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Failed ESA medical!
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I had a medical for ESA a couple of months ago and today received a letter to say I had only achieved 6 points and had failed.
The six points were for not being able to walk for more than 200 metres without stopping or discomfort.
I achieved no points at all for my mental health problem even though I have received MRC/LRM for the past 7 years and have an indefinate award.
The doctor has blatently not recorded the answers I gave him - I specifically remember telling him I did not leave the house without someone with me due to anxiety attacks.
I have been receiving treatment for depression for over 20 years and recently been diagnosed with a muscle disease and a doctor who has never met me before can assess my life in 20 minutes - I don't think so!
He even asked me why I had depression!
It's amazing how the letters always seem to arrive on a weekend so you can't even ring them for answers.
First thing Monday I am lodging an appeal.
Has anyone else appealed against an ESA refusal?
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We have very little information about ESA procedures because it is so new.
We do know quite a bit about doctors who don't carry out their medicals in a proper manner. In general the doctor is being asked to do a medical examination and report on your physical and mental condition. The doctor is NOT being asked to make a recommendation as to your suitability for benefit. Someone else makes that decision.
So you have grounds for appeal on the basis that the examination was not carried out in an accurate manner. We hear quite often of doctors who have decided off their own bat whether their patients should get benefit or not. It is not their decision and it should be challenged.This is a reply to this message.
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Thanks for your reply.
I just can't believe that the doctor completely ignored everything I told him about how my mental health problems affect my daily life.
I don't suppose these interviews are recorded?
I feel so sick and anxious knowing I will have to appeal. I am still sat here unwashed and in my nightclothes, can't eat, no energy and shaking...all because of this letter - If only the doctor could see me now!
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If you are feeling really awful it may be an idea to contact either NHS direct or you GPs out of hours service.. this may both help you now because you sound very upset AND provide a further record of your anxety problems .
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I know what you mean but like a lot of people with depression it is easier to do nothing.
I tend to stay at home, sleeping loads and only eating what doesn't have to be cooked when I feel ill.
My GP only sees me when I am feeling a little better and can actually manage to leave the house and like lots of people on Ouch I feel embarrassed to explain how bad things get.
I am on medication which remains the same regardles of how good or bad I feel so I have never seen the need to tell my GP how bad things are at times - obviously this does not then get recorded on my file, which with hindsight would help my case.
There is still so much stigma attached to mental health problems that it is easier to stay at home and ignore family and friends, telephone, mail etc than ask for help - I thinks lots of us do this.
I will make an appointment to see my doctor next week and tell her how bad I feel and see if I have her support to appeal this decision.This is a reply to this message.
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if the daily mail is anything to go by,
of the 200,000 assessed by ESA so far, 5 out of 6 "fail"This is a reply to this message.
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Have a look at the Benefits and Work site, Google for it. They have all sorts of new information coming in about benefits and I am sure I have read something there about how to deal with ESA medicals.
I sympathise with how upset and depressed you must feel but I think this is a battle you can win if you can keep at it.
Also you might like to ask your CAB for help as they have special benefits advice people.This is a reply to this message.
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I had a look at that site and found some information and a sample letter to send in an appeal.
I have been sat at the computer all afternoon and prompted by my husband to sort out and fill in the appeal form today as the longer I leave things the more scary they become to me!
I am told that another decision maker reviews the form and can overturn the original decision or send it to a tribunal so with this in mind and after looking at the questions and scores that they give I have written the following as my decision to appeal:
I wish to appeal against the decision that I do not have limited capability for work. I consider that I provided enough evidence for a finding to be made that I do have limited capability for work.
I do not consider that the decision maker took full account of the severity of my conditions (both physical and mental health) or of the way it affects my everyday activities and bodily functions.
The questionnaire was completed when I was in hospital, in a great deal of pain and under the influence of strong painkillers, however I put my trust in the medical assessment to qualify the severity and effect of my conditions.
I specifically recall explaining to the doctor that I was unable to walk more than a few (less than 50) yards without experiencing severe discomfort,(I suffer with extreme muscle weakness and severe cramps/spasms which although this was originally diagnosed as Peripheral Neuropathy it has since been proven to be a muscle disease which is under further investigation), yet have only been awarded 6 points and stated as being capable of walking 200 metres – I believe my answer has been inaccurately recorded.
No points have been awarded for the effect my severe depression has on my everyday life despite explaining that this is a problem that I have had for over 20 years and have received medication all that time, at least five courses of counselling, sexual abuse specialist counselling and all this is well documented on my medical history, including a suicide attempt requiring hospitalisation.
I explained that I was indefinitely awarded the middle rate care component of DLA and low rate mobility purely for the mental health problems I suffer and this has enabled me to have a carer who prompts me to get up, wash or bathe, get dressed, eat and motivates me otherwise I would stay in bed all day, not wash or eat or function in any social situation.
I also explained that without assistance I rarely leave the house due to extreme anxiety attacks, confusion and now the added mobility problem due to the muscle disease, do not answer the phone or door, pay bills or reply to letters – I do not believe this has been accurately recorded.
I cannot cope with change to my routine and have problems meeting and mixing with new people and going to new places and I cannot finish daily jobs without taking longer than a person who has no form of mental disablement - I believe my answers to these questions were recorded inaccurately.
The above examples are just part of the details of my grounds for appeal but until I have been provided with a full copy of all the papers and had the chance to seek independent support and advice I am unable to provide further details and can then produce letters of support from my GP, specialist consultant neurologist, carer and family and friends.
Does this sound ok or does it sound like I am accusing the doctor of lying/misrepresentation?
Your thoughts gratefully received.This is a reply to this message.
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hello mrs m, i had my medical on the 27th june, both me and my wife told the nurse who i saw about all my problems, i had been diaganosed diabetes type 1 with 4 insulin injections per day, serve
depression, and cronic fatigue syndrome, she gave me no points whatsoever, i don't go to the appeal until early december which is a long time to wait from having the medical, i have everything in place to support my claim including letters from all my doctors and family because they know how unwell i am, if you take today for instance i couldn't get out of bed until 5.15pm, i applied for dla and within 14 days i was turned down because they used the result of the medical i had so i appealed against that and in less than three weeks they reversed the decision.
It's very true what you say though that these so called health pros don't listen, or should i say don't want to listen, they have been told to do this according to my doctor who knows a number of these people personally, this is so that when they turn people down a number will not appeal thus saving the government money.
many thanks
john.This is a reply to this message.
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I'm starting to wonder if anyone ever "passes" the ATOS medical. Certainly, every account of an ATOS medical I have read in my entire life (several hundred by now) shows a medical conducted by someone who either A) ignored everything that was said or B) just plain lied.
The fact is, the medical system wasn't designed to assess your capability for work. They already know that you're incapable of work, that's why your doctor signed you off and why you're on ESA in the first place. The medical system is designed purely to find some way of denying you benefit, even if that means ATOS lying through their collective teeth. The system starts off with the presumption that your own doctor is a liar and you're not really incapable of work at all and then designs a system to support that conclusion. It's the ultimate example of conclusion-led research. Since ATOS is fully aware that they will be lying on their reports, they have rules in place about recording interviews far more onerous than the rules the police use to discourage you from being able to prove their lies.
Add to that, doctors are as susceptable to brainwashing as anyone else and the press (led by the Daily Heil) has been running an outright hate campaign against ESA claimants for over a year now. And add the fact that politicians universally approach disability benefits not from the wrong direction. To a man, their approach is and has always been "We must get benefit numbers down", not "we must get people healthy". The simple fact that there are some people who are simply incapable of work is anathema to both the press and politicians.
I suffer from a severe mental illness (which makes me doubly hated as I have to cope with the stigma of that as well) which often leads me to carve big holes in my body. I have my ATOS medical in a few days and have already assembled the paperwork for teh appeal in the sure and certain knowledge that it will be claimed that I am entirely fit for work.
As for the appeal, I have limited experiance based on having to appeal a claim my other half made for something (I've forgotten which benefit but it was one for a temporary disability she had) several years ago. I'm afraid that my experiance has been that you might as well flip a coin. They're just as bad for ignoring evidence and assuming you're lying. Occasionally, you get a good panel who actually listen and evaluate but in the majority of cases, their minds will be made up, probably against you, before you even enter the room.This is a reply to this message.
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I have just had a thought. Did you see the blue smoke?
No, seriously. I can't hear so this is not a lot of good to me but ... it is possible to use a mobile phone as a portable recorder.
We have already seen instances of mobiles being used to catch policemen up to no good by videoing them, it occurs to me that interviews could be recorded as evidence.
Yes, I do know that it is not evidence that will stand up in court. However that does not mean there is no use for it at all. If played back and it showed the report to be fabricated then an investigation would surely follow. Heads would roll.
What is more any examinations in future would be conducted knowing that the interview might be recorded and so they would be more careful to be accurate.This is a reply to this message.
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This system is so wrong!
My initial reaction was to leave it and do without any money (my claim is contributions based) but then I got angry and decided I am not going to let the doctor lie - which he blatently has.
I am seeking advice today but don't know whether to try DIAL or CAB?
My advice to people going for the medical would be to take someone with you who sits and note your answers (perfectly reasonable if you have poor concentration) - and have a good luck at the criteria you have to score points on before the medical.
Also beware of the way they try to trip you up by asking about how long you can sit or concentrate then asking what tv programmes you watch or what kind of books you read.
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"Recent government figures showed huge numbers being turned down for disability payments.
Under the new system just 5% of people applying were given the full allowance after the tests." Daily Mirror 19/10/09
I suggest you go to CAB as they have larger legal department.This is a reply to this message.
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I have just discovered that CAB have a drop in clinic at my local library today, which apart from my doctors is the only other place I dare venture out alone to, so I am going to go along and see if they can help.
Another flawed goverment discision and from the outcry it seems to be up there with the poll tax and CSA!This is a reply to this message.
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Difference is, we are struggling to make this a hoo-ha.
No one will take this on, apart from us, who can do little becaue we are (wait for it...) TOO ILL to argue.This is a reply to this message.
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Have you considered joining benefits and work? Its a site that charges about £18.55 to join for a year, and you can download one of their booklets to help you to appeal.
www.benefitsandwork....
I hasten to add, other help is available and I have no association with their site, and neither I or the BBC endorse their product.This is a reply to this message.
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I will try to dig out a link to some info I posted a few weeks/months ago (I lose track lol) but the specific problems of ESA tests for those with a mental health component to their disability are now very well known and steps are in hand to try to address this.
Doesn't help a lot in the short term for those caught up in the mess that is the benefits and decisions and appeals fiasco known as the DWP i know, but sometimes just knowing one is not alone and that others are in the same boat helps a little.
The key thing to take hold off is that the reason you have a problems is because the system is wrong and not because you don't meet the criteria it's them not you at fault here.
And as per the other ESA thread running right now those of us that can are working to make sure this injustice and unfairness is stopped as soon as possible and hopefully a fairer and more appropriate system be put in place as a matter of urgency.This is a reply to this message.
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I agree entirely! We are easy targets.
I think one of the main problems we will have fighting this is the fact that many people have mental health problems and if they are anything like myself I try to keep them private - I hate people judging me and am almost embarrassed to admit I need help.
When I am ill I stay at home, take no calls, answer no letters and lack motivation to get out of bed etc - just like many others I imagine. When I am feeling better all people see is the 'well' me.
Any hassle totally exhausts me and with a physical illness as well life gets hard.
However, we have to fight this and give each other strength and advice.This is a reply to this message.
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Various people have suggested using mobile phones and similar things to record the interview. ATOS's official criteria is that you may not record anything unless you have professional equipment, using dual decks, calibrated by a professional sound engineer directly before the exam (as said, this is more exacting than the police use) and if they notice you using any other form of recording device, they will stop the interview (and, unofficially, mark you down as refusing to cooperate).
I'm afraid there would be no inquiry. Numerous people have caught ATOS lying on their assessments. All that happens is that ATOS ask the doctor whether he lied, the doctor says "no" (he's hardly going to suddenly feel compelled to be honest) and that's it, claimant assumed to be lying.
There's no political mileage in sticking up for us. We're mostly too ill to stick up for ourselves and defending us gets our votes but alienates the votes of a big chunk of the populace who have been trained to hate us.This is a reply to this message.
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MrsM, you're entirely normal in that regard. I think most of us with mental health problems try to keep quiet about them. Either because we're aware of how uncomfortable we make people or because we're frightened of the stigma that mental illness has.
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