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Riddle of the Sands
I got caught up in last week's programme and a spooky memory came back to me. When I first married in 1972 we lived in Nigeria, three different areas. We used to have this game with each other if we saw a Nigerian reading a paper back, we would bet each other its title would be Riddle of the Sands and it always was. If you saw a neglected book lying somewhere it was always Riddle of the Sands. Now you might think the Missionaries had brought the book over in their millions but in fact it was easy to buy books, they were cheap and readily available. We lived there for seven years and it was always "Riddle of the Sands", why, can someone tell me.
Linda Mesney The Riddle of The Sands
Have just followed this on the Listen Again facility. Very interesting as are peoples added comments. I would just like to support the listener from Glasgow (the Alexander Technique teacher) who comments about the difficulty following such discussions when the speakers have to hurry and speak fast in developing their points. I think this is true of modern broadcasting as a whole and I am increasingly aware of it. Partly as I, too, grow older but also when I try and explain, summarize or interpret many extracts of programmes for my very elderly Mother (96) It is not just a question of hearing, but distinguishing sounds when they are blurred together in fast speech, and also of following logic in complex points. Often one word, if missed, can change the whole meaning of the argument. It is such a shame when the content of the programmes are so fascinating, but requires of the listener considered thought, as with In our Time type of discussion. Perhaps some Alexander Technique training for broadcasters? Time may be short in a news presentation but not in such programmes, since if the content merits it the discussion can be continued another week!
David in Brussels- Germany's war plots
The three wars of Germany, the 1870 Franco-Prussian war and the two World Wars, have a common thread or plot that was not really emphasized by the panel. War aims are clear from the State archives. In the Franco-Prussian war, Germany took the iron ore deposits of Lorraine and other strategic raw materials of Alsace. In WW1, it wanted newly discovered richer deposits in France. In WW2 it was a question of deposits elsewhere and oil in Russia. Hitler tried autarky and failed. Chemicals from coal and steel for warships and guns were vital for the war industries. They were also the controlling priority of the European economy. Cartels ‘bought’ political parties. This lesson was learned by Europe’s founding fathers. It was the basis of the European Coal and Steel Community when Schuman introduced a revolutionary, deeper form of democracy to unite existing democratic States and initiate the world’s first international anti-cartel agency. It started Western Europe’s longest period of peace – ever. Political parties today seem to have wilfully forgotten this and the recent so-called reform treaties, wisely rejected by the Irish, French and Dutch populations, are in fact a reprise of selfish ‘old politics’ of the ‘Prussians’ and de Gaulle. Have parties also forgotten that raw materials, oil, food, are the lifeblood of modern nations and that honest, just and open democracy needs not only to be applied in the European Union but on a world scale to wean the economy off planetary disaster? I hope the programme will not neglect drawing lessons from their time to our present and our future.
f m steiner: atrocities in france in 19th centurt
This week`s programme stirred memories of the diaries of Mrs Belloc Lowndes, elder sister of the polemicist and and poet Hilaire Belloc. As a small child she lived in Paris before and during the Franco Prussian war and recalled the scandalous behaviour of Prussian troops towards civilians What shocked them most that the enighbouring estate and chateau which belonged to a formerFrench envoy in Berlin was spared from any even minor larceny or trheft on the express order of the king of Prussia. In other words the savagery of the troops was not spontaneous but could be turned on and off at will, the force being really well disciplined when their officers wanted it.
Professor Robert Giddings RIDDLE OF THE SANDS
Splendiddiscussion of a rather neglected area of cultural history as far as the British are concerned, I'm afraid. It is a fascinating area. Germany was rather softened towards Shakespeare as a result of the Englishe Komedianten, touring actors companies that came to the German states after the Puritans closed the theatres. Must not under rate the courage anc intellectual integrity of the greatLessing, who assaul.ted French classical tyranny in Literature Briefe. He was also a considerable dramatist, I think. Schlegel and Tieck as you all agreed are very important. Their translations are really "classics" in thekr own class now. Old Bill sounds quite good in German. And the Romantic rediscovery of Shakespeare would not have happened without the accellerant of Schlegel inspiring Coleridgle so well. And then there are the Grimm Brothers -- and so much more...An exciting and stimulating programme.Bob Giddings
The Riddle of the Sands-12/6/08
I believe that Hitler liked the film "It's a Wonderful Life" with James Stewart. Clearly,dreams of utopia can be differently executed!
Christopher Whitby - projected programme on effect
Melvyn's newsletter says "we would like to reconvene and do a programme about the effects on the 20th century of that catastrophic engagement in 1914." On our sole but nonetheless sobering visit to a WWI cemetery (Equancourt - a small rural roadside cemetery with 'only' 2,000 graves), my wife and I read the following in the visitors' book:"Dad, my children have helped me to find you. At last." Date that was written? 1985.
Alan Sennett - Anglo-German relations
I was a little surprised that no one mentioned the impact of the Boer War upon Anglo-German relations. This seems to have been indicative of the shifts taking place in Great Power alignments as Britain buried its historical antagonism to France and agreed that Germany was the main threat. German support for the the Boer Republics and the very widespread (if rather hypocritical) condemnation of the British (concentration camps etc) can only have underscored a sense of German hostility. The Riddle of Sands came out not long after the Boer War of course. - Just a thought...
The Riddle Of The Sands
I liked this wide ranging programme.It attempted to pack too much in and sacrificed depth of treatment for diversity of subject matter.But the attempt to cover such was worthy.I think Melvyn could have devoted a whole programme alone to the Riddle of Erskine Childers.In his novel which I loved he uncovers a plot by the Germansto breach British defences and it taps into the very real growing paranoia at the time towards German power.It's done as a boy's own adventure story.I also think like Orwell he distrusted the British Empire and was one of the first anti-colonialists.Although his actions show a more extreme response.The novel obviously was the tip of the iceberg but it reveals his sympathy for Britain's enemies.He wasa very brave man.When he came to be shot he stepped forward and asked the lads to shoot straight.It's also interesting that DHLawrence and his wife Frieda were driven out of Cornwall by the native authorities whodistrusted Germans in their midst.Theywere mistaken as spies.
Colin Budgey, Riddle of the Sands
Jerome K. Jerome In "Three men on the Bummel" (1900) expressed a different, affectionate but perhaps patronising view of the Germans as seen by the British. I quote:"A kinder-hearted people than the Germans there is no need for.Cruelty to animal or child is a thing almost unknown in the land."He described a people who were gentle, obedient and law-abiding, and thoughts of war never entered his head.
FromUSA - Riddle of the Sands/Topic Suggestion
Excellent program this week, as always. In his newsletter, Melvyn mentions that Patrick Leigh Fermor's beautiful "A Time of Gifts" was brought up post-show. Seems to me PLF would be excellent IOT-fodder for a future topic. Or if not a show devoted to him, how about something on the more general topic of The Adventurer? There have been so many through the ages.
C.H. -- The Riddle of the Sands
I would like to learn more about what was said about the competitiveness of German universities at the time. Could you perhaps recommend some literature on this aspect as well. Thanks.
Hornswoggler - The Riddle of the Sands
In the light of this week's BBC Trust report on the anglocentric stance of the BBC, it was fascinating to hear Melvyn and this week's panel address the subject of England's relations with Germany in the 19th and early 20th centuries. Part of the way through the programme, the penny seems to have dropped and we began hear references to Great Britain and the UK (not the same thing of, course).
Alex Lyons - Riddle of the Sands & Splitting Herrs
The IOT panel on Thursday June 12th, seemed a little perplexed as to why the Germans were painted so favourably (or normally) in Erskine Childer's novel, The Riddle of the Sands ?Nothing unusual if you know that Childers was Anglo Irish and was becoming fiercely anti British at Britain's treatment of Ireland over Home Rule. Many in the Fenian movement looked to Germany as they had to France and Spain in previous generations, to aid in the cause of Irish freedom.Indeed, taking a leaf out of his own book, so to speak, Ernest Childers and his American wife were to smuggle guns in 1914 from Germany to Howth in North Dublin aboard the Asgard, their own yeacht. Mausers etc. which would be used in the Easter Rising of 1916 against British Rule.Despite serving honourably in the Royal Navy Reserve 1914-1918, rising to Luitenant Commander and winning a DFC, Childers afetr the Great War became an even more ardent Republican and fought the British Army, Black and Tans and the Auxilleries until 1922. (He had studied Guerrila tactics during the Boer War).He was executed during the Irish Civil War in 1922 (some say as revenge for the assination of Michael Collins) and his son Erskine was to become President of the Irish Republic in the 70s. The view on Germany and the Austro Hungarian Empire was very different from Dublin than it would have been from Dublin, even on a good day. And the view of the originally Duel- Monarchist Sinn Fein Party and its supporters would have been quite different from Ireland - a country which has always looked to America or Europe rather than it's haughty, arrogant and well, let's face it,oppressive neighbour.Also the point about the Great Exhibition and the exiled leaders of Europe's 1848 revolutions finding sanctuary and solace in a progressive and Liberal London ? Ad the rest of Europe looking to England with admiring glances? Well, London surely wasn't an option for the Young Irelanders of the Irish 1848 Rising. They were at first sentenced to death and then later transported to Van Diemens Land. Britain put down its revolutions as ruthlessly as any despotic European state. Perhaps from Childers eyes Germany and Britain needed to have their simularities pointed out.
James Bell : Germany
How did Britain and Germany find them selves at war in 1914 ? Such a question might easily constitute a programme in its own right. It was a shame that it got no more than a few minutes at the end of a wide ranging discussion.Maritime rivalry is frequently given as the major point of friction between Britain and Germany in the early 20th century. It is true that German maritime power was a significant factor for Britain and demanded an appropriate response. How ever, Germany had in the preceding quarter of a century, become a major player in international trade by virtue of the size and sophistication of her merchant marine. It could easily be argued that a failure to produce a naval force capable of defending her larger maritime interests would have constituted gross negligence. The early Imperial Navy was tasked with coastal defence and commerce protection. As it developed into a blue water navy it conformed to naval orthodoxy and built ships that were deemed to be cost effective. that they added to the Kaiser's self esteem, was a powerful bonus. Given such a rationale, German naval expansion whilst unwelcome was much less alarming to naval professionals than to the press and public of France and Britain.A technical revolution now heightened tensions enormously, but it had nothing to do with Germany In 1904 the United States Navy requested funds for two new battleships South Carolina and Michigan. They were to be 16,000 tons each with eight 12-inch guns per ship. There had been acute speculation about such a style of vessel for several years. Certainly since the Battle of Tsushima. On becoming First Sea Lord in October 1904 Fisher was adamant that the Royal Navy would be a front runner in this new arms race. He established a committee that planned and then supervised the construction of a ship with radical new forms of propulsion defence and attack, and to be built in a third of the time regarded as normal. It was a triumph of innovation and scientific method.For Germany the new technology was a calamity. Her existing fleet in terms of its line of battle, ships were rendered obsolete at a stroke. Worse still was the fact that her naval infrastructure would not support the new super-ships. Apart from adapting her naval yards around the world, she would have to reconstruct the entire Kiel Canal. Germany was in a dilemma, the cost of a new fleet would be enormous the cost of adapting to the requirements of the new fleet would scarcely be less and might be more. To defend her maritime interests she must be a naval power, but to be a naval power would demand a commitment that would allow no half measures.Both sides built fleets of immense power but neither having the certainty of an automatic win. The naval race produced a stalemate.Belgium was of marginal interest to Britain. It did allow the British cabinet to rally behind a point of moral outrage and in consequence saved it from collapsing in a split.Britain's main ally was France. Yet behind the flag waving and Champagne, was a mass of vague agreements that were more equivocations than commitments. Britain had few fixed interests on the continent. She was a creature of empire. She was represented, whether as Britannia, or as a lion, with an imperial crown, and the greatest jewel represented in that picture was India.The irony was that she could not defend it. On land Britain was a third rate military power. She survived the Indian Mutiny because at any given point there were usually more Indian troops fighting in support of British power than European.Russia was the secret terror. It was supposed that Russian forces could debauch onto the plains of India in their millions. Quite how these millions would be fed and watered or how they would cope with the high passes of the Himalayas was glossed over and the matter dealt with in terms of the high drama and low cunning of the Great Game.The only serious potential threat to India was defused with diplomatic protocols and spheres of influence.In the years leading up to World War I the Royal Navy devel
Riddle of the Sands
What an interesting programme! But, as always, marred for me by the apparent need of all the contributors, and Melvyn Bragg himself, to talk far too fast, as if this was an hour's programme squeezed into forty-five minutes.For me this is a hideous infection that is spreading throughout broadcasting; noticeably, a handful of announcers and presenters have resisted the headlong rush. As an older listener, (and there are more and more of us), with the hearing loss that usually comes with age, I feel frustrated and annoyed. Many of us are greatly helped by being able to see whoever is talking to us; when this is not possible, hearing becomes more problematic.As a teacher of the Alexander Technique, I am professionally concerned with the use of the voice, and the sharp intakes of breath, and the misplaced stresses so often heard, are indicative of a disturbing lack of poise in the speaker.I suspect I am not alone in my difficulty, and I hope you may hear from others in the growing band of elderly population.Vivien Mackie, Glasgow
J.R. Lucas Riddle of the Sands
An end note to this morning's excellent account of Anglo-German relatiions.In August 1940 Hitler and his entourage relaxed by going to see Shakespeare: in Britqin the theme tuen of our defiance was the second movement of Beethovn's Fifth Symphony
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