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Jane - Sir James Jeans,,,an apt quotation
Today, armed with my chosen books, I once again took my son to play at a "fun warehouse" and amidst the general cacophony and cries of "pizza and chips?" or "cheese toastie?" read these words written by Sir James Jeans which, to bring a weekly as well as general relevance, Thoreau would have probably understood empirically as well as intellectually : "Phenomena come to us disguised in their framework of time and space; they are messages in cipher of which we shall not understand the ultimate significance until we have discovered how to decode them out of their space-time wrappings". Good, hey. For me, they sit aptly poised on a schismatic line which IOT has unintentionally and rather wonderfully carved, (evidenced by the responses on this site relating to science, religion, philosophy etc.). They also take upon themselves a vast area of what shows itself, to human perception, as dichotomy. I hope you like them as much as I do - they seemed particularly apt to post here. Best wishes as always.
Alan Quinn Walden Pond
My wife and I were in Concord last October - an interesting town. We saw Walden Pond as we came into town on the train. On enquring in the town at the tourist offfice we were told there was nothing to see of Thoreau's cabin and the walk out of town was hardly worth the effort. Our 'Lonely Planet' book publ.2008)says there is nothing there but a cairn to mark the spot where Thoreau's cabin stood. I am puzzled therefore that your speakers describe the modern replica! I would be upset to think I missed it!
B W Edginton: Thoreau
Thoreau's self-sufficiency was not compromised by his mother! You mentioned it three times on the programme; it seems to be in danger of becoming received wisdom! The 'contradiction' is bogus, like most contradictions applied to Thoreau's life. Sons visit their mothers and mothers cook and clean for their sons, even for Henry Thoreaus. It's what mothers do. His hut was a short walk from his mother's house and he sometimes went to see her. Nothing wrong with that! There was no lock on the door of his hut and he got pretty tired of women who pried into his cupboards and bed when he was not there - "How come Mrs Green came to know that my sheets were not as clean as hers?" Does that sound like a contradiction of his self sufficiency? His experiment at Walden Pond was never compromised by any advantage he might take of the society, or of the State, from which he "signed off." Nevertheless, consider yourselves warmly patted on the back for making a programme about Henry David Thoreau (The first in 18 years!) We could do with Radio Thoreau, much as the Americans get radio stations devoted to evangelical religion. (He's a good deal less sinister than evangelical religion!) What we get in the British media is wall-to-wall nature-phobes - broadcasting, newspapers, publishing. Mother Nature herself is commandeered by the middle-brows - BBC Natural History! Any slight crumb of comfort from your programme is worth celebrating. The whole world needed Thoreau in the 20th century. It chose the exact opposite. Try to imagine a credit crisis under Thoreauvian principles - a man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to do without, the cost of a thing is the amount of life required to be exchanged for it. Most importantly, "It's no good telling me you work hard for your gold; so does the devil work hard." Thoreau said he could live quite happily in many a man's tool-box. We still need Henry David Thoreau - do we have to wait another 18 years? (Roughly one eighth of Walden was read on Book at Bedtime in 1991. It was narrated very pleasantly - too pleasantly - by William Hootkins. A number of slight ommissions completely inverted Thoreau's meaning.)
Jane - Thoreau
Is it such an issue that Thoreau sometimes ate and had clothes washed at his mother's house? Did he actually lie or just not mention it for whatever reason? It doesn't detract - I mean even if he lied, we humans have our 'feet of clay' and 'lifemanship' is surely something we've all been a little guilty of here and there. He probably hoped his work would be taken seriously, but I doubt he ever expected to be 'deified'. A square meal is surely no bad thing and who's to say he didn't try washing his smalls in Walden Pond only to find they'd turned green. I personally find it irrelevant. I've unearthed a book I once bought called "The Secret Teachings of Plants" by Stephen Harrod Buhner. It has many quotations from Thoreau, Buckminster Fuller, Goethe and several others. Emerson wrote: "It was a pleasure and a privilege to walk with (Thoreau). He knew the country like a fox or a bird, and passed through it as freely by paths of his own. He knew every track in the snow or on the ground, and what creature had taken this path before him. One must submit abjectly to such a guide and the reward was great. ........ He drew out of his breast pocket his diary, and read the names of all the plants that should bloom on this day, whereof he kept account as a banker when his notes fall due. ...His power of observation seemed to indicate additional senses. He saw as with microscope, heard as with ear trumpet, and his memory was a photographic register of all he saw and heard." Quoting Thoreau: "It is the marriage of the soul with Nature that makes the intellect fruitful, that gives birth to imagination." and "It is by obeying the suggestions of a higher light within you that you escape from yourself and, in transit, as it were, see with the unworn sides of your eye, travel totally new paths." Sharing his fireside would have been a thoroughly enjoyable way to spend evenings wouldn't it. The book says that he had been compiling a great many observations on plants just before his death 'though no-one knows what he was going to do with them and that even 'though he wrote prodigiously for many hours each day, his handwriting was horrendously bad and almost unreadable hence the delay in publishing. Recommended books are: Odell Shepard "The Heart of Thoreau's Journals" Dover ed. reprint 1961; Robert Bly "The Winged Life:The Poetic Voice of Henry David Thoreau" San Fransisco: Sierra Club 1986; David Henry Thoreau "Faith in a Seed" Washington DC.: Island Press 1993; "The Journal of Henry David Thoreau" in fourteen volumes.NY: Dover Publications 1962; "Walden and other writings of Henry David Thoreau" Ed. Brooke Atkinson. NY: Random House 1937; "Wild Fruits" NY: Norton, 2000. I just think he was one of those wise and wonderful human beings who walk our planet all too infrequently. Bit like Melvyn - hey. (Many a true word...). Best wishes to all.
John;Thoreau
A very leisurely discussion almost like a release from Darwin, the heavyweight.Emerson is most probably more famous with his ideas of the Oversoul and Transcendentalism.As aUnitarian Thoreau believed Jesus was aman,not divine.He was influenced morethan Emerson by the German Romanticswhereby Nature manifests a divine planwhich is all-enveloping.Idealism,subjectivity and intuition(inner feelings) are the guide.One must wonder all the same howself-reliant Thoreau really was in hismanufactured hut when his meals and washing were done by his mother and sister.His book gives a great sense of independence in the wilderness but there are a great many things he said he did that he didn't and I wish thatMelvyn had explored this more.He obviously was a man of great principleseulogising the Indians and activelyagainst slavery,supporting John Browne,going to jail for non-payment of taxes,a pacifist who believed in civildisobedience and withdrawing from social life to contemplate the divinityin Nature.One can't help feeling thatthere was an element of fakery in hisidea of living off the land.I felt thediscussion was a little lazy and lacked rigour where it mattered.
Jane - Thoreau
I'm fed up with my usual verbosity so am wondering if I can be concise. Here goes.....In terms of Thoreau's life and philosophy - "One man's meat is another man's poison". Introverted naturalist = meat... extrovert civil engineer = poison. Thoreau's perspective in relation to progress - "One man's meat is another man's poison" which (terse as I'm attempting to be) has to include the double edged sword of progress (a controversial subject in itself) the negative of which could, if a little wisdom and common sense were applied, largely be avoided. The 'people in power' nearly always choose what is 'meat' for them, not necessarily for others. Also - I recognized the subject within about ten words of Melvyn's introduction as relating to Thoreau because it is through quotations that I know and delight in him - he is much quoted. I believe that he "put his money where his mouth is" far more than Emerson did. Does the fact that he is such a popular figure tell us something about ourselves? Human nature has become complexly dichotomous. MUST STOP!!! Best wishes and thanks as always.
Paulpic Walden walled up
It seems like Thoreau focused on the minutiae of life to avoid the big picture. The 'desert fathers' seemed to withdraw for the exact opposite reason.
Thoreau
Interesting programme. Concord however is pronounced Con-curd, as in cheese, not Con-corde, as in the defunct supersonic jet plane.Also, it must be pointed out that Thoreau was at heart a sceptic, which evolved out of his powers of observation. He didn't accept conventional wisdom because it didn't agree with his experience.RegardsGlenn HarmonPortland, Maine USA
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