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 | In Touch - transcript BBC Radio 4 |
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| 30 March 2004 Listen to the In Touch for 30 March 2004 IN TOUCH TX: 30.03.04 2040-2100 PRESENTER: PETER WHITE PRODUCER: CHERYL GABRIEL WHITE Good evening. Later in tonight's programme we'll be getting a personal take on books and what's available for us from one of our newest recruits. But first what is going on at the top of the Royal National Institute of the Blind? Reports have reached us that the treasurer, of almost six years standing, David Gadbury has been asked to resign six months before his term of office was due to come to an end and there are suggestions that this has occurred after a pretty acrimonious row. So what exactly is going on? I've been talking to the RNIB's chief executive, who herself has been in post for just three months - Lesley-Ann Alexander. I asked her first if she could confirm the so far unsubstantiated reports about the resignation. ALEXANDER I'm surprised there's been so much interest in this particular story. The RNIB, like all other charities, has had actually quite a difficult time over the previous years and the board are absolutely clear about where they want to go, they want to reach more blind and partially sighted people, they want to be even stronger around campaigning, they want to deliver absolutely high quality services and of course delivering financial stability to be able to do all of those things is really important. Our board has had a vigorous level of debate about how we can achieve those aims and what I can assure you is that all of the board, including David, although he has now resigned, are hundred per cent behind those aims. WHITE But people don't resign before their due date without a good reason. ALEXANDER Well I was leading on to say that there has been disagreements, of course, within the board about how we get to where we need to be, rather than where we're actually going in the long term. It's healthy in a board to have vigorous debate and of course there will always be different views about how to achieve something and it's fair to say that David and some other members of the board haven't seen eye to eye on how to achieve things and so David's resigned. WHITE Given that openness is obviously an advantage in an organisation like yours, which has a customer base, can you tell us what those disagreements were about? ALEXANDER Well I don't think it's for me to illustrate who said what at particular board meetings. The board have a collective and cabinet responsibility and I don't think that's any different to any other board. What I can say is that David's financial stewardship of RNIB's resources over the last six years is absolutely not in question. WHITE So this is - there is no imputing of his name or honesty in this action of accepting his resignation? ALEXANDER Absolutely not and I can't say that clearly enough. David and the RNIB chairman have issued a joint letter to some of the members of RNIB's assembly and if I can I'll just read you one short paragraph from that. And it says: "We must first of all stress that the resignation is in no way connected to RNIB's current financial challenges. The financial stewardship of RNIB over the last six years has been sound and robust. The board unanimously confirmed this at its meeting on the 25th March and also recorded its appreciation to David for all the work he's done over the last six years." WHITE But can I just say that I mean the treasurer at this stage said he didn't want to talk to us, not yet anyway, but he did say that he was disappointed and upset by what had happened. Now that does suggest that he didn't really want to go. ALEXANDER Well I mean I can't speak for David's desires and intentions. All I can say is that as with any board of any PLC, charity, voluntary organisations there will always be disagreements about the way to do things in a board. WHITE As you've indicated the RNIB did have this large shortfall and this large gap of £6 million between what it spent and what it received, you're saying this has got nothing to do with that, but presumably it's got something to do with how you're trying to put it right? ALEXANDER David's resignation has absolutely nothing to do with the financial challenges that RNIB has faced. WHITE But he disagrees with the policy you're intending to pursue? ALEXANDER There has been a vigorous debate in the board about the policies that the board wants to pursue. And the board collectively has now decided on a way forward. WHITE Are you going to say more about this at some stage because clearly what you're not saying is what it is that you disagree about? ALEXANDER Well I don't disagree at all and … WHITE Are you going to say more about how you intend to take the RNIB's financial situation forward? ALEXANDER Absolutely, I'm going to make some very clear statements in a few months time. As you know I've been in post coming up for three months now, it just feels like longer than that sometimes, and I have been conducting a strategic review of RNIB's services and we're going to make some decisions with the board and we'll be announcing a new structure for RNIB in July. WHITE One of the things that you have had to do is make some cuts and you've just announced that Manor House, the rehabilitation centre at Torquay, is to close, something that we on In Touch said would probably happen a few months ago with quite an upset and angry response from people, why have you taken that decision? ALEXANDER Well as you say the decision to close Manor House has been coming for a very long time and it's been the subject of debate for at least 18 months now. The real decision around Manor House has been taken because of the changing external environment. RNIB has a commitment to provide services to blind and partially sighted people but we want to provide high quality and modern services. And so by closing Manor House it allows us to move services to the Somerset College of Arts and Technology, which I'm sure you'll know is an excellent college in the region and there we'll be able to provide much more focused employment rehabilitation services in a mainstream college, rather than banishing blind and partially sighted people to rehab services in what is an old and unmodernised building. WHITE But also more cheaply, people will notice, with a property that you can now sell at a fairly big profit presumably? ALEXANDER Well we need to manage our assets properly and people give us a lot of money to spend and we need to spend that wisely. And the decisions about spending money have to be based on the number of people that we can reach. And actually Manor House has been costing a small fortune to keep going and the money that we get in, that local authorities are prepared to pay for rehab services, no way near covers the services. So by moving to Somerset College we can provide a much better, more modern service to a much greater number of people and we feel that's a much better use of the resources that we've got. WHITE I mean you'll know, I expect, because certainly we've broadcast it and I'm sure you've heard it from other people, there is another view about this which is that places like Torquay allow blind people to meet and support each other at a very difficult time and the feeling was that that will be lost with Torquay. ALEXANDER Well yes I know that that's another view and we would hope not to lose the essence of that by working in partnership with Somerset. There's nothing to say that we will lose that in Somerset. WHITE I think also, just one final thing, you are also planning to close a couple of your hotels? ALEXANDER That's right and once again that's been on the cards for a very long time. We've got two fairly small hotels, once again we want to move our efforts into working with mainstream hotel providers and providing holidays in a more inclusive environment. Now we are particularly aware that a small number of blind and partially sighted people particularly value specialist holidays and that's where we're working very closely with other specialist hotel providers, such as Action for Blind People, and our closure plans, which happen after the summer, so we're honouring any of the bookings that we've got right the way up until October, and then we're working very closely, particularly with Action, to pass our existing customers to Action so that we're sure that specialist hotel provision remains in the sector. WHITE You can't avoid seeing the parallels with what you've been saying with what the Guide Dogs for the Blind Association said a couple of years ago and put the policy in place of closing a lot of its residential centres, it does sound as if you are both having to pare your services to visually impaired people. ALEXANDER Absolutely not. What we want to provide are services to a much greater number of visually impaired people and not just those people that particularly want to go to a hotel that is specific to blind and partially sighted people. WHITE Lesley-Ann Alexander thank you very much. ALEXANDER Thank you. WHITE Lesley-Ann Alexander. Well we've also talked to the former treasurer David Gadbury who, as I've already said, didn't wish to give an interview at this point but he did tell us that he was "both upset and disappointed at having to leave under these circumstances". He also said that he thinks there are concerns about the governance of the RNIB which with its £90 million turnover the public should be made more aware of and know more about how it's run. I'm sure there will be more on these stories in next week's programme. And if you've anything to add remember you can call our action line on 0800 044 044 or you can e-mail us at intouch@bbc.co.uk. Now one of my favourite themes on this programme over the years has always been what poor accessibility we have to books. Despite a range of formats we still only get a paltry choice of books, a tiny fraction of the 100,000 or more produced in print every year. Imagine walking into your local bookstore and finding that 99% of the shelves were completely empty, when you may well assume they were stocktaking. But the bare shelved analogy is a sad reality for blind and visually impaired readers searching for accessible books. Well this issue is also of interest to our newest recruit - Rob Crossan - who, having found precious little of interest at his local library decided to delve into the various processes involved in getting a book into a format we could read. CROSSAN Fewer than 1% of newly published titles make it into either Braille or unabridged audio and large print books tend only to be an option if your tastes include the likes of Penny Vincenzi and Barbara Cartland. But what about visually impaired people who not only have no desire to put their brains to rest, as far as reading decent tomes goes, but who are busy writing books themselves? Do they stand a better chance of getting their work published in suitable formats? Jane Finnis has recently completed her first novel called Get Out Or Die and she told me about the problems she's facing trying to get her book put into formats which visually impaired people, like herself, can actually read. FINNIS I contacted the RNIB to see whether they'd like to make it a talking book and also to see whether they'd put it into Braille and I contacted the National Library for the Blind. Talking Book came back straightaway and said yes they would like to put it into Talking Book and hopefully we shall be doing a deal. On the Braille side I discovered after a bit of digging that the RNIB will Braille any book that a reader sends into them. So a blind couple of friends of mine who wanted the book sent in a copy, which I gave them, and the RNIB are putting that into Braille, ready in August and then it'll be on their Braille stock and anybody can buy it from there. The National Library have never responded to my inquiry, I've always had to ring them and chase them and I've been told several times yes there's a meeting coming up, there's a selection committee coming up and I still don't know, at this time, whether they are going to put it into the library or not. It would be nice to be told. CROSSAN So if even a galvanised first time author like Jane doesn't know the selection process then what chance do the general public have? I tracked down Pat Beech, who's the director of information services at the National Library for the Blind, and asked her to reveal the workings of this mysterious process. BEECH We actually divide our book selection process up into four teams so that we can involve all the reader development team and the customer assistance team, because these are the people who talk daily to our readers. And we have a team looking at widening choices which are books more literary titles, probably first time novels, poetry, we also have the popular selection team where that is the blockbuster, the crime novel and that sort of thing. We then of course have to choose some children's books, which is what I'm particularly keen on and then there's a non-fiction team. So we involve as many people as possible and at the same time we look at what our readers have asked for, so the readers' requests come into that process. And as soon as we've made a decision about the readers' requests we let the reader know what we've decided to do. And we might not be able to do the book they've asked for at that particular time. But we'll keep it on file in case we can do it in the future. And what we also try to do is to add new books to stock throughout the year, so there's a steady trickle being added to stock to keep the stock as fresh as we possibly can. CROSSAN And how many people are in charge of these various four sections or do you have a group which overruns the whole thing? BEECH We have - I have got two library managers who are over the whole process so that they look at the final selection, so that it is truly balanced across the four areas that I've mentioned. CROSSAN So you only have two people who make these decisions for the range of titles for the entire country? BEECH No, no, no I've got the four teams looking and they make the decision and the two managers have the final say to make sure that the stock remains balanced. But the teams have made the selection and that's about nine people. CROSSAN It would seem that progress is being made, albeit slowly. But what of the Royal National Institute of the Blind itself? The [indistinct word] of this issue and surely the one more capable than any of throwing its weight around to get things moving. The RNIB's current right to read campaign addresses the issue of the lack of titles available in these formats and has the support of celebrated authors including Julian Barnes, Alexi Sale and Jilly Cooper. I spoke to the assistant director of library services at the RNIB John Godber. GODBER The good news is that things are improving and publishers are beginning to recognise that blind and partially sighted people and the media they use actually exists and some of them are now beginning to think that they have some responsibility towards making their materials accessible. But there is no legislative requirement for publishers under the DDA or anything like that to make materials available. And historically publishers and print was somewhere over in one corner and blind people were over in quite a far distant corner with their funny old Braille and tape and things like that. We would love a situation where somebody could phone their public library, go to their public library and say I'm interested in certain subjects, certain author and get the librarian to help them select and refine their choice and then to look at the database, see what's available and get it for them and just say - Well Mr Blah Blah would you like to come and pick that book up or would you like us to deliver it to your home directly? - and the local library to pay a modest fee. What's stopping it is some funding and also a question of attitudes - some libraries are beginning to do it. But libraries have fascinatingly different views about audio cassettes from the ones they have about books. Libraries will happily interlend print books, trying to get libraries to interlend audio cassettes and people sort of - Oh dear well what happens if one gets lost? What happens if one gets damaged? And you say - Well a book could get lost, a book could get damaged. And the thinking is sort of subtly different and what we really need people to do most of all is change the way they think, stop thinking about blind people and things as being something different, start just integrating it into the normal thinking, use the system that already exists in public libraries to make things available more easily to blind people. CROSSAN So according to John Godber in just a couple of years I will be doing nothing more than phoning up my local library and placing my order for the latest John Updike novel, Nigel Slatter cookery book or appalling ghost written football autobiography. And the prospect of finally being able to choose between good and bad writing is a rather exciting one. Will it ever happen though? Don't count on it. A lifetime of Rowlings rather than Ross is still very much a threat. WHITE Ah but we can't be too elitist Rob, that's Rob Crossan and I'm sure we'll be hearing much more from him and just in case you were wondering Jane Finnis is a pen name for our very own computer expert Jane Copsey, indeed those who've known her a really long time will know that it was her maiden name, if we still use that rather old fashioned expression. One other quick point, since that interview was recorded Jane has now heard that her book Get Out Or Die is being added to the stock of the National Library for the Blind. Just before we go I've got time to tell you about a new series you may be interested in here on Radio 4, it's about beauty and about how you perceive if, like us, you are blind. It's called Blind Man's Beauty and I have to own up to being the blind man in there but I will be joined by some other familiar voices offering their contributions. Here's just a flavour of the first programme. CLIP FROM BLIND MAN'S BEAUTY MUSIC I think sighted people would believe that blind people's ability to perceive beauty is probably quite limited, that's because they have a lack of imagination. For me the echo of footsteps provides landscape, an oral relief map of where I'm going and where I've been. Shards of gravel crunching under my feet. Leather, lovely soft leather. Or a stroll by the sea where the sound of shingle being sucked back by the tide conveys as strongly as vision can its power and its exciting danger. WHITE Blind Man's Beauty begins here next Tuesday at 9.30 in the morning. As always we'd like your views on anything at all connected with today's programme and you can reach us via our action line on 0800 044 044 or by e-mailing our website at www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/intouch. From me for today Peter White, producer Cheryl Gabriel and the team goodbye. 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