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do the most disabled deserve to be poor?

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Messages: 1 - 20 of 84
  • Message 1. 

    Posted by Rob (U6912717) on Monday, 14th September 2009

    I am not talking about people with jobs, people with relatives and friends who give money

    I am talking about the solo person, who is so disabled they can not work, they dont have a partner and are 100% relyiant on benefits.


    Do we deserve to live poor? clubbing together helps immensly. 2 people with DLA living together adds up, bulk buy offers etc, heating costs etc


    but 1 person, is forced to be poor and have few things in life. They are unable to work, unless they comit fraud on ebay, they are doomed to be poor forever.

    After the costs for extra heating, microwave meals, extra power use, tv, internet, phone, insurance etc have gone out, they have next to nothing.

    I was only able to get my PC parts for Core i7 because my parents lent me half the money and I paid half with the DLA i had got. My DLA falls a coupla days after my incap and is, but has caused me to rearrange a couple of DD's

    If i not have a family, or a family with money in anycase, then I would now be without computer, or at best, a crappy one that you see in librarys.

    I do not understand why the most disabled of people do not get an extra suplement for "being unable to work"

    because if you are on High DLA and "able to work" you get back in tax credits what you lose in Incap/IS and the wages too

    So really, work or no work, the benefits are the same, but obviously your taking home a pay cheque if working

    So why should those who are unable be forced to live so poor if they are single.

    this is especially so for those with severe MH problems, because, frankly people dont want to live with you. Who really wants to live with someone who is either so high, they do your head in, so low you have to suicide watch them, they blow all their money another time, chronic emptyness another time etcetc

    its not like its a swollen ankle that doesn't make the person at extremes of 10 different emotions in a half hour.

    My own sister with husband climbed out window the 1 time she stayed over here in middle of night, because of my sleep walking and shouting (in sleep).

    I just dispear that I might always be poor.

    I am not saying I dont have enough to exist on, far from it, I exist and have a couple of decent possessions, but that is it. I would class, for this country as poor.

    I couldn't afford a holiday, cooker, or anything like that. I only taste middle class life when I visit my parents. I get picked up and dropped off. Sometimes i feel a dissapointment.

    You know when you know they are paying tax, which pays your benefits, but then again they have paid for the dinner your eating and the petrol to transport you.

    then i have to borrow money for a thousand things

    it really makes me feel burden, and I would feel less so if I got more money, so instead of just existing, I could pay for a bit more, and borrow a bit less.

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  • Message 2

    , in reply to this message.

    Posted by Lisy (U1824334) on Monday, 14th September 2009

    this is especially so for those with severe MH problems, because, frankly people dont want to live with you. 

    Right, because cripples are regarded as so sexy. It's not like 60% of people surveyed said they'd never touch someone with an obvious physical "disability" with a barge pole, and probably an additional 20% wouldn't, but wouldn't admit it to a bloke from Gallop with a clipboard either.

    Also in your sweeping "mentals have it so much harder than physicals" statement you're forgetting the fortunes we have to spend on overpriced equipment like wheelchairs because what the government offers is not enough, if they offer anything at all.

    I'm not really trying to claim that overall life as a physical is so much tougher than life as a mental, but just imagine if you had all those costs you've listed like ready meals and bills and then you had to buy a wheelchair and portable ramps and grabbers and bath seats *as well*...

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  • Message 3

    , in reply to this message.

    Posted by Chris_Page (U557481) on Tuesday, 15th September 2009

    No-one deserves to be poor.

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  • Message 4

    , in reply to this message.

    Posted by hossylass (U3749845) on Tuesday, 15th September 2009

    No-one deserves to be poor, but being poor is relative.

    I dont have a tv, not because I cant affrord one, but by choice.
    Oddly most people assume I cant afford one.
    But if I did have a tv then the price of the tv licence would displace something else.

    If every one started off with the same amount of money, then give it ten years and some would be richer than others.
    They might have got lucky with investments, be savvy about saving, or just have sat at home eating cold beans from the can in the dark for ten years and saved all their money.

    It starts to get complicated when you try to assign financial values to quality of life.
    Having a poor quality of life and low finances is the real bummer. And that is part of the message about DLA, it is to attempt to improve the quality of life, not give parity in a financial sense.

    Living alone is more expensive, but for me it improves the quality of my life.
    My first priority is to pay the bills.
    My second is to be as happy as I can be.
    And after being homeless for years, I now can wake up and count my blessings.(Obviously doesn't take long !)

    People with disabilities dont deserve to be poor any more than they deserve to be disabled, but the two things, for many reasons seem to go hand in hand.
    Glass ceilings abound, disabilities restrict our earning potentials, and increase our expenditure.

    And finally, poor people stay poor, as described by Terry Pratchetts theory of boots. smiley - winkeye

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  • Message 5

    , in reply to this message.

    Posted by GentleJack (U2502511) on Tuesday, 15th September 2009

    "No-one deserves to be poor"

    to play devils advocate.... why do you deserve to be rich?

    90% (or whatever the number is) of the worlds population may describe you as rich....given that you arent starving, have a roof over your head, and have access to clean water and washing facilities, and bed to sleep on, and live in a relative secure society.

    as i said, i am playing devils advocate but it is interesting to reverse the question...

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  • Message 6

    , in reply to this message.

    Posted by batsgirl (U4263247) on Tuesday, 15th September 2009

    I just looked up the Core i7 you mentioned.

    Even with generous relatives paying half (which rather negates your opening statement of "I am not talking about people with jobs, people with relatives and friends who give money") that's quite a lot of money.

    There is no definition of "poor" I can think of where that kind of money is lying around to be spent on computer parts. A whole computer, possibly.

    Disabled people *do* get extra money in recognition of the fact that it is more difficult, or perhaps impossible, for them to find work that they can do. That's what the £20 - £30 per week difference between basic JSA and long-term IB/ESA is about, not to mention the IS Disability Premium.

    And are you honestly saying that when I go to work, do something productive, work my backside off, come home exhausted... I don't have a right to be financially rewarded for my efforts, to be better off than I was on benefit? It's not like my paycheque just appears from nowhere on top of my DLA - I put in a lot of effort, most days of the week, most weeks of the year - I EARN it.

    You have a right to enough money to meet your basic needs and give you a basic quality of life. There are many people whose needs are such that the benefits they get do not cover even the most basic needs, they are unacceptably "poor". However, since you're able to buy luxury goods like computer components, you are a long, long way from any definition of "poor" that I would agree with.

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  • Message 7

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    Posted by hossylass (U3749845) on Tuesday, 15th September 2009

    I did nerly comment on deserving to be rich, or well off, or above the poverty line, or below it, or living with no running water or sanitation or heating as I did for years, but thought "Nah, it will only derail the thread."

    Glad I can sleep at night without worrying how my property and share portfolio is. smiley - winkeye

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  • Message 8

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    Posted by pinkcarys (U13641140) on Tuesday, 15th September 2009

    Poverty is relative. We feel poor compared to my OH's best friend who works for Porsche. We feel rich compared to my best friend who is a single mother and disabled.

    I think quality of life is so much more important than money to us, demonstrated by the fact that I've just quit work. Working has been making me exhausted and in pain and I constantly put off or cancel activities or friends. That's no life to live so I've quit in order to have my own tuition business.

    Money doesn't buy happiness, but poverty doesn't either! No one deserves to struggle the way my friend or other disabled people do but it isn't about fairness. If the world worked that way we'd all be living a very different life.

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  • Message 9

    , in reply to this message.

    Posted by OSC09 (U13900165) on Tuesday, 15th September 2009



    Disabled people *do* get extra money in recognition of the fact that it is more difficult, or perhaps impossible, for them to find work that they can do.  


    Sorry, I think this is a dangerous and ill informed statement, Batsgirl.

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  • Message 10

    , in reply to this message.

    Posted by wattdallas (U14033546) on Tuesday, 15th September 2009

    Rob id agree that the most disabled that cannot ever work shouls have a bit more financially .
    But when i say the most disabled i mean those who cant do anything ie cant talk ,or walk ,cannot feed themselves ,cant change themselves etc.

    They are the most disabled persons

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  • Message 11

    , in reply to this message.

    Posted by Tim (U1822396) on Tuesday, 15th September 2009

    "No-one deserves to be poor"

    to play devils advocate.... why do you deserve to be rich? 


    Horrible logic.

    Saying that nobody deserves to be poor is not the same thing as saying that you deserve to be rich. That's a 'back and white' argument that pretends that there are only two possibilities when in fact there are more.

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  • Message 12

    , in reply to this message.

    Posted by Tim (U1822396) on Tuesday, 15th September 2009

    Rob id agree that the most disabled that cannot ever work shouls have a bit more financially .
    But when i say the most disabled i mean those who cant do anything ie cant talk ,or walk ,cannot feed themselves ,cant change themselves etc.

    They are the most disabled persons 


    In your book, people would have to be legally dead and dismembered before they qualified for disability benefit. The rest should be booted i' the workhouse to choose between going down t'pit for tuppence an hour or up n'chimney for 3 bob a day.

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  • Message 13

    , in reply to this message.

    Posted by crustycrip (U1820557) on Tuesday, 15th September 2009

    'In your book, people would have to be legally dead and dismembered before they qualified for disability benefit. '

    Sir William Wallace?

    pete

    Report message13

  • Message 14

    , in reply to this message.

    Posted by GentleJack (U2502511) on Tuesday, 15th September 2009

    It isnt horrible logic...and BTW i am not saying people do deserve to be poor or that people deserve to be rich.

    What i was hinting at is if you think about the reasons why you dont (and do) deserve to be poor but also think about why you deserve (and not) to be rich then by exploring the answers to all those questions may enlighten you to a more rounded answer.

    Also, it may answer the question which i think we are all skirting around is, what is the minimum acceptable standard of living in this country (for dis or not)?

    Report message14

  • Message 15

    , in reply to this message.

    Posted by kaiser soze (U9606683) on Tuesday, 15th September 2009

    <<Horrible logic..

    Not really. If you want to play devils advocate its perfect.

    Report message15

  • Message 16

    , in reply to this message.

    Posted by Ironic John (U13895591) on Tuesday, 15th September 2009

    On a bad day I can tick all your boxes or more exactly someone can tick all your boxes for me so even by your criterea I am a deserving case cheers Wattdallas. I am vindicated.

    regards

    John.

    Report message16

  • Message 17

    , in reply to this message.

    Posted by OSC09 (U13900165) on Tuesday, 15th September 2009

    But when i say the most disabled i mean those who cant do anything ie cant talk ,or walk ,cannot feed themselves ,cant change themselves etc.  

    Anyone who talks out their backsides should have their assets frozen...

    Report message17

  • Message 18

    , in reply to this message.

    Posted by Lisy (U1824334) on Tuesday, 15th September 2009

    No-one deserves to be poor. 

    I'm not entirely convinced by that. For instance conmen who con fortunes out of innocent people deserve to be poor. A lot of bankers getting fortunes in bonuses actually deserve to be poor.

    Report message18

  • Message 19

    , in reply to this message.

    Posted by batsgirl (U4263247) on Tuesday, 15th September 2009

    Sorry, I think this is a dangerous and ill informed statement, Batsgirl. 
    I apologise for my misinformation. I had been under the impression that basic Jobseeker's Allowance was about £60-odd and long-term IB was about £85, for a difference of somewhere between £20 and £30.

    My understanding was that:
    - DLA is money supposed to cover the additional costs of being disabled (although we all know for many people it does not).
    - the extra money that makes the difference between basic JSA and long-term IB was supposed to cover the effects of longer-term benefits dependency in terms of living costs (such as having to replace clothing and appliances as they wear out over time) since your average IB claimant can't simply choose to apply for every job in the paper in order to boost their income.

    I certainly don't want to pose a *danger* to anyone, so I would appreciate it if you could correct me, to prevent me making such terribly hazardous statements in future.

    Report message19

  • Message 20

    , in reply to this message.

    Posted by NuttySurvivor (U2017168) on Tuesday, 15th September 2009

    I suppose I'm lucky because I get the works where benefits are concerned. They pay for my basic costs and my extra costs.

    After the costs for extra heating, microwave meals, extra power use, tv, internet, phone, insurance etc have gone out, they have next to nothing. 

    I'm curious about a couple of things on this list. Unless you have a wheelchair or other assistive equipment, why would your insurance be higher? Surely if you're at home all day not out at work, you will find your insurance cheaper?

    Also, surely your TV, internet and phone cost the same whether you're disabled or not? People on JSA don't pay any less for their telephone licence or internet and phone.

    Report message20

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