Scotland's History Debates Mary Queen of Scots

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Mary Queen of Scots

Debate: Murder, civil war, abduction, exile and execution. The turbulent reign of Mary Stuart continues to divide opinion. Was Mary her own worst enemy or a helpless pawn in a ruthless game played out by the powerful nobility?

Darnley's murder propels Scotland to civil war and the forced abdication of the queen.

From A History of Scotland: Project Britain.

Mary Stuart returns to rule the country of her birth to find Scotland a very different place.

From A History of Scotland: Project Britain.

Comments

Eryn Douglas, Scottish Borders 2011-02-06

what a stupid cause for a debate!! ppl should join th William Wallace 1 - so much fun! anyway................... why did Mary queen of scots sign her debate then try and get it back and then got out and elizebeth put her back in prision and then - well she was just beheaded! what an awful thing - i would'nt want a half sister like her!:-D
i have changed my mind.... wot a cool chat!

Robert, Ambleside 2009-04-06

In the Scottish history series the claim was made that only Elizabeth 1st stood against the union of the British isles and France under Mary.

I used to believe that, until, reading a book on Spanish history, I was surprised to learn that Phillip 2nd also opposed it.

He feared the Guises (Mary's mother's family) becoming too powerful: The power in the new super state. A threat to Spain.

Elizabeth served as a buffer to this. A thing which explains why he left it late to move against her.

John Malus, Wirral 2009-02-12

Isa Ropen, UK (FULL STOP) 2009-02-10
You asked me to tell you what is untrue _ I gave you two points maybe three. You asked what is false I told you. You asked for references I gave them. I dont mind you not being able to answer. I don't mind you not understanding. I do mind you calling me son. To let people think I am related to you is a terrible insult.
Come up with a sensible reply or can it.
Goodbye to Bow Knee Scotland

John Maleus, Wiral 2009-02-12

When I post a comment I am told that it will be checked for "Abusive or inflammatory language"
Did no one check the script for the same.

Isa Ropen, UK (FULL STOP) 2009-02-10

John Maleus.
Oh my you dont half talk a lot of bunkum son! What was that poor excuse for a rant all about? What were you even talking about!? Go sit on your hands you're making a fool of yourself son. lol.

Tom Jackson, Edinburgh 2009-02-07

To Globalist,

Jings, I hope you're bracing yourself for a disappointment. A 'benign' government without 'division' or 'strife'???!!! What are you smoking? Can I get some? If you are for real then I worry for your mental health. Can anyone be that naive? If you are serious in what you seem to be saying then you should get involved in practical politics and try and bring about what you claim to be your beliefs. The rest of us will not be holding our breath.

Tom Jackson, Edinburgh 2009-02-07

Hi Stu in Durham,

Canmore is 'Big Head' or 'Big Chief', a play on words to describe a guy who was full of himself, that is, the said Malcolm III. Not a guy to mess with, so his nickname took the p*ss. As it happened his nickname became a surname, and his sons, grandsons, and great grandsons went on to rule Scotland. Malcolm IV was known as 'The Maiden' because he remained unmarried. Not because he was not a lusty vigourous aristocrat, but because he was a 'Sir Galahad' figure, an austere, violent warrior, dedicated to the 'Christian ideal' of a celibate young man, given to pursue other worldy pursuits not worldy pleasures. Not too useful when you are a King. His brother succeded him.

kc, England 2009-02-07

Steve Ratcliffe -Cullercoats

Malcolm Canmore buried in Tynemouth priory, is the grave marked? If i can drag mysef from the Salutation I may have a look.

John Maleus, Wirral. 2009-02-06

GHR, Chesham, Bucks
Reason you wont see menion off Flodden is we won they lost. Usually history is wrtten by the victors . In this instance it is sung by the losers.
Remember the rules: If a Scot insults an Englishman he is beng patriotic. If an Englishman insults a Scot he is racist.
Anyone know how Lucy Newman is ?

John Maleus, Wirral 2009-02-06

Isa Ropen, Scotland.
Thanks for the invite. Current reference 'A Life of Mary Queen of Scots"Dr James Mackay.
NO says that Darnley was Engish. True he was born here but as his familly name was Lennox Son of the Earl of Lennox who was living here in exile. His mother Margaret Douglas, his grandather the Earl of Angus. Call him English ?? Dont be daft. If he was English what nationality was Bonney Prince Charley.
His fatherwas responsible for tying to hunt down MQS A Sottish Quisling accrding to Dr Mckay.
NO Says his body is missing but his skull complete with syphiltic scars is in the Royal College of Surgeons in London.
Want more lassie ??

Stu, Durham 2009-02-06

Hi TBM
yes, my understanding is that Malcolm (Prince of Cumberland) was the son of Duncan II, murdered and usurped by MacBeth. I think MacBeth became King about 1040, then reigned till about 1057. Malcolm returned, killed MacBeth at Dunsinane, and became Malcolm III (Canmore).
Incidentally, I read somewhere that the nickname Canmore was actually applied to Malcolm IV (who reigned about 1150), not Malcolm III

Anyone know whether this is right?

Stu

TBM, Northumberland 2009-02-06

I was eagerly awaiting to hear the historical facts behind the story of Shakespeare's 'Scottish Play', as, if my memory serves me rightly, Duncan and Macbeth were real historical personages. If Malcolm was Malcolm Canmore, then that would put it into some kind of perspective.

Globalist 2009-02-06

Dances with Haggis
my definition of a globalist (admittedly utopian) is someone who believes in a society without frontiers, a benign government of the whole world without division and racial strife which engenders a free andd equable sharing of the earth's recources. The exact antithesis of the current money-grabbing, fractious political situation based on an antiquated concept of national boundaries which I assume you support and wish to extend. In reponse to your last letter, I did re-read your original, but I'm afraid it still reads the same to me. You were certainly making a point, but the substance of it is full of acrimony and singularly humourless. I wonder how 'funny' Mexicans would find that particular reference?

McDiarmid 2009-02-06

One of the best historical programmes I have ever seen. Very informative.
There is one factor though that I find most depressing about Scotlands past, it would appear that while I can understand why there there is deep resentment against the English for Scotlands loss of independence, it was only facilitated by the backstabbing and treacherous behaviour of many Scots, all greedy for power and control. It was their behaviour which always gave England the oppurunities was it not?

Steve Ratcliffe, Cullercoats 2009-02-05

Neil,I can see why you were interested in Malcolm Canmore, King of Scotland, (Malcolm 3rd),
when we met in Cullercoats. Enjoyed the series. Massive subject,but well covered here. !093 is well worth the extra visit. Malcolm, buried in Tynemouth as penance for his brutal conduct
towards the Northumbrians, was never repatriated, and a local farmer was sent in his stead.
So a King of Scotland will remain on Northumbrian soil for all time. regards.

Cliff, Irvine scotland 2009-02-05

Hi Blackford Oakes
History, especially school history, is far more to do with politics than any truths so it’s hardly surprising you did not know much of this. Most in this country don’t either as they are bombarded with the “Westminster” history ie that written by the victors.
One word of warning though, the weather of Scotland is a tad different from New Mexico (we don’t get your tornados!) just a bit of rain.
Hope you and yours have a great visit.

Dances with Haggis, Glesga 2009-02-05

[Globalist
Dances with Haggis
I realise you see the English as inferior beings. Mexicans also apparently. Which people are next for your nationalist hammer?]

Accusing me of seeing other peoples as ''inferior being'' is not only a slander but a bit rich from somone who goes by the name of Globalist which i assume has links to the failed neo liberal economic policies that subjugate peoples of all nations to the interests of corporations, and do i really need to go on about the well known english attitude of superiority that harks back to days of empire that still seems to persist,as for the reference to mexicans, it was there to make a subtle but humourist point,this is where i can help you and point you in the right direction to obtain a sense of humour[ for a few merk..i'm still a Scot you see]

Mark, Elgin 2009-02-05

Dave, Nottingham ...strange but almost true.

You'd be surprised by the influence in most areas that Scots have actually had (and especially given the small size of the place). Although for me the majority of this influence came from the Enlightenment onwards as per the post of Fergus MacErc, Glesga down the page. That of course all come into play from the 18th century and I believe will come in the next series.

Even the Bank of England was founded by a Scot (William Paterson), although he then led the courntry to bankruptcy and ruin through the ill fated Darien "adventure" ... although at this time it's best we leave that one be as it's too close to current events:O

Isa Ropen, Bonnie Scotland. 2009-02-05

Cees May, Vlaardingen/ Holland.
re: John Maleus, Wirral, England.
Take no notice of them that feel chastened by the truth. You've just read a comment by a man in England that wishes we would keep these things hidden. WHY? What's wrong with airing the truth?
And if John can suggest any of these "Open University" portions to be untrue, point out EXACTLY which part is false & proffer a 'credible' point of reference that carries FACTUAL evidence. Otherwise, have you ever tried sitting on your hands! Ta-ra!

Dave, nottingham 2009-02-05

How did the universe ever come into being without Scots? Because the contributers on this site seem to credit them for all things. Judging by the comments allowed on this site the moderator is probably Scottish and anti English. What i have seen and heard of Scots they think impartiality is a short measure of whisky.

Mark, Elgin 2009-02-05

Dear Mr H Young Re the Highlands (Take 2). This text from Wikipedia describes my understanding of the Highlands, which excludes the low lying areas of the North East e.g. Nairn and Elgin:

"In traditional Scottish geography, the Highlands refers to that part of Scotland north-west of the Highland Boundary Fault, which crosses mainland Scotland in a near-straight line from Dumbarton to Stonehaven. However the flat coastal lands that occupy parts of the counties of Nairnshire, Morayshire, Banffshire and Aberdeenshire are often excluded as they do not share the distinctive geographical and cultural features of the rest of the Highlands. The north-east of Caithness, as well as Orkney and Shetland, are also often excluded from the Highlands, although the Hebrides are usually included...."

Plus I agreed with the previous posters thoughts on the futility of conflict between Scotland

Globalist 2009-02-05

Dances with Haggis

I realise you see the English as inferior beings. Mexicans also apparently. Which people are next for your nationalist hammer?

Stu, Durham 2009-02-05

Hi Fiona and everyone.
rest of my message cut off. What I wanted to say was France offered wealth (her marriage portion Duchy of Touraine) and security, yet she chose England to escape to. Why? Two options I can think of - a) she hoped to pursuade Elizabeth to help her regain her Scottish throne or b) she hoped that, from England she could better intrigue with powerful English Catholics like the Duke or Norfolk and Earl of Northumberland to oust Elizabeth, become Queen of England in her place and then regain her Scottish throne by conquest. I think maybe that b) was the more likely option. She was (like Elizabeth) a born fighter. Of course, as we know, it all went pear-shaped.

Ned Ludd, Durham 2009-02-05

On Robert the Bruce, I too had heard that he was born in England, but in Hartlepool not in Essex. The Brus family was an Anglo Norman family which owned various castles in North Yorkshire. To this day there is a village just outside Hartlepool called Brus. The official account of Turnberry being the birthplace might be a manipulation of the facts to prevent the disclosure that one of Scotland’s greatest sons was in fact English! This is not uncommon

John Maleus, Wirral 2009-02-04

to Jamie Bridge Nottigham.
Please let me know if I can contribute to your funds for movng to Scotand.

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