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MARTIN LUTHER AND THE DIET OF WORMS
James Morrison - Martin Luther
Really interesting episode. I liked the way the political and religious aspects were considered together and his wider impact. Any plans to do one on Calvinism?
Edward/Diet of Worms
Luther discounted 'works' as a means to salvation because as your programme stated it is God alone who saves and therefore there is nothing one can do to secure salvation. But I don't believe that this view properly represents the human condition vis a vis God and salvation. Let's just say that God is the sole doer in the process of salvation. But that does'nt mean that we have no part to play. Imagine if one sailed a yacht to the Bahamas. You could say it was the wind that carried you every millimetre of the way but it would be one's own navigating and sailing skill that harnessed the wind and allowed it to blow the yacht to its destination. So it is with salvation. The Christian may act, speak, think and feel in ways that cooperates with the Divine will or in ways that oppose it. In this way action is an important component of salvation. What Luther was correct in saying was that works in exchange for salvation, quid pro quo, is erroneous. This is because God is beyond the cause and effect principle being unconditional by nature. However by offering unconditionally the fruits of our activities to God as the doer and enjoyer of works, the soul my be released from its worldly identity of gain and loss and become united with God. This is all explained the Bhagavada Gita.
Hazen McDonald/Diet of Worms
One never tires of this most excellent programme. As is usual, I can comfortably sit back and listen to intelligent people discursing interestingly about subjects of real curiosity. Keep up the good work!
Polly Clarke - Martin Luther
Dear Melvyn I listened with interest to the programme about Martin Luther. I have written a novel about his wife Katharina von Bora, which is of course also about him. My agent has not yet found a British publisher to take it, they say there is not the interest in German history. However, Sibi Ruschmeier in Berlin, who translates Bill Bryson books and is a professional reader, loves the book and is convinced it would go down a treat in Germany and also North America, where there are more Lutherans. (American Lutherans call Wittenberg their Rome) It is called Martin Luther had a Wife. Dr Ronald Blythe has written a foreword. It is 100,000 words long. If you, or Diarmaid McCulloch or Charlotte Methuen had any ideas about where to send it, I would be most grateful. I wanted to plug the gap of ignorance `(Bildungslucke)in England about that great upheaval in Germany which set the scene for modern Europe. It's such an exciting story, with the printing, and Lucas Cranach, and Melanchton, and the Wartburg. Also, Kathe von B is held up as a model wife to German children, and a lot of my book is about the challenge of running a large household at that time. Putting by, brewing, dairy and so on. With best wishes,
Ciaran/Martin Luther and the Diet of Worms
I enjoyed the programe and what I understood to be the conclusion namely that there was much more politics than religion about this episode of history. Henry the VIII is the English counterpart of the the Elector who protected Luther,the Elector saw the chance of money and power. Henry inherited the throne and the richest treasury in Europe and in a most profligate manner bankrupted the state he too turned to the catholic church for financial salvation and the excuse was to reform the church. In executing Henry's plan Thomas Cromwell destroyed maybe as many as 1500 religious houses with their infirmaries and schools , while the populace suffered and paid the price , there were then the attendant religious wars ;what a price for a vainglorious prince and princes or Electors. I'm looking forward to hearing about Joseph Needham and his research into Chinese technology at least I hope thats what the next programe will be about.
Fiona Caldwell /Diet of Worms
I enjoyed this programme because it works best with fewer contributors. More than 3 make it sound confusing and crowded. So well done.
Andrew Bryan Norman: The Diet of Worms and Martin
A most excellent insight, into this subject. As a A-Level student studying the Catholic Church and Martin Luther's Reformation. This programme links perfectly with my course and has allowed me to gain a more indepth and detailed view of this important event in the Reformation. Particulary how it links to the attitude of Frederick the Wise. The programme also brilliantly explained the three main works published by Luther in 1520's. The problem also linked to the Papal Bull Exsurge Domine, and the attitues of the Cathloic Church. Thank you for a brilliant programme that has gave me a more indepth knowledge of Luther and the Diet of Worms and how this changed the course of the Reformation and European History.
Neville Grundy - Martin Luther
An interesting programme, but I don't agree with Melvin Bragg's description of the Holy Roman Empire as the greatest Christian empire the world had ever seen. The Roman Empire of the 4th and 5th centuries A.D. was definitely Christian; in fact, Paganism was ruthlessly stamped out. It had a far greater geographical spread than the Holy Roman Empire, which was more of a confederation than the centralised political entity that its historical namesake was. The Roman Empire could be regarded as the greatest Christian empire in another way. Without Christianity being embraced by Constantine and spread throughout the empire, by coercion if necessary, it may have died out or have remained an obscure Near Eastern sect. Whether that was a good thing or not is another matter entirely.
larry rushton: Luther
Wonderful series, for which I thank you. In the programme on Luther and the Diet of Worms, I was a little disappointed that you did not mention that great Englishman, John Wycliffe, "the morning star of the Reformation", who really started it all. He anticipated by more than a hundred years most of Luther's ideas. Both Luther and Jan Huss (who was mentioned in the programme) acknowledged their debt to Wycliffe, who also issued an English translation of the Bible. Wycliffe would merit a programme all to himself.
G Wells Luther
The main Biblical re-discovery Luther made came to him as a personal revelation of the 'way of salvation', namely 'Justification through faith in Christ alone'. This came after an intense and prolonged sense of the hopelessness of 'trying to be good enough.' As with St Paul before him 'the evil that I would not do, that I do'. That salvation was in Christ alone brought great peace to his tormented and guilt-ridden mind. It was this hatred for a useless 'works' orientated attempt at salvation that drove him to detest the Papacy with its emphasis on outward religious acts. The great dilemma as to 'why be good if totally forgiven?' was answered by St Paul who was open to the same chargein his preaching - 'how can we who died to sin still live in it?' - i.e. a fundamental change has been wrought in the soul by God by salvation. God is now within all believers, causing us 'to will and to want His good pleasure.' There is implanted a new nature which like a plant through the tarmac throws off sin because it wants the light. The struggle is not to win God's grace but to live up to it. Luther's treatment of the 'Farmer's Uprising' was understandable - too much too soon for him and all the princes, yet his ideas led to the concept of equality between all the heirs of salvation which formed the basis of the English democratic movement from the 17th C. The Jews - hard to defend him at all! Yet perhaps in his hatred of 'works' there was an identification of works-oriented Judaism and the papacy and he viewed them as a threat to this precious freedom. It was not only Luther's ideas that inspired the Nazis but Darwin's also! Perhaps Darwin's memory should be so tarnished as laying a foundation for the concept of master race - not found in Luther's works or the New Testament?
G. C. Wright - Diet of Worms
As a Roman Catholic Theologian I must say that it would have been nice to have a Roman Catholic view on this topic. Of course, the program was admirably non-polemical, but there are those of us Roman Catholics who do not simply line up along the Oxford line of interpretation of this important piece of history. Thank you for "In Our Time" - it is perhaps the most intelligent English language program on the radio.
In Our Time - Research
The section in the web page about research in the week's subject is very helpful; however, it would be more useful if it were about the subject of the week to come, that way the audience could understand more about the forthcoming discussion
Saadi Haeri, Averroes
If you wanted to move on from Averroes and Avicenna, to Sufis such as Ghazali or Ibn Arabi, you may need to talk about the 'Thinkers of the East' rather than its philosophers. A worthwhile work on this subject is Idries Shah's book of the same name, Thinkers of the East. The Catholic Church prevented many of the ideas inherited from Greeks, from being disseminated in the West as they were deemed diabolical, for example the use of hypnosis in medicine.
Edward Westerdale, Re: Jacob Fugger
Thank you for producing such an unerringly informative and fascinating series. I would like to suggest the following subject as being of interest for a future programme. As your guests discussed the two great medieval powers - Pope and Emperor - I thought of the almost forgotten/unknown man on whom both depended, Jacob Fugger "The Rich". Among other things, he was the chief collector of revenues from the sale of indulgences in the Holy Roman Empire and therefore one of the main financial backers of Pope Leo X and the Roman Catholic church. When the future Charles V was seeking campaigning for the office of Holy Roman Emperor, there was only one man who could lend him enough money to bribe the Electors. He did not have the artistic influence of, say, the Medici family, yet he and his family amassed a fortune, which remains unparalleled to the present day and were instrumental in the supporting the Habsburg family for decades. His intelligence gathering and communication network was superior to anything known before or for centuries after, capable of transmitting information from Spain the Germany in just hours. He built and endowed the first social housing in Europe the "Fuggerei" in Augsburg, which is still used to this day. Calculating and ruthless, he played for breathtaking financial stakes and his story would be a worthy subject for your attention.
John Pitt-Francis Luther
Another fascinating and semi-ordered discussion. I felt I was there spectating these historic events more than if I had watched them. Thanks for yet another good listen.
MichaelTarrant-Diet of Worms
Another excellent programme. Never have I hear this complex situation so thoroughly and consisely explained, with all its relevent background detail, within the limits of a 45 minute broadcast. My only regret is that I didn't hear it before sitting my GCE O level History summer 1951, or was it 1952? MichaelTarrant 01963-31862
Anthony Denne re: Martin Luther
Thank you Melvin and panel for a wonderful insight into the cultural, sociopolitical and economic times surrounding the story of Martin Luther, a figure in history I've always admired but knew very little about... So thank you for filling in the blanks. Towards the end of the broadcast one of your guests remarks about the Protestants eternal dilemma regarding the belief that only through the will of God can one be 'saved' or recieve salvation and therefore there being little motivation to do 'good' or 'not do bad'. What a shame that Christianity has so fully ignored or failed to understand the eternal and 'unerring' Law of Karma, illuded to in some of the surviving teachings of Jesus i.e. "do unto others as you would be done by," and "judge not and neither condemn lest you be judged" etc. For an understanding of Karma one need only look to the Buddhists who will explain more fully but in its simplist form "what you choose to be will be visited upon you in this life or the next..." or "what you do to or for another will be visited upon you..." so you see here is the perfect motivation to bring one's attitudes and behaviours more in line with the divine example Jesus showed... Through one's efforts of will to 'will to the divine within' or the 'Kingdom of Heaven' within, and raise one's consciousness one becomes one's own saviour and truly fulfills the prophecy that "these things I do, you will do and more...". It's all about individual aspiration to the Divine not corporate membership to an orgaization be that religious or secular. This, I believe, was the fundamental point Jesus was making in trying to encourage us to take personal responsibility for our salvation and that which has been so successfully turned around by organized Christianity in order to relieve the masses of this liberating philosophy... in essence it is our inner acknowledgment or surrender or divotion to our own divine will that saves us from the disempowering distractions of 'earthly' life and raises our consciousness, for we are never separate from that which 'saves' us... Thank you the opportunity to vent this... Blessings Tony Denne
Luther
Another great epsiode of this fantastic brain food. I was insprired by a subject I haven't encountered before to think about morality and religious freedom. Keep them coming and many thanks to the team.
Rev Jonny Elvin, re: In Our Time
Dear Melvin, thank you for 'In Our Time' on Martin Luther this morning. Illuminating as ever, particularly regarding the wider political scene surrounding the Diet of Worms. Chaired well. Essential listening for thoughtful people! I only wish I could listen more often.
S Shaw re: Martin Luther
The prinicple of 'Justification by faith'was wrongly characatured in the broadcast as simply 'me standing before God, or fate'. Luther's point was that of faith in the finished work of Christ who died on the cross to take our punishment for sin. This was driven by reading the Bible and triggered especially by studying Paul's leeter to the Romans. especially ch 1 vs 16.
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