Party funding: Patrick McLoughlin and Angela Eagle
14 July 2013 Last updated at 14:49 BST
Political parties "need to widen the base" of their support but cannot "turn to the taxpayer" and expect state funding, said Conservative Patrick McLoughlin.
Labour's Angela Eagle said her party "wants to give politics back to the people" as the pair debated how parties should collect money, after they watched a Sunday Politics film on the headlines of the last fortnight.
And she challenged the transport secretary: "You clean up your funding, we are cleaning up ours".