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S.Stewart - Jaipur Observatory
I thoroughly enjoyed the discussion and, having visited the Observatory over 20 years ago but found no explanation there regarding the size or specific function of the "scultures" there, the programme explained a lotthat had puzzled me. Thank you.
Jaipur Observatory and ‘Orientalism’. Christopher
This was a fascinating and enlightening programme, for me especially as I had travelled overland to India in 1963 with three other young people plus the Hon. Penelope Betjeman, who took us along to Jai Sing’s remarkable astronomical observatory in New Delhi, similar to that in Jaipur. Also I had been at school with one of the sons of the Maharajah of Jaipur, whose mother was considered to be one of the most beautiful women in the world.I was however disappointed to hear the word ‘Orientalism’ - the Western myth of the Orient - used in Edward Said’s disparaging sense by one of your contributors, as if it were now an irrefutable fact. Said explained its meaning in ghastly jargon as ‘an activity by which a hegemonic discourse represents the other … in narratives of oppression’, which can be more simply expressed as wrongly viewing the East from a superior ideological vantage point, and in romantic but essentially negative terms. The first time I heard the word used in this sense was when I was researching my biography of Cumbria’s lyrical poet, Susanna Blamire (1747-94). She had described her experience of suffering a severe bout of Rheumatic fever, by using the metaphor of a hot and pitiless desert. But crucially, she portrayed her recovery in extremely positive terms: of accepting conveyance offered by a caravan travelling to Mecca. An academic friend commented to me almost without thinking: ‘That’s a typical example of Orientalism’. I was angered by the fact that it obviously was not, and that the persisting mindless and politically correct use of Said’s concept of ‘Orientalism’ needs rigorous questioning. Perhaps Said's 'Orientalism' would be an interesting subject for one of your programmes?Christopher Maycock
David Neckar: Carthage
I was diasppointed with the Carthage program where the contributors too frequently fell back on facile contemporary comparisons (e.g."Blue Peter", which even MB couldn't take). It felt very superficial to me and not up to the usual standards of IOT.
collie The Observatory At Jaipur
Most interesting & all new to this listener. Were there any women scientists or sciene students at Jaipur? I don't want to make a feminist case but believe that women can manage science as easily as men can.
Peter Wright: Jaipur
I spent two days at the Jaipur observatory in 1982. I did not know about it until I arrived in the city and I was naturally astounded (back in Cornwall I had been making a study of the history of sundials and mass clocks around the county.)I had the privilege of joining the local astronomer in a lightproof room in the base of the Great Yantra (the largest sundial with the staircase gnomen). There at noon, against two marble quadrants, he measured the declination of the sun via it’s projection down the dark tower from two holes at the top of the instrument, holes about the size of tennis balls. An old bronze ring with cross hairs was used to centre the image on the marble quadrants, each side of the small room. I was told that the moon could also be measured in this way. Venus and Mars also gave off enough light.Towards evening, wild monkeys chased each other around and over the instruments, a magical site!
Roger Moses Jaipur Observatory
I found the historical discussion fascinating and informative, it put the apparent obsolescence of the observator(ies, there were 6) in a revealing cultural context.The science was more patchy, tending to paint indian astronomy in a rather oldfashioned, conservative and catch up the west light. There was no mention of Aryabhatta 1; Born in 476 CE in Kusumpur ( Bihar ), Aryabhatta's intellectual brilliance remapped the boundaries of mathematics and astronomy. In 499 CE, at the age of 23, he wrote a text on astronomy and an unparallel treatise on mathematics called "Aryabhatiyam.His nearest equivalent in western science is Isaac Newton, in that the science depends on mathematics that is either completely new, or applied to the real world for the first time, including the use of zero, and a partly heliocentric system wit very accurate observed and calculated results. He is part of an indian scientific tradition which uses phlosophical concepts that sit with modern astronomy and physical science very comfortably, and continues very fruitfully today.
jane - Jaipur Observatory
Really loved this programme. As well as being a 'quarter' more than other men, Jai Singh seems to have been very wise too, seemingly recognizing the fundamental importance of culture as well as science. One summer's afternoon, I remember taking my daughter (then two) to visit my father. As he silenced the lawn mower he said "you'd know it was a girl in the garden because a boy would have come straight over here to investigate the workings of the machine whereas a girl simply looks, understands that the grass is obviously being cut and with no further interest, continues on her way. (My son later corroborated this statement!) If this sounds politically incorrect, it's still what the majority of parents would nod in agreement to. A lot of science ends up in useful roles, but much of science is simply the natural and often male need to unravel and to understand 'mechanisms'. Admirable and intelligent as this trait is, I think that it should be objectively understood in relation to the 'pecking order' of what is important to society. ('Though it didn't apply to Jai Singh's situation, the now restrictive construct of 'money' obviously imposes a need to compromise and prioritise.) The purpose and use (or not) of science requires the implementation of great wisdom. Regarding astrology, I am not Asian, but for very practical reasons had expert vedic astrological charts drawn up for both of my children. In one aspect, they read largely like a genetic blueprint of the parents - not because they could be construed this way or that, but because they were very specific and blatantly reflected the genetic legacy. I suggest that nobody deride the real and very precise science of astrology without considerable study and experience of it. It would be arrogantly unintelligent to do so. For me, the programme pointed me in the direction of our need to make sense of the outer reality we are interfaced with. Many scientists find a happy way of fulfilling their life and obligations through their work but I think it probable that maybe, in the scientific obsession with the "material world", we are getting things upside down - a bit like a Beethoven score in relation to the actual music...the score is the means. It's difficult to think outside of the paradigm, but science is just one way of relating to the universe. Although astronomy was his passion, Jai Singh's background probably gave him a different perspective on scientific exploration than our western one produces. The mind has different strata and the intellect is but one. There are layers that speak in an instant symbolism which, paradoxically, carries a veracity not yet possible in the fragmented view which the intellect creates. Everything holds together inter-connectedly. Science is a tortuous path whereas the truer perspective is always known in an instant. Science is separation, whereas 'truth' is an incredibly obvious 'wholeness'. Our bodies know this deep down - in spite of huge genetic influence, the body holds much more than its biological history. I know that my perspective tends to appear abstruse, but the catalyst for my esoteric perspective is largely my innate pragmatism. The reason is very much a solidly practical one..... plus the fact that I once read that the average life of a scientific theory is six and a half years....not exactly a trustworthy bedrock hey! Best wishes and thank you for a really enjoyable programme. ps The picture of the wonderful observatory looks like the meeting of science and art ....or is that how it should be!
Paulpic Jaipur
Naked eye astronomy is the way to go. If it wasn't for all the lights at night it'd still be worthwhile (the astronomy part, that is) for the amatuer to have a place like Jaipur.
Jon Tanner: Jaipur Observatory.
I am surprised that no mention was made of Tycho Brahe, whose somewhat similar observatory was built over 100 years before those of Jai Singh.
Rashid Karapiet Jaipur Observatory
Fascinating as always but why was there no mention of Jai Singh's other observatory at New Delhi, a landmark memory from my childhood which I visited again in 1998? Is it not still there?
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