Scotland's History Debates The Scottish Reformation

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The Scottish Reformation

Debate: From the painful death of Patrick Hamilton to the fiery preachings of John Knox and the forced abdication of a Catholic queen, the Reformation changed the religious and political landscape of Scotland. How different would the nation be if the Reformation had not happened here?

Dr Jenny Wormald's opinion of the Scottish Reformation.

From Scotland's History Top Ten..

Mary Stuart returns to a Protestant Scotland.

From A History of Scotland: Language is Power.

Comments

ian, girvan 2010-04-25

you're are one in a million greg

tim, dunlop 2010-04-22

i agree

mark, dundee 2010-04-20

greg for first minister

robert, glasgow 2010-04-20

go on son!

jim, moffat 2010-04-20

i'm with you aswell friend of greg but do you mean "the night before last".

willy, perth 2010-04-20

i'm with you friend of greg.

Anonymous, dumfries 2010-04-17

i'm sick of life because i'm sick of political views. people say the night before night was a historic break through but how when ni,wales and scotland were excluded and the public couldn't voice there views. i for one i'm tired of being called british or my identity being know as british-scottish independence is not about identity it's about people having a right to gover they own land plus take power of army defence etc - we do that all ready in small cases people say scottish independence would mean jobs and money cuts that would make scotland a poor country - i don't think that would happen. scotland is like band name in it's self. - i think scotland needs to be a republic by that we can deal with overseas afaires then we would't have terrorists trying to assassinated aswell as needless men/women died in wars - if ireland can do it whi can't we? people made this country the country did't make the people. friend of greg apolitical

Gordon C, Paisley 2009-12-08

I've been following the TV series with interest.Only the BBC could produce a history of Scotland and omit the Reformation.It's akin to producing a history of the motor car whilst avoiding any mention of the internal combustion engine.The presenter's sneering and contemptuous references to the Covenanters in a later episode reveal as much about his own beliefs as they do about theirs.It's no surprise therefore that the real historian, Tom Devine, who is qualified to address the matter, decided to leave them to it.It's an object lesson in airbrushing history that Stalin would be proud of.What next from the BBC?Why our top execs should be exempt from pay restraints?-presented by Pudsey Bear?

Anonymous, Edinburgh 2009-11-30

I find it amusing the fiery hateful arguments that come about over this very touchy subject really. Catholics Vs Protestant (I also find it amusing that they forget Presbyterian and Anglicans are fundamentally different churches). The thing that amuses me about it is, non of them are religious, few of them actually believe or have taken the time to read the bible. 'Do on to others as you would have them do on to you', 'love thy neighbor', 'Turn the other cheek', 'Their shall be no splits in my church' any of these quotes ring any bells? No we Celtic nations unfortunately have been so stupid to mix Politics, Religion and Sport so that its an excuse to group ourselves and fight the other group, shout hateful words at each other that meanings are long lost on us.

Brian Ross, Glasgow. 2009-03-20

Paddy, Govan. I really like the 'what ifs' of alternate history mate and I don't think it's a totally futile excersize. No doubt you're the same as myself as you brought up the subject, but I've often went back over things and rued the manifestation of certain events and thought 'if only' that had come about in an alternative manner or was blocked from happening at all we might have some parity in this or that area. No I think it can be a useful excersize aswell, can give you an idea of where you could PTO>

Brian Ross, Glasgow. 2009-03-20

Paddy, Govan. I really like the 'what ifs' of alternate history mate and I don't think it's a totally futile excersize. No doubt you're the same as myself as you brought up the subject, but I've often went back over things and rued the manifestation of certain events and thought 'if only' that had come about in an alternative manner or was blocked from happening at all we might have some parity in this or that area. No I think it can be a useful excersize aswell, can give you an idea of where you could PTO>

Mark, Elgin 2009-03-20

Paddy, you state "we live in the most unequal society in Western Europe", please expand...give examples?

Paddy, Govan 2009-03-20

The 'what-if's' of alternate history are an entertaining, if ultimately futile excercise. Generating a debate on why we live in the most unequal society in Western Europe might be more relevant and productive.

Mark, Elgin 2009-03-19

Well said Dave, trust and community can never be built on fear and uncertainty. It took Adams and McGuinness 30 years to suss out that the only real way forward is by consent building bridges and trust...not by violence and intimidation. Whether they get what they desire is up to the people of Ulster and that will only come with peace and some semblance of normal life. It'll take time but whatever time it takes is better than lives being lost in a senseless "cause".

Going back to the old tit for tat routine is only for backwards people with their own agenda, which is anything but positive and unifying.

Brian Ross, Glasgow. 2009-03-19

Part 3.
might find, to their disappointment, that there ain't much of an appetite for carnage this weather. Maybe that's because one community doesn't feel the need to fight fire with fire anymore, maybe the percieved notion of the injustices of the past have been
replaced with equality? Whatever it is, the people have their men in Stormont now, for goodness sake Ian Paisley & Martin McGuinness were caught on film sharing a joke together! Can someone tell me if a Sinn Fein man can become Leader in Ulster?

Brian Ross, Glasgow. 2009-03-19

Part 2.
And I think that's safe to say in a lot of (documented) instances. However I know it's easy to open up old wounds on this topic so without going to deep, I like what you said Dave re: these two islands standing shoulder to shoulder on the recent flare up. Isn't it over now? Haven't the Republican community in Ulster got the equal rights now? Parity in employment? Roman Catholic policemen, political representation in a devolved parliament? I think if the new shooters take a look about they'll.. PTO>

Brian Ross, Glasgow. 2009-03-19

Hi Mark/Dave, Gandhi: A good role model to some in similar positions. What was his saying... "An eye for an eye and the whole world is blind" People only seem to resort to violence when the democracy fails but it's Ireland we're talking about. A place where it took 30yrs of violence to reach democracy! re: that last comment, I suppose it could be pointed out that until the emergence of Tony Blair there was no-one willing to listen to anything the Irish had to say about equal rights on their own island.
PTO>

Dave, Lanarks 2009-03-19

Mark, Brian. Can't agree more.Can't even add to your comments, you said it all.Trust and hope the recent shootings are the last aftershock of the troubles.My heartfelt sympathy to the families of those who died.These Islands stand shoulder to shoulder against this tiny minority of dangerous loonies.We shall overcome. Thanks for your comments.

Mark, Elgin 2009-03-17

Hi Brian. Re the Plantations, yes there were smaller scale attempts from Tudor times but it was James 1st and 6th who started the largest ones then it continued throughout the 17th century under Cromwell and then there were further large scale incursions as a result of the famine in Scotland during the 1690s.

I agree with your views on the thugs in their "business" of blood and fear. They hide in the shadows and create disruption and fear, killing and maiming indiscriminately and all without any mandate or accountability. Cowards and bullies. Meanwhile look at the likes of Gandhi who achieved so much through pacifism.

Brian Ross, Glasgow. 2009-03-13

Part 2.
paramilitary tags and quite rightly so, they are thugs, nothing more, nothing less. Some of their predecessors (from both sects) were like them, drug dealing pimps who went around under the guise of paramilitary hardmen, this mask earned them the bulk of their "money for the cause" from places like Glasgow & elsewhere. "Money for the cause" my backside, how do people think they paid their mortgages n drove around in jeeps etc - "money for the cause" from the idiots who had the wool...To Next Page>>

Brian Ross, Glasgow. 2009-03-13

I know it's out of order mate, I seen a bit of the police guy's funeral on TV this morning. Aye what an irony it is, as you said the vast majority of the
plantations on Ulster were Scots! The very Scots who came from that island with the msg of christianity then returned to where they'd came with a different version of it. Mark didn't Elizabeth I of Eng also do plantations before the Stewarts? However you seem to have a good handle on it, I noticed you labelled them thugs instead of the usual...To Nxt Pg >>

Mark, Elgin 2009-03-10

That last bit of the 2nd paragraph was supposed to read:

Another realisation is that the majority of the Plantation were Scots and this is a horrible irony as the Scots/Irish movement over the Irish Sea...along with the fact that the schism of Christianity is part of it even though the general motto is "Love Thy Neighbour".

Mark, Elgin 2009-03-10

Aye, Brian we have a lot of common ground...indeed would be boring if we agreed on everything :)

On a negative Reformation note, the NI situation... which has reared it's ugly head once more due to bully boy minorty hell bent on trouble. Unfortunatley part of this problem dates back to James 1st of GB and his "Plantation" policy, which he first tried out on the Western Isles. Even 500 years on the machinations are still felt with the Ulster populace. Another realisation is that the majority of the Plantation were Scots and this is a horrible irony as the Scots/Irish movement over the Irish along with the fact that the schism of Christianity is part of it even though the general motto is "Love Thy Neighbour".

One can only hope the majority of both communities do not this situation to escalate as there are no winners in a return to violence but the unaccountable thugs and murderers.

Brian Ross, Glasgow. 2009-03-09

BBC Scotland Moderator:
No it's okay thanks, it was me that left what I was saying in mid-sentence then forgot the gist of my point when I came back to it and just sent it like that. I've never had a problem with your system, just my own server and sometimes the reception, but thanks for offering to re-send.

-BBC Scotland Moderator-

No problem, Brian - thought it was our cursed glitch that had struck again!

Brian Ross, Glasgow. 2009-03-09

Hi Mark, alright mate, sorry if my texts are a bit fractious, not been at myself this mornin, my wee cousin was up fae Ayrshire all w/end n we were knockin about together but he had a bug n the wee scamp's gave me it n away off back down the road. Anyway I'll push this through mate. I know we seem to have a different view on what we'd like for the country however we're on the same page with most other things in between. The way you put the bit about [Ss S] is how I was trying to put it! Spot on Mark, and wi

-BBC Scotland Moderator-

Sorry, Brian - looks cropped to me. Happy to repost if you want. Apologies, BSM.

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