Households 'worse off' in benefit reform says Bevan Foundation boss
17 February 2014 Last updated at 08:14 GMT
Aberconwy Conservative MP Guto Bebb and Dr Victoria Winkler, director of independent think-tank the Bevan Foundation, share their views on claims by a Welsh government report that the nation's economy is losing £930m every year because of welfare reform.
Mr Bebb described the report as political posturing while Dr Winkler said households were a "great deal worse off" under the reforms.
They were speaking with Oliver Hides on BBC Radio Wales.