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Mary Haight - the Fisher King
Your experts didn't mention a haunting early 16th century poem (called 'The Knight of the Grail' in the Oxford Book of English Verse) which since it's short I'd like to quote in full:Lully, lulley; lully, lulley;The fawcon hath born my mak away.He bare hym yp, he bare hym down;He bare hym into an orchard brown.In that orchard there was an hallThat was hangid with purpill and pallAnd in that hall ther was a bede;Hit was hanged with gold so redeAnd in that bed ther lythe a knight,His wowndes bledyng day and nyght.By that bedes side ther kneleth a mayAnd she wepethboth nyght and dayAnd by that beddes side ther stondith a ston,'Corpus Christi' wretyn theron.
Dr Iain Morland / The Fisher King
I think Elizabeth is incorrect regarding the Fisher King in the Waste Land. Modernist poetry doesn't present the demise of myth in order to lament its fading, but to do precisely the opposite: to rekindle myth in the community of readers as a response to its demise. It's the same as Munch's Scream: the absence of the scream from the painting is intended to make the viewer scream at modernity, not to be silent.
Elizabeth/ The Fisher King
In 'The Waste Land' the myth of the fisher king fails and so too does the role of mythology in creating order in modern society. The roots stir and nature regenerates in Spring but the Fisher King remains impotent and unimportant with the new society too far removed from nature to see its importance anymore. Far from reinvigorating the role of myth, Eliot's 'Waste Land' is an elegy to its demise.
Steve Raybould: Fisher King / King of the Wood / P
Towards the end of the programme on the Fisher King some mention was made of contemporary references to the old legend. Most of these were the self-conscious ones - The waste land, Terry Gillams(?) film and David Lodge's Arthur Kingfisher (subtle!)etc.But after reading (parts of!) the Golden Bough and Jessie Weston's great Ritial into Romance, what fascinates me is the possibility that the story has an endless maybe unconscious fascination for its own sake. Is it a coincidence that many popular stories pick up the same themes? The James Bond 'myth' is most obvious to me - the virile, dynamic rejuvenating force (James Bond) penetrates the realm of the 'King' who is often also physically afflicted / flawed in some way (Dr No's hand, Scaramanga's extra nipple etc) and kills him.Apocalypse Now / Heart of Darkness speaks for itself (Ritual into Romance is on Col Kurtz desk).So is this 'neverending story' part of our collective unconscious, and that is why it makes a satisfying plot that can be re-told over and over?Maybe Jungian 'analysis' of myths and fairy stories could be a subject of another programme?
Roberet Giddings
The Fisher King and all that T S Eliot. Another excellent discussion, full of interesting ideas.Eliot was desperate to be taken as an Englishman. Poor bloke. He was from St Louis, Missouri and went (I think) to Washington University there in the first place. Contemporaries of his attest the fact that he had a marked St Louisian accent at this time. I taught college in St Louis and I can confirm St Louisian has quite a twang. So Thomas Stearns, Merton College, Oxford etc must have gone through vigorous elocutionary tortures in order successfully to assume those Oxbridge bankmanerish tones we all know from his recordings. Folks are often not always what they seem. Alistair Cooke (not his real name) sounded Transatlantic to us, but he was born in Blackpool. But to my Mid Western colleagues, Cooke sounded English and "classy". And Dr Samuel Johnson is always portrayed on radio (by Timothy West,recently) and television with received pronunciation, but he was a great provincial Englishman who never lost his local accent, that was strong Staffordshire. He was from Letchworth. Garrick used to imitate him to his face: "Whoo's for poonch?"etcI'll bet Shakespeare had a West Midland accent...
Beth Nixon
As an addict of all things mediaeval and all things Wagnerian, thank you In Our Time for broadcasting the Fisher King programme yesterday in pleasurable anticipation of the Parsifal opera performance on radio3 tomorrow.
The Waste Land - Kal Heylin
How come it was never mentioned that "the waste land" of Chretien's Perceval - the area which he calls "Norgals" - had Carlisle as its capital? We hear how it was "wasted" by the Kings of the Isles, so that the disinherited Perceval was forced to live in "the high moors", dressing in skins and eating porridge.The water on which the Fisher King is sighted is pretty clearly the Solway Firth. The story reads like a lament for the lost independence of Rheged, and I believe the "spiritual" associations of the grail may likewise originate in legends of the British church, which gave up its independence in the time of Charlemagne.
Anthony McGrath :The Fisher King
The Grail Legend gains potency when combined with the Mission of Christ. The 'Last Supper' is to be understood as the first Grail Meal. The Grail itself is mentioned in the vision of the Revelation of John as 'The Fountain of the Water of Life'. Pentecost is the outpouring of the power of the Grail each and every year. The promise of Parsifal is identical with the promise of Christ: that the Spirit of Truth would come to complete His Mission of bringing the Truth to mankind. As with the quest in Grail Legend, the Truth can only be perceived by the 'pure of heart' and comes as a fufilment of the Word 'Seek and Ye shall find!' The emphasis is on the word 'shall' as it is an automatic Law that we attract that which we truly long for and actively seek! The longing for the Truth is therefor the begining of the quest which must succeed if one endures!
Kathryn
Why the cut off at The Waste Land with Lodge the only contemporary writer mentioned. You can't go into a bookshop without finding shelves upon shelves of people making their living by retelling the Fisher King Legend - usually in ten volumes. And a mention of C.S.Lewis's wounded hero Ransome wouldn't have come amiss either. Interesting but ossified
Andrew Calow: The Fisher King
Might the name "Fisher King" be a mistranslation of Pecheur/ Rather than "Fisher", might it be "Sinner"?
Brian Hughes - The Fisher King &c
It’s odd isn’t it how study of myths and associated literature is generally regarded by respectable people as a Good and Cultured way of passing the time. In contrast playing computer games, queuing to see one’s favourite celebrity, doing anything invented after about 1958 and suchlike are regarded as Awful Wastes of time. Perversely queuing at a literary festival, par exemple the one that annually destroys the grass in Cheltenham’s Imperial Gardens, to get a book signed by an author of myths or stories is regarded as a jolly sensible thing to do.I favour a middle way, listening to the IOT podcast whilst playing spider solitaire and the like...
Christopher Morley on The Fisher King
Congratulations on a fascinating programme, though I think you might have made a mention of Tippett's opera "The Midsummer Marriage" with its imposing King Fisher character (Tippett was a great fan of Frazer's The Golden Bough).Also, I may have missed it, but I don't recall anyone pointing out that in French "Le Roi Pecheur" means not only 'The Fisher King', but also 'The Sinning King'.
Dave : Myths and legends
I recall being at an adult education college in North Wales. One day the warden was telling us the story of the Mabinogian with the backdrop of the Lleyn peninsula and Snowden behind him through the window of a great hall. Pure magic. Giant stepping on islands across to Ireland. You could see Brownsea Island and almost see the giant. Bron? On the way out a fellow student, an African, a trade union organizer from Uganda, turned to me and said “ and you all think that we Africans believe weird things.”Some weeks ago I wrote on this board I would like to hear from a live author on the Melvyn Bragg show rather than hear of dead ones. After the Charge of the light Brigade last week and the mythical stories of this I repeat I would like to hear from Terry Pratchett. Trouble is he is full of quotes, as someone once said of Shakespeare.Diskworld has become a cult. As you drive into Wincanton a sign says, “ twinned with Ankh Morpork.Pterry wrote a long time ago Jingo (we don’t want to fight but?), which tells of a country’s top politician deliberately spreading falsehood to justify a war he wanted. Unbelievable.He also helped write three Science of Diskworld books jointly with Ian Stewart, the brilliant mathematician who has appeared on the prog and Jack Cohen, a geneticistThey describe in one book man not as Homo sapiens, knowing man, but pans narans, the story telling ape. Myths and legends? Religions?So live authors for a change?
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