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HUMAN EVOLUTION
s.g.k. Evolution
I liked the sentence in Melvyn's letter '...to have a language involves a shared consensus of meaning'. To know where and when language evolved would be very interesting indeed, but the uses of language are so much more important now that all our laws, religions, education, communications - professional and otherwise have their basis in symbolic meaning. Had we the collective will we could evolve a cultural sense of cognition, informed by a common cultural purpose ( harming no one deliberately - living re-creatively and responsibly in liberal relation.....) Quite a few philosophers have recognised that,latent in language, is another function. Please could there be an investigative programme on that?
Human Evolution David Godfrey
Picking up on the creationists points it should be noted that we share 50% of our DNA with Bananas (not 2%) simply because at the molecular level most multicellular life is simply a variation on a theme compared to that of bacteria. Scriptual evidence for creation cannot be discussed in programs such as this as it simply does not exist. Flood legends may be universal simply because floods are a fact of life in most areas of the world. The missing link is an outdated concept in biology, and as soon as a fossil with transitional features is found it creates two new gaps the creationists demand are filled. Dating methods are based on volcanic ash deposits. If a fossil is found between two ash falls (even if it was buried in a flood) the dating gives an upper and lower limit to its age. And frozen animals are actually preserved in the permafrost- not inside glaciers (nowhere near deserts), and usually showing signs of decompostion. I suggest that the correspondant looking for evidence of an ice age goes to the Alps- it was enough to convince geologists, such as Louis Agassiz and R. I. Murchison in the 19th century- most of whom rejected evolution, but would have had equal disdain for the modern "Young-Earth" creationism models. Perhaps this part of the history of geology would be a suitable future subject for Melvyn to tackle?
léo burton...;Homo Symbolicus
In the discussion and the newsletter, the acquisition of language was considered as a stage in evolution. S. Langer in "Philosophy in a New Key" imagines the process. Hominid hunters,who have the mechanical ability to speak, cry "HA" in the presence of a quarry.. This is a signal. At some time, when not hunting, an aspect of rocks, or a bush, or a cloud is seen to resemble the quarry, or perhaps an individual is hungry. In such a circumstance the sound 'Ha" is uttered, and the image is communicated to others. Thus the image is evoked in the absence of the quarry...this is the use of a symbol, and constitutes language. A signal represents, and can be understood by many animals. a symbol,which as far as we know can be understood only by man, represents or can mis-represent...thus we have the origin of politics.
Robin Allott Human Evolution Language and Art
Melvyn's Newsletter this week remarks that language is a fascinating area and he quotes Margaret Clegg's note on this. So far in its evolution and in its remarkably rapid acquisition by children, language, and speech, remain very much a mystery. It would be nice to have a whole In Our Time devoted to language. What was of interest in the discussion were the comments on the relation between art and language. The crucial point about the cave-drawings, from a neurological point of view, is not their character as symbols but as demonstrating that early man had become able to externalise his purely mental images, to transduce the structure of the images say of an elk or a bear into a motor plan for the hand and arm movements needed to draw the elk or the bear. The brain operation needed for drawing is in this respect parallel to the brain operation needed for speech. The conversion of the mental image of a word into the utterance requires complex motor programming of the articulatory system, the tongue, larynx etc. Speech like drawing is essentially a high-level motor activity. Margaret Clegg's mention of the closeness of the brain areas for speech and fine hand movement makes plausible the idea that speech emerged, and continues, as an exaptation of neural motor control, Motor systems existing to program hand and arm movements have become extended and applied to program the articulatory movements of speech.
Kevan AC Martin, Human Evolution
Prof Steve Jones mentioned that mutation in particular genes such as FOXP2 mutations remove specifically the ability for language. This is another overinterpretation of the data. Faraneh Vargha-Khadem (also at UCL) and her colleagues' studies of the KE family indicate that they have deficits not only in language articulation and language comprehension, but they also have deficits in the ability to move their mouth and face, and they have signficantly reduced verbal and non-verbal IQ. Since FOXP2 is a transcription factor, it potentially can affect the expression of a large number of genes, as Simon Fisher, one co-discoverers of the gene, has pointed out. Hence to say it is specific for language is an overinterpretation. As for the mice whose FOXP2 genes were knocked out, it should be noted that not only did they not emit ultrasonic calls when removed from their mothers, but they also had severe motor impairements and died prematurely. Prof Steve Jones may have a brain that is 5 times bigger than a non-human primate of his weight, but most of us have a brain that is only about 3 times bigger when scaled by body weight, than our closest non-human primate relations.
Evolution story - unproven
How amazing to listen to the debate in last night's In Our Time which addressed the evolution conundrum. The point was made that the difference between the DNA of man cf. with that of a chimpanzee is about 1.2% only. However, man's DNA is also just 2% different from that of a banana's - so nothing conclusive there. Also came the stark comment that (and I paraphrase): "Chimpanzees are becoming extinct because of... man". Well, where's the evidence? Who has seen the process taking place and, whether or not, why is it not continuing down to this day? Not discussed at all was the Scriptural evidence that utterly dispels the evolution argument. In Genesis 1:25-26 it states that "God made [all] creations... 'according to their kind... and man in His image'" - therefore, as discrete beings. Simple, direct and right at the beginning of the Bible. PHILIP TURNER
Trevor Coleman/ Human evolution
Great programme, but I wish we knew more about why Africa has seemed to be the mixing pot for the production of the prototype humans. Maybe the fossil record in the area has survived better than in other places? Kind regards, Trevor Coleman
Evolution
What a load of drivel.... the proposed window of evolution is pathetic. look at the facts (which most scientists do) 1, the missing links are still missing. 2, the dating relates to the surounding soil, not the fossils which could have been dislodged and relocated during the flood. 3 the global flood forms part of almost every nation. 4, ref: the so-called 'ice age' what actual proof is there of an 'ice age'? glaciers move slowly, how would they trap animals and marine life in dessert caves, some still having food in their mouth, indicating a swift end??? Please get real.... Evolutionists are promoting a 'theory' not a 'FACT' you are an intelligent being use your intelligence, look at 'THE FACTS' regards Graham Godfrey
Barrie Singleton Anomalous man.
A synthesis of cataclysm-theory and large-brain-rewiring-potential (stroke/cerbral palsy recovery)leads me to suggest a cause of big brain might have been a (semi-extinction) period of very low oxygen after a violent event. Further, to optimise "humanity" (social stability) onset of puberty might usefully be delayed for at least ten years. Hasty puberty to serve gross survival (at the expense of subtle capacities) is, I suggest, further indication that we are (to use the scientific term) a cock up.
Clive McKay - Human Evolution
No mention was made in Today's programme of the theory that humans diverged from other primates via a semi-aquatic period. The development of the the larynx (crucial to being able to speak) is thought to be primarily as an aid to keeping water out of the trachea (not shared bu other primates which SECONDARILY enable speech development.
Christopher Fox-Walker. Human Evolution and the A
An intereting array of if, may be, could be, might be, probably is, probably isn't, might possibly be, concerning the origins of various species so far discovered. Zarathrustra said: "What is man that thou art mindful of him?" In the 20th ct a man at Trinity, Cambridge offered the following hypothesis: "Man is a microcosm, that is, an image (centred around the point of the consciousness) of the macrocosm, or universe. This theorum is guaranteed by the hylo-idealistic demonstration that the perceptible universe is an extension, or phantasm, of the nervous system. It follows, therefore, that all phenomena, internal and external, may be classified for the purpose of discussing their observed relations, in any manner which experience may show to be the most convenient. For example, the elaborate classifications of science, chemical and physical, there is no essential truth in any of these aids to thought. Convenience is the sole measure."
Alan Blay - Human Evolution
One of the most amazing things I have ever seen was on TV about 10 or 20 years ago. This showed an event at Bristol zoo where there was a large sunken area surrounded by a lowish viewing wall. This allowed the public to watch the actions of a number of gorillas. Suddenly, shock horror!, a small boy fell over the wall and lay senseless on the concrete floor. There were cries of alarm as a large gorilla ambled over to the boy. Amazed, they then saw the gorilla lean over the boy and stroke the boy's cheek with the back of his paw. He did not harm the boy in any way but merely showed concern. About 5 or so years ago, I saw another interesting TV programme in which there were demonstrations of some experiments carried out with a chimpanzee. Obviously, there must have been quite a bit of training. One saw the animal seated in front of a computer screen on which there was a sudden display of a random distribution of six digits. These would disappear from the screen when touched. The chimpanzee immediately touched the lowest number and then the others in rising sequence so that the screen was cleared. Several times, he cleared different random spatial distributions very rapidly and without any hesitation. As a finishing touch, a young lady, an Oxford graduate, tried performing the same task, and was demonstrated to be less expert. {I feel sure that sex and university had no influence!} These experiences indicated to me that we do certainly have fairly close links. If a small human baby could be nurtured and brought up by gorillas or chimpanzees, he would have very few of modern man's elements in his make-up. The key to our advancement was our development of an ability to speak and accumulate knowledge. Alan B. 16-2-06
Prof Graham Sewell, Imperial College, London - Sug
Given that many (if not most) aspects of modern life are experienced in or through organizations (e.g. work, education, health care, religion, etc.) why not a program on 'Max Weber and Bureaucracy'? Of course, Weber has been one of our most influential thinkers on many other things including religion, the epistemology of the social sciences, and the nature of modernity so the program could be very wide-ranging. Also, as a thinker Weber is often held up (mistakenly in my view) as the liberal antipode of Marx. Could make for an interesting debate.
Michael McIntyre, scientist and musician
I enjoyed this morning's on human evolution. Did I, though, sense the usual unconscious assumption that the beginning of art, culture and symbolism coincides with the beginning of their archeological record around 50 millennia ago? But music, poetry and dancing needn't leave any archeological trace. Sound waves and light waves are so terribly ephemeral. There are powerful reasons why what we call art, culture and symbolism should be much older. I try to discuss this carefully on pp. 19-20 my Kobe Lecture "Lucidity, science, and the arts: what we can learn from the way perception works" at http://www.atm.damtp.cam.ac.uk/people/mem/kobe-lecture.pdf
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