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David McDonagh THe Great Fire of 1212?
Reading through the newspapers about 20 years back, I read a "Did yot know?" box that told of a great Fire of London in 1212 that resulted in more deaths & covered a larger area than the one of 1666. I did not look it up till years later but found no sign of it in any of the books I looked in. Does anyone know about this?
Jane - The Fire of London
Oh I do love triumph over adversity - the Phoenix from the Ashes! The programme reminded me, in one sense, of the one on the Black Death which also showed the intrinsic resilience of challenged people. Despite the scale of the trauma the post fire management seems to have shown an incredible degree of rational intelligence and enterprise. Looked up polymath Robert Hooke on Wikipedia and he's a subject in himself (it did say that on a daily basis he had to deal with people trying to opportunistically gain more land). I just hope it wasn't "the coldest winter for eighty two years" as the timing was seasonally challenging. In Mainz, (graced by Chagall's wonderful stained glass windows) the street signs from medeival times were coloured to indicate the direction of the Rhein in case of fire - don't know if it was common practice - 'twas certainly common sense. I'm thrilled by next week's programme on the physics of time - what a brilliant choice. We coin it by name, but if you start to ponder the nature of time it becomes more and more illusive. Try it. Some methodical types organized it into chronos, calendars etc.. Nature has cycles and processes within it. Our consciousness richly travels 'through' it. It's even been turned into a commodity. In truth, to me it appears pretty enigmatic - a dimension of sorts. I read about an experiment in which some (dedicated!) Russian scientists took themselves underground for months on end away from normal points of reference. Their relationship with time altered and their bodies fell into more of a twenty five hour circadian rhythm. Anyway, I'll keep wading through 'it' until next Thursday - sparkling with anticipation. Thanks for another really great programme. Best wishes.
Ray Marsh. Fire of London
Excellent programme again.Lisa Jardine, as ever, was very informative and easy to listen to.
Bankside ale-house
Wasn’t the little ale-house on Bankside supposed to be the Anchor? Though it seems quite big to me!
Jonathan Sawday -- Great Fire
Very interesting to read the responses to the programme. Here's my take on some of the queries raised:1. Pudding Lane / Street? For me, its definitely 'Lane.' Sometimes one gets confused in the heat of the discussion, though! As an aside, the hierarchy of streets, lanes, alleys, and courts seems to have become more formalised after the fire and the subsequent survey of London by Hooke et al.2. The fire got rid of the plague? I remember being taught this as a child, but it seems that there's nothing to substantiate this view. No doubt plenty of rats (the carriers of the plague) survived the fire. Certainly at least one cat did (see Samuel Pepys)!3. The rebuilding. I don't know what work has been done on the effect of the rebuilding on wage rates / unemployment in the 1670s and later. I guess that if you were a glass maker (say) in London in 1667, you'd have been pretty busy... Perhaps the place to start looking here would be T. F. Reddaway's classic, The Rebuilding of London after The Great Fire (1940).4. Casualties: one of the curious things about the Fire is how low the casualty rates were. The traditional figure is that just eight people died directly from the flames, though there have been attempts to look at these figures again. But an event which takes place over a series of days (as did the Fire) is going to produce different casualty figures when compared to one that happens very suddenly.5. Victoria Rowe's question, 'was there a cover up?' is very interesting. No, there most definitely wasn't: ballads, poems, sermons, newsbooks all announced and described the fire and were widely heard / read. The London Gazette carried reports of the fire. Royal proclamations on the need to rebuild were printed and distributed, so no cover up there, either. But Victoria's question echoes another puzzle: very few plays on the Restoration stage post 1666 seem to allude to the Fire, whilst much less important topical events get referred to in a very knowing way. On parishes outside London collecting for the distressed victims of the Fire, I seem to recall that Cynthia Wall's book (see further research bibliography on this site), has things to say. But why the specific parishes which Victoria has looked at didn't mention the fire I have no idea. A puzzle.Jonathan
Hugh L'Estrange - Fire of London - Architecture
I believe that one of the reasons the fire spread so quickly was that in those days the joists supporting the floorboards ran from side to side, resting in the party walls. They were therefore very close to - if not actually touching - the joists in the neighbouring house, and created a conduit for the fire to spread from one house to the next. Ever since the Great Fire of London floor joists have to run from the front of the house to the back.
Michael Allen
It's hard to believe that everyone or even most people fled from their burning houses with their deeds in their hands, as Lisa Jardine said. I checked to see where mine were earlier on!
Peter Bolt : Great Fire
I recall be told many years ago that quite a few families took the compensation and emigrated to the West Indies using the money to invest in plantations.
saippuakauppias
ooh, wasn't that cracking? good banter and losts of loose ends to be pondered over. I think a whole programme on the flaneur or the A-Z would be in order. thanks
THE GREAT FIRE OF LONDON
Great programme. I really enjoyed learning in detail about this tragic event.
BritishWinterTime
Really super program imho. Real History.
The Great Fire Of London
Why did Melvyn Bragg switch from saying Pudding Lane to Pudding Street - which he said twice. Did I miss something? I always thought it was Pudding Lane. Not that it matters much, but I think we should be told ...
Gareth Wain - Fire of London
Very good programme. When discussing the cause of the fire there was no mention of the conspiracy theory that some wise souls saw the fire as an opportune way of wiping out the settlements where the plague flourished. Any thoughts?
David Lindley Great Fire of London
Very interesting programme.I am interested in the results of the fire. Did labourers and builders flock into London after the fire to gain employment in the rebuilding of the city? Did more work eventually mean greater riches, more tax collected, and for a time less unemployment?
Sheila Cooper - Level of discussion
What a fascinating programme. It was almost as if these guests made a prior arrangement to refer to each other during the discussion so that s/he with the most knowledge on any particular aspect would be able to speak. This discussion flowed like no other I have heard on In Our Time.
In our time-Fire of London
As the fire burnt at a heat 10 times hotter by far than a crematorium in fact a firestorm, Any poor person caught, cripples, beggers, or old people were totally turned to dust, bones and all,and mingled with the dust from the burnt wood. There is a good book that explains this
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