Disability Q&Apermalink
Air flight
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I was excited to be going to Australia for Christmas now I 'm depressed.In May this year I booked a flight and paid fully through a travel agent with Royal Brunei. Both agent and airline I have used before albeit when I was fully able and 10 years ago.
I cannot ignore the fact that I am now wheelchair bound (MS) so have always made my requirements clear from the start for this trip. Getting to the airplane not a problem in my wheelchair. I also requested a seat near toilets and an on board wheelchair to get me there. Back in May not a problem. In September not a problem the travel agent assured me that t he request has been acknowledged. Not to leave anything to chance I emailed the agent yesterday to check arrangements. PROBLEM The airline will not provide an on board wheelchair. I dont know what to do. The agent says she will try to get out of any cancellation fees. So what I still need a flight to Oz. nad the cost will be double again at this short notice. Any one have any experince or suggestions what I can do? -
First advice, stop using the agent.
Secondly, they may have a small (narrow) chair on the aircraft for you to transfer to and from. But you must talk to the airline directly.
And email them. And get a name, and log your call etc, so they cant deny it.
It may be that the agent gave them the idea that you wished to use your own chair on the plane, but actually no-one can do this as the aisles are too narrow.
I have travelled to Oz several times, the last one being a nightmare, but not the fault of the crew, just Heathrow and BA ground staff denying they knew anything about my disability. (They did.)
What you need to do is speak to the airport AND the airline, and make sure they pass this information on to EVERY airport that you go to.
If you are flying via Singapore they are very good there regarding disabilities.
Heathrow are dire. You have to literally beat them up to get a response.
Normally disabled passengers are grouped together in the seats near the toilets.
Please check with the airline, as it may be incorrect information you are being given.This is a reply to this message.
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Hi I could be wrong but there was a court ruling I think someone had a similar problem. It was with ryan air I think and there was a successful case in Newcastle with someone who wanted seats near the toilet but they couldn't have them but it went in favour of the disabled as the court ruled it was a reasonable adjustment.
I'll try and look it up for you. Hope I can find it I am going back four years I think.
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If you contact the following person at this website address he might be able to help you.
www.wheelchairsteve.com
He was the one I think that won the case against the airlines. He might just have the answer for youThis is a reply to this message.
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Thanks for your help . I will confirm help at Brunei airport where Im changing aircraft.
I have checked that all were aware I wanted an on board wheelchair not my own. It has now been confirmed that they cannot supply help on board.
The agent isnt small its Austravel and now want me to book other flights at a further £400 pp!This is a reply to this message.
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Thanks so much will let you know how I get on
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The usually hostile supine unhelpful bunch at ECHR do, oddly, have some stuff on their site giving Commissioner rulings on various air travel incidents since EC1107/06.
(At extreme, could you hire an aisle chair and turn up with the thing? I have seen some extremely fold up and light)
If you read that before you ring the un-help line, you may get past their habitual brush offThis is a reply to this message.
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If I can find my posts about the problems I had last year it gives the ruling broadgrin mentions and some people have given some other stuff too.
Problem is, the rules of equality of treatment, i.e. being able to go to the loo, are based on the countries rules somewhat.
So whilst they are governed by access requirements here they are not once they are in the air !
I'll have a look at what I can find, though a quick look at the airline site stated that they will carry powerchairs as luggage, but it seems they dont seem that keen on wheelchair users as passengers.
Quantas and BA have small wheelchairs on their flights for passengers who cannot manage even a small distance on crutches. I know, I've used one.
I'll try and find the advice other people gave last year when I had my nightmare.This is a reply to this message.
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the rules are for eu airports and airlines and for other carriers flying in and out of eu airports, so you should be covered. ( get incontinence pants too, as belt n braces policy?)
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It may be that the airline is saying they DO have an on-board aisle wheelchair but they will not provide any help, for instance, with transferring or getting to the toilet. That is the usual situation.
Do you actually need help with transferring? If all you will need to get to the toilet and on/off the plane will be the aisle chair and someone to push it you need to let them know that.
Usually it is the airport ground staff who get you on and off the plane and transferred to your seat. I was very surprised when I flew with Virgin from Heathrow recently to find that it was Virgin staff who did this and were very helpful. They were also very helpful with getting to the loo, although my PA did most things. But it really varies airline to airline. Best experience ever has been with KLM.This is a reply to this message.
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I'd really, really, really chase this up with the airline before giving up and forking out more money.
Not sure about where you stand with a travel agent who has badly advised you and cost you money.
Could you contact ABTA and ask them?
If you have to pay more because the agent didn't do their job properly then surely you are not responsible, the agent is.
We cant be financially penalised for being disabled, which eventually this is what it amounts to, under the DDA. And as the flight leaves from here, and you live here, and Austravel (I am sure) have an office here, then the rules apply here !
What happens at the other end is according to other countries rules regarding disability, but in my experience, most other countries airports are much more disability aware than Heathrow.
(M word, my hatred of Heathrow is becoming more and more apparent every post I type
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But I haven't heard of an airline that didn't have an on-board aisle chair...What would they do if there was a medical emergency? Levitate the person?
If by some chance the airline doesn't have an on-board chair, then ask why. The days of restricting access to anything because it requires a small additional amount of effort should be long gone
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>> The usually hostile supine unhelpful bunch at ECHR do, oddly, have some stuff on their site giving Commissioner rulings on various air travel incidents since EC1107/06. <<
This? www.equalityhumanrig...
Couple of very interesting cases there regarding people needing extra leg room.
Mactiggles: The magic words are "EC 1107/2006 - rights of disabled persons and persons with reduced mobility when travelling by air" This is European law and applies to all flights taking off from or landing anywhere in the EU, whatever the nationality of the airline.
Look at this page for the EHRC's guidance to the law:
www.equalityhumanrig...
Assistance in moving to the toilet if required is explicitly stated as an airline responsibility in Annex II of (EC) 1107/2006 and they are required to provide that aid by Article 10.
You need to complain to both the airline and your travel agent that they are in breach of EU Law and that you will be taking the matter further unless they provide immediate assurance that the assistance they are required to provide by law will be in place. I would also ring the EHRC helpline on 0845 604 6610 to get them on board and to see what advice they offer.This is a reply to this message.
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This posting has been hidden during moderation because it broke the House Rules in some way.
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Great, my posting citing the link to EC 1107/2006 has been removed. Presumably because it was a PDF, but if the laws protecting us are only available as PDFs, how are we supposed to reference them?
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Mactiggle: The BBC are being obstructive, but you can still access the text of (EC) 1107/2006 for yourself. Just type "ec 1107/2006" into a google search, the first reference that appears is to EUR-Lex, this is the EU's electronic equivalent of Hansard with full text of all EU law, making the Beeb's rejection of the link all the more ridiculous.
If you click that first link, then you'll get a PDF of the law, which is admirably concise and understandable and nicely sized for waving in people's faces. Annex II is the very last page.This is a reply to this message.
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Hey,
I use a chair and fly a lot because of my job. I also hate heathrow!
The airlines are obliged to take you and consider your disabilities and they have to have an aisle chair on board. You should phone the head office of the airline you are flying with and talk to them about it. I had a problem with BA seating a little while back and one phonecall sorted it out. They'd put me in a seat that wasn't suitable for me and wouldn't over ride it because it was the system being "helpful" but when I phoned up, I could go through everything I needed on board, including aisle chairs etc.
How mobile are you? I know this often gets worse on planes - I am completely stuck like a star fish with swollen joints at the end of a long haul.
The one thing they do not have to cover is to assist passengers getting to the toilets, with personal needs or with personal care, which I think is fair, as the air hostesses are not trained carers and most people would not embark on a 24 hour journey alone if they knew they would need help everytime they went to the toilet.
However, they will sometimes help you with the aisle chair if you can transfer yourself. You can normally get them to help you with bags, possessions, sticks etc so they help me get up, will walk with me if I need it and remove obstacles and hold the toilet door for me if I'm struggling. If my legs have locked straight, they will often hold a blanket or something up so I can use the loo without shutting the door as the cubicles are very small. Not ideal, but better than the alternative.
Also, and beware that they are not obliged to do this at all, they have sometimes been nice and taken me to the upper class cabin if it is not too far if that is easier for me.
are you flying on your own? what support will you need?
I never let the agency sort it out for me - things get lost in translation along the way. Do as Hossy suggests and phone the airline first, sort that one out, and then phone the assitance numbers for all the airports you are going through.
have you flown before with your chair?
I flew with American Airlines recently and it was as Pink Lady said the air crew that used the aisle chair with me. I often fly with BA and their crews are generally lovely. Your luggage goes elsewhere but they are nice to you. Lufthansa were great, BMI were great. KLM were rubbish with me and I will never fly Ryanair again. I hope you get it sorted soon.This is a reply to this message.
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Interesting may try this Ta
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Great I now feel more confident Im feel more like fighting
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>> The one thing they do not have to cover is to assist passengers getting to the toilets, with personal needs or with personal care <<
Personal care, no, but (EC) 1107/2006 states:
"ANNEX II
Assistance by air carriers
[snip]
Assistance in moving to toilet facilities if required.
"This is a reply to this message.
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You as the a disabled person can book a seat near the toilet. A case was highlighted on our local radio station where someone needed to be close to the toilet because of his needs.
The airline refused to do this and a case was brought against them and the disabled person won and got compensated.
The person had help from The Newcastle Law Centre.who dealt in disability.
I am going back three years now.This is a reply to this message.
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