Ouch! Parentspermalink
ASPIE GIRLS
-
Hi All
This new posting also connects with an earlier one 'Aspergers and Mental Health Issues" were I discussed A and her extreme negativity - Please bear with me
I want to try and gain an insight into the behaviours of AS girls.
Does anyone out there know any AS girls? Whilst my sons AS and his emotions are almost text book (Ta Tony A!). A's is so much more internal and complex (if thats possible). I want to know if the following is particular to AS females:-
Extremely Low self esteem
Possessive of one particular friend - (trying to control their behaviour)
Self loathing
Self-involved
Catastrophic thinking
She does have other typical AS behaviours but we find these main ones to be exhausting, we are drained every day with her extreme negativity there is no joy with her, although she says she is happy - its hard to tell. CAMHS told us she has no mental health issues only AS so we are trying to get her assessed by a private clinical psy to hopefully help.
I would love to get some feedback about AS girls behaviours/emotions and ways forward?
Love Always
Foobabe xx -
my son has aspergers and so does a little girl that he knows (they are both 10) and there are many similarities between them
This is a reply to this message.
-
It's interesting foobabe, normally most Aspies I know are males, but I have seen the occasional female.
I think however it's the same as any ASD; it's a spectrum so it's bound to be different for each individual.This is a reply to this message.
-
Thats the thing - its more prevalent in males so finding stuff about it is limited (Aspergers and Girls - Tony A). When diagnosed we were told that girls are only diagnosed much later in life, she was picked up because her twin has it and her social skills are non existent.
S doesn't have the same emotional issues she does, in fact sometimes its like walking on egg shells so as not to upset her - for example at dinner last night I put the wrong plate in front of her and she went off on one and frequently in school when she is asked to do something she dislikes too she rants saying she is a dunce and the unluckiest girl in the world - so self deprecating! Its exhausting and relentless it's starting to effect my mental health.This is a reply to this message.
-
Hi i have a friend Who has Aspergers and the way we work is if she feel frustrated we'd leave the situation and talk it out i often remind her of social cues and how and why situation happens it may be that the girl you are talking about just needs clarity and explanations as to why as social cues are difficult to understand and maybe she has too high expectations some times as it.s hard to see other persons view just be clear about the hows and whys in a tact ful way
This is a reply to this message.
-
There was an article in the Daily Express yesterday, 'The Autism Gender Gap' which said that because girls exhibit autistic tendencies differently from boys they are less likely to be diagnosed. It also gives a brief description of one case. Unfortunately this article does not appear to be available from their web site.
However the article references a book 'Girls Growing up on the Autism Spectrum' by Dr Shana Nichols (Jessica Kingsley Publishers) which may be of help. It also references the National Autistic Society (www.autism.org.uk) which you are probably aware of.
This is a reply to this message.
-
Thanks for the reference OT - I checked this book out on amazon and it looks like a vey recent publication - I have ordered it today - hopefully it will prove helpful!
In the differences I see between the twins it could almost be two separate conditions - There could be ten AS kids in a room and they are all different (but the same - I am making sense?
) But then it is a spectrum so pick your spot
FoobabeThis is a reply to this message.
-
Hey Folks
Well, we have finally got another appointment with CHAMS for A.
The private psy we saw told us she could start a programme of psychotherapy (CBT?) which would be long term. However it is very costly and outside our health trust so we approached our GP for another referral to CAHMS (in April) and are finally going to be seen, again!. A's negativity has got no better and she has surpassed herself speaking of wanting to kill her self - as you can imagine we are distracted. School says she is very bright but rude and anti-authority (not at home though). I hope this is something that will improve with age - Question: Does Theory Of Mind improve as aspie kids get older??
Any way, I hope CAHMS will now offer a preventative therapy programme before she develops a serious problem.
Wish us luck
Foobabe x
This is a reply to this message.
-
I don't know if it is any help but there is a very famous Texan woman with autism (I suspect if she were diagnosed now she might get the AS label, but she was diagnosed a long time ago).
Her name is Temple Grandin, if you google her you will probably find some of her own work (she's a psychologist who specialises in the behaviour of herd animals) and she has published at least some autobiographical stuff. there is a book she wrote about her childhood, it's called "Emergence - labelled autistic" which might give you a bit of insight into what it is like for a girl.
There is also an interesting description of meeting Temple and describing her in Oliver Sacks' book called "An anthropologist on Mars" - it is a collection of chapters about different people, Temple's chapter is the one that gave his book it's title. It's fascinating.
The other thing to remember is that your daughter is probably getting all the normal teenage hormone stuff - remember how you felt? low self esteem and so on is not all that unusual in teen girls - though it needs keeping an eye on!
If she seems willing to engage, and would like to have something to help with the negative thought cycle you described in her rant, she might benefit from some CBT (cognitive behaviour therapy ) which is NOT like old fashioned anlaysis, it's about teaching people some new coping strategies, especially ones for dealing with negative thoughts (see other threads on CBT).
If it gets really difficult, there are a very few psychotherapsists who are trainined in both Asperger's and psychotherapy - it might be worth seeing if she can see one.
Best wishes, Deb
This is a reply to this message.
-
If it is long term therapy that is unlikely to be CBT. CBT nearly always short term - for example 1 hour per week for 12 weeks is typical.
This is a reply to this message.
-
Does theory of mind improve as kids get older?
It's difficult to tell - but at least some people manage to learn strategies which help them to cope better in social situations. It may just be that they gradually get used to a wider range of social situations, but there are sometimes signs that they have learned to work out how others think / feel -- though not by the "automatic" methods the rest of us use.
I did notice that many people with Asperger's Syndrome do cope really really well at University - as long as they get the right support for at least the first term or two, whilst they adjust to the new environment. I think they appreciate the intellectual stimulation and the greater freedom to create your own structure. Many of our students with AS found having a mentor helpful - someone to ehlp with academic work queries but also someone to ask about some of the puzzling social stuff too.
Maybe it might help your daughter to focus on the future a bit? It's possible some of her distress results from worrying about it. If she is academically able and interested, you could go to some of the University open days which will be starting this term so she starts to see there are opportunities after school?
i know the talk about suicide is worrying, and certainly you should not ignore it, but it doesn't always lead anywhere - my son had a spell of saying such things as ateenager. He was a bit goth for a while and sometimes moody / hormonal but he DID grow out of that, now a well adjusted 28 year old doing well.
best wishes, Deb
Best wishesThis is a reply to this message.
-
Dear Devine63 (Deb)
Thank you for your advice. You obviously have a great deal of understanding of AS and all your comments and suggestions are really useful and very welcome and I will definitely be following them up. A had AS and S has AS and ADHD sometimes you worry so much about the future you fail to see the possibilities.
Thank you so much
Foobabe x
This is a reply to this message.
-
Hi Foobabe
you are most welcome, anytime!
Bets wishes, DebThis is a reply to this message.
-
GGRRR
I don't know whether I am coming or going!
CAMHS told us that A has no mental health issues and that ASD services in the school need to understand her more and put in place strategies for her to cope. Now ASD have come back and said her problems are more than aspergers and are behavioural and that its up to CAMHS to do more. So confused, surely aspergers and the whole behaviour thing go hand in hand? She can sometimes get very angry and threatens to hurt herself/others but doesn't follow through and calms down very quickly, it very rarely happens at home as school is the main catalyst for her outbursts. What can CAMHS be expected to do if it's not mental health?? What is the difference between aspergers and behavioural issues?
Yours confusingly
Foobabe
This is a reply to this message.
-
Hi Foobabe
Our daughter is 7 and diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome and Pathological Demand Avoidance Syndrome (see this link www.nas.org.uk/nas/j... earlier this year earlier this year after many years of horrendous tantrums and unfathomable problems. We were also told that there was nothing that could be offered to stop her really low self esteem ("I'm so stupid, you all hate me, I'm leaving home, I don't want to leave hear any more, you're all so stupid e.t.c) and harming herself - she hits herself, bangs her heard on chairs, screams kicks the stairs, slams doors - how she hasn't seriously her herself really badly we don't know. When in fact she is extremely popular at school and has a better social life than us, does very well academically, has recently received distinctions in tap and ballet and is working towards her 3rd gymnastics award!!!!
She also leaves notes at night saying how awful she feels such as I am sad, nobody likes me, I am so stupid e.t.c. Unlike your daughter we get all the bad behaviour at home - she holds it together all day and just blows up at us at home all the time - she is ten times better in the school holidays and by the night before she goes back to school she changes into a different, angry, belligerent little girl - it's horrible.
We have repeatedly asked for interventions to help her as, like you, we feel this is damaging her mental health. She is apparently too young for CBT and other interventions and to be honest I feel her ability to learn from these may be limited. After being on a recent parents course I have found that she can be seen by the Conduct Disorders Team at a famous London Hospital that deals with adult and child mental health and is luckily close to our home. They are willing to see her and us together but this team is not part of her usual neurodevelopmental team , communication team or communication team and they are not Aspergers Specific but will see any child facing these kind of problems - but I only found out about it by chance. it appears that everyone is hiding behind semantics and wanting someone else to sort it out.
Have you had a professional meeting where her paediatricians, communications team SALT e.t.c. all come to the school and you all a have a meeting so you can all decide what needs tackling together and come up with a strategy that everyone is working towards home and school. We had one recently and it has made a big difference to our daughter as it helped the school understand and realise that they did have a duty to help and helped them have strategies from the professionals as I don't know about you but they never listen to us. Her communication team paediatrician did an observation at school and she was able to show the school where the problems were occurring and suggest some strategies for coping.Even after a few days of some simple strategies she is much calmer.
It is so difficult though having as AS girl as they don't fit the traditional profile that schools are used to dealing with and the subtleness of their needs it's a constant battle.
I don't know if any of that has helped!This is a reply to this message.
-
Hi Cupcakekitten1971
Thank you - Your post has been very helpful and informative!
I agree, girl's with AS are totally different from the boys, their problems seem to be much more complex. CAMHS have told us its all AS and that the school need to have better understanding of the triggers. I would still prefer anger management and therapy for her self esteem and it doesn't look like CAMHS can provide it. They have offered to speak to the school and give them some advice so we will see if that helps. We have been using ABA and it did help but we were told we need to be more specific and less abstract and general e.g. instead of a target behaviour of "don't call people names" we should say "Don't call people hurtful names such as (insert your choice here)"
You poor thing, you really do have your work cut out for you. We used to get all the notes too but that all stopped so maybe getting older and more mature helps?. I hope that things improve for you all
Aspie Girls Unite!
Take care
Love
Foobabe xThis is a reply to this message.
-
I have a few thoughts ....
do you have a sympathetic GP? Go talk to him / her, maybe s/he could write to both the school and the CAMHS and ask them to develop a SHARED view of your daughter's situation - at the moment they are each passing the buck between them and as a result you and your daughter are not getting the best out of either of them.
In some areas there are NHS child psychiatry services who will undertake a full assessment of a child in this kind of situation - again the GP is the start point as s/he should be the referrer (the GP could take the view that a second opinion is needed and refer).
The other possibility is for you to write a letter to both the CAMHS and your daughter's school and tell them that you are fed up with being pushed to and fro between them and will they please agree to hold a joint case conference, involving you parents as well as class teacher and anyone else who is directly involved, so you can all jointly agree how to proceed. If you haven't already done so, make sure everyone sees beforehand a short report from you describing ALL of the behaviours and other matters which are giving you concern.
Depending on the age of your daughter: there is a centre Southampton which will make detailed assessments of any person aged over 18 years who may have an ASD. Their team includes a psychiatrist and psychologist and so on. The person needs to be referred by their GP, but that can be from anywhere in the country. the website with information on this is
http://www.adrc.co.uk/ and you will see from that the assessment is free to the client as the cost is paid via the NHS.
Best wishes, Deb
This is a reply to this message.
-
Hi,my daughter is now nine,and was diagnosed with Aspergers about a year ago,as was I.She too has low self-esteem,and I think that from the point of view of somebody with the condition,low self-esteem develops because of other people`s attitudes,for instance from teachers,childminders,whoever they come into contact with,in their formative years they learn that they are different,and their problems are often not acknowledged or dealt with.For girls,who are programmed to be more sociable,fitting in is very important and so an internal comflict develops.It was heartbreaking to see my daughter punch herself in the face and pull her hair out.Things have improved lately,as her diagnosis means that she gets more understanding and also she is more able to rationalise her own feelings.A good or bad teacher can make all the difference between utter misery for the whole family or a relatively smooth lfe,but there`s the fundamental problem for Aspies-other people! The best people for an Aspie child to have around is a parent.Nobody else has the profound understanding and endless patience to deal with them,and the other problem they will probably internalise-the sheer loneliness of the condition. I hope I`ve been of some help,and good luck!
This is a reply to this message.
-
I'm a woman with Asperger's, and that sounds quite a lot like me as a child and a teenager - and even now to some extent.
My negative thinking drives my partner up the wall, though like your daughter, it doesn't make me particularly unhappy. In find it helpful to vocalise 'worst case scenarios' - they lose their power once they are on the outside.
Similarly with the self-loathing. I hate myself momentarily, and express that idea, and that enables me to move on from it.
If your daughter says she is happy despite those things, you perhaps don't need to do anything about them - they are probably more distressing for you than for her.
I was hideously possessive and controlling of one 'best friend' throughout my whole childhood and well into my twenties. I still have to watch that I don't get possessive over my partner. That is something which I think does need to be dealt with - I would have benefitted from seeing a therapist or someone about that as a child. I have no particular suggestions though - I eventually (mostly) got over it on my own.
Good luck with it all. It's good you got a diagnosis fairly early - I wasn't diagnosed until adulthood, and that made growing up very difficult for me.This is a reply to this message.
-
annwick;
how did you get a diagnosis? I am a 23 year old female, the more I find out about AS/HFA, the more it sounds like me. I did the AQ test online, and scored 46/50, but I am having trouble getting a diagnosis cos I have never told anyone, and it wasn't looked into when I was a kid because I had lots of other problems! I am trying to get a diagnosis because I feel very lonely, and a diagnosis might help me get support, I have no idea how to make friends, I have never had a friend in my life.This is a reply to this message.
Live community panel
Vote
Vote
Disabled people aren't political enough.
-
Agree
(65.1%) -
Disagree
(34.9%)
Total votes: 725
This is not a representative poll and the figures do not purport to represent public opinion as a whole on this issue
© MMX