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Posted by M M (U14200747) on Sunday, 3rd October 2010
I know they bluddy annoy me ! recent pod casts (Few if any accessible to deaf anyway, constantly do recordings of positive things emanating from the 'disabled' community, can we have a CHANGE of emphasis to pod casts that cover "Disability, to how it is a complete pain the bum, and how we wish I had never acquired it..." as a program focus for a change ? We are in danger here of making too light of the real issues disablements crate for sus let us WHINE for a change !!!
Forget wider ramps to the door or even wider doors, or even access to work, but, how we can walk again,and how other disabled get up our nose by suggesting it is fine instead.. .... balance ?
Posted by Wilhemena (U12920282) on Tuesday, 19th October 2010
I am disabled not in chair,need help to get on bus rarely get it, walking slowly with stick being pushed out of way part of my life.
I am lucky I have only been disabled for 7 years since I had Gillian Barrie Syndrome, then my immune system click in with liver disorder. not walking well, not being able to use right hand well, but people are worse than me a club I go to (disable)I sit next to blind man, what a sense of humour, together we have painted, art teacher teaching him, I have persuaded him to go creative writing even though he is illiterate he speaks i write for him as will as my own, we take it in turns. We now have on loan a piece of software that helps him put his feeling down by talking and other people in group that are illiterate to join in
Were there's a will there's a way disabled or ab led bodied, you must fight for want you want and for those who are vulnerable and cant help
themselves. Sorry for the simplicity but that's how I write, I have not missed the point in the sense we have a man who is half deaf and always has trouble with his ear piece because like me he has epilepsy.
Thank for taking the time to read my submission how ever uneducated
Posted by the twitch (U14323742) on Tuesday, 19th October 2010
Do you mean within the 'disabled community' or just public in general (ie disabled and non-disabled)? There's a difficulty finding the balance in how disabled people are presented, as some of us fight for recognition that we are disabled at all while we're also trying to show that actually we're just like everyone else too. Difficult idea for non-disableds to understand, I think.
There may be online support communities relating to your own impairments where you can have a moan and have podcasts about your problems, as these sort of things seem to be grouped rather than the general disabled community like Ouch is. Personally I do like the idea of staying positive, though. If I'm having a low-/no-spoon day where I don't want to listen to people saying it's not so bad because I am living through proof that it is, generally I just won't listen to them. Other times, it cheers me up.
If there are no podcasts available that address the issues you want addressed, how easy would it be for you to start a podcast about other issues? Maybe you could start one if a few people were on board
Posted by M M (U14200747) on Wednesday, 20th October 2010
It is about balance and the 'disabled' omitting the deaf from this via BBC podcasts, and poor if any access. Access issues are universal not deaf-=defined only to be discussed 'somewhere else' I don't think the attitude should be taken to accept that view. If I watch hearing on a TV set there are subtitles, If I watch disabled on podcasts they are not. Time the 'disabled' and deaf got with it.
We're not like everyone else. It's a myth. We are deaf, we are blind, we are otherwise disabled... If we were like everyone else neither you nor I would be here.... I agree deaf are buying in to the greta garbo syndrome as well. The thing about 'positivity' is we do it so much, it is obviously looking like a cover story.....
Posted by RoseRodent (U1896879) on Friday, 22nd October 2010
I'm in two places with this one. For me I wouldn't say that being disabled is a problem, being disabled and living in a disablist world is a problem, the problem is not *mine* it's theirs.
OTOH I can't bear the people who "never consider themselves disabled" and who make an effort to hurl themselves at all obstacles and "not let their disability get in the way". Particularly when those people turn up in 'disabled' places. For example, Missing Top Model was open to all who "identified themselves as disabled" - so what was Kelly doing there when she "doesn't consider herself disabled, never have never will" - so she doesn't meet the entry criteria, which is to consider *yourself* disabled.
There's no point in "not letting my disability get in my way" because it has a habit of doing so. If you turn up at a location with a wheelchair and there is a flight of 35 steps, how is it up to you not to "let it get in your way"? The steps are the obstacle, not my mental attitude! There's a fine line between being positive and denying disability, and many people cross over that line.
Posted by M M (U14200747) on Friday, 22nd October 2010
A fine line constantly exploited sadly, it is right to point out some issues of disablement are painful for us to tolerate day in and day out, and then we might comment it is hard, have a moan (We all do it at some point), to find you then get called names, made objects of fun by fellow disabled. You must be positive,positivity is ALL, erm no it hurts too. Pain isn't positive, physical or mental unless you are a sadist.
Why have psychiatrists or whatever, positivity means you should put up and shut up ? Not such a fine line.
Posted by tishcat (U14708219) on Wednesday, 1st December 2010
As a man who grew up with a hearing impairment, i am only too aware of the problems, and sometimes, heartbreak that come with being deaf.
I wanted more than anything, to hear success stories and see that an enjoyable life was possible. Without that encouragement, i would have been condemned to wallowing in the pointlessness of an existence seemingly going nowhere.
Personally i have been lucky in that i live in an age of technological miracles.
My newish digital aids are a vast improvement on the old ones. There is subtitling on the TV (VERY IMPORTANT TO ME) and of course the internet where i am able to communicate successfully with other deaf people.
Although, it is easy to slag off lip reading and BSL, where is the alternative? Perhaps, in the future, deafness will cease to exist because of medical and technological advances. Until then. Yeah, i plod on trying to make the most of what i have.
Posted by AndyfromCornwall (U14342750) on Thursday, 2nd December 2010
Although, it is easy to slag off lip reading and BSL, where is the alternative?
Let's not misunderstand here. We criticise the way these things are promoted (and yet, not used) but we would defend to the death people's right to use them.
Where I am critical is when people promote ONE or the the OTHER. It isn't like that. Most of the people I went to school with speak, sign and lipread. Many of them do it all at once, so you get crowds of people talking and signing together. It works!
But contrast this with a Telegraph newspaper article earlier this year. It was put together by a professional writer who happens to have gone deaf. But I can almost name the people she has spoken to about deafness. Because the entire piece was about signing Deaf people and not a word was said about anyone else! Certainly, signing Deaf people are an important part of the deaf community but they are very much a minority.
So a newspaper feature that focuses entirely on signing presents a false picture of Deaf people. When hearing people read that they will have the wrong impression of deaf life. They will think that all deaf people need sign and are lost without it. Not very clever!
If all you ever read about America was only about cowboys you might go over there expecting people to be going around in big hats and chaps! It would be a false impression and I think that some people like to give the impression that all deaf people sign.
What I am against is people who carry on as if signing is the be-all and end-all of Deaf life. It isn't. In order to function in a hearing world (and, trust me I don't accept deafness as a barrier) we have to learn to speak and to carry our message over clearly to hearing people who are not really all that interested. This has been my experience.
I have worked in : Greyhound racing, Horse and stable keeping, Dairy farming, the construction industry particularly on the Humber Bridge, also shops, warehouses, factories, garages. A list would be far too long.
I have a degree in IT and experience of running three different businesses and actually I have a diploma in management.
And yet for a lot of that time I have been treated as an inferior, less capable person who needs constant looking after! I find it difficult to get jobs but once I am inside the door (even if it is just floor sweeping) I invariably impress and many times I have had promotions just on the strength of good work.
But being a Deaf person in a hearing world IS problematic. It IS stressful. You DO have to be switched on, brain in gear for every minute of the working day. We work harder at that.
WE DO have to "manage" inexperienced and prejudiced hearing people. You get attacked by the spiteful, sacked by the ignorant and generally spoken to by many as if you are an idiot.I don't see how knowledge and use of sign language is in any way going to alter that. In fact if anything it will act as a flag to bullies.
For all the big talk and the bigging up of sign language, nothing has changed in that respect at all. The last thing any realistic potential employee wants to do is make demands of an employer. So to go in at the interview needing an interpreter and special help is going to put them off right from the start. My policy has always been to go in looking as capable as I possibly can. My CV at its shortest runs to two pages and sometimes employers look at the hearing aids and no further!
I have managed to wangle my way into a few good jobs by sheer chutzpah and a certain amount of luck. Otherwise I would have been sitting about for much of my life wondering what was to become of me. The sad thing is that in forty years the situation has hardly changed at all. That is very disappointing.
That's why I am critical of people who preach over-reliance on sign language as opposed to lipreading and other means of communication. I think people who rely too much on living and working in a signing community are limiting themselves, personally and professionally.
Posted by M M (U14200747) on Thursday, 2nd December 2010
Andy is quite right, the issue is sole promotion of individual modes as the answer. My view stated elsewhere is that neither are effective in isolation and badly taught as well as vying for top communication options, childish to the point of deprivation.
Only the deaf, would use positivity as a way of bullying other deaf who struggle ! I'm all right, why aren't you ? always moaning, get a life etc... It's the real insecurity osy deaf really have, the need is there, it has to be identified to get that need addressed, or what is the point.
You are going to die in 4 minutes, get a grip, boil an egg....? If everything is promoted as not being a problem, then why the hell are we campaigning for help and access, and rights, a hobby is it ? Charity, it's there for fun (OK I concede that it make a good living and provides work for some, mostly hearing but...), depression doesn't exist, let's dispense with psychiatrists and counsellors and medication and tell these people to get a real life instead....
It's as if they are saying if you find things hard then say nothing or they will think we ALL find things hard, and its great to be deaf isn't it ? I don't slag off sign or lip-reading they are just so badly taught, and are failing, we need a new way of doing things.... especially when DEAF people cannot access the basic classes....
Call me picky I find that a real issue....
Posted by tishcat (U14708219) on Thursday, 2nd December 2010
i agree with your sentiments entirely. I could spend all day telling you about prejudice and downright bloodymindedness that i have had to face in my life. And it's not been confined to ignorant hearies either.
Even though i come from a hereditary deaf family, i myself am just seriously HOH and have encountered deaf people taking it out on me that i am a perceived hearie. So, in effect i got it from both sides and felt i had the worst of both.
However, i have to be the change that i want to see in the world ( Ghandi quote, i think) and at least try to improve my own life. i am positive cos otherwise i would fall into serious depression indeed. It's my way of fighting back against the world and if it improves anyone else's life at the same time.Then great.
Yes, deafness is a terrible affliction and people should rightly tell the truth about that. Otherwise there wouldn't be anything availlable at all.
So once again i am sitting ( quite comfortably ) on the fence lol
Posted by M M (U14200747) on Friday, 3rd December 2010
Probably less aggro than being a messenger lol... I don't believe in fence sitting personally.
Posted by tishcat (U14708219) on Friday, 3rd December 2010
Mucho respect to you for banging the drum, as it were.
Do you lobby your MP at all for services to be improved? Do you get involved with any charities and/or pressure groups?
I have a bee in my bonnet at the moment about the importance of research into hearing loss and possible cures and tech. I think these should be a matter of priority for the sake of the 9 million people who are directly affected by hearing loss and the rest of society as well.
We are not a "united" community by any stretch of the immagination simply because, apart from the deafness, we usually have little in common. Better that we at least put aside our differences and try to work constructively towards a better future.
Any suggestions welcome
Posted by AndyfromCornwall (U14342750) on Friday, 3rd December 2010
The fact is that MM has acted as our official "thorn in the side" for quite a few years now. he used to contribute to the Ceefax pages Read Hear.
I feel that rabble rousing of this sort plays an important part in deaf life because too often deaf people are just accepting and allow other people to make decisions on our behalf. The famous "deaf apathy". One of the lesser known virtues of Deafhood.
Yes, it is difficult to get everyone singing from the same hymn sheet but at two points in online history it has almost succeeded, marred only by the failure of the site owners to recognise destructive behaviour by a minority.
It seems to be a characteristic also of Deafhood that deaf people go around attacking (even to physical fisticuffs!) others who disagree with them about the myth of Milan 1880 and all the other nonsense that goes with it. Basically it's a peg on which to hang bullying. With people like this, we don't need enemies.
Next year the RNID are starting up a new forum and I have asked them to make sure that the moderation is properly done by a human being. The site will stand or fall on that issue.
Research issues... yes it is being encouraged via this organisation:
Also the RNID are giving away Bursaries for research students. Not a fortune, but better than a kick in the pants.
Posted by M M (U14200747) on Friday, 3rd December 2010
I've lobbied everything that moves for a few years now, the deaf called me obsessive and a loony on occasion. I've had my personality ridiculed, my blogs spoofed, and poked fun at, been banned from some of the most boring excuses for deaf sites online too (A real plus I found out later).
However as they comment from areas nothing to do with campaigns or lobbying, I usually ignore them mostly. Most sit on their rear ends and applaud others that do the work, charities etc....anyone can do that,be a 'follower' you've done yer bit.
I broke the rule only to point out hearing were to blame. In my view some deaf contribute to their own isolation and lack of access, but I am determined where acquired deaf are involved mainly because I am one and mainly because they are the prime area suffering neglect from both sides. With a few exceptions ALL my critics can still hear, I suppose that could be construed as discrimination but... I'm far too rogue to 'lead' others, and I have an added disability in that I can't work with clique's lol either they are for or against the campaigns I get involved in or they are against me as a person. If one person benefits it is all worthwhile....
It's like all individuals we serve a purpose to raise some issues and prepared to take the flak, we know when the system does start to listen we are expendable too... cest la vie
Posted by stueyyy (U8300187) on Monday, 6th December 2010
I think some like myself and wife need sign Language, I wont fick about wer have drifted apart in my house, 1 she gets fed up writing a lot, and thats understandable...
2 I cant lip read very well, so a simple sentence would take nearly a whole programme thats on tv, she would miss it, or I would...
3 I can finger spell but its very slow process...
I really think maybe up to level 4 or 5 would be enough for me and missus...
Can I get into College, SIMPLE answer past 3 years NO NO NO NO.. And last 1, I was at was all hearing I COULDNT KEEP UP... but I plodded on, but course ended because I ended up in my 2nd home Hospital
I really need sign language for indoors and family, soood EVERYONE ELSE..
Some cases where I think it is needed..
Where I have failed with Implant and so so so many Operations, I cant tell you now Ive had enough.. sod the future I dont want anymore, so in answer to Trishcat Deafness will never become a thing pf the pasy and gone, because there is people out there who dont want hearing.... I DID, but HEY ! HO! IVE HAD ENOUGH.....
I hope people understand where Im coming from...
Once upon a time I worked for many years til I lost my hearing and balance, but 1 thing I wont get is Depressed..I get pIIIssssed off but thats as far as it goes...
I dont misunderstand you Andy, but I do feel some like myself are in need of it..for reasons above...the way my sight is at moment UI would sooner see 5 hands signing, its better that seeing a page of blurrrred type and straining to read at moment anyway. I know my sight will Improve, but going to take time, But I dont want to lip read I dont want to read all the time..You understand where Im coming from?
Yes you are right it wears me right out by end of day being Deaf, and laugh in Asda yesterday, my wife drove us there, I got Sub titled DVD film, as not many on tv..Anyway cashier spoke something, I said Im Deaf, she then started waving her arms about
Trying to describe things, I said I cant sign, she looked bewildered as If I should be signing ffffffss...WHAT A DAY it was pheeew, glad to get home..
Posted by tishcat (U14708219) on Monday, 6th December 2010
i am currently on the look out for a good BSL sign language resource at the moment. I am not a beginner, so don't need lessons on deafiquette or signing from scratch.
What i need is a visual dictionary, that allows me to look up ( and learn ) the signs that i don't know but am likely to use.
When i find a good one STUEYY i will pass on my recommendation to you, cos they are too expensive to just buy one on the off chance.
Posted by AndyfromCornwall (U14342750) on Tuesday, 7th December 2010
Stuey I think you are going the wrong way about learning sign language. If you hang out with Deaf people then you will pick up the every day words much more quickly.
You don't need to learn a lot of sign to get by, if you and your wife were to hang out at a Deaf club for a while I think you would learn more easily than at a college.
There are Deaf clubs at Southampton, Portsmouth and Bournemouth that I know of. College sign language courses are for hearing people who want to get diplomas and stuff. That's not what deaf people need is it? Also it's no good being able to sign if there is nobody around to sign TO!
BSL language resources ... there are several online, I think the BDA would be good people to ask.
Try Bazza "Where the Hell are you?" Deaf.
Posted by stueyyy (U8300187) on Tuesday, 7th December 2010
Tishcat I have PC-CD-ROM called Sign to me....Its all visual and sub titled it has everything..
But 1 does need live people who know sign, you have to be with them to learn it. Ive learnt a fair bit on the CD..but cant put much together in sentences....
NOPE you have to be in the real world with real people to help along this route....
Posted by stueyyy (U8300187) on Tuesday, 7th December 2010
Sadly as you have said in past as did MM...Deaf clubs are fading, portsmouth Arundel street, My wife and me's have been to and sorry to say its nearly dead, A good Saturday night is about 3 or 4 people
I will have to look elsewhere, Southampton is about 3/4 hr drive away, so not bad bad, and Southampton wanted to amalgamate with Portsmouth Deaf Club that I think was turned down, Because Southampton were mostly hard of hearing people and what Portsmouth Deaf club call Not Deaf Yes sad really...
Yes College is for people after diplomas and stuff you are right on that 100%... NO its not what deaf people need at all..
I think Its case of i do it and teach wife.
Deaf just seem to go round and round in circles, well I do and its really pessing me off.
Posted by tishcat (U14708219) on Tuesday, 7th December 2010
Thanks for the recommendations Stueyy.
Having used BSL, I know it's limitations. I mentioned in another post (somewhere) that i had to translate a phone message for my dad.
The message was "due to adverse weather conditions all deliveries are running late". I translated this as "bad-snow-give-late". So my dad got the message, even though the beauty, if you like, of the full message was lost.
Even so i am keen on filling the gaps in my vocabulary to have a greater choice of words i can use in a conversation. Also i tend to veer towards SSE in the sense that i will speak normally and just "subtitle" myself using a mix of BSL and gesture and fingerspelling. Being lazy i tend to fingerspell the initial letter of a difficult word and mouth it clearly, rather than spell the full word.
As for deaf clubs shutting down. This is a great shame at a time when they are really needed. Personally i think that most deaf these days have been cut off from using BSL, for various reasons and genuinely fear the idea of mixing with people who they would find it potentially even more difficult to communicate with.
Posted by M M (U14200747) on Tuesday, 7th December 2010
There is no substitute for real interaction, that is why I have little faith or belief on deaf emigrating online and trying to maintain things that way, as was pointed out you remove the means for learners to hone their sign skills too, but, cultural deaf were always using 'deaf spaces' to keep everyone else out... that is why they are a minority and finding it hard to get access.
Just learn what you can to talk with hearing, as these are the most likely people you are going to come in to contact with, if there was a deaf club every corner it might have a point. I use SE, BSL, lip-reading, body language observations, pencil and paper whatever, if semaphore worked I'd try that too....there is no use painting yourself into a corner communication-wise.
I recall the one and only time I did a vblog and signed the entire thing and with titling I put on too, deaf attacked me left right and centre picking holes in the sign,so I leave 'em to it.... their loss I think in deterring learners, personally I think it ill be a loss to them, we can use alternatives... that WON'T include any sign, thus making it harder for them to socialise outside their little areas.
Deaf space equals dead end.
Posted by tishcat (U14708219) on Tuesday, 7th December 2010
I don't think anybody is being deliberately elitist. There is simply frustration out there at how little things have moved on. Deaf are still struggling with day to day stresses and nothing constructive appears to have been done.
Funding for extra terps/ teachers has to come from government and we should make them aware of that.
Theres no point in arguing amongst ourselves, we need to tell the people in charge that money has to be found. If we don't ask we won't get.
Posted by AndyfromCornwall (U14342750) on Wednesday, 8th December 2010
Although you take the common sense view I'm afraid you are mistaken. There are plenty of people online who regard themselves as the real deaf because they live in signing communities and work in sheltered supported employment.
In fact the history of this forum is littered with nasty arguments from abusive deaf people trying to gain the ascendancy.
I offered my services to a deaf Welsh group, on the basis that I am after all the "neighbours" only to find myself being thrown out and receiving one of the most racist messages I have ever seen.
What really amazed me is that the message came from someone with a Welsh name who is nevertheless not Welsh and doesn't live there. At least I have Welsh ancestry, Welsh rellies and one of my cousins played for Cardiff City!
There is a lot of elitism online and in the past I have been known to comment that some people are "Deafer than thou".
It's all part of them being damaged frustrated people and unfortunately they take it out on anyone daft enough to venture too close.
There is a fair bit of online bullying goes on, this year I have made three complaints to different deaf groups about their bullying of other deaf people. Some groups are merely there to bolster people's yearnings for power. I would advise "caveat emptor" where online deaf forums are concerned, that is just from my own experience..
Posted by M M (U14200747) on Wednesday, 8th December 2010
Worse, some are 'born again' cultural deaf, the very worst kind of deaf people, even when there is NO deaf history with them, and they can still HEAR to a certain extent, a number of British deaf sites provide comments pertaining to music/concerts/spoken events or speech they have heard, etc, not usually a topic profound deaf get immersed in !
No wonder they insist a decibel lost means you are profoundly deaf, even if with aid assistances they hear most things.... it suits their purposes, gets the PIP/DLA and sympathy too...
Without going into 'who is really deaf ?' the fact remains most 'cultural' deaf usually have a profound loss, come from the deaf school backgrounds etc.. It is others wearing the mask of culturalism who aspire to run things their own way, promote the cultural image on their terms...but it IS up to cultural deaf to id these people who pretend to be cultural for the kudos of it and stop supporting them just because they claim to be cultural too...
They must police their own areas or get the negativity these others are generating on them. At least I always provide a clear line where I stand, at the rim..
As far as terps are concerned it isn't going to happen, they will get anywhere near the amount of trained people the deaf need, problems of rubbish tuition, biased assessments, rip-off pricing so learners cannot achieve the appropriate grades needed, downright greedy college courses, and awareness that isn't run by even worse cynics and blustering egos, these things are in reality depriving the deaf, why else are we seeing an explosion of BSL 1 or 2 people acting as terps and mentors and carers ? Even the RNID promotes amateur support instead of professionals for the deaf, because they are nowhere as regards to BSL and the professionalism and high standards that are required as support,and of course the provide a lot of this DIY support too... lowering standards for the deaf is big business.
Bad signers, unqualified people acting as terps (who need stage 4 and beyond), and deaf people texting instead and not using what is there, it's a recipe for nothing at all. Terps need to be brought under stricter control too, a number are overcharging the system to support deaf people, anything between £40 and £300 an hour, ridiculous.
Deaf suddenly became a lucrative gravy train, and the result is the system using terps less, or these part time unqualified BSL1/2 people on the cheap, what price deaf language or culture with these amateurs in place ? Until deaf insist of fully qualified help, and create DEMAND do not expect any support forthcoming that what is there now, and that will be localised to cities, because as terps are free-lance, that's where the money is...
Posted by Walks-in-Shadows (U14315095) on Thursday, 23rd December 2010
Don't you get it? Those disabled people can afford to be positive because they have high paying BBC jobs. I'm so glad that my PS3 digibox cost hardly anything. It won't hurt me to put it away when I have to pay for a TV licence.
Posted by M M (U14200747) on Thursday, 23rd December 2010
Al these jobs at the BBC ? Don't all rush lads ! However, perusing their job site I didn't see any, there were a few for interns, which is a thinly disguised advert for working for min wage or next to nothing, for a few months, then they kick you out again, that's all. Did they turn you down (Have you tried the RNID ?).
Posted by Walks-in-Shadows (U14315095) on Thursday, 23rd December 2010
To clarify, my hearing problems are down to SPD. But even if I was Deaf, I wouldn't work for the RNID, because they don't give a fig about Deaf people.
Posted by M M (U14200747) on Friday, 24th December 2010
And the truth shall set you free You are not going to enjoy their 100 year celebrations then ?
Posted by tishcat (U14708219) on Monday, 27th December 2010
Forgive my ignorance but what is SPD?
Posted by Walks-in-Shadows (U14315095) on Tuesday, 28th December 2010
Sensory Perception Disorder, one the hallmarks of Autistic Spectrum Differences (ASDs).
Posted by Walks-in-Shadows (U14315095) on Wednesday, 29th December 2010
Apologies, Perception should read Processing. GEEZ, I hate not being able to edit my posts!
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