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OPIUM WARS
yusuf williamson
Its interesting that the commentators suggested some positive elements of the opium wars in reopening china to trade.However it surprised me that although this was used by Chinese nationalists to campaign against foreign influence, in the modern age amongst young chinese students the incident has very limited historical significance. In a similar way I detect little bitterness in modern Japanese and Filipino students when their respective nations had 'free trade' agreements foisted on them with war in one hand and a treaty in the other.Is this just polite students or have these events been forgotten or in the way the academics in todays programme were doing - is it being rationalized to minimize the humiliation associated with these events ( which all national histories have)!
J.H. Park- Opium War
Great contribution or Great humiliationWhatever diplomatic complication over these wars, it is undoubtedly 'true to say that "Britain" benefited a great deal over the Opium wars. Opium was allowed to be shipped into China while so-called "God Sent Christian missionaries" were propagating their doctrines regardless of regional or cultural differences which had to be taken into account. My impression of the Opium wars is a bit like that over the "Christain missionaries" all over Africa, India and China that "It does not really matter to Western Christian missionaries what local culture was, Break in and lets propagate Gods gospel first and IF WE CAN earn bit of money too" "Free trade is also good for you so why dont you have it beside Christianity".
Chen-The Opium Wars
I have always loved your programme and I listened to this week's "The Opium Wars" with particular great interest, as I wanted to see how same things could be interpreted differently, and here I want to mention several points about how the opium wars are viewed by many, if not almost all, of people within China. First of all, I'd like to answer the question why Nanking Treaty and others are called "unequal", and the answer is pretty simple: because they were forced upon the Chinese people when China was defeated in wars, and there was not even a basis for "equal" negotiations. According to Nanking Treaty, Britain could get from China 21,000,000 silver dollars, the Hongkong Island, the opening of five ports as well as the rights to determine China's tarrif rate, on which the Chinese government was not allowed to make changes independently. Does this sound anything like an "equal" treaty? And that leads to the second point I want to make. One of your guests talked about its being "normal" for the Chinese to give land for peace during the Qing Dynasty. I guess none of the Chinese people would say it's "normal" because giving out land itself has always been viewed as a huge humiliation throughout the history. It is true that many emporors have done that, but it doesn't mean this kind of behaviour is acceptable, and in fact these deeds were invariably heavily criticised by people with sense of justice. Nerchinsk Treaty is slightly different in that China did not sign it as a defeated country. Quite the opposite, Russia pled for peace after its invasion forces were badly beaten by Qing armys, which led to the signing of Nerchinsk Treaty mainly as a border-defining one. It was based on an equal basis, although the Chinese side made some concessions, which are also criticised by some people as undue and unequal. So the nature of Nerchinsk Treaty and that of Naking Treaty are totally diffrent, plus there are still diffrent views about whether the concessions made in the former are justifiable, it would be improper to draw a conclusion from the signing of Nerchinsk Treaty that giving land for peace is "normal". It could only be said as humiliating. Thirdly, I personally agree with the point that the Opium Wars accelerated China's integration into the world community. Nevertheless it is worth noting that this accelerated integration and China's later development are the result of its people being waken up by the misery and abject poverty as a result of a series of wars and unfair treaties starting from 1840. No one knows whether China could have opened itself up to the outside world through reform and achieve the same development without those foreign invasions and depredations. So the wars may have some positive side influences, but those are by no means why they were fought, nor do Chinese feel thankful to those wars and treaties. And as for the saying that the wars were fought to protect the opium trade, I would just say that drug trading is by no means the correct way to balance trade deficit when the British were already aware of the harms opium brings. These are some points I want to make so that we can all see a slightly more complete picture of the history.
Harry - Opium Wars
I very much enjoy listening to "In Our Time", which covers a vast amount of intellectual territory in a lively and stimulating manner. But I do think the recent programme on the Opium Wars faled to bring out the moral opprobrium which should attach to Britain and other Western powers for forcing China to open up to trade in general and opium in particular.This was a period when Western empire building was using trade to subjugate large parts of the globe and it was only natural that efforts should be made to resist this.More generally, I believe that all peoples who came under colonial domination have been deeply scarred by their unhappy experience and are dismayed at this present time to see how little some western powers,and mostnotably Britain and the US, seem to have learned from their serious mistakes.I am surprised that Melvyn finds it hard to accept that some 150 years onfrom the Opium Wars resentment is stillstrong in China, at least among the older generation.
Stella Slade, The Opium Wars.
I was so happy to be able to listen to three experts offering their views on the Opium Wars. I knew so little about China when I came here 5 years ago compared to what I knew when I taught for just a year in India. The British Museum has an exhibition running in Beijing, and soon the Terra Cotta Warriors will come to London. These exchanges are invaluable. China respects culture, learning, language and history like no other nation. Let us learn from them, and not be snooty because they export stuff we may have sneered at, and even now they get up our noses by offering to manufacture Rovers. We cannot accept immigrants or asylum-seekers because we are so possessive about our nation.We should try to learn more, and not remain so snobbish, insular and ignorant and exclusive.The Chinese young people are eager to learn and to travel. The more mature Chinese are sensitive beyond our imagination--we don't realise that others feel and remember too.I do hope you can continue to educate us all by having some Chinese specialists tell us their views on Christianity and the Taiping Rebellion, the Boxer Rebellion, and something also on the beginnings of New China, with Sun Yatsen and the family he married into (who established the YMCA in Shanghai). And Hong Kong! And the horrors of the Cultural Revolution from some Chinese perspective. To learn about how the Chinese themselves regard us and our share in their history is a unique opportunity now. I hope our own prejudices and pride may be softened into some form of understanding and even appreciation for the Chinese experience and their emergence as a new but very old nation.How about a programme (or several) on India and China? the British have had their feet in both nations' development, but who knows how much there is to learn about these civilisations? (Now the old Colonel Blimps no longer rule them or us!)These nations are both over 5,000 years old, so much in the vanguard of the sciences and mathematics; both nations so prodigal with their artistry and sense of beauty, and both emerging as independent powers in the 1940s,just two years apart, to catch up in the twenty-first century into a world the whites considered would be theirs. China has become an addiction for me, and I don't know how I will be able to leave. To begin learning about a nation and its history and philosophies when I thought I knew so much has been a rebirth for me. I think many listeners will find your programmes equally refreshing. Thank you so much, I am really very grateful. Sincerely, Stella Slade.
Frances Wood Opium War programme
I found this very interesting and was impressed at the variety of views expressed. It was good to cover recent western publication which de-stresses the harmfulness of opium (which comes from a faintly questionable standpoint in my view) and also cover recent work proposing that the Oium Wars were a positive factor in the modernisation of China- also provocative and perhaps slightly overstated. I also greatly enjoyed the end with the 'new' nationalism lining up with the 'old' nationalism- after the opium wars you can't raise human rights. That attitude to history, the long memory and refusal to forget are very much Chinese characteristics which today's diplomats have to bear in mind. Altogether nicely provocative.
Annie Winkworth - Opium Wars
It was interesting to hear about the relevance that the Opium Wars and their perceived humiliation of China has to some of the Chinese hierarchy today. A good illustration that history matters.
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