Scotland's History Debates Bruce's Legacy

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Bruce's Legacy

Debate: Liberator, hero, murderer. Does the end result of a free Scotland justify Bruce's bloody means of achieving it?

Robert the Bruce's violent campaign in the Comyn lands of Buchan.

From A History of Scotland: Bishop makes King.

Fiona Watson explores Bruce's burning ambition to become king.

From In Search of Scotland.

Comments

kc, England 2009-02-12

English member of the SNP.
You allude to being ashamed of me when I say the SNP are anti-English. Couldn't you just state some facts instead of getting all emotional. Can you please answer me some questions.
How many of your ministers are English?
How many of your leaders have been English?
Could you ever see a Scottish PM being of English birth?

kc, England 2009-02-12

English SNP member.
Yo say that the SNP is the only party to properly represent Scotland that's your opinion. The majority of Scots don't share this view, they voted Green labour liberal..... even tory. You got 33% of the vote. Lord Haw Haw was English and he cosied up to another nationalist party!

CK, Scotland 2009-02-12

"From the eternal sea he rises, creating armies on either shore, turning man against his brother, til man exists no more!" Britannia's robe has been crimson with the blood of innocents for centuries. Turned man against his brother by dividing countries all over the World: Iraq-Kuwait, India-Pakistan, Eire & N.I. Israel-Palestine- a direct result of the British fuelled 2nd WW. After Britain imposed the Versailles treaty on Germany the Germans couldnt afford
to eat. Look what happened when Mr Hitler appeared!

English member of the SNP, Glasgow North. 2009-02-11

KC, please don't label me or my party as anti English because I'm one of several hundred "English" members of the SNP. As I said, last Friday was a bad day for us when one of our Glasgow MSP's died, Bashir Ahmad the first EVER Muslim Asian member of any Scots Parliament and a proud SNP man! Race doesn't bar you from OUR party! As I said I'm English but the only party to properly represent Scotland isn't HQ'd in London, it's the SNP. If you call yourself English then I'm afraid I'm very ashamed of you dear.

David Blagojevic, Govan, Scotland. 2009-02-10

If you tell truth about packing burned bodies then you could have packed my mother and brother. Where in Croatia did you do this and were you other place in that hell? You go to place as cleaner, I KNOW how things were. I lived in it. The goverments make the troubles by cheating the peoples. The Scotts of Britain are like Croats of (jugoslavia). It is public record that the Scotts have gave more money and resources to Britain than it got back for last 40 years! Greedy London goverment will rip up Britain!

pete, rhyl 2009-02-10

To the Croat. I packed up burnt bodies in the aftermath of the ethnic cleansing in your place, and I did three tours in N. Ireland trying to keep "different" bunches of Irish from killing each other. Not long ago. I also remember Welsh loonies firebombing houses. Don't tell other people what they know. I also know that Scotland gets more U.K. money per head of population than any others excepting the N. Irish. There's nothing to moan about, and an awful lot to loose. It doesnt take much to start off the idiots.

Gian Deganini, Cardiff, Rep of Wales. 2009-02-09

Oh & on u'r last post KC u urged (?) some unnamed person to attend a thinking course. ? (Was that meant to be a cutting,witty retort?).lol. At me? u then quoted me by calling Hitler a racist genocidal killer! (My words) But then u got all angry & said he was a nationalist too! Really! Wot kind? Austrian or German? And is that coz his party was the Nationalist Socialist GWP? Was he a Socialist too then? So thats the nature of Scots nationalism is it? haha I'm a Welsh Nat r we racist killers too? Or r we ok?

Gian Deganini, Cardiff, Rep of Wales. 2009-02-09

Eeeh by gum! Wot's up KC? Why u pitting u'r wits against a wee schoolboy over an Austrian skitzo whom u call a German nationalist? He's obviously got u tied in knots wiv u'r own words mate! You rhymed off a few infamous acts (holocaust) caused by an insane dictactor
who probably thought he was possessed by Neitchze & a few other things, Turks on Kurds etc, then really threw a wobbler & said "That's the nature of Scots Nationalism!" haha. Why say that mate? Not feel a bit silly now? He done u on the EU too?!

Ned Ludd, Durham 2009-02-09

Moderator
Your e-mail system is too open to abuse. How does it prevent groups of 'ne'er-do-wells' from acting in a coordinated fashion to wind up other posters?

A Croatian who is also a Govanite? I suppose it does prove my earlier point about the extent of migration within and to these Islands.

Ned Ludd, Durham 2009-02-09

I've always admired the Scottish education system and still think it superior to that in England, but there seems to be something sadly lacking in the teaching of history in this fair land.
Hitler was a nationalist - his aim was to unite all ethnic Germans under the one Reich

kc, England 2009-02-07

Please attend a national thinking course run by your education department. Hitler was a racist genocidal killer and also a nationalist. Nationalsm is closley associated with war and even genocide. Please read some history books, and get an adult to help with the big words.

beth, England 2009-02-06

Tom, the English can't make up their minds on Europe because of the gravy train it is. After the recent strikes with the oil refineries we see that no one needs the european directives. Politicans ( not mentioning any names) should be working for British interests, not their own agendas. England, Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland..... we all need each other.

beth, England 2009-02-06

Fishkeeper, kent - reading your comment regarding Robert the Bruce and essex connections, one now understands how sad it is some people are very biased in their thinking...... keep on fishing (which I believe makes the brain numb)......

David Blagojevic, Zagreb,Croatia-Govan,Glasgow. 2009-02-06

One of you guys named Lord (nickname?). You sit in the comfort of your British homes & talk of how it was in Kosovo etc, yous know of nothing! I have read all said on this page and one of the few to speak any sense is the 14 years old boy! Yous speak like charlatans! You say there is no inequality in Britain but London goverment print the "Scotland" is poorest area of Britain in last so many decades! The Scotts in Britain is like the Croats in (jugoslavia)! The greedy in London will tear up Britain just as

Gian Deganini, Cardiff, Rep of Wales. 2009-02-06

I'm worried about the UK Govt vis a vis the Nazi's. Reason being there's many among the Labour Party that 'call themselves' Socialists. The name of Hitler's party was the "Nationalist -Socialist- German Workers Party". Judging by the ethos of K.C's texts, anyone in a party that has any of these names (Nationalist Socialist) might be inclined to metamorphose
into racist killers. Oh & Hitler wasnt a Nationalist anymore than he was a Socialist, he was a racist killer! Still no reply to little Donian on the EU?

Spectator, Ramsgate, England. 2009-02-06

Lord de Luded et al. You all should be ashamed of yourselves. You especially Lordy. That young boy came on here & pointed out the ridiculous notions of you & your two cohorts, alluding that 6 million dead jews (God rest them) & the racists that killed them were in some way likened to the Scots NP. Check KCs words "Thats the nature of Scots Nationalism", it's still there in print for ALL to see! What? I suppose it wasn't meant that way! Haha. Also put in your place on the EU! 3 of you cut down by a 14yr old!

kc, England 2009-02-06

Nationalism- the last refuge of the scoundrel.
A young woman was assaulted in Aberdeen because she had an English accent. Left with 2 black eyes and a broken cheekbone.

The Lord, St Kitts 2009-02-06

Dorian, my messages are continuously being censored, so this will be my finale. My observations were to infer that when things get serious, such petty squabbles about one's provenance seem ridiculous. You decided to impute something entirely different, and retort according to your traduction. This is the trick of the cheap politician, and worthwhile debate should be free of such calumniation. One other point

-BBC Scotland Moderator-

Hi Lord, looks like your message has come through cropped unfortunately. Apologies - we are trying to get to bottom of why messages are appearing like this. I'll happily post your full comment if you re-send.

kc, England 2009-02-06

Dorian (age 14) WH Scotland Europe The world The universe

Its true we all come out of Africa anyway so why the nationalistic rants? Hitler et al not nationalists? Surely some mistake.

The Lord, St Kitts 2009-02-06

Dorian, my boy, why traduce what were mere observations, based upon experience? The (not so subtle) essence of my inference was that when situations are important and serious, such petty squabbles regarding ones' provenances become meaningless

Ned Ludd, Durham 2009-02-06

Lord and KC

Thanks for your recent postings, they say what I have been attempting to say only more eloquently. I still say that none of this matters. What is important that we all get on together and don’t allow extremists to drive wedges between the constituent communities of this land. Various mass migrations to/within Britain/UK over the past 400 years have ensured that we all have come from the same genetic melting pot anyway. I have connections with both Glasgow and the East Coast within my family tree (connections through Irish emigration). If even the epitome of an English gentleman – Jeremy Paxman – can have a grandmother brought up ‘on the parish’ in a Glasgow garret, then Donian may well have a great grandmother from Tunbridge Wells – nothing is impossible within the realms of genealogy!

Lord, you mentioned that you were at the liberation of Bergen Belsen in 1945 was this as a member of the Pioneer Corps?

Traanz Paarent, Celtic Isles. 2009-02-05

Be Silent! Lord de Luded or whatever the wain calls you. (No offence on your age Donian). What was that yi just muttered there? Was that a quasi lordly eloquent way of saying "we didny say that" or "mibbe we did say that but we didny mean it that way"? Once again, in the nicest possible way, Be Quiet! You drone on without colour or interest and you ain't very funny pal! Another opinion of you is re: subcutaneous, in a very shallow manner, your xenophobia is very evident given the right surrounding. G'day!

Ned Ludd, Durham 2009-02-05

Donian

Here is pub quiz with just two questions:

Which European politician, on hearing of Hitler’s death in May 1945, and knowing the full extent of the Holocaust, duly trotted faithfully round to his local German Consulate and signed the book of condolence?

Which European politician objected vigorously to NATO’s selective and strategic bombing of Serbia, even though in his heart he knew that it was the only way to stop Milosovic’s murderous ethnic cleansing in Kosova?

A clever young scamp like you will soon polish off these questions

Donian S., W.H. Scotland. 2009-02-05

Not at all James, you're on my bebo friends anyway so just re-connect through my last comment & give me a shout, infact just direct them to that guy Ross' jokepage- haha! Over & Out J.J.
Oh as per you lots' Mensa style rants on the SS there's another debate just started on another page on how the English authorities sanctioned genocide in the Scots Highlands. If there's any interested, turn the page & read how a Germanic race (English) tried to commit genocide on a whole other race of people. (Highlanders)

The Lord, St Kitts 2009-02-05

Dear Dorian, no such parallels as you allude to were made whatever

About the Scotland's History Debates

The Scotland's History debates ran from October 2008 to March 2011. They were run in conjunction with the TV series A History of Scotland.

By the time of closing the debates had received well over six thousand comments from members of the public.

We would like to thank everyone who contributed and made the debates so lively, informative and engaging.

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