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Stephen Fleming - Statue of Liberty
I enjoyed the programme very much and learnt a lot.One aspect that seemed to puzzle the contributors was why the statue was a woman. Why is Liberty female?Remember that all educated people at that time were taugh Classics. In Latin all abstract nouns are feminine in gender - Prudence, Justice, Science, Knowledge, Temperance, Mercy, Liberty. All these and many more are feminine nouns
Ruth - Statue of Liberty
I found this programme really interesting, but was as surprised as some earlier commentators to find your participants searching for reasons for the gender of the statue. As others have mentioned, in choosing a Classical style for the statue, it would have to be a feminine representation of an abstract idea as in the Classical world. However, what I would be interested to know is why abstract ideas (e.g. Victoria, Britannia, Roma etc.) have always been represented in this way. Are there any Classical scholars out there who could enlighten me? Or maybe it could form part of a future programme? Thanks.
The Statue of Liberty: Why is the statue female? J
An expert in public works of art and that of female statues in particular would have added great value to the programme. Asked directly, the panel failed or felt embarrassed to address the matter. However it was answered in parts, fragmented during the final few minutes of the broadcast,which made their decision not to answer Melvyn's direct question, a political one perhaps. The statue of liberty is a piece of public art and rather than just learning of the political history surrounding its arrival, I'd hoped the panel would have compared it to a that of the virgin Mary, the longest ever enduring image of a woman. Elizabeth Frink's Walking Madonna is sited in the grounds of Salisbury Cathedral and shows her as an upright, mature and self possessed, well-measured woman who's eyes have seen life. I'd waited excitedly to listen to a discourse about perhaps how women were a symbol of the goal of a man's efforts, the sweatheart waiting at home whilst the man fought on the front line, a man fighting for land, rights and a woman to soften the blows of the harsh realities of winning. I didn't expect the programme to go into details of what effect this had on women of America, France or the rest of the world but perhaps this programme on the Statue of Liberty was an opportunity missed to explore the symbolism of woman, probably the hugest statue of a woman in the world.
LIBERTY - Female representation
It was interesting to hear the panel trying to find deep reasons for choosing the figure of woman to represent Liberty. I wonder if they considered the fact that in French “Liberté” is a female noun and the choice of a female figure seems pretty obvious!
R.A.Underhill Statue of Liberty
"When I saw the Statue of Liberty sink over the horizon I knew I was free."Josephine Baker went to France.As per obituary.
THE STATUE OF LIBERTY
Sir, One of your contributors made a connection between the Statue of Liberty and Delacroix's painting 'Liberty Leading The People' and attributed the later to the revolution of 1848(sic). It was a comment upon the Revolution of 1830(!!) by which the Orleans Monarchy was installed in lieu of the government of Charles X. Your Servant, J. Fyles
James Leahy on the Statue of Liberty.
In today’s programme Robert Gildea stated that Delacroix’s painting “Liberty Leading the People” is an image from the 1848 Revolution. This is a popular error. In fact, it is an image from the July Revolution of 1830, which resulted in the replacement on the throne of the absolutist Bourbon King, Charles X, by his cousin, Louis-Philippe, from the cadet, Orléans, branch of the family. The new King agreed to rule as a constitutional monarch, and became known as the “citizen king”.Delacroix painted his work in the autumn of 1830, and it was exhibited in the Salon in May 1831. It was purchased by the French government, and hung for a short time in the Museum of the Palais de Luxembourg. Apparently, the original intention had been to hang it in the throne room, to remind the king of his undertakings! However, its political impact led quickly to its being removed from public display, to the safekeeping of the painter’s aunt. It was exhibited briefly in 1848, then in the Salon of 1855, then placed in the Louvre in 1874.James Leahy.
Dave Statue of Liberty
Three quarters of an hour nearly on Liberty, Statue of, before a participant said “ we have not mentioned slavery. “Shome mishtake here surely. Couple of years ago I was at the unlocal town hall for a meeting of members of a youth parliament, my daughter an MYPA pompous local councillor after droning on about himself for fifteen minutes said “ I believe young people should have the vote at sixteen. No taxation without representation! Where does that come from?”I wasn’t going to play his silly game so kept schtum. Silence from rest of his audience. “ The American War of Independence!” he said with triumph.I could keep quiet no longer.“ You mean if they haven’t got the vote they should shoot British soldiers?”He looked horrified. But they did. Ordinary squaddies not hofficers and gentlemen.Interested I got some stuff out of the library.It was decided that slavery was illegal under habeas corpus in England in the case of an escaped slave James Somersett in 1771. There were moves to outlaw it throughout the British Empire. However it was not till 1807 it was. But of course it still existed in America then and long after. One piece I found was a massive work on George III. “No taxation without representation? “Not many had the vote here either yet were paying more tax than the colonists. Indeed paying for soldiers to protect the colonists from being displaced by French settlers.We heard how, in the In Our Time Pilgrim Fathers programme, despite the kindness of the Indians to the first settlers Indians were massacred at Jamestown.But what surprised me was in a pamphlet written during the rebellion it was argued that the slaves and Indians should be given arms by the British Government. Argued by Dr Johnson. And supported by John Wesley. If I was American, and I have had American friends, I would not like to think my country was founded on the right to slavery and genocide either. But it was. Give me a nice Liberty statue to airbrush history with.
John Stewart - Liberty, from France with love
The Delacroix 'la Liberté guidant le peuple' was painted 1830 and not 1848 as stated in the programme. So it could be claimed as aspirational for a republic at a time when the constitutional 'July Monarchy' of Louis-Philippe was being established. However, the painting has obviously become iconic for republicanism in the way mentioned.
statue of liberty - why female figure?
I answered this question to my own satisfaction some time ago. It seems to be that the names/nouns of most abstract entities are feminine. If you write about liberty, fraternity, Britannia, Germania, in the romance languages, you have to make feminine agreements: La France est belle. So when people come to depict such entities, they depict them as females. While entities which have masculine names/nouns, e.g. winter, they are depicted as male figures. All goes back to the Greeks and the Romans (and beyond?) Seems a satisfying answer. I don't know about languages such as German, but the habit of depicting abstract entities goes back so far, that the Germans too would have inherited the custom.G Scarpa
Peter Gasson on The Statue of Liberty
The question was raised of why the Statue of Liberty is female. I suggest a relatively simple explanation: in classical mythology and iconography, abstract ideas and principles are generally personified in female form. Examples are the Fates, the Muses, and such figures as Flora. Conmpare also the figure of Winged Victory in the Louvre. And what about Britannia?
Valerie James- Statue of Liberty
RE why is she female? Maybe there is a connection with why the heroes in Japanese faery tales/myths etc are female (in "ways of being" not in sexual characteristics). When a society represses a group, the collective unconscious compensates by celebrating those repressed qualities in myths, etc.- in this instance the feminine. See for example The Japanese Psyche: Major Motifs in the Fairy Tales of Japan by Hayao Kawai, Jungian analyst. Valerie James, Senior Fellow, Director of Athena, the executive women's programme,The King's Fund
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