a heavy snow and hail storm.

    They are still clearly planning on resuming the match at some stage but, as the players now emerge from their dressing room to watch the pitch-clearing, play remains suspended for the time being.

    The snow appears to have stopped falling and, with the lines being painted orange, we should be playing again soon.


    Opta Joe: 7 - Shakhtar have always scored against English opposition in the Champions League (seven games). Ominous.

  67. 2038: 

    Things suddenly don't look quite so rosy for Olympiakos.

    Just a few minutes ago, they seemed to be sailing into the next round, now two goals in the space of a couple of minutes, and Group C is back on a knife edge.

    Sacha Kljestan levels for Anderlecht at Olympiakos, to make it 1-1, while Lima equalises from the penalty spot for Benfica against Paris St Germain.

    A Benfica win will knock the Greeks out, if they fail to win.

  68. 2035: 
    Galatasaray 0-0 Juventus

    The four match officials are in a huddle consulting the pitch - they don't fancy this one. Got a feeling this may go off...

  69. 2035:  
    BBC Radio 5 live summariser Kevin Kilbane in MunichBayern Munich 2-1 Man City

    "It was a wonderful start from Bayern they really went at City. But you have to say it was two poor goals for City and it took them a long time to get back into the game. The goal came and City have had chances but Bayern do look very good tonight."

    You can listen to full match commentary on BBC Radio 5 live and online.

  70. 2034: 
    HALF-TIME- Bayern Munich 2-1 Man City

    Alistair Magowan reports: "Manchester City endured a nightmare opening 15 minutes and at that stage it was a question of how many goals Bayern would score. But the introduction of Pablo Zabaleta, in place of the injured Micah Richards, has coincided with an improved display by the visitors and the game is evenly balanced now."

  71. 2034: 
    Galatasaray 0-0 Juventus

    The officials are waiting in the tunnel at Galatasaray as the lines get cleared by some frantic groundsmen. The snow looks to be getting heavier though as play remains suspended.

  72. 2033: 

    As things stand, Manchester United will top Group A with this point, while Manchester City will face a top seed in the last 16 as Bayern Munich win Group D.

  73. 2032: 
    HALF-TIME- Bayern Munich 2-1 Man City
  74. 2031: 
    HALF-TIME- Man Utd 0-0 Shakhtar

    Saj Chowdhury reports: "Even though Shakhtar Donetsk are chasing a win to guarantee their place in the knockout stages, they look far more composed than United. The home side's best chances came following errors by the opposition. The natives are restless."

  75. 2031: 

    Former Argentina striker Javier Saviola puts Olympiakos on target for qualification after giving the Greek side the lead against Anderlecht.

    Their hopes are boosted further by Edinson Cavani putting Paris St-Germain 1-0 ahead at Benfica.

    If Olympiakos fail to win then Benfica will snatch second spot in Group C if they beat PSG at home - likewise a point will do for Benfica if Olympiakos lose, but at the moment it looks plain sailing for the Greeks.

  76. 2030: 
    HALF-TIME- Man Utd 0-0 Shakhtar
  77. 2029: 
    CLOSE!- Man Utd 0-0 Shakhtar

    Ashley Young again! He's in on the left wing after a good ball from Wayne Rooney but with the defence steaming across he shanks his left-footed effort wide. David Moyes slaps his thigh like a panto villain but he won't be pleased with this matinee-style performance...

  78. 2028: 
    GREAT SAVE!- Bayern Munich 2-1 Man City

    Top stuff from Joe Hart this time - spreading himself big to save at the feet of Mario Gotze after a smart ball from Franck Ribery.

  79. 2026: 
    Man Utd 0-0 Shakhtar
    Adnan Januzaj in action for Manchester United

    The natives are revolting at Old Trafford. Not happy at all as Phil Jones decides to check back and pass the ball back to his defence. Adnan Januzaj then lifts the spirits with an intrepid run from deep, and the youngster may be their best hope of breaking the deadlock.

    But hang on! Shinji Kagawa finds a clever reverse pass into the feet of Wayne Rooney, he checks inside but is denied by a great tackle from Olexandr Kucher.

  80. 2025: 
    Bayern Munich 2-1 Man City

    It's a pretty even game now, with City much improved since pulling that goal back. Jesus Navas remains a threat for City, pulling the Bayern defence around with his pace.

  81. 2023: 

    Galatasaray and Juventus are still off as the staff try to clear their lines. It doesn't look that bad to me, it's more hail than snow. I played in worse for Delapre Under-13s.

  82. 2023: 
    Join the debate at #bbcfootball

    Andrew Wilson: Buttner and Young playing down the same side feels me with dread.

    Thomas Fiorilli: In the first half hour Shakhtar had 7 shots, united 2. Who's playing at home again?

    Joe Wedgewood: Truly pathetic that Jones and Giggs start in midfield again. Pathetic.

    Joel Sparks: MUFC players look like strangers to each other. There is no fluency in this Man Utd team, no true playmaker. Carrick is missed.

  83. 2022: 
    CLOSE!- Man Utd 0-0 Shakhtar

    Ashley Young must score! No! He latches on to Ryan Giggs' flick over the top, gets there before Darijo Srna and chips it over the head of Andriy Pyatov - but also over the crossbar.

    Wayne Rooney was square if he could have passed. Massive chance.

  84. 2022: 

    Two superb strikes from in-form Kwesi Appiah has given league leaders Cambridge United a 2-0 lead against Macclesfield.

    Elsewhere, Joe Healey has put Welling United ahead against play-off chasing Grimsby, but it remains goalless in Lincoln's home game with Gateshead and Kidderminster's match at Woking.

  85. 2021: 
    MATCH HALTED- Galatasaray 0-0 Juventus

    Incredible scenes in Turkey as the referee calls a halt to the action due to the snow-covered pitch. The players are leaving the pitch with the lines not visible.

    The groundsmen are clearing the surface and play should start again soon enough.

  86. 2021: 
    Join the debate at #bbcfootball

    Sham Gallagher: Even though City's team looks weak. That game looks to be exciting. 3 goals in half an hour. What a game already.

    Russell Moore: Tough for City tonight but Milner will never give up on you. He's been the City star so far.

    Paul Moore: One good thing about this is at least City can't face Bayern in the 2nd round! What a relief.

  87. 2021: 

    Real Madrid may have already won Group B but there are no signs of them letting up as Luka Modric puts them 1-0 up at Copenhagen.

    The former Tottenham man let fly from 20 yards for a stunning opener, leaving Copenhagen's hopes of making the Europa League even slimmer than they were before.

  88. 2019: 
    CLOSE!- Man Utd 0-0 Shakhtar

    Time waits for no man, and Rio Ferdinand is proving it right now. He is caught in possession and then embarrassed for pace by Alex Teixeira, who flashes a ball across the face of goal.

    Moments later another cross from the left deflects off the heels of Ferdinand and flies wide. Shakhtar knocking on the door...

  89. 2018: 
    Join the debate at #bbcfootball

    John Southworth: The big boys will be watching Shakhtar tonight, a lot of exciting young talent on display, Utd chasing shadows.

    Dave Cassells: Moyes should take a look at some of these Shakhtar Brazilian players. They look like good players.

    Robert FC: Skakhtar are not a team you want to play when you're struggling. Ask Di Matteo.

    Roger: United miss Carrick so much and when was the last time there were empty seats for a big European night?

  90. 2017: 
    CLOSE!- Man Utd 0-0 Shakhtar

    Wayne Rooney lines up a free-kick from 25 yards out and is very, very close to an opener! He curls the ball over the wall, it skips of the turf and into the side-netting, with the top tier of the Sir Alex Ferguson stand cheering and thinking it had found the target. Rooney's first real involvement.

  91. 2015:  
    BBC Radio 5 live summariser Kevin Kilbane in MunichBayern Munich 2-1 Man City

    "It's a really good spell for City, they had about 10-15 passes and it was the first time they have really got their foot on the ball. That's what they need to do because they just haven't been putting Bayern under enough pressure."

    You can listen to full match commentary on BBC Radio 5 live and online.

  92. 2015: 
    Galatasaray 0-0 Juventus

    There may not be too much happening on the pitch at Galatasaray but the players are having to contend with some pretty dire weather conditions, as a mixture of hail and snow falls at the Turk Telekom Arena.

    The pitch resembles a white blanket as both sides struggle to impose any control on proceedings. The orange ball is out now as the snow continues to hammer it down.

  93. 2015: 
    Man Utd 0-0 Shakhtar

    Alex Teixeira picks up the ball from just inside the United half, surges forward and beats three men before firing a low shot from 16 yards that is easily saved by David de Gea.

    Donetsk still looking very strong.

  94. 2013: 
    GOAL- Bayern Munich 2-1 Man City - David Silva (28 mins)

    There you go - what did I say? David Silva puts Manchester City back in with a sniff. Jesus Navas puts in an early cross which turns the Bayern defence, James Milner heads it back across goal and Silva is too sharp for Dante, beating him to the bounce to prod in from six yards.


    Don't forget you can debate all the action from tonight's Champions League fixtures and look at the best photos on the BBC Facebook page.

  96. 2011: 
    Bayern Munich 2-0 Man City

    Better, much better from Manchester City as they put a move together of some real quality. David Silva starts it, drifting into space and playing a neat reverse pass to find James Milner. He finds Edin Dzeko, who lays it off to Fernandinho who fires over from 20 yards. Get Silva on the ball.

  97. 2010: 
    Text us on 81111

    Gary in London, via text: Lescott looking like a pub player and Garcia might as well be sitting in my lounge for all he contributes to the City cause.

    Scott a United fan via text: I'm sorry, but I just don't want to see Ashley Young in a United shirt any more. He brings absolutely nothing to the team. Far too many players who run the down the wing, stop! 5 step overs, cross hits the first defender. *cough* Nani, Valencia, Young *cough*.

    Mike from Manchester, via text: Shakhtar are going to score here, they look direct, incisive and pacey. United can't cope.

  98. 2009: 
    Man Utd 0-0 Shakhtar

    Shakhtar continue to turn it up a notch as Douglas Costa puts over a wonderful cross on the run, he beat Phil Jones with a drop of the shoulder and a turn of pace. It's just starting to get a bit tense at Old Trafford...

  99. 2007: 
    Join the debate at #bbcfootball

    Chris Anthony: I hope City get thrashed for picking a weak side tonight. No room for negativity in the Champions League.

    Brent Marrow: Feel sorry for Joe Hart, dropped due to poor form/confidence and now playing CL champs away with 2nd string defence.

    Alex McCormac: You've always got to giggle being a City fan, for better or for worse, brilliant one day, calamitous the next.....

  100. 2007: 

    There are no goals anywhere else in Europe this evening although Juventus almost take a huge step towards the knockout stages in their crucial match at Galatasaray.

    Fernando Llorente pokes the ball inches wide in the first attack of note from either side, with Juventus knowing a draw is enough to see them through and knock the Turks out.

    Didier Drogba is looking busy for the home side, who are backed by a vocal home crowd.

  101. 2005: 
    CLOSE!- Man Utd 0-0 Shakhtar

    Shakhtar continue to threaten with their direct approach, as Douglas Costa speeds in from his station on the right and fires in a shot which skims the side-netting. Minutes earlier David De Gea appeared to catch whatever it is Joe Hart has got, dawdling on the ball on the edge of his area and almost conceding a terrible goal. Luckily he got away with it.

  102. 2004: 
    Join the debate at #bbcfootball

    Adrian Snelling: Januzaj hungry in his first champions league game and Kagawa in his preferred role. That's better Moyes! United for the win!

    Peterwari Soberekon: We surely won't win the Premier League. David Moyes, Please compensate me by lifting this Champions League trophy. Yours, Man Utd Fan.

    Alexander Wood: For me a team that starts a 40 year old no matter how good does not show any ambition. Utd need some young blood, cull the old.


    Former Manchester City midfielder Joey Barton: Man City against Europe's best tonight for me.

  104. 2003: 
    CLOSE!- Man Utd 0-0 Shakhtar

    This lad is one to get excited about - wonderful touch and turn from Adnan Januzaj to control a deflected cross from Rafael, he spins on it superbly and hammers in a shot on his left foot, right at Andriy Pyatov in the Donetsk goal though. Right at him.

  105. 2002: 
    Bayern Munich 2-0 Man City

    A 4-2 win for City wins them the group though doesn't it. No probs...

  106. 2001:  
    BBC Radio 5 live summariser Kevin Kilbane in MunichBayern Munich 2-0 Man City
    Bayern Munich celebrate scoring

    "It is so simple and easy isn't it? It was an easy finish in the end giving Joe Hart no chance. Joleon Lescott has had a poor start to the game so far, he doesn't look up to speed to me. It's been a terrible start, the opening goal came as a shock but City have done nothing to try to get back in the game."

    You can listen to full match commentary on BBC Radio 5 live and online.

  107. 2000: 
    SUBSTITUTION- Bayern Munich 2-0 Man City

    Micah Richards' night is done already. He had a nibble at the back of Franck Ribery a few minutes ago and it looks like he's pinged a hamstring. He's off now anyway, with Pablo Zabaleta on to survey the damage done to the defence.

  108. 1959: 
    CLOSE!- Man Utd 0-0 Shakhtar

    First big moment of the night at Old Trafford! Shakhtar's Alex Teixeira, under pressure from Jonny Evans, only just fails to score his fourth goal of the competition after sliding his angled shot from 16 yards inches past the far post. United were carved open there.

  109. 1957: 
    GOAL- Bayern Munich 2-0 Man City - Mario Gotze (12 mins)

    Good grief. Bayern Munich may be the best club team in the world at the moment but they are even better when you defend like this against them. Terrible from Manchester City as a corner is not dealt with, Mario Mandzukic is given so much time to get a shot away, it falls at the feet of Mario Gotze six yards out and he too has all the time in the world to pick his spot past the exposed Joe Hart.

  110. 1956: 
    HITS THE WOODWORK- Bayern Munich 1-0 Man City

    Dearie me! City all over the shop at the back as Franck Ribery latches on to a mistake from Joleon Lescott and fires in a shot which Joe Hart shovels on to the post.

  111. 1955:  
    BBC Radio 5 live summariser Kevin Kilbane in MunichBayern Munich 1-0 Man City

    "It is a great start by Bayern, they are pressing high up the park and moving the ball so well all over the pitch."

    You can listen to full match commentary on BBC Radio 5 live and online.

  112. 1955: 
    Bayern Munich 1-0 Man City

    That's better from Joe Hart, moving his feet well to shuffle to his left and pouch Dante's header. It's been a sticky start from Hart - and Joleon Lescott.

  113. 1952: 
    Man Utd 0-0 Shakhtar

    Phil Jones plays a one-two and charges into the area but the United midfielder's cross/shot is well blocked and it's an easy gather for goalkeeper Andriy Pyatov. Pretty open game so far at Old Trafford, where the home fans are in tremendous voice.

  114. 1952:  
    BBC Radio 5 live summariser Kevin Kilbane in MunichBayern Munich 1-0 Man City
    Thomas Muller scores for Bayern Munich

    "It was a wonderful ball played forward, no one tracked the run and it really was a tremendous finish past Joe Hart. "

    You can listen to full match commentary on BBC Radio 5 live and online.

  115. 1950: 
    GOAL- Bayern Munich 1-0 Man City - Thomas Muller (5 mins)

    Just like he did at the Etihad, Thomas Muller scores from a long ball over the top! There's nothing smart or clever about it, but it's very effective. Dante looks up on halfway, arrows a long through-pass to Muller, who drifts in from the right-hand side, takes it on his chest and fires in. Easy. Too easy.

  116. 1948: 
    CLOSE!- Bayern Munich 0-0 Man City


    Panic stations in the Manchester City defence as Joe Hart comes off his line, Joleon Lescott has a long, hard look at the England number one and then knocks the backpass past him anyway, forcing Hart to scurry back and watch the ball drift wide of the net.

    Not exactly confidence boosting start...

  117. 1948: 
    Man Utd 0-0 Shakhtar

    David Moyes looks on as the visitors make a bright start, Alex Teixeira weaving through a challenge or two but not able to find a pass.

  118. 1945: 

    And with that, we are under way at Old Trafford and the Allianz Arena...

  119. 1944: 
    Man Utd v Shakhtar (1945 GMT)

    Manchester United manager David Moyes: "The most important thing is to qualify - that part of the job is done, we'll hopefully finish it off tonight.

    "I think the players will react to recent results. These are top players. They are great for me to work with. It's my responsibility. The players are good - there are no worries.

    "Van Persie played 90 minutes - I didn't want to play him for 90 minutes [against Newcastle on Saturday]. I don't want to lose over him over the Christmas period. We didn't want to risk him by starting him tonight."

  120. 1943: 

    Seven players in January? That would be an extraordinary transfer window!

  121. 1943:  
    BBC Radio 5 live summariser Kevin Kilbane in MunichBayern Munich v Man City (1945 GMT)

    "When David Moyes came in he said he will give everyone time and he has done that. Some would argue that he has given some players too much time but I think you will see him sign players in the transfer window, if not in January then the next one, around six or seven, and then you will see his side."

  122. 1941: 

    Here come the players then, Manchester City's players looking lost in the huge, cavernous tunnel area at the Allianz Arena. Can City possibly win by three clear goals?

  123. 1939: 
    Man Utd v Shakhtar (1945 GMT)

    Former Manchester United captain Roy Keane on ITV: "It was a disappointing performance against Newcastle on Saturday. But it's time for cool heads. They need to give manager David Moyes the chance to make a mark over the next year.

    "By stating he would take full responsibility for the recent losses he took the pressure off the players. That was good management. The players will have to take some responsibility too.

    "The recent performances are as a result of a combination of things - [they're getting used to] a new manager, new tactics and new training. Footballers are human beings and take time to adapt."

  124. 1938: 
    Text us on 81111

    We have caught a few of you out with our poser at 19:21, here are just some of the guesses. I can tell you that one of these players mentioned is right.

    Cashy in Bristol, via text: Nathan Ellington and Gerard Wiekens?

    Martin Haines, via text: I think the one on the right is David Busst?

    Aldo from Wishaw, via text: Not sure about blond haired City player, will guess Gary Flitcroft, and Jason Roberts?

  125. 1936: 

    A reminder then of who needs what to top their groups.

    Manchester United will top Group A with a point tonight.

    Shakhtar Donetsk can top the group if they win at Old Trafford.

    Manchester City will finish as Group D winners if they beat Bayern Munich by more than a 3-1 score. Anything else than that and it's Bayern's group.

  126. 1932: 
    Man Utd v Shakhtar (1945 GMT)

    A beaming David Moyes bounces down the steps of the team coach and bounds into the tunnel at Old Trafford. A third home defeat in six days is certainly not on his mind if body language is anything to go by.

    Get an early goal and you can relax Dave...

  127. 1930: 
    Join the debate at #bbcfootball

    Jerry Elumeze: Man U would be in the top 4 if Ferguson was still in charge, so it's going to take more than selling 10 players & buying new ones.

    Mark Hawlor: Man United need to set a definite central defensive pair and buy midfielder in January current midfield not up to job simples!!!!

    Will Smith: Moyes needs to strengthen the centre midfield first off all need a creative player for example Sneijder.

  128. 1928: 

    Fifteen minutes or so until kick-off then, and as usual the Manchester United line-up has not gone down with a lot of you. As for the suggestions for who should go, I reckon David de Gea and Wayne Rooney are about the only safe members of the squad...

  129. 1925: 

    Tens of thousands of South Africans joined dozens of world leaders for a memorial service for former President Nelson Mandela this morning in Johannesburg, and Mandela will be remembered at every Champions League game this week too.

    A 12m-by-2m banner reading 'Madiba, the world will never forget' will be unfurled before every fixture.

  130. 1922: 

    Jeremy Bayes: It's not about whether they're good enough or not, Fellaini as an example, shone at Everton, he clearly can play Premier League football, he just doesn't work well in the side. United were never going to get more than two good seasons out of RVP because he's injury prone, despite his abundance of talent. Kagawa needs more pitch time, as does Januzaj. Evra has invaluable experience but, along with Ferdinand, is no longer the player he was 3/4 seasons ago. Nani has enough ability to be in that side, but isn't clinical or determined 100% of the time.

    Stephen Behan: Anderson, Nani, Young, Welbeck all need to go. They have proven time and time again during games that they are not up for the big time that Manchester United expects of them. We have too many average players in the squad. We need a left winger, a centre half, a central midfield and a striker. At least 4 in and the above 4 to go in my book. Time will tell what Moyes decides to do, but it will be interesting to find out in January.

    Junior Hastings: Too many ordinary players in the squad. Just good premier league players not great. Only two top players in RVP & Rooney. Man United missed a trick and should have appointed Jose, what world stars will be busting a gut to sign for Moyes ?

    Have your say on United's woes on our Facebook page,

  131. 1921: 

    A chocolate biscuit to the first person to identify the two players in that picture - without cheating...

    Manchester City v Bristol Rovers

    Manchester City official account: 15 years ago on Thursday #MCFC played Bristol Rovers at home in the Second Division. We now face the Euro Champions in their own backyard.


    Chelsea defender Ashley Cole, who will return to the starting line-up for Wednesday's match with Steaua: 7 FA Cups, 3 league titles, an undefeated season. I'm still not done.

  134. 1917: 
    MANAGER PREVIEW- Bayern Munich v Man City (1945 GMT)

    Manchester City manager Manuel Pellegrini on whether his side can qualify in top spot: "We will try, at least. We know it's very difficult to beat Bayern 3-0 but in football always things can happen.

    "I think all the team didn't play well against Bayern at home, we conceded three goals, so I'm pretty sure that the players will give another face of the team."

  135. 1916: 
    LINE-UPS- Bayern Munich v Man City (1945 GMT)

    Bayern Munich: Neuer, Lahm, Boateng, Dante, Alaba, Thiago, Muller, Gotze, Kroos, Ribery, Mandzukic. Subs: Starke, Van Buyten, Javi Martinez, Shaqiri, Rafinha, Pizarro, Contento.

    Man City: Hart, Richards, Lescott, Demichelis, Kolarov, Milner, Javi Garcia, Jesus Navas, Silva, Fernandinho, Dzeko. Subs: Pantilimon, Kompany, Zabaleta, Negredo, Aguero, Rodwell, Boyata.

    Referee: David Fernandez Borbalan (Almeria)

  136. 1915: 
    Text us on 81111

    Mr T in Birmingham, via text: It's a disgrace that Giggs keeps playing in that team. This is not the sport for sentiment. Shows how low United have fallen that a 40-year-old ex-winger plays in central midfield for a top club. Scholes was a world class midfielder but he knew when to pack it in. Selfishness from Giggs and Moyes is too scared to not pick him. Shocking.

    Charles in London, via text: Sir Alex never bought in January. Why? The best players are never available. United have got to group together with the current squad and find the best way to win. Then in the summer names like Blaise Matuidi and Ander Herrera can come in.

    Gaz in Leeds, via text: Can we remember its not that easy to buy the 'right' player. If he's that good, there'll be competition if he's even available, and why would the current team sell? Before Moyes is written off, give him time. He does need to clear out the dead wood though. Ashley Young - I'm talking to you.


    Opta Joe: 3 - David De Gea has kept three clean sheets in his last three Champions League games. Sharp.

  138. 1912:  
    BBC Radio 5 live summariser Kevin Kilbane in MunichBayern Munich v Man City (1945 GMT)

    "It looks as though City are going to come out and try and contain Bayern Munich but there is still a lot of talent out there. David Silva coming back is a big plus and I think he is playing tonight with an eye on the weekend, so he can prove his fitness ready for the match with Arsenal."

  139. 1909: 

    So both Manchester clubs are hoping to tie up top spot in their respective groups this evening - but how important is it?

    Well, it could be very important. The eight group winners are seeded for the draw for the last 16 you see, so should City or United finish as runners-up in their groups then they could be looking at a last-16 tie against Paris St-Germain, Real Madrid, Atletico Madrid, Napoli, Dortmund or Barcelona.

    They could however not be drawn against each other - teams from the same country cannot play each other - while City could not face Bayern Munich as teams from the same groups cannot play each other.

    Manchester United could face Bayern though...

  140. 1906: 
    Text us on 81111

    Tibbins in Coventry, via text: January is a massive time for Utd. They should have money after the summer's no show in the window and we're already looking to make up a serious bridge between us and the top sides at the moment. We'll have CL football luckily, but will that be enough to draw in the top players given our current position? A good win tonight would be just the statement we desperately need.

    DH in Worthing, via text: Ferguson took years to bring in the silverware, why should Moyes not have right to do the same? Seems as though too many Man U fans believe they have the right to be in the top 4 and don't need to earn it.

    Jeff, via text: Need to offload Young, Anderson and Macheda at least. Maybe the other bit part players will buck their ideas up then when they realise they could be out of the door!

    There have also been a lot of texts disagreeing with Steve Huish's earlier text calling Tom Cleverley 'world class'.

  141. 1905: 
    Bayern Munich v Man City (1945 GMT)

    Manchester City have one-and-a-half eyes on their weekend clash with Arsenal as they rest seven players tonight. Bayern's side sees a tweak from what we've seen all season as Philipp Lahm goes back to right-back after spending most of the campaign in midfield.

  142. 1904: 
    LINE-UPS- Man Utd v Shakhtar (1945 GMT)

    Man Utd: De Gea, Rafael Da Silva, Ferdinand, Evans, Buttner, Jones, Giggs, Young, Kagawa, Januzaj, Rooney. Subs: Lindegaard, Anderson, Hernandez, Nani, van Persie, Cleverley, Valencia.

    Shakhtar Donetsk: Pyatov, Srna, Kucher, Rakitskiy, Shevchuk, Fred, Stepanenko, Douglas Costa, Alex Teixeira, Taison, Luiz Adriano. Subs: Kanibolotskiy, Hubschman, Bernard, Eduardo, Fernando, Ferreyra, Kryvtsov.

    Referee: Milorad Mazic (Serbia)

  143. 1902: 
    UNSTOPPABLE FORCE- Bayern Munich v Man City (1945 GMT)
    Thomas Muller and Philipp Lahm

    Bayern Munich made it 10 Champions League wins in a row last time out with a 3-1 win in Moscow, and the Bundesliga giants have dominated games so far - averaging 69.3% of possession in the tournament.

    Can you hurt them without the ball? That is the task facing Manchester City this evening.

  144. 1901: 
    Bayern Munich v Man City (1945 GMT)

    Alistair Magowan reports: "Manchester City can become the first team to beat Pep Guardiola's Bayern Munich side this season but they will face a formidable task as their opponents and their Spanish manager continue to break records. Bayern have chalked up a record 10 consecutive Champions League victories and if they win tonight will become only the sixth team to win all six group games."

  145. 1857: 

    Rick Savory: Fellaini was a waste of money. Moyes has got to think & buy big in January. He doesn't manage a mid table club now so why is he looking at old Everton targets?!! This year may be a transitional year for Man Utd. There is a team that's starting to age, but Moyes must take some of the blame for not buying well in the summer when the cash was there.

    Cirus Gorjestani: I'd love to see Moyes do what Sir Alex Ferguson did back in 92. Put faith in the youth with the likes of Januzaj, Powell, Henriquez, Lingard, Zaha and Keane. And sell the under performers like Anderson, Welbeck, Young and Nani. Surround the youth with experienced players. Even if they do lose the youngsters will only improve.

    Gareth Barnes: Personally I would sell/release the following players: Anderson, Nani, Young, Cleverley, Evra, Fletcher. Moyes needs to give youth a chance like Fergie did with the Class of '92 and build the team around the likes of Jones, Rooney, Zaha and Januzaj. He should try and bring in Shaw, Barkley, Lallana, Baines as a starting point.

    Have your say on United's woes on our Facebook page,

  146. 1855: 
    Man Utd v Shakhtar (1945 GMT)

    Manchester United forward Wayne Rooney returns to the starting XI having missed the 1-0 defeat by Newcastle through suspension. He is one of six changes to Saturday's starting XI, with Dutch striker Robin van Persie on the bench.

    Teenage midfielder Adnan Januzaj starts in his first Champions League tie, while Shinji Kagawa also takes his place in midfield having recovered from illness. Ryan Giggs starts again at the age of 40.

  147. 1852: 

    The broadcasters have announced which games they are showing at next summer's World Cup.

    ITV will show the opening match of the tournament between hosts Brazil and Croatia on 12 June, while the BBC start with Spain v Netherlands, a repeat of the 2010 World Cup final on 13 June.

    The BBC will show England's first group match against Italy. ITV will then show England's next two games against Uruguay and Costa Rica. The BBC will have first pick of the round of 16 and semi finals, whilst ITV has first pick of the quarter finals. Both ITV and BBC will show the final.

  148. 1852: 
    Galatasaray v Juventus (1945 GMT)
    Roberto Mancini

    If Galatasaray manager Roberto Mancini is to avoid a third successive Champions League exit at the group stages, his side need to beat in-form Juventus at the Turk Telekom Arena this evening.

    Serie A leaders Juventus have won their last seven league games without conceding a goal and know a draw would be enough to see them through courtesy of their head-to-head superiority over Copenhagen.

    Copenhagen can't finish in the top two but a win or a draw at home to group winners Real Madrid would put them into the Europa League should Mancini's men lose.

    "We have all to play for," said the former Manchester City boss. "We play at home and in a game, anything can happen."

  149. 1849: 
    Text us on 81111

    Lee Evans, via text: Sell Fellaini, no United fan wanted him anyway, break the bank and make Ronaldo the world's most expensive player again! We all know its why he signed an improved contract at Real!

    Ben in Yeovil, via text: Some Man Utd fans need to realise that football doesn't work like Football Manager - you can't just revamp your squad in January!! Clubs aren't going to sell their best players halfway through the season, and who in their right mind would buy the garbage players that you want to offload?! Moyes' stock was at its highest when he first arrived and that's when he should have capitalised and made some proper signings. Man Utd are now in danger of being viewed as a club in decline with an average manager.

    Steve Huish in Surbiton, via text: People forget that this united squad is a very expensive assembled one. £25m RVP, Rooney £30m, Ferdinand £30m, Jones £16m, Carrick £18m, De Gea £20m, Anderson £24m, Fellaini £27m etc I could go on. What's worrying is after 15 years of unparalleled success there's only one world class player come from the youth team since the 92 boys and that's Cleverley. I mean surely United could of found a home grown goal keeper. I just think United have wasted huge amounts of money.

  150. 1848: 
    Man Utd v Shakhtar (1945 GMT)

    Saj Chowdhury reports: "Manchester United and manager David Moyes return to the comforting arms of the Champions League. Three wins, two draws and no losses is an impressive record - if only their league form mirrored it.

    "They produced a competent performance in the first clash in Donetsk and were set for victory until Taison landed a second-half blow. Shakhtar need to win to guarantee qualification and finish top of Group A - expect entertainment."

  151. 1848: 
    BREAKING TEAM NEWS- Man Utd v Shakhtar (1945 GMT)

    Robin van Persie is on the bench for Manchester United, who make six changes from the Newcastle defeat.

    United XI: De Gea; Rafael, Ferdinand, Evans, Buttner; Young, Giggs, Jones, Januzaj; Kagawa, Rooney

  152. 1845: 
    Didier Drogba

    The final round of group games is serving up some dead rubbers, but not as many as you would expect. There is still plenty to play for elsewhere tonight.

    In Group A, Bayer Leverkusen and Shakhtar Donetsk are both hoping to join Manchester United in the last 16.

    Gareth Bale's Real Madrid have sewn up top spot in Group B, while the other qualifiers will come from tonight's showdown between Galatasaray and Juventus.

    Paris St-Germain have won Group C, with Olympiakos and Benfica going for second. The Greek side will qualify if they beat Anderlecht this evening, but Benfica can sneak in if the Belgians take a point.

    Manchester City and Bayern Munich have locked out Group D, with Viktoria Plzen and CSKA Moscow playing for - or possibly to avoid - a Europa League berth,

  153. 1840: 
    Join the debate at #bbcfootball

    Momodu Abdulahi: There are a lot of average players at Man United but SAF made then champions. So Moyes is the problem. Sell him.

    Wil: Young, Anderson & Cleverley MUST go. He needs to focus on central midfielders, Gundogan & Pjanic. Jones to play centre back more.

    Nick Moreland: Fed up with Man U fans assuming they can buy anyone "Clyne, Shaw & Hamsik". They won't be sold to you and they won't want to go.

    Which players do you think have outstayed their Old Trafford welcome?

  154. 1839: 
    David Moyes & Ashley Young

    This was always going to be a 'transitional' season for Manchester United, but those two home defeats in four days have put the spotlight firmly on the current squad.

    An article in the Manchester Evening News today suggests that David Moyes will be busy in the January transfer window, claiming that as many as 10 of the current squad are not up to the job.

    That may be considerably overdoing it, but what do you think? Which of United's current squad are not good enough for the first team? Which players have outstayed their Old Trafford welcomes?

    Who should Moyes be targeting, both in January and next summer? Or is the squad in good shape - they did win the Premier League just a few months ago after all?

    Let us know by texting in to 81111 (UK Only), tweeting using the hashtag #bbcfootball or calling BBC Radio 5 live from 2100 BST on 0500 909 693 (UK Only).

  155. 1837: 
    Bayern Munich v Man City (1945 GMT)
    Joe Hart

    Tonight's other big game sees Manchester City at the home of the defending champions Bayern Munich, where both sides have already secured passage to the last 16.

    Pep Guardiola's Bayern side were simply superb in Manchester back in October, as the Bundesliga rather put the Premier League in its place with a commanding 3-1 win for the Germans. In honesty that scoreline flatters City, who were passed off the park.

    But Manuel Pellegrini's side can still take top spot in Group D. All they need is to win in Munich tonight by a bigger margin than 3-1. So 4-2, 3-0, 7-1 - that sort of thing and City can relax a bit in the draw for the knockout stages.

    Can it be done?

  156. 1835: 
    UNITED THROUGH- Man Utd v Shakhtar (1945 GMT)

    Yep, Shakhtar may think that this is a good time to be heading to Old Trafford but Manchester United have made a habit of laying waste to those sort of ideas in the past.

    Group A

    A draw would be enough for David Moyes to secure top spot in Group A this evening; a place that is very much worth having as it would keep them away from the other group winners in the last 16.

    Shakhtar, meanwhile, will win the group if they win the match - and they can also qualify behind United with a point, depending on the result of Sociedad v Leverkusen.

    BREAKING TEAM NEWS- Bayern Munich v Man City (1945 GMT)

    Bayern Munich make three changes from their last Champions League game, Franck Ribery among those coming back in.

    Manchester City make seven changes from the team which drew with Southampton at the weekend, as Joe Hart, Micah Richards and Joleon Lescott all return.

    Bayern XI: Neuer, Dante, Thiago, Ribery, Mandzukic, Boateng, Gotze, Lahm), Muller, Alaba, Kroos

    City XI: Hart, Kolarov, Lescott, Demichelis, Richards, Fernandinho, Garcia, Milner, Silva, Navas, Dzeko

  158. 1832: 
    Man Utd v Shakhtar (1945 GMT)
    David Moyes

    It's always important not to get to carried away by a few results in this fickle footballing world we inhabit, but it is fair to say that David Moyes and Manchester United have had better weeks.

    Last Wednesday night Moyes saw a section of the travelling support who once worshipped him taunt him as new Everton boss Roberto Martinez guided the Toffees to a famous win.

    And Saturday saw another home defeat - this time Newcastle helping themselves to a first Old Trafford win in 41 years.

    So two games, no goals, two defeats and no points. It's just a good job that United have already qualified from Champions League Group A...

  159. 1830: 
    HOME ALONE?- Man Utd v Shakhtar (1945 GMT)
    Old Trafford

    Three home games in six days - it's a scenario which can pose problems for any football club.

    The groundsman has a headache about how to keep the pitch in top shape; the catering staff fret about keeping the supply of pies and pints coming in; the media department have kittens about programme deadlines and word counts.

    Groundstaff at Old Trafford

    But of course, it's the playing and coaching staff who have the hardest jobs of all and as David Moyes and his Manchester United team make the all-too familiar trip to Old Trafford this evening they could be forgiven for perhaps wishing they were in Ukraine instead.

    Back-to-back home defeats to Everton and Newcastle have heaped the pressure on Moyes ahead of tonight's Donetsk test. Can United end a nightmare week back on top?

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