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Listen to this programmeFactsheet of this programmeTranscript of this programme Print this page FactsheetDIABETICS MISS OUT ON RETINAL SCREENINGThe charity Diabetes UK says government targets to have all vulnerable people screened by the end of this year are not being met. They claim that more than 40 per cent of people who should be receiving screening aren't, and a third of the people questioned didn't realise that one of the possible side-effects of diabetes was sight loss. CONTACTS Diabetes UK Careline 0845 120 2960 http://www.diabetes.org.uk/Retinopathy---is-your-vision-at-risk/Help-us-campaign/ VIRTUAL WORLDS OPENED TO VISUALLY IMPAIRED It appears many people's idea of fun is to use their computers to set up a second life or virtual world, a kind of parallel universe, in which you can do all kinds of things: buy houses, set up businesses, go to parties! But is this accessible to blind computer users? That's the question some interns began asking in IBM's labs in Dublin, and they've been trying to develop software that will enable blind and partially sighted people to join in the fun. CONTACTS http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6993739.stm MORE ON THE INTERNSHIP PROGRAMME http://www-913.ibm.com/employment/us/extremeblue/apply_emea.html COMPUTING FOR BEGINNERS Dr Mike Townsend, of the British Computer Association of the Blind, talks about workshops to help the newly blind to get the best out of computers in advance of next week’s programme which is devoted to computing for beginners. Please contact us with your questions for our experts. (See contact details above.) CONTACTS British Computer Association of the Blind RNIB, 58-72 John Bright Street, Birmingham, B1 1BN http://www.bcab.org.uk/ For further information GENERAL CONTACTS RNIB Royal National Institute of the Blind 105 Judd Street London WC1H 9NE Helpline: 0845 766 9999 (UK callers only - Monday to Friday 9am to 5pm) Tel: 0207 388 1266 (switchboard/overseas callers) Web: www.rnib.org.uk The RNIB provides information, support and advice for anyone with a serious sight problem. They not only provide Braille, Talking Books and computer training, but imaginative and practical solutions to everyday challenges. The RNIB campaigns to change society's attitudes, actions and assumptions, so that people with sight problems can enjoy the same rights, freedoms and responsibilities as fully sighted people. They also fund pioneering research into preventing and treating eye disease and promote eye health by running public health awareness campaigns. HENSHAWS SOCIETY FOR BLIND PEOPLE (HSBP) John Derby House 88-92 Talbot Road Old Trafford Manchester M16 0GS Tel: 0161 872 1234 Email: info@hsbp.co.uk Web: www.henshaws.org.uk Henshaws provides a wide range of services for people who have sight difficulties. They aim to enable visually impaired people of all ages to maximise their independence and enjoy a high quality of life. They have centres in: Harrogate, Knaresborough, Liverpool, Llandudno, Manchester, Newcastle upon Tyne, Salford, Southport and Trafford. THE GUIDE DOGS FOR THE BLIND ASSOCIATION (GDBA) Burghfield Common Reading RG7 3YG Tel: 0118 983 5555 Email: guidedogs@guidedogs.org.uk Web: www.guidedogs.org.uk The GDBA’s mission is to provide guide dogs, mobility and other rehabilitation services that meet the needs of blind and partially sighted people. ACTION FOR BLIND PEOPLE 14-16 Verney Road London SE16 3DZ Tel: 0800 915 4666 (info & advice) Tel: 020 7635 4800 (central office) Web: www.afbp.org Registered charity with national cover that provides practical support in the areas of housing, holidays, information, employment and training, cash grants and welfare rights for blind and partially-sighted people. Leaflets and booklets are available. NATIONAL LEAGUE OF THE BLIND AND DISABLED Central Office Swinton House 324 Grays Inn Road London WC1X 8DD Tel: 020 7837 6103 Textphone: 020 7837 6103 National League of the Blind and Disabled is a registered trade union and is involved in all issues regarding the employment of blind and disabled people in the UK. NATIONAL LIBRARY FOR THE BLIND (NLB) Far Cromwell Road Bredbury Stockport SK6 2SG RNIB Customer Services on 0845 762 6843 Email: cservices@rnib.org.uk Web: www.nlb-online.org The NLB is a registered charity which helps visually impaired people throughout the country continue to enjoy the same access to the world of reading as people who are fully sighted. Trustees from the Royal National Institute of the Blind (RNIB) and the National Library for the Blind (NLB) have agreed to merge the library services of both charities as of 1 January 2007, creating the new RNIB National Library Service. EQUALITY AND HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION DISABILITY HELPLINE (England) FREEPOST MID02164 Stratford upon Avon CV37 9BR Tel: 08457 622 633 Textphone: 08457 622 644 Fax: 08457 778 878 Mon, Tue, Thu, Fri 9:00 am-5:00 pm; Wed 8:00 am-8:00 pm. Enquiry: englandhelpline2@equalityhumanrights.com www.equalityhumanrights.com Equality and Human Rights Commission Helpline Wales Freepost RRLR-UEYB-UYZL 1st Floor 3 Callaghan Square Cardiff CF10 5BT 0845 604 8810 - Wales main number 0845 604 8820 - Wales textphone 0845 604 8830 - Wales fax 9:00 am-5:00 pm, Monday to Friday (an out-of-hours service will start running soon) Enquiry: waleshelpline@equalityhumanrights.com www.equalityhumanrights.com Equality and Human Rights Commission Helpline Scotland Freepost RRLL-GYLB-UJTA The Optima Building 58 Robertson Street Glasgow G2 8DU 0845 604 5510 - Scotland Main 0845 604 5520 - Scotland Textphone 0845 604 5530 - Scotland – Fax 9:00 am-5:00 pm, Monday to Friday (an out-of-hours service will start running soon) Enquiry: scotlandhelpline@equalityhumanrights.com www.equalityhumanrights.com DISABLED LIVING FOUNDATION 380-384 Harrow Road London W9 2HU Tel: 0845 130 9177 Web: www.dlf.org.uk The Disabled Living Foundation provide information and advice on disability equipment The BBC is not responsible for external websites General contacts Back to top TranscriptIN TOUCHTX: 06.11.07 2040-2100 PRESENTER: PETER WHITE PRODUCER: KAREN PIRIE White Good Evening. Tonight: why a screening programme with the potential to stop a great deal of preventable blindness isn't meeting government-set targets; and we take you to another world… Virtual worlds Yes, I know it sounds like a World War 2 submarine, but it turns out that it's anything you want it to be. We'll be finding out more about virtual worlds, and how blind people can join in with the fun, later in the programme. One of the well-known risks of uncontrolled diabetes is that it can lead to blindness. Indeed, it's the most common cause of sight loss amongst people of working age. As in so many things with blindness, early detection is a key factor in providing effective treatment. But according to the charity Diabetes UK government targets to have all vulnerable people screened by the end of 2007 are not being met. According to its research more than 40% of people who should be receiving screening aren't and a third of the people questioned didn't realise that one of the possible side-effects of diabetes was sight loss. I'm joined by Jemma Edwards of Diabetes UK. Just, first of all, can you explain what actually diabetes does to the eye, what actually happens? Edwards Well it's called diabetic retinopathy and retinopathy means changes to the retina, which is the seeing part at the back of the eye. Normally to be able to see light would have to pass through the eye to the retina without anything getting in its way. In diabetes consistent high blood glucose levels can actually damage the blood vessels in this area, which makes them either blocked or leaky or grow haphazardly and this is what gets in the way of the light passing to the back of the eye and affects the vision. White So what does the screening actually spot? Edwards So the screening takes a digital photograph of these blood vessels at the back of the eye and it will tell the person that's looking at the photograph whether these blood vessels are blocked, leaky or growing haphazardly. White And that basically tells you that there's a problem and could that then be treated quite easily? Edwards It can be treated quite easily, it just requires laser treatment. It can prevent further sight loss if you have any or prevent any further damage to these blood vessels but it can't actually reverse any of the problems that have already been detected, it can only just prevent further problems. White Now the survey says that a number of primary care trusts in England are not actually meeting their screening requirements and not going to meet this target by December. Can you give us a snapshot of what that survey tells us? Edwards The survey by the Department of Health was released a few months ago and it tells us that there's lots of areas in England that are not meeting the recommendations of providing all people with diabetes the option of having retinal screening every year. Some areas don't have a call and recall system, others are offering screening but only through private providers making people with diabetes pay for having their screening. Other areas might be offered the screening but some people might not then be taking up that offer and we may be need to think about reasons why that might be. And other areas just don't have any kind of system of screening at all at the moment. White Of course some of the PCTs that we talked to said well yes but we actually started our programme, our reaction to this, in August and it's not December yet, we can't be said to have failed yet. Edwards And that's all very good news, it's very encouraging to hear that people that were failing at the beginning of the year or a bit later on in the year are actually starting to address these problems, which is the whole point of our campaign - Your Vision - is to bring this kind of thing to light, so that people do meet these targets by the end of the year. White Can we just explain how likely this is to be a problem, I mean it's by no means inevitable is it and we don't want to scare people but we do want people to be aware of it, so do we know how high statistically the risk is? Edwards Well with retinopathy and diabetes you're 10-20 times more likely to get retinopathy if you have diabetes. That's not obviously to say that you'll definitely - there's a few things that you can do to help prevent getting retinopathy. One of which is the screening to make sure it's picked up early but in day-to-day life by keeping blood glucose levels to as near normal as possible, keeping blood pressure to as near normal as possible - all these things will help to reduce your risk of retinopathy. So no it's definitely not a dead cert. If you've already lost sight then to have laser treatment, which is a treatment to prevent it going on any worse, you're not going to get any of that sight back, it's about preventing the sight from getting worse. So it's important that we pick these things up early so that you can have the treatments early before you lose your sight. White Now it's clearly the job of charities like yours to act as a watchdog and warn people, to what extent do we know this is leading to preventable blindness? We've tried quite hard to find someone whose blindness could be said to have been caused by a lack of screening, we've been to various organisations, they've not been able to produce any, you haven't been able to produce anyone, so how certain are we that we're not crying wolf here? Edwards I think in terms of not being able to find somebody to come and talk about this is more to do with the numbers of people that we have access to. I'm sure there's plenty of your listeners that have diabetes and have retinopathy because they haven't been screened, I think that probably says more about the fact that we don't have the numbers of people willing to be case studies for us. White I mean as it happens and purely by coincidence just before we came into the studio another guest for this programme - Dr Mike Townsend - he's the honorary president of the British Computer Association of the Blind, we were talking to Mike and actually you do know of a case like this, don't you? Townsend Yes unfortunately my mother-in-law has lost most of her sight as a result of diabetic retinopathy and she had no idea that she needed to be screened and she was never offered any screening. White How long ago was this? Townsend Well she's been losing her sight over the last two, three, four years. White So Gemma Edwards where do we go from here? You obviously want the various primary care trusts to meet these requirements, what are you doing, apart from coming on to this programme to make sure that they do? Edwards Well we've launched a diabetic retinopathy campaign and that's to encourage people with diabetes to shout loudly, especially in the areas that aren't providing screening. White And for people listening to this who think that they might be vulnerable what should they do? Edwards They should either log on to our website, which is www.diabetes.org.uk where they can download a pack or they can phone our care line number and our care line number is 0845 1202960. White And presumably if you've an eye specialist you should say - Oi what's going on? Edwards Absolutely, or your diabetes team. White Right. Well no one was available to come on the programme either from the Department of Health, or to represent the primary care trusts, but we do have this statement from the Department of Health. Statement from the Department of Health We have made it clear that a high quality systematic retinal screening programme is a priority for primary care trusts. However, we recognise that the speed of progress is variable across the country and that the target is not being met in all places. That's why through the English National Screening Programme for sight threatening retinopathy and by working closely with primary care trusts and strategic health authorities we are targeting support at those areas that need it most in order to help them deliver this target. That's the statement from the Department of Health. And Gemma Edwards thank you very much. Now, one of the most important things about disability access is that it should extend to fun, as well as to purely practical things. One of my favourite examples of differing national attitudes to all this is the way that the first Braille labels on a British product I became aware of was on a bottle of bleach, whereas the French put theirs on bottles of champagne. Vive la France say I. Well, now it appears that people in the computer industry are waking up to the same thing. Many people's idea of fun apparently is to use their computers to set up a second life, a kind of parallel universe, in which you can do all kinds of things: buy houses, set up businesses, go to parties! But is this accessible to blind computer users? Well, that's the question that some interns began asking in IBM's labs in Dublin, and they've been trying to develop software that will enable blind and partially sighted people to join in. Well two of those interns Esmond Walsh and Antony Clinton sat in front of a table with a computer on it, over a conference call with us, and tried to demonstrate what they were doing. Virtual world - Reach meeting room three Clinton So now she's reached the meeting room. White But first of all I had to ask a rather more basic question of Antony Clinton - what exactly is a virtual world? Clinton Okay, well a virtual world is essentially truly a representation of the real world. So people can log in and they have a virtual person, known as an avatar and they control these avatars in the virtual world and they can do things like interact with objects, go into buildings, open doors, drive cars - nearly anything you can think of in a real world you can do in the virtual world. White But given that we've got a real world why do people want to do this in the first place? Clinton Some people just like to socialise through these virtual worlds with their friends, they think it's a bit more interesting rather than just typing away on an instant messenger such as MSN or Yahoo. And also some people are limited by physical disabilities feel they can get a little taste of what life is actually like in the virtual world, they're not limited by any disabilities. White But does that apply as much to someone with a visual impairment because this virtual world, that you describe, sounds like quite a visual world? Clinton Yes exactly and that's the problem that we've been trying to address in our project. These virtual worlds are heavily visually dominated and as you can imagine this poses a big problem for blind users. So what we've tried to achieve in our project is to provide a way of a blind user to interact and operate within a virtual world. White Doing what kind of things? Clinton Through the use of audio and texted speech we're able to relay back to the blind user information about the surrounding virtual world, such as their position in the world, other people who are in the world that they can chat to and we can feed it all back to audio to the blind user. White Now we're going to hear how that works in a moment but let me bring in Esmond Walsh. Esmond you are visually impaired and you've had a kind of dual role in this, could you just explain it for us? Walsh I was originally brought in at the start of the project as a mentor role to be able to give a perspective on how a blind person could actually operate in a virtual world. So the idea is then to be able to provide enough information in the virtual world through speech or through sound cues to be able to navigate. White Antony can you just explain how this works, give us an example? Clinton First off the user is entering the world and they're going to press a key and this is going to relay information about the surrounding area back to the user. Virtual world - There is a presentation of speech to the north west of you. There is a potted plant to the north west of you. There is a church to the north west of you. As you can hear from there the system is informing the blind user or their character in the virtual world the various objects that are around them in the world. And we also heard there towards the end that there was another character located to the north west of them. So now that they know that they're going to ask this character where the meeting room is. We have the scenario of where this blind user is trying to find a meeting room in the virtual world. Virtual world. Lola Monroe said: Hi Satana where's the meeting on? Satana Heron said: Hi Lola. The meeting ... And now she's going to cycle through some of the objects in the world and try and locate meeting room three. She can then set that as a target and use our sonar system to find her way to the actual meeting room teleport. Virtual world. Select an object to focus on. Presentation stage. Potted plant, chair, IBM ... So now that she's selected the meeting room as a target she's going to use the sonar system to locate the meeting room teleport. Now the sonar system is essentially a truly audio system in which if the teleports that the blind user's trying to locate in the world is to the right of them they'll hear the sound in the right headphone or if it's out of the left they'll hear it in the left headphone or if it's in front of them they'll hear it in front of them, behind and behind them - so it's a full 360 degrees audio system and it's kind of hard to relay over the airwaves but you can tell that there's some sonar beeps and these will be in the appropriate position to help the user locate the object. Virtual world. You have reached meeting room three. So now she's reached the meeting room and ... Virtual world. Roland Bridger said: Hi Lola, we are about to have a meeting about accessibility in virtual worlds. White Well I'll tell you what strikes me, Esmond Walsh, if I could create a virtual world I'd want to do something a bit more exciting with it than get to meeting room three. What's the potential for this, what would you get fun out of using this for? Walsh There are cases in virtual worlds where people kind of buy things online, where shops actually have online stores. It is one possible scenario where it can be used. Another one is if there is something broadcast like a lecture, an educational lecture, or even concert or something to [indistinct word], that people can actually attend these things instead of always relying on a sighted person's help to be able to navigate through the world. White And am I right in thinking that the serious use of this is that certain things, quite complex things, maybe like buying a house for example you could sort of do a trial run at? Walsh Yes, there is also the kind of method of being able to explore an area before you actually go into it. If you could take a building or even a city block or whatever and be able to navigate that first you'd have a good general idea of where you're going. White You're obviously at quite an early stage at the moment but when might this be actually a, if you like, a commercial proposition. Clinton Well we're going to use what we have to kind of campaign for more work to be done for this and for standards to be developed for virtual worlds and indeed any other technologies that these methods could apply to. White Well the very best of luck with it, we will watch it with great interest. Esmond Walsh, Antony Clinton thank you both very much. Well with me listening to that is someone we've already met Dr Mike Townsend of the British Computer Association of the Blind. Mike's actually here for a third purpose, and we haven't got to that yet, we'll tell you about that in a minute, but what's your take on virtual worlds Mike because I have to say I still, as you could probably tell from my questioning, I had a bit of problem knowing quite what you get out of it? Townsend Actually I think the really important thing about virtual worlds is that they should be fun and that didn't sound like much fun to me I must admit. But it could be - why not let it loose and let some blind people have a go and then I might be able to drive my car down the road with the wind whistling in my hair. White So that's what you would see - actually trying to do things which in the real world, as it were, it would be highly dangerous for you to do? Townsend Absolutely, that's what I'd like to do, something different. White Ah well to be fair to them they're at their early stages. Now let's come to the reason that you are actually here because our programme next week is to be another in our "blindness for beginners" series, this time on computers, and this business of helping people who are newly blind to get the best out of computers is something which I know your association has been very concerned about and you've actually now got some money to do it haven't you. Townsend Yes, yeah, we've got some - what we call - IT For All Days - and we've been allocated some money from the big lottery fund - Reaching Communities. What we can do is to deliver days all across the United Kingdom, to 600 blind and partially sighted people per year for four years. Now the sort of people we're looking to help are people who've never really started to enjoy the benefits of computing, people who've had a go and given up because it was just too difficult and people who are struggling on and not making it. And the sort of thing we do is task based, so at the start of the day they can do nothing, at the end of the day they're playing CDs and knowing what's on their CD's - that's a big challenge for blind and partially sighted people - they're actually playing Radio 4 on the internet and they're sending messages all around the world and talking to each other. It's a can do, hands on experience. White And how is it going to work, I mean are you - because obviously you're trying to help quite a lot of people at once, so are these going to be classes - because one of the things that certainly totally blind people tend to need in my experience is a lot of one-to-one help? Townsend What we have is a maximum of 12 people per session. We've got computers that they share between two and we've got volunteers who assist them. And so what I do is show them what's possible and say right you're going to do it. And they all have a go at doing it. So it is very much a hands on success sort of day. And it's fun. White And when is it going to start? Townsend Well the first one after the pilots is in Shrewsbury this month. White And what does it cost? Townsend Well it's absolutely free from BCAB. What we would like is if you'd like some of these days where you are get your local voluntary society or library or club to get together, up to 12 blind and partially sighted people, about six volunteers and find a room and we bring everything else for nothing, it's absolutely free. White Dr Mike Townsend thanks very much for popping in. And what we'd like to hear from you, as quickly as possible, are the kinds of questions you'd like our two experts, Leonie Watson and David Halliwell, to deal with for you. It could be about what to buy, how much you have to spend, practical applications of a computer. Whatever your question, get it into us as soon as possible, because this programme is being pre-recorded on Friday. You can call our Actionline with your question, on 0800 044 044 and do, if possible, leave us a phone number so that we can get back to you. And also on our Actionline you can find information about anything in today's programme. Or you can e-mail us via the BBC website. And of course, as you know by now, there'll be a podcast of this programme available tomorrow. From me Peter White, my producer Karen Pirie and the rest of the team, goodbye. Back to top |
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