Disability Q&Apermalink
"Alternative" Pain relief - Open minded people only please
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I only put the message in the title to ensure that I did not cause offence to anyone. I feel that I should state clearly here that I do not want to know about any illegal activity (self incrimination) and would not encourge to break the law. (Good ol' Gordie knows whats best for us all)
Lets get the main one out of the way - Medicinal Marijuana :O Has anyone been perscribed this? Can it even be perscribed in the UK? Its been said that cannabis is an exelent general pain killer, partularly neuropathic pain (not particularly opiate response unless at stupidy high levels - which I'm sure you have already guessed is what I have.)
If you believe the conspiracies the government is reluctant to allow cannabis as a whole to be given as a pain reliever as it cannot be branded and tradmarked; because, well it's just a plant. Giving cheap to grow un-trademarkable painkillers to the masses would dent the profits of the pharma companies and they would cut of the PMs balls (or something like that). As I say That was a conspiracy theory that I heard and I'm not neccesarily saying all or even any truth in it at all. However as the great philosopher Mr E. said "there's truth in everything, there's truth in lies, with all this knowledge I think I'm gonna be wise"
With this in mind..... (what am I saying?)Anyway, with this in mind what about the medicines made from synthetic cannabiniods or medicinal cannabis derivitives? (for example; Dronabinol (Marinol), Nabilone (Cesamet), Sativex, Rimonabant, Levonantradol (Nantrodolum) and I'm sure there are loads more.
It may sound like I already know a fair bit, but dont let the lengthy list of drug names fool you - The names are the only thing I know about them! I dont know if all of them are for pain, I'm sure I heard about one being used as an appetite stimulant (munchies I guess) and even one being used as a appetite supressant?? That doesnt sound right.
Anyway I'd really like to know if they can be perscribed in this country (I honestly don't know where to look to find that out) It would make my day if anyone has any sucess stories with any of these drugs in the treatment of neuropathic pain.
Ok on to the less (or possibly not) controversial ones!
Devils claw - reccomeded by holland and barret. I bought some of this on ebay from a pretty reputable looking source (I suppose if I said who it was exactly that would count as me trying to advertise for them? Any way I've been taking it for a while (approx 1.5 months) and I'm not sure if its doing anything. Supposedly it is actually scienifically proven to relieve pain.
Another "alternative" that may be useful is Kratom. I do know a little about Kratom, as far as I know its mainly used as a recreational drug, but it has several mechanisms that are similar to opiates and there have been sporadic tales of it being very good at reliveing pain (no idea what type, google "kratom pain relief"). Can anyone confirm or deny its usefulness.
I can think of one or two others but I think they cross from the grey area legally into pretty much black :S
One last one that I have used myself is Aloe vera juice, yes it may say its for cleaning out your colon, but it contains natural anti-inflamatories (supposedly). I think it made a difference, not drastic though, which makes me suspect it may well have been a placebo!? Any ideas?
I do not sell any of the substances mentioned! -
The British National Formulary is the standard reference manual for what can and cannot be prescribed "in the community" i.e. things that doctors can give you on a standard prescription form to take home and pick up from the pharmacy. It isn't quite comprehensive because things that are prescribed on different forms don't come under this book, so thigns like catheters, needles, oxygen for example. But in terms of drugs this is where to look. You have to sign up, and though I could go and look these things up I really would recommend signing up and getting to know your way around this reference book. www.bnf.org/bnf/bnf/...
The patent consipracy theory doesn't hold a lot of water for me because they are not thinking of releasing plant or resin marajuana on a medical basis as the dose is uncontrolled between different plant types and cross-breeds. The removal of the bit that makes you 'stoned' and control of the dose from the plants is a patentable process if the right person has made the right applications.
I don't quite get why they are so OTT about cannibis. It's demonstrated as a quality pain reliever. It has side-effects: what doesn't? Like those of us taking shed-loads of morph aren't getting any side-effects, like people aren't already jealous of how amazingly high they think we are getting. They just get their knickers in a twist about anything that is new, as it's easier to keep things the same than change them because your decisions are not second-guessed or examined to anything like the same degree. In fact, it's a compulsory part of the parliamentary debate process here in Scotland, not sure how it works in Westminster.This is a reply to this message.
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I am aware that Sativex is prescribed in the UK.
Have you tried changing your current neuropathic meds though? Becase upping pain killers, even morphine, does not work for neuropathic pain, no matter how much you throw at it.
The only meds which work for neuropathinc pain are meds like Gabapentine.
Perhaps you need to do some research on the net to find out if Sativex etc., works for neuropathic pain before asking your GP for a script. If you can print off any research that says that Sativex would help and take it along to your appointment, that might persuade your GP to give you a script.
Alternatively, have you ever asked for a Pain Clinic appointment? The Consultants at the Pain Clinic are far more clued up than GPs about what works best for different conditions.This is a reply to this message.
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Theendperson,
You talk about the what, but not the why. Pain comes in lots of different forms, and there are lots of different treatments. The choice of what works for you depends heavily on why you need pain control.
When someone says alternative pain relief I usually presume that they mean non-drug based, c.f. acupuncture, pacing, and meditation.This is a reply to this message.
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When I said to my EDS consultant that pain relief wasn't really working, and were there any alternatives, he asked if I'd tried cannabis. Of course he made clear that he wasn't recommending it (how could he!) but he did say that he'd heard it helped quite a lot of people.
I have a friend with fibromyalgia who benefits from it.
Personally I haven't been able to obtain any, and I am also reluctant to do so as you don't know what you're getting with something illegal - e.g. strength - and I really want something I can take and then carry on with my work or go shopping, not something that will make me unsafe to drive or knock me out. Even with alcohol you at least know how much you are getting; it's clearly written on the bottle.
I also need something that's easy to take; I have asthma so smoking is really not something I want to do.
I didn't know that Sativex was available in the UK, that's interesting! Wikipedia suggests it helps with neuropathic pain. Maybe next time I see my consultant I should ask him about that.
If anyone takes it, do let me know, and the results!This is a reply to this message.
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Last time we had this discussion two people either had taken it or currently were taking it. (sativex)
Nothing new about it, I think that discussion was about 18 months ago, if not more.
I heard or read somewhere that peopel tried it but preferred cannabis. Well if you want to gamble with your brain cells, feel free ! But best not to ask 'why me?' when you develop MH problems, else someone might just tell you
I think for as many people as it helps, quite a few of them just like getting stoned.
And if getting stoned and being relaxed eases your pain, then fine.
But it is a dangerous path for those people who are susceptible for whatever reason to MH problems.
Its also a daft thing to do if you need to drive, sign forms or do anything fairly important. Like cross a road.
Like alcohol, it needs to be taken when you are in the right environment.
Sanitex may help, as may devils claw, or rose hips, or positive thinking, or yoga, or a million and one 'might helps', but caution with all things untested in clinical trials.
St. Johns Wort was hailed as marvellous but shouldn't be taken with SSRI's, and can have unexpected side effects when taken with the contraceptive pill, can cause hypersensitisation and blisters etc.
I think sometimes NICE are a bit slow, and sometimes NICE are not nice at all.
But at least the drugs have been trialled, and the side effects listed.
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I've been tempted to try cannabis for the fibro pain but I am so unstable mentally I suspect it wouldn't be a good idea plus I don't want to break the law or encourage anyone else to do so.
Alcohol used to help but I react badly to it if I have more than a couple of sips these days so it's a sober life for me.This is a reply to this message.
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I'd never heard before that cannabis is supposed to help with neuropathic pain. I'd only heard of it being used to relieve spasms in impairments like CP and MS.
That'd explain why the joint I smoked at a party once on a day when my sinuses were bad (3 years ago now) provided amazing relief. Apparently the nerves in my sinuses were damaged by all my other sinus problems (and I really do have almost every sinus condition in existence) being untreated for so long. Pregabalin does *nothing* for my sinuses despite being really quite good for the bone and joint pain in my legs.
Wish I'd learned this before Monday when I got discharged from the pain clinic
.I haven't got a hope in hell of my GP prescribing Sativex.This is a reply to this message.
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There's some recently published research (in an American journal called Scientific American, if you google for it you should at least get an overview of the article) discussing how chronic pain (especially when it is what people think is "neuropathic") may not actually be true neuropathic pain, but may have to do with these other cells called that are supposed to help kinda control nerve responses. It discussed why cannabis and some other non-traditional pain drugs work better and don't create the tolerance level of opiates. And it discussed why opiate tolerance happens in relation to these cells.
Sorry for being so vague, but my brain isn't awake and I can't find where I put my copy of the article! (Once I have I'm going to scan it in and anyone who wants to e-mail me for a copy, feel free to google my username for my blog and send me a message - will probably happen some time this week)This is a reply to this message.
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Would Sativex get you stoned/high. If it does there is no way my GP give me it. He is already dropped me from tramadol to tramacet because he thinks I'm using it to get high (I guess its because I'm 22).
I probably should have given more info - Both a Consultant and a Pain Specialist have both diagnosed the pain I am in as neropathic pain. I am already on gabapentin and amitriptiline.
Has anyone used dextromethorphan? Studies have shown that although its not much use as a pain killer in itself it can both potentiate opiates and reduce the induction of dependance.This is a reply to this message.
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@WheeledTraveler
(Once I have I'm going to scan it in and anyone who wants to e-mail me for a copy, feel free to google my username for my blog and send me a message
Can you Email it to me? As we're friends on Facebook you can get my Email address from my info page on there.
@theendperson
I am already on gabapentin and amitriptiline.
Tried Pregabalin? It's a newer (and thus supposedly better) version of gabapentin.This is a reply to this message.
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Would Sativex get you stoned/high
No.
It retains the alleged pain killing effects but has none of the chemicals to get you high.This is a reply to this message.
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They don't perscibe cannabis because of several reasons:
1. There's no way to control the dose.
2. It's as bad as cigarettes when smoked, the nhs doesn't perscribe cigarettes either.
3. It can have a negative impact on mental health and increase the risk of mental illness being developed. Since many people with long term pain also suffer from depression? It's not a good idea to give them something which might make them even more depressed.
4. They still don't know how everything works in it.
5. It's psychologically addictive.
6. It affects some people badly, for every 1,000 who get mellow? One person gets violent. I've known two such people.
7. The long term side effects are not yet known.
I'd suggest if you're looking into alternative pain remedies that you look to:
1. Acupuncture. (I had this once, the pain in my neck vanished)
2. TENS.
3. Heat therapy.
4. Reiki.
There's lots of alternate therapies that are legal and do work.This is a reply to this message.
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Agreed, cannabis is unpredictable. What people say is a strong spliff has little effect on me but my husband has had one drag and passed out (very frightening actually!)
Perhaps it has little effect on me because it's too busy relieving my pain for any to be left over to make me high, in the same way that morphine does if you need it.
The other issue is how you take it. I've had hash brownies that did nothing for an hour then suddenly hit me (which meant that I thought The Cure were the funniest band ever). If you smoke it, how much do you ingest? Smoking technique comes into it (as does lung cancer...)
This is why I have no interest in cannabis, but legal cannabinoid drugs would be very much of interest.This is a reply to this message.
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Hello Wheelartist, How very astute and precise, very clear information to the deal of and about Alternative/Cannabis as a Nurse,I could,nt have put it any clearer in words. .
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Good post, Wheelartist.
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The other issue is how you take it. I've had hash brownies that did nothing for an hour then suddenly hit me (which meant that I thought The Cure were the funniest band ever).
I remember once getting stoned in San Francisco and thinking that orange juice (the beverage, not Edwyn Collins's band) was the funniest thing ever.This is a reply to this message.
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i can tell ppl wiothout shadow of doubt canabis helps with back pain
i smoked some of a joint and my pain completely went away
i dont just mean, pain killer, its more bearable now, i mean it COPLETELY went away
prof said it will come soon
until then, u needs to goto americas, get a dodgy doctor an open ended anual script
goto vendor, get as much as u want
or find dogy dave down dunsville estateThis is a reply to this message.
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Rob-
Good to hear that you are backpain freeThis is a reply to this message.
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...I thought The Cure were the funniest band ever
Just how much did you take FFS
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