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seth "Magna Carta in America"
In December 1641, after 4 years of delay and debate "The Liberties of the Massachusetts Collonie in New England" was enacted. Defending its religious exclusionary policies, in 1646 Winthrop et.al. compared the Bay "Fundamentalls" with the Magna Carta and English common law respecting its formidable guarantees of liberty and due process, while arguing for the colony's right to set the standard for participation in governance in open challenge to Anglicans, Presbyterians, Anabaptists and Parliament alike.
Dave .....Magna Carta
Trivially there was an ode by Stanley Holloway (him of Albert and the Lion, which went“It was due to that Magna CartaThe barons signed that of oldThat means that in England we do, as we likeAs long as we do as we’re told"More seriously it was Magna Carta, which gave us habeus corpus.This was crucial in the 18th century case of James Somersett, an escaped slave. His owner wanted him back, It was decreed that slavery was illegal in England due to habeus corpus.It took a long time for the slave trade to be abolished and slavery still existed in the colonies. Indeed the was part of the process which led to the American declaration of independence. A colony based on slavery and the genocide of the Indians could see the way the wind was blowing.I want a programme on great brainwashimgs of history. For example last year’s stuff about the First World War. 90 years on free mags in the Guardian etc,So why do some war memorials say 1914-1919? And who was at the bedside of Victoria Saxe Coburg Gotha as she died? Who bombed the Greeks who had been fighting the Germans 1946? Who rearmed Japonese prisoners of war in Vietnam? Who gave the Taliban stinger missiles and then offered to buy them back? Many other examples. But I have strayed from the point enough for now
Magna Carta
Was it just me or were there embarassing pauses this week? It was as though the "experts" had run out of things to say..
Jonathan re Magna Carta
Again, as ever, brilliant and fascinating. Simply the best programme on air - anywhere. But three mediaeval historians ... where were the lawyers? We heard a little, but perhaps we might have heard some more about the relevance to and impact on the common law of our days and its influence on the law in other lands? One of your American listeners suggested something on the influence of English law on US law. Perhaps I might suggest as a future topic: the development of the Norman and English Common Law, and if there is time left (always a problem on your programme, the wide scope - and why it is so good!), its and influence on other countries and contrast and comparison with Roman and civil-code jurisdictions. Just a suggestion...
Andrew-Magna Carta
As Tony Hancock once declaimed, "What aboutMagna Carta, did she die in vain!"
R Hastings on Magna Carta
I was curious as to why there seemed to be very little regard to the effect that Richard 1, John's elder brother and largely absentee predecessor sovereign, had on Johns future attitude's and general behaviour. It seems obvious that he felt personally, somewhat of an inferior to Richard, given that he conspired to and committed treason against him during Richard's imprisonment whilst returning from the crusades, for which he was benignly forgiven. It would seem to me to be quite relevant that the dynamic between these brothers would have been a obvious root cause for Johns supposedly ugly behaviour and bad reputation.
John - Magna Carta
The King’s will could be bound by law he didn’t just have a divine right to rule. There was now the idea of the consent of his subjects. The Magna Carta laid down what the barons took to be the recognised and fundamental principles for the government of the realm and bound king and baron’s alike to maintain them. No man should be punished without fair trial, that ancient liberties generally should be preserved, and that no demands should be made by an overlord to his vassal( other than those recognised) without the sanction of the great council of the realm. King John had lost God’s favour in the eyes of the barons due to his losses of money and battles and his unjust treatment of the barons through extortionate taxes and seizure of lands. Clause 61, allowing 25 barons to seize power from the king, was later dropped and the king had reneged on it prior to dying backed by the Pope. Feudal monarchs who like Johnacquired a reputation for injustice, always found themselves confronted by feudal rebellion. Phillip of France on the other hand cultivated a reputation of justice towards his vassals. Johndid not inspire confidence in his troops and therefore lost Normandy.With his victory at the Battle of Bouvines, Phillip gained the centre ground in Europe and with this proof of John’s wickedness the baron’s revolt forced John to grant themMagna Carta. Stephen Langton, the Pope’s appointee as the Archbishop of Canterbury (opposed by John to his and England’s cost), gets a good deal for the Church, as the reconciler between the barons and the king, set out the Magna Carta binding the king to the law of God. Habeus Corpus, innocent until proved guilty and trial by jury are all important practices that are offshoots of the charter. IOT broughtup the way this was used as opposition to the king in the English Civil War. That it also implies the citizen hasprotection against his government we should also remember in these times with the erosion of civil liberties on behalf of security.This is historynever more worthy of remembrance than now.
Magna Carter
An instructive discussion which leaves me wondering whether the timing has anything to do with the state and its present high handedness with civil liberties. Perhaps now Melvyn Bragg is pulling out of TV he will have more time to engage with these issues? Dona
Magna Carta
I was disappoined that Alexander II of scotland never got a mention. After all it was his support of the barons, he marched his army into England, helped capture London and then marched his army to dover to meet up with the french Dauphin. Hisactions in support of the Barons forced John to concede to the will of the Barons.
Steve "Magna Carta"
I loved this weeks' programme and found it really interesting. The subjects of Magna Carta and King John are from such a long time ago, yet they compel us still. For those interested, a light dramatisation of the events at Runnymede can be found on www.shortbreadstories.com (Dangerous to Know).
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