Scotland's History Debates Lords of the Isles


The Scotland's History online debates are now closed.

We would like to thank everyone who contributed over the two years that they ran and made the debates lively, informative and engaging.

Lords of the Isles

Debate: Did Scotland lose an important part of itself after the Stewarts broke the power of the Lordship of the Isles? Was the Stewarts contribution to Scotland worth the loss?

A history of Scotland's account of the might of the MacDonalds.

A history of Scotland's account of the end of MacDonald influence.


alasdair macdonald, argyll 2010-05-15

the lords never seen themselves as scots,so the question is irrelevant,

Michael Munro, London, UK 2009-12-09

The Lords of the the Isles were rebelious and troublesome. How could the Stewarts hope to rule the country if the Lords did not submit to and support them.

J.W. Steawart, Louisiana USA 2009-07-06

I came across this site while doing a Biblical search of the year 1040 A.D.. I can't watch the video's as they will not play for some reason. I haven't been to Scotland since 1990, and drank my way through 3 years of the four and one half I was in the UK. Wish I'd spent the whole time traveling and meeting more of you kind people...I realy miss the area around Aveimore. We camped there on the 4th of July every year.

Brian Rois, Glaschu, Alba. 2009-02-06

Frank what's that all about bud? That weblink doesn't even work. Typed it in in allsorts of ways i.e. Adding or taking a letter here or there incase the smelling's wrong, oops sorry sPelling! And even reduced the capital M to a small m, as you know most of these addresses don't have capitals halfway through. Well just thought I'd ask if yi put is on a bumsteer Francis? If so why? That's you killed off the delusional character of Francis Jeremiah Dougan. Shining knight & defender of the faith. Tiorraidh!

Mark, Elgin 2009-02-02

Hi Frank, no reply? I'm surprised...

Here's one of the points:

So, was it Burns cousin (as per O'Hagan) or brother (as per you), he begged for money from?

Amy, Inverness 2009-02-01

Really enjoy the programme, disappointed that I was never taught any of this in school and think that should be changed. The battle for power created a huge divide between Highland/Lowland leaving Gaels as outsiders in their own country. I think that the downfall of the MacDonalds played an important part in the beginning of the loss of the heritage and culture of our ancestors. Obviously there are many other factors later on but this division certainly came from the threat they posed to the Stewarts and their reaction to the discovery of deal the MacDonalds and Black Douglas made. Being from Inverness it's a strange one as we were not part of the lands of the MacDonalds - in fact they burnt it to the ground as an act of rebellion! The tv series as well as the radio programmes have been really enjoyable and told in such a way which captures the dark and dramatic history of Scotland. Thanks!

Brian R, Glasgow. 2009-01-31

Thanks Frank, that's the bizz mate! Hopefully they'll send is a right copy of his letter! Did you get the copy? Who did he write to n what for? Well s'pose I'll find out sooner or later, cheers for the connection anyway. Yours for Scotland. Brian Andrew Ross.

Frank J Dougan, Glasgow 2009-01-31

Hi Brian Ross, this is the link to Luebeck Archive in Germany who have the William Wallace letter if you or anyone wants a copy.
eMail persoenlich

Brian Ross, Glasgow. 2009-01-31

To BBC Scot Mod: Is it ok for Frank to text us the Luebeck stuff?
Frank re: 1919 you're talking of the Brits trying to pre-empt a scenario in Sco that could've been akin to the Easter Rising in Ire if folk were minded to do so, however we know after Scotlands population was emaciated (yet again) after being the infantry in nearly every offensive of that war, you can understand at that time if folks minds ruled their hearts. However today folk dont have to draw a sword or a gun..just an 'X' on a voting slip.

-BBC Scotland Moderator-

Hi Brian, if it's a link it's fine.

Frank J Dougan, Glasgow 2009-01-30

To Brian Ross and Moderator. I have the email address of the Luebeck Archive people who will send a copy of the Wallace letter if the moderator will allow it to be posted. Re the tragedy I talk about I don't want to see the same troubles that Ireland has between England and Scotland as these problems could happen and we have had relative peace and remember 1919 when English gov, sent tanks into Glasgow and set up machine guns on the City Chambers. There are wars all over the world constantly. Scotland has had her share and we don't want problems with our neighbours again.

Brian R, Glasgow, Scotland. 2009-01-30

Did yi pay the 14 €uros? If so are yi gonnae grace us wae a swatch at the text? Or di we huv tae pay you 14 €uros an all?

Frank J Dougan, Glasgow 2009-01-29

My campaign to bring home the Wallace letter..
Dear Mr. Dougan,
Thank you for your e-mail and your great interest in the letter of William Wallace. We, indeed, know that this letter is of very great importance for Scottish people. Therefore the Luebeck archives lent it to the National Archives of Scotland in 2005 and it was presented to the public in an exhibition in The Scottish Parliament ("For Freedom Alone", 15 August - 9 September 2005).
This letter was issued by William Wallace and sent to the city of Lübeck. Therefore it belongs to the Hansestadt Lübeck. But also due to international archival requirements it therefore has to remain in the Archives of Lübeck (principle of provenance).
We would like to field your request concerning a digital copy of the Wallace letter. However, due to the ordinance of fees of the Hansestadt Lübeck we have to ask you to remit the amount of 14,00 € in advance. The amount is made up of charge for CD-ROM photographs and postage.

Brian R, Glasgow, Sco. 2009-01-29

Frank you said the Sco, Iri, Eng & Wel proletariat were now so entrenched with eachother that it'd be a tragedy to disassociate from eachother. Really? What "tragedy" would occur say between us & the Eng or Welsh people if we joined the Irish & took a seat next to them in the EU as equal independent European partners? WOW! Wait a minute! Did I just say independent there? But it says in The S-- etc (London media) we canny dae it! Eire with a fraction of
our resources CAN & DID! What tragedies occured there?!

Mark, Elgin 2009-01-29

Frank, I don't know why you're reeling off this stuff as I'm not questioning your journalistic/DJ credentials, although for a journalist your punctuation leads a lot to be desired :)

Lennon was no racist, Burns was not murdered and yes we have football in Elgin (rubbish though it is), it's not contaminated by the bigotry of the Glasgow bullies who exploit and thrive on the strange divisions in the Christian faith. I don't honestly see anything of that nature in my day to day living unless I open the Herald to read about more Glaswegian shennagins.

And as for Henry's daughter, I told you before I am no monarchist and it matters not a jot which one was in charge. The points I made were on Mary alone and her part in her downfall.

Lastly, Edinburgh has been the centre of Scottish power for the majority of Scotland's history so I doubt that would have changed whatever religion was in vogue.

Brian R, Glasgow, (Rep of Sectaria). 2009-01-29

Fitba. The last bastion of sectarianism in "S.West" Sco is the most pointless form of idiocy to be tied up with in Sco today! Anyone picking up these reins, (whether they attack or say they're defending a faith) then as sure as death & taxes they'll reap what they sew! There are some that genuinely stick to the tenets of their faith but I think others use it as a refuge & to find a sense of belonging with others, don't allow old wounds to heal & perpetuate division & their sad & selfish sense of belonging.

Brian R, Glasgow. 2009-01-28

Understand if yi can't obtain any points of ref on Mr.Gibb. Not important, just glad there's no-one that IS known for any of that in the Scots Govt today. Only thing that concerns me today are the MSPs elected by the people to represent us quickly forget about us. EU referendums, holding the country back by blocking budgets to take the focus off their own 12yrs of incompetence etc. Anyway wanted to ask the name of your in-laws as I didn't catch that post, must've been Mark & where did you work as a journo?

Frank J Dougan, Glasgow 2009-01-28

To Mark, Elgin obviously I cannot publish what I write on this site as they seem to not allow publication of anything controversial. However the West of Scotland football stuff only came into being in the 20th century unlike the domination by Edinburgh and the Knoxites from 1550s don't cover up for Lennon if you read his written work nothing to do with good black music which has always been a front runner. Isent a blog to this site about my jounalistic work and DJ world wide career but they did not put it on. Andrew Hagen is only a commentator I have the real facts about Burns from Allan Cunningham who was his friend.Re, West of Scotland football you don't have football in Elgin do you? So you've nothin' to shout about pal. You supported your pal Henry's daughter

Mark, Elgin 2009-01-28

Hey Frank, I don't get (in terms of reference to myself) your ref to Jerusalem Post and Scotland's Oracle and Scotland's Chronicle. As for your Scotland's Shame essay...any chance you can change it to West of Scotland's Shame as it would be more appropriate as we up here have no truck with such nonsense or indeed Stupid West of Scotland Football's Shame

And still no explanation as to why old King Henry V111 was my "pal"...

Brian R, Glasgow. 2009-01-28

Frank, pored over the background of AD Gibb. All I get is he helped found the SNP along with R.B. Cunninghame Graham- (after he & Keir Hardie founded Labour). Other than his involvement with Nationalism (after reneging british unionism) he fought in WW1 for the RSF. Was the Regius Professor of Law 1934-58, Dean of Law Faculty 1937-39 & 1945-47. Etc, etc. I can't find one pointer that the man was anti-semitic, sectarian or racist.
Can you give a point of reference please? PS: Also how was John Lennon racist?

Mark, Elgin 2009-01-28

Frank, I have read (and own) Lennon's book 'A Spanird in the works' but his actions and love of black music seem to confict with anything you've got from his surreal tome. Although as Burns, he had his own hypocrisies as he was a mere mortal for a that.

Watching the recent Burns series by Andrew O'Hagan, again I fail to get even the mereist whiff of any murder including any motives. Indeed he seemed to be playing to the powers that be even in his final years e.g. joining the militia. Again he just seems to have been a typical tragic gifted artist who was unable to control his money and his habits. And one of your facts was incorrect, it was his cousin he wrote to for £10, not his if you slip on that minor detail how accurate are your others?

You're suspicions of the BBC and the gremlins again seem a tad paranoid but from the jist of your last post on the origins of the SNP, I must agree and their reinvention. But I digress as I don't want to go near current politics

Brian R, Glasgow. 2009-01-28

Frank, thought to submit this on Burns' 250th. ~Tae-a-Fart~
Oh wit a sleekit horrible beastie, lurks in yir belly efter a feastie, nae matter wit yi dae, everybodies goni pay, even if yi try tae stifle, it's like a bullet oot a rifle, hod yir bum tight tae the chair, try tae stop the leakin air, shimmy yirsel fae cheek tae cheek, n pray tae God it disni reek, oot it comes like a clap o thunder! Ricochets roond the room, michty me a sonic boom! God Almichty it fairly reeks, hope I huvnae s--t ma breeks!

Frank J Dougan, Glasgow 2009-01-27

To Mark, Elgin, I forgot to mention the Jerusalem Post is Jewish, Scotland's Oracle and Scotland's Chronicle are muslim I was invited to write for them, the Catholic papers need no explaination and the Herald is what it is. Plus i've almost finished 2 manuscripts Scotland's Secret Shame 105,000 words and International DJ just 30,000 words these are on my blog site

Frank J Dougan, Glasgow 2009-01-27

To Brian Ross, and Mark, you can see the name of the family I mention on one of my comments. I have sent an official complaint to the BBC about this so-called gremlin cropping. Yesterday I wrote about the founders and one of the first leaders of the SNP Andrew Dewar Gibb who was anti-Catholic, Irish and Jews. If you read Lennon's book 'A Spanird in the works' you will get my drift of my claims. Strange this site does not publish my true claims. 17.42 I will copy this 27-1-09

-BBC Scotland Moderator-

Hi Frank, we are looking into why this issue is happening. It is an intermittent fault and has affected others on the site too. I assure you no comments are censored, changed or ammended.

Frank J Dougan, Glasgow 2009-01-27

To Mark

-BBC Scotland Moderator-

Apologies, Frank. Another cropped message. We are looking into why this seems to be happening. I'll happily post up if you re-send.

Brian Ross, Glasgow. 2009-01-27

Mark Elgin & Frank G-gow. I do apologise I'm responsible for taking away the history debate
by rabbiting on about the criminal incompetence of Scotland's political handlers of the last 50yrs vis a vis the success of the only political party from the top 4 to be run by Scots in Scotland. Oops nearly ran away with myself again, haha. Yes let's get back to the history guys. Frank can I ask what powerful European political family you were married into? Did you mix with them? Did you do the in Europe?



About the Scotland's History Debates

The Scotland's History debates ran from October 2008 to March 2011. They were run in conjunction with the TV series A History of Scotland.

By the time of closing the debates had received well over six thousand comments from members of the public.

We would like to thank everyone who contributed and made the debates so lively, informative and engaging.

BBC © 2014 The BBC is not responsible for the content of external sites. Read more.

This page is best viewed in an up-to-date web browser with style sheets (CSS) enabled. While you will be able to view the content of this page in your current browser, you will not be able to get the full visual experience. Please consider upgrading your browser software or enabling style sheets (CSS) if you are able to do so.